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Old 08-03-2013, 01:25 PM   #481
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Thing about Flash is that Adobe has given up trying to support Flash on mobile devices, which all have faster CPUs than the embedded processors that are being used on set tops and DVRs.
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Old 08-03-2013, 02:13 PM   #482
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Thing about Flash is that Adobe has given up trying to support Flash on mobile devices, which all have faster CPUs than the embedded processors that are being used on set tops and DVRs.
And they continue to support and enhance it for the TV domain...

http://www.adobe.com/devnet/devices/...atform_tv.html
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Old 08-03-2013, 02:19 PM   #483
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One bonus from them using Adobe Air is that Samsung has also adopted Air for their apps platform and they have apps for almost all major audio/video services. So it should be relatively easy for developers to port their Samsung apps to the TiVo platform. That gives me hope for services like HBOGo, Amazon streaming and VUDU eventually landing on TiVo.
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Old 08-03-2013, 02:40 PM   #484
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One bonus from them using Adobe Air is that Samsung has also adopted Air for their apps platform and they have apps for almost all major audio/video services. So it should be relatively easy for developers to port their Samsung apps to the TiVo platform. That gives me hope for services like HBOGo, Amazon streaming and VUDU eventually landing on TiVo.
Agreed and if Zatz's DIAL support rumor is correct, even better...
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Old 08-04-2013, 05:32 PM   #485
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Agreed and if Zatz's DIAL support rumor is correct, even better...
I received a video and imagery that seems to show something DIAL-like, amongst other things, in action. But I can't say with certainty it's DIAL - it could be similar to what we have now but beefed up. Also still trying to parse the name situation. TiVo registered TiVo Series 5 with MoCA and the RF remote is labeled S5. But also aware of references in the beta software and forums to Roamio. I've also seen references, not in the UI, to Hercules and Cobalt but feel more confident those are merely code names. I have a few retail and marketing friendlies I'm tracking down who might be able to help. Maybe - might depend how close we are to a launch of one or both models. I feel pretty confident at this point there are two 6-tuner configs, maybe going by Pro and Plus. I have this (hopefully) irrational fear that the lower end 6-tuner model wouldn't include Stream support and that it'd be a software/activation upsell. This is NOT based on any intel, just knowing how companies like to generate additional revenue. Updates were made to the post, including an image of the 4-tuner model with "Roamio" name, link to one portion of the revised YouTube UI, and I linked Dan's WiFi speculation - sounds reasonable to me.

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2013-06/tivo-series-5/
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Old 08-04-2013, 05:56 PM   #486
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I wonder if the DIAL-like is related to the previous company talking about doing DLNA for TiVo.

All I know is I hope TiVo either plans to relaunch a new and improved TiVo Desktop or actually opens up the SDK so the community can incorporate any of the new features.
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Old 08-04-2013, 06:02 PM   #487
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I wonder if the DIAL-like is related to the previous company talking about doing DLNA for TiVo.

All I know is I hope TiVo either plans to relaunch a new and improved TiVo Desktop or actually opens up the SDK so the community can incorporate any of the new features.
Careful, the last time I brought up "having DLNA work with my TiVo would be nice", the rotten tomatoes started flying...

As long as they inter-operate, I could like me some "DIAL"...
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Old 08-04-2013, 07:02 PM   #488
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I'm concerned the Roamio 4-tuner version keeps sounding more and more like the cost-reduced poor stepchild. Hard drives of 1 TB and 3 TB for the 6-tuner versions implies TIVO will stick with a measly 0.5 TB for the entry level 4-tuner. That won't work for me, as I'm used to 150 HD hours on my Premier XL. With four tuners 75 HD hours could be one week's worth of recordings, so unless you keep up with your time-shifting on a week to week basis the hard drive could quickly fill up. With the small form factor how possible or easy would an internal hard drive upgrade be? I don't want an external drive expansion solution because I had all sorts of problems with that on Series 3.

I'm also concerned if reliability has been designed and tested well enough to prevent some weak link from causing the unit to fail prematurely. Maybe they think us cord-cutter OTA users are more cost-sensitive, but if I'm saving $100+ per month on cable I can afford to pay a little more for a larger hard drive, better quality tuners/components, and a conservatively safe design for reliability purposes.
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Old 08-04-2013, 07:20 PM   #489
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I received a video and imagery that seems to show something DIAL-like, amongst other things, in action. But I can't say with certainty it's DIAL - it could be similar to what we have now but beefed up. Also still trying to parse the name situation. TiVo registered TiVo Series 5 with MoCA and the RF remote is labeled S5. But also aware of references in the beta software and forums to Roamio. I've also seen references, not in the UI, to Hercules and Cobalt but feel more confident those are merely code names. I have a few retail and marketing friendlies I'm tracking down who might be able to help. Maybe - might depend how close we are to a launch of one or both models. I feel pretty confident at this point there are two 6-tuner configs, maybe going by Pro and Plus. I have this (hopefully) irrational fear that the lower end 6-tuner model wouldn't include Stream support and that it'd be a software/activation upsell. This is NOT based on any intel, just knowing how companies like to generate additional revenue. Updates were made to the post, including an image of the 4-tuner model with "Roamio" name, link to one portion of the revised YouTube UI, and I linked Dan's WiFi speculation - sounds reasonable to me.

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2013-06/tivo-series-5/
I wouldn't mind the upsell being in all the TiVos. Since without Android support, stream support is worthless to me. So I'd rather save some money and not pay for it if I'm never going to be able to use it.
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Old 08-04-2013, 07:30 PM   #490
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I'm concerned the Roamio 4-tuner version keeps sounding more and more like the cost-reduced poor stepchild. Hard drives of 1 TB and 3 TB for the 6-tuner versions implies TIVO will stick with a measly 0.5 TB for the entry level 4-tuner. That won't work for me, as I'm used to 150 HD hours on my Premier XL. With four tuners 75 HD hours could be one week's worth of recordings, so unless you keep up with your time-shifting on a week to week basis the hard drive could quickly fill up. With the small form factor how possible or easy would an internal hard drive upgrade be? I don't want an external drive expansion solution because I had all sorts of problems with that on Series 3.

I'm also concerned if reliability has been designed and tested well enough to prevent some weak link from causing the unit to fail prematurely. Maybe they think us cord-cutter OTA users are more cost-sensitive, but if I'm saving $100+ per month on cable I can afford to pay a little more for a larger hard drive, better quality tuners/components, and a conservatively safe design for reliability purposes.
The next 4 tuner model will certainly be TiVo's entry level DVR, just as the TiVo HD and then Premiere were when released. Nothing in the past would indicate they will use hardware that isn't reliable, but of course only time will tell. Hopefully it will be easy to upgrade the hard drive but with OTA it is easy enough to move stuff to a computer for storage as there are no restrictions.
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Old 08-05-2013, 03:49 AM   #491
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Updates were made to the post, including an image of the 4-tuner model with "Roamio" name, link to one portion of the revised YouTube UI, and I linked Dan's WiFi speculation - sounds reasonable to me.

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2013-06/tivo-series-5/
You may have just outed your source!

Consider this... TiVo knows they have a leak somewhere, because you keep reporting info you shouldn't have. So to figure out who it is they give every box in the beta some unique BS name, like Roamio, in hopes that you'll report it and point them toward the person leaking you the information. This is a pretty common tactic for flushing leaks.

Now I could be wrong, but if I'm not your source might be in some serious trouble.

If I am wrong and the new name is really Roamio then I have to say that is a really, really, stupid name.
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Old 08-05-2013, 06:07 AM   #492
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Nothing in the past would indicate they will use hardware that isn't reliable,
Other than the lost recordings and inability to use my Tivo HD when an external hard drive failed after 12 months, my now unsubscribed Tivo HD being in a continuous boot up loop after only 6.5 years, and my original Premier XL arriving in May 2010 DOA with bad tuners causing Tivo to send me a replacement Premier XL.
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Old 08-05-2013, 07:27 AM   #493
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Other than the lost recordings and inability to use my Tivo HD when an external hard drive failed after 12 months, my now unsubscribed Tivo HD being in a continuous boot up loop after only 6.5 years, and my original Premier XL arriving in May 2010 DOA with bad tuners causing Tivo to send me a replacement Premier XL.
A certain percentage of all electronic devices fail prematurely and 100% of all electronic devices fail at some point. That is not the same as unreliable hardware, unreliable hardward has a much higher than typical failure rate, and I do not believe (but can not prove) that any TiVo DVR has had a high failure rate. The closest thing I have seen with TiVo's that might be considered unreliable was/is the power supplies in the Series 3 units.

As far as hard drives go TiVo doesn't make them and buys form one of the worlds major vendors, if yours failed prematurely (and I am not sure 6.5 years is premature failure (drive failure is the likely reason your TiVo HD is in a reboot loop)) that was just bad luck nothing more and the supported external drives are not even a TiVo branded product.
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Old 08-05-2013, 08:10 AM   #494
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On one hand, as a Tivo nerd I enjoy the info. But on the other hand, while the leak is getting off on being a hero they're going to cross a line where they put other testers at risk.

If the aggressive 4-tuner tester/leak doesn't think Tivo would swipe all 4-tuner testers of their hardware, think again. The question is not if it pisses Tivo off, but how pissed off are they to do something about it considering the proximity to launch?
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Old 08-05-2013, 09:20 AM   #495
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CableLabs recently updated their list of retail CableCARD devices, and there are no new TiVo models. Not really a surprise as manufacturers have the ability to hold that info back for competitive reasons and such and TiVo probably knows the process better than all other CE companies.

http://www.cablelabs.com/opencable/u...ads/OC_PNP.pdf
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Old 08-05-2013, 02:34 PM   #496
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Regardless, I agree with BigJimOutlaw. It's ugly.
I like the Premiere box. Simple. Hopefully they just tweaked it slightly.
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Old 08-05-2013, 09:42 PM   #497
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Sources tells me we're looking at 1TB and 3TB options in the 6-tuner model.
So does that mean there's a new filesystem? I presume it's not 3 TB across two separate drives.

Isn't the current filesystem limited to ~2 TB?

So someone will have to figure out/leak the new filesystem info so we can put in even bigger drives!
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Old 08-05-2013, 09:49 PM   #498
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CableLabs recently updated their list of retail CableCARD devices, and there are no new TiVo models. Not really a surprise as manufacturers have the ability to hold that info back for competitive reasons and such and TiVo probably knows the process better than all other CE companies.

http://www.cablelabs.com/opencable/u...ads/OC_PNP.pdf
Who is Tivo's competition other than the cable companies themselves? There really are no 3rd party CC DVRs left.

Cable companies are going to roll their own and continue to push their own so all Tivo can appeal to are people willing to spend hundreds up front and pay the same high monthly service fees.

That's a diminishing market.
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Old 08-05-2013, 11:33 PM   #499
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Who is Tivo's competition other than the cable companies themselves? There really are no 3rd party CC DVRs left.

Cable companies are going to roll their own and continue to push their own so all Tivo can appeal to are people willing to spend hundreds up front and pay the same high monthly service fees.

That's a diminishing market.
I thought TiVos subscriber numbers have been increasing?
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Old 08-05-2013, 11:49 PM   #500
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So does that mean there's a new filesystem? I presume it's not 3 TB across two separate drives.

Isn't the current filesystem limited to ~2 TB?

So someone will have to figure out/leak the new filesystem info so we can put in even bigger drives!
The fact that it took them this long to address the 2.2TiB limit is pretty embarrassing. Hopefully they moved away entirely from the 32-bit TiVo kernel and OS and moved to something more modern. Theoretically the Flash UI can run atop any CPU architecture, that was one of its major selling points.

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I thought TiVos subscriber numbers have been increasing?
Through the MSO's yes, but their retail numbers have been falling pretty regularly over the past 5-7 years IIRC. Obviously Sam is the resident TiVo financial guru and can break these numbers down much better than I can.
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Old 08-06-2013, 06:48 AM   #501
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I thought TiVos subscriber numbers have been increasing?
TiVo has now posted subscriber increases for seven straight quarters, following a four-year streak of declining subscriber numbers. In the latest period, TiVo added a net 255,000 subscribers, compared with the 206,000 subscribers it gained a year earlier.

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-...20-710657.html
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Old 08-06-2013, 07:06 AM   #502
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That WSJ article is total, not retail-specific. Here's a chart from TiVo's quarterly filing. Update: I believe TiVo drops Lifetimed units from reports after X years. But that's a financial metric and many of those folks would still be active users? Again, Sam's probably best equipped to explain.

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Old 08-06-2013, 07:15 AM   #503
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Retail & MSO Subscriber Trends

Here are some charts I've put together for the subscriber trends...




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Old 08-06-2013, 07:17 AM   #504
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That WSJ article is total, not retail-specific. Here's a chart from TiVo's quarterly filing. Update: I believe TiVo drops Lifetimed units from reports after X years. But that's a financial metric as many of those folks would still be active users? Again, Sam's probably best equipped to explain.
Lifetime's subscribers are still counted in the retail subscriber count although TiVo no longer records revenue from lifetime boxes after 66 months (i.e., when someone purchases a $499 lifetime subscription, TiVo's cash flow increases by $499 but the record revenue at $7.56/mo for 66 months).
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Old 08-06-2013, 07:34 AM   #505
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The fact that it took them this long to address the 2.2TiB limit is pretty embarrassing. Hopefully they moved away entirely from the 32-bit TiVo kernel and OS and moved to something more modern. Theoretically the Flash UI can run atop any CPU architecture, that was one of its major selling points.
They really didn't have a reason to until now since 2TB drives were the largest TiVo offered. When the Elite launched the 3TB drives were still up there in price around where the 4TB are now.
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Old 08-06-2013, 07:47 AM   #506
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If this is true I think this is really a bad decision.

Quote:
Also hearing TiVo's HDUI will remain incomplete... ha?
https://twitter.com/davezatz/status/364724405999386624

I realize this has been debated over and over, but I think not finishing the UI prior to the new box is a bad decision. No I don't want them to delay the S5 to finish the UI, but I guess now we have to wonder if it will ever be finished.
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Old 08-06-2013, 07:49 AM   #507
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I realize this has been debated over and over, but I think not finishing the UI prior to the new box is a bad decision. No I don't want them to delay the S5 to finish the UI, but I guess now we have to wonder if it will ever be finished.
That tweet was specific to the Premiere. Can't speak to the S5 with that level of granularity yet. Although my assumption is the visuals would be similar...
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Old 08-06-2013, 07:53 AM   #508
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At the minimum they should finish the WL screens, the settings/diags are not a big deal. But it all should be HD now and really should have been a couple of years ago. It just continues to make them look lame.
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Old 08-06-2013, 07:57 AM   #509
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At the minimum they should finish the WL screens, the settings/diags are not a big deal. But it all should be HD now and really should have been a couple of years ago. It just continues to make them look lame.
At a minimum it should be all the screens. Especially the settings screens.

I go to the settings screen more often than some other screens. Since there are constantly channel changes on FiOS and I need to go in a remove or add channels to favorites on the channel list. Since every time a channel is changed or added it is automatically added to the channel list.

I just hope we hear some info soon about the S5 and when it will go on sale and for how much. The sooner I can get a six tuner S5 the sooner I can drop down to one cable card and also sell my two TiVo Elites.
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Old 08-06-2013, 08:00 AM   #510
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At a minimum it should be all the screens. Especially the settings screens.

I go to the settings screen more often than some other screens. Since there are constantly channel changes on FiOS and I need to go in a remove or add channels to favorites on the channel list. Since every time a channel is changed or added it is automatically added to the channel list.
I don't think the settings screens are a big deal. I can remove a channel right from the guide now so I rarely go to the channels screen. I don't see a huge reason to update CableCARD and Tuning Adapter screens since those are going away eventually.

I think the big deal is the WL screen and I suspect that we might see that one updated.

I do expect that the Series 5 will run the exact same software baseline as the S4.
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