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Old 08-09-2013, 10:33 PM   #661
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Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
OIC. The thing that scares me is dying of old age using the HDUI to clear the items I want out of my Recently Deleted folder. I use it like some use the Recycle Bin on their computers. I often put things in there I want to keep, unless I absolutely need the space, or might change my mind about watching something. I've deleted whole series, then when I ran out of things I felt like watching, I dug them out, easily, since I cleared the things I DID already watch, out. Digging them out is much faster with SDUI as well...

Please (to all) let's not start the usual bickering over why anybody cares about the RD folder. All that matters is some users do. It's already been stated that some don't.
I use kmttg for that. Easy-peasy.
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Old 08-09-2013, 11:47 PM   #662
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Just curious but with a 4 tuner TiVo and one mini if your recording on 3 Tuners and you have one free and the mini is watching live TV does that mean I can't watch on the 4 tuner TiVo? How would the 4 tuner TiVo know if the anyone is watching on the Mini and how would dynamic tuner make a difference?

Thanks.
I assume the Mini, if not on the home screen, is taking up a tuner. If you want to free it up you probably have to close LiveTV. I would imagine it's a more direct feedback way to do it then how a normal Tivo works.
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Old 08-10-2013, 12:03 AM   #663
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OIC. The thing that scares me is dying of old age using the HDUI to clear the items I want out of my Recently Deleted folder. I use it like some use the Recycle Bin on their computers. I often put things in there I want to keep, unless I absolutely need the space, or might change my mind about watching something...............................
People use the recycle bin in a PC for things they want to keep???

I never heard of that before.

The recycle bin on a PC is trash. I wouldn't put papers I want to keep in a trash can. Why would someone put the digital versions of paper in the digital version of a trash can on a PC?

I don't recall ever running into anyone that did that.
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Old 08-10-2013, 12:50 AM   #664
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People use the recycle bin in a PC for things they want to keep???

I never heard of that before.

The recycle bin on a PC is trash. I wouldn't put papers I want to keep in a trash can. Why would someone put the digital versions of paper in the digital version of a trash can on a PC?

I don't recall ever running into anyone that did that.
Why do you think it's called "RECYCLE BIN", and not "TRASH CAN", then?

I worked in IS/IT for over 15 years. I used to get yelled at when I'd clear out people's recycle bin on their work computers during maintenance, for the very reason that I used for my analogy. I NEVER said I did it, just OTHER PEOPLE.

I asked for the bickering not to start... Congrats! You win #1 "Just couldn't resist a cloaked effort to start a fight" award.
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Old 08-10-2013, 01:11 AM   #665
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There is really no reason to do that. TiVo will automatically delete the recording with the oldest expiration date if it needs the space. If you want to preserve something older the. You can just use the Keep Until option and it will move up the expiration date so that the newer recordings, with the older expiration date, are deleted first.

Or better yet just get an eSATA hard drive and double your space then don't worry about it at all.
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Old 08-10-2013, 01:15 AM   #666
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Just curious but with a 4 tuner TiVo and one mini if your recording on 3 Tuners and you have one free and the mini is watching live TV does that mean I can't watch on the 4 tuner TiVo? How would the 4 tuner TiVo know if the anyone is watching on the Mini and how would dynamic tuner make a difference?

Thanks.
No one really knows for sure, but I'm guessing that first off you'll only be able to steal a max of 3 tuners on the 4 tuner unit so there will always be at least one available to the host. If that tuner happens to be recording you can still watch it, but if you attempt to change the channel it'll warn you that the recording will be canceled. I assume any tuners taken by a Mini will simply be unavailable to the host. You wont even be able to select them via the UI or switch to them via the live TV button until they are released by the Mini.

The host TiVo should be able to prompt the Mini user if it needs the tuner for recording. I assume if the user answers no then it will simply cancel the recording. Although it's possible it might ask all Minis, or maybe all Minis in order, depending on how much time it needs to make the decision based on scheduling priorities.
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Old 08-10-2013, 01:52 AM   #667
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There is really no reason to do that. TiVo will automatically delete the recording with the oldest expiration date if it needs the space. If you want to preserve something older the. You can just use the Keep Until option and it will move up the expiration date so that the newer recordings, with the older expiration date, are deleted first.

Or better yet just get an eSATA hard drive and double your space then don't worry about it at all.
Dan, if you saw the way I use my TiVos, you'd understand. Most, like about 85% or more, of my recordings are set up to keep until I delete, in the SPM. I have my reasons. YMMV, and it all depends on how you use your TiVo. I know you've seen this subject come up in multiple threads, from multiple people. People who like to "manage" their RD folder get pounced on. The reasons for managing it, and making it more of a utility, than an otherwise useless folder, are many. Some just like to keep it empty, and would even like the option to just empty it with one command, just like a computer Recycle Bin (mostly for privacy reasons, like in a shared dwelling, or family setting, where the TiVos are on one account, and allow sharing of content, or even just one TiVo used by many people). TiVo gave us the ability to dig things out of other TiVo's RD folders. I like that. It does make me consider what I leave in those I use, though.

I see the same people doing the pouncing, and it only is proof that they've seen the pros and cons, and just can't help but pounce anyway.

Same people arguing over the same things every chance they get:
RD folder
Standby Mode
Padding recordings
The clip overlapping recordings option
OTA versus Cable & how many tuners each should have
Whether or not OTA is even worth keeping support for
Blanket statements about any, or all, of the above (which are inaccurate)
...and so much more...

One particular user, always inserts themselves into threads about problems, or software updates, always saying they never have any problems, or not whatever one is being discussed. If somebody questions them on it, then it becomes that they may have experienced some problems, but they were minor, and not enough to be a real issue (for them, anyway).

I may not have joined 8 or 12 years ago. But, that doesn't mean I haven't been a long-time TiVo user, and long time forum lurker. I only joined when nobody else was asking a question that I needed an answer for.

I don't have a time machine, I'm already here, so I'll be around until I either abandon TiVo, this forum becomes entirely useless, or I get kicked-out.

So as to not be accused of passive-aggressive thread drifting, I will leave this fire to burn itself out (or will try to, provided I'm not provoked). It won't be long until some other debate takes precedence. Hopefully it will be a useful one...
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Old 08-10-2013, 04:05 AM   #668
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Whatever, it's your right to use your TiVo however you want. I just wanted to make you're aware of how the recordings are chosen for deletion. The rules TiVo uses for these things aren't always clear to all users.
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Old 08-10-2013, 05:22 AM   #669
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These units wont do analog at all, so you'll need to stick with the 2 tuner Premiere or at least keep one around until you have access to pure digital. I'm in the same boat. My cable company still has about 35 channels that are analog only. Until they at least start to simulcast I'm stuck keeping a 2 tuner Premiere around for recording those stations.
Any chance that the mini will work with a 2 tuner tivo once the dynamic tuner allocation is in place ?
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Old 08-10-2013, 06:40 AM   #670
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Dan, if you saw the way I use my TiVos, you'd understand. Most, like about 85% or more, of my recordings are set up to keep until I delete, in the SPM. I have my reasons. YMMV, and it all depends on how you use your TiVo. I know you've seen this subject come up in multiple threads, from multiple people. People who like to "manage" their RD folder get pounced on. The reasons for managing it, and making it more of a utility, than an otherwise useless folder, are many. Some just like to keep it empty, and would even like the option to just empty it with one command, just like a computer Recycle Bin (mostly for privacy reasons, like in a shared dwelling, or family setting, where the TiVos are on one account, and allow sharing of content, or even just one TiVo used by many people). TiVo gave us the ability to dig things out of other TiVo's RD folders. I like that. It does make me consider what I leave in those I use, though.

I see the same people doing the pouncing, and it only is proof that they've seen the pros and cons, and just can't help but pounce anyway.

Same people arguing over the same things every chance they get:
RD folder
Standby Mode
Padding recordings
The clip overlapping recordings option
OTA versus Cable & how many tuners each should have
Whether or not OTA is even worth keeping support for
Blanket statements about any, or all, of the above (which are inaccurate)
...and so much more...

One particular user, always inserts themselves into threads about problems, or software updates, always saying they never have any problems, or not whatever one is being discussed. If somebody questions them on it, then it becomes that they may have experienced some problems, but they were minor, and not enough to be a real issue (for them, anyway).

I may not have joined 8 or 12 years ago. But, that doesn't mean I haven't been a long-time TiVo user, and long time forum lurker. I only joined when nobody else was asking a question that I needed an answer for.

I don't have a time machine, I'm already here, so I'll be around until I either abandon TiVo, this forum becomes entirely useless, or I get kicked-out.

So as to not be accused of passive-aggressive thread drifting, I will leave this fire to burn itself out (or will try to, provided I'm not provoked). It won't be long until some other debate takes precedence. Hopefully it will be a useful one...
Sorry but I will have to disagree with you. Most of the things you posted were actually designed to give the user choices. However intentionally using a recycle or trash bin for storage is not the same. It is intentionally using a tool for something it was not design for. Its the same as using a hammer to swat flies. Yes you can kill a fly with a hammer but you might not like results. Intentionally using a recycle bin to store stuff will likely yield the same result.
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Old 08-10-2013, 06:46 AM   #671
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Any chance that the mini will work with a 2 tuner tivo once the dynamic tuner allocation is in place ?
Nope. As soon as the new series 5 units are released, almost all development for the Premier line will stop. If it has not already. Bug fixes only after that point is Tivo's norm.
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Old 08-10-2013, 06:48 AM   #672
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Why do you think it's called "RECYCLE BIN", and not "TRASH CAN", then?

I worked in IS/IT for over 15 years. I used to get yelled at when I'd clear out people's recycle bin on their work computers during maintenance, for the very reason that I used for my analogy. I NEVER said I did it, just OTHER PEOPLE.

I asked for the bickering not to start... Congrats! You win #1 "Just couldn't resist a cloaked effort to start a fight" award.
Its called the Recycle Bin because Microsoft got sued by Apple in the early days of windows over the use of the trash can. Apple copyrighted the trash can....somehow seems appropriate.
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Old 08-10-2013, 08:13 AM   #673
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FWIW... it looks like DTA is still on track.
But what will it look like when it launches? A pal of mine sat in on a usability study at TiVo HQ and was bewildered by the various permutations and not impressed with the implementation. Perhaps what ultimately ships will be better implemented and more transparent to the user - obviously this person was knee deep in it as it was the focus of the study... and it actually didn't sound so horrible to me. I just wish when I hit the peanut power button instead of going to the TiVo menu, it went back to exactly wherever I was before I shut things off.
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Old 08-10-2013, 09:07 AM   #674
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Why do you think it's called "RECYCLE BIN", and not "TRASH CAN", then?

I worked in IS/IT for over 15 years. I used to get yelled at when I'd clear out people's recycle bin on their work computers during maintenance, for the very reason that I used for my analogy. I NEVER said I did it, just OTHER PEOPLE.

I asked for the bickering not to start... Congrats! You win #1 "Just couldn't resist a cloaked effort to start a fight" award.
I know you never did it yourself I just never ran into in personally over the last couple of decades. My response had nothing to do with the TiVo Recently deleted folder only the recently deleted folder on a PC. And in your response you said not to bicker over the recently deleted folder. Which I did not. You said
Quote:
..Please (to all) let's not start the usual bickering over why anybody cares about the RD folder.
My response had nothing to do with the RD folder. I never even mentioned the RD folder

I don't care how you use the RD folder. I know people use it different ways. My GF always wants to keep it clear for some reason. Me I rarely touch it.

Where I've worked people think of the recycle bin as trash. Both a real recycle bin and a digital one. People would think that once it's in the recycle bin it's gone. So I would show them all these files that had been accumulating that they thought were deleted. But I cannot recall ever running across anyone who used the recycle bin to save files. Again that has nothing to do with the RD folder on a TiVo.
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Old 08-10-2013, 12:21 PM   #675
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Any chance that the mini will work with a 2 tuner tivo once the dynamic tuner allocation is in place ?
Technically it should be possible, but I'm not sure if they'll allow it because all of the marketing, including the box, says it requires a 4 tuner unit.

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Nope. As soon as the new series 5 units are released, almost all development for the Premier line will stop. If it has not already. Bug fixes only after that point is Tivo's norm.
That's not true. The Premiere and the new units will actually run the same software. At least for a while. They probably will stop developing for the Premiere units eventually but it wont happen immediately.
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Old 08-10-2013, 02:55 PM   #676
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The current 2.2TB limit per physical drive or partition is something in the OS.
Good, you confirm what I've been trying to say all along. THUS, they will have to change the filesystem (which is part of the OS, at least from the black box perspective), and thus all of the hacking tools will be broken.
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Old 08-10-2013, 02:58 PM   #677
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FWIW... it looks like DTA is still on track.
Argh, TLA overlap even within the same field.
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Old 08-10-2013, 04:03 PM   #678
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Good, you confirm what I've been trying to say all along. THUS, they will have to change the filesystem (which is part of the OS, at least from the black box perspective), and thus all of the hacking tools will be broken.
The OS is linux. It is not the file system.
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Old 08-10-2013, 04:03 PM   #679
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Zatz tweeted this out earlier...



I'm hearing we could see an updated version of the TiVo desktop later this year that leverages personalized content stored in the Cloud. Initially, sources indicate the ability for a user to store content in the Cloud with access from iOS and Android. This could help further explain the Roamio naming.
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Old 08-10-2013, 04:14 PM   #680
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Cloud is interesting - but what cloud?

Space that you pay TiVo a service fee for or can I use my own server?
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Old 08-10-2013, 04:17 PM   #681
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Cloud is interesting - but what cloud?

Space that you pay TiVo a service fee for or can I use my own server?
Good question. They could support a consumers own Cloud storage but I'm guessing this might be hosted in TiVo's data center(s). Perhaps they'll provide a certain amount of storage and offer additional storage for a fee.
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Old 08-10-2013, 05:29 PM   #682
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Why do you think it's called "RECYCLE BIN", and not "TRASH CAN", then?
Because it's more environmental. You're essentially recycling hard drive memory to be available for usage by something else, hence recycle bin. Apple still calls it trash fwiw.
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Old 08-10-2013, 06:24 PM   #683
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Whatever, it's your right to use your TiVo however you want. I just wanted to make you're aware of how the recordings are chosen for deletion. The rules TiVo uses for these things aren't always clear to all users.
I didn't mean to offend you, if that's how you felt about what I said. I appreciate your effort to educate me. You were trying to tell me things I already know. But, how could you know I wasn't already aware of what you were telling me, in a good-faith effort? You couldn't have, since you don't know all the details of how I use my TiVos, and why I do things the way I do (and the extent of what I do or don't already know).

So, I apologize, if I came across as harsh. Please, don't hesitate to try and help, if you feel you can. I do welcome it.

The key words in this are "good faith effort", which I wish I would see more of here. Sometimes, good faith efforts are hard to spot in the sea of cheap-shots and criticisms here, or I've had my fill of the latter, and the wrong person gets barked at.

Since I'm already at 2TB on all my TiVos, which came with 320GB/160GB dives, even if an expander would work, I really don't want to run into the problems many encounter when they add the additional point-of-failure, which an expander is. I'm sure you are aware of what happens to any recordings that get placed/spanned onto an external drive, and the external drive, or any of the connection points fail, or lose a good connection...

Once I have my new NAS server built, I'll actually be doing as you suggested, without the issues of an expander, with my NAS server.

When you have folders of programming, in SD, that have 300+ recordings in them, it's just much easier to set the SPM to "keep until I delete", than to manually keep moving the "keep until" date forward.

So, thanks again, and sorry if I offended you.

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Old 08-10-2013, 06:29 PM   #684
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FWIW, I took a survey from Tivo a few months ago that was heavy on stream type questions. At the time I didn't consider the mini or stream important to me. I've since bought a Slingbox so we could watch our Tivo'd shows while on vacation instead of packing a Tivo (yeah, done it). I'm hoping for Slingbox type, none local network restricted, type access.
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Old 08-10-2013, 06:44 PM   #685
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FWIW, I took a survey from Tivo a few months ago that was heavy on stream type questions. At the time I didn't consider the mini or stream important to me. I've since bought a Slingbox so we could watch our Tivo'd shows while on vacation instead of packing a Tivo (yeah, done it). I'm hoping for Slingbox type, none local network restricted, type access.
I would love a Slingbox type feature for TiVo. Somehow I doubt they'll do it. It would be way too popular and make people much too happy.
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Old 08-10-2013, 07:23 PM   #686
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Zatz tweeted this out earlier...



I'm hearing we could see an updated version of the TiVo desktop later this year that leverages personalized content stored in the Cloud. Initially, sources indicate the ability for a user to store content in the Cloud with access from iOS and Android. This could help further explain the Roamio naming.
I really hope the new TiVo Desktop is true. While the cloud will be nice unless I can increase the buffer so the content plays like a local recording, streaming will never be a great solution for me. I rewind, fast forward, and trickplay too many shows to have a good streaming experience. It is why I don't use Netflix or Amazon Prime.
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Old 08-10-2013, 07:52 PM   #687
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It uses the ancient Apple Partition Map scheme, not MBR. The current 2.2TB limit per physical drive or partition is something in the OS.

All of the MFS partitions are treated as one big logical drive by the TiVo software, even if they're spread across multiple physical drives. For a stock Premiere that means it's composed of what linux thinks are four separate drives (/dev/sda10 /dev/sda11 /dev/sda12 /dev/sda13).
APM would also appear to be limited to 2TB like MBR for the same reasons (32-bit with 512 byte sectors)?

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Old 08-11-2013, 02:56 AM   #688
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I just did a TiVo survey where they asked about some Stream related features. There were questions about various potential features, most relating to platforms and out of home streaming. However one I found interesting was it asked if I'd be interesting in being able to transfer protected shows to my iPad if it meant the show would be deleted fome the source TiVo after the transfer completed. So essentially they would be "moving" rather then "copying" to get around the copy once restriction. That would be a pretty cool feature.

The other cool one mentioned the possibility of a website where you could access your shows rather then having to use a specific app. That would be pretty cool too and should open up streaming to more devices.
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Old 08-11-2013, 05:24 AM   #689
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APM would also appear to be limited to 2TB like MBR for the same reasons (32-bit with 512 byte sectors)?
Yup.
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Old 08-11-2013, 07:03 AM   #690
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My guess is that any cloud based feature would involve fees. While the idea sounds great, I doubt I would pay for it.
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