TiVo Community
TiVo Community
TiVo Community
Go Back   TiVo Community > Main TiVo Forums > TiVo Stream
TiVo Community
Reply
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-02-2014, 10:58 AM   #1
sbiller
Registered User
 
sbiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 1,859
Streaming to Additional Ancillary Devices Coming Soon?

TiVo filed a waiver request with the FCC today which contained a few surprising revelations.

Quote:
Consumers today can purchase retail TiVo DVRs and ancillary devices that support iOS and Android products, as well as TVs (using the TiVo Mini), and that soon will support additional ancillary devices that are popular with consumers.
Quote:
Expansion of this solution to additional devices in the home is on TiVo’s future product roadmap.
Quote:
TiVo’s solution transports all content from a set-top box to consumer IP devices, including game players and Smart TVs (with a TiVo Mini adapter).

sbiller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2014, 11:11 AM   #2
BigJimOutlaw
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,529
Good to see you around more again Sam. Nice find.
BigJimOutlaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2014, 11:24 AM   #3
sbiller
Registered User
 
sbiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 1,859
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJimOutlaw View Post
Good to see you around more again Sam. Nice find.
I never left!

For TiVo to disclose this in a filing, it must be close.
sbiller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2014, 11:41 AM   #4
consumedsoul
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbiller View Post
TiVo filed a waiver request with the FCC today which contained a few surprising revelations.
Nice. Streaming everywhere! (fingers crossed)
__________________
Roamio Basic / WD30EFRX / Stream / Comcast Xfinity
consumedsoul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2014, 01:34 PM   #5
bradleys
It'll be fine....
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,850
Tivo demoed an early Roku presentation at CES last year, I think it is good for the ecosystem. I suspect it will not be as smooth or feature rich as a Mini, but great for secondary TV's in the home.

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2014-01/tivo-coming-roku/
__________________
TiVo S2 (Retired)
TiVo Series 3 (Sold)
TiVo HD (Sold)
TiVo Premier (2 TB Upgrade)
TiVo Roamio Plus
TiVo Mini
iPad TiVo app
TiVo Stream (Sold)
Personal Video Share powered by PyTiVo
bradleys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2014, 02:02 PM   #6
Diana Collins
Registered User
 
Diana Collins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: New York City Suburbs
Posts: 1,382
The DirecTV client for smart TVs (using the RVU protocol which only a few Sony and Samsung TVs yet support) does have some "challenges" when doing trick-play. It is also significantly slower than the native devices. But as Dave points out in the article, it looks more like it will use output from a Stream. That would mean the Stream would have to produce thumbnails to support Roku-style trick play. They say a major Stream software update is coming...this would sure qualify as "major."
__________________
Current Setup: 2 Roamio Pros, 5 Minis on FiOS (all with lifetime)

Moderator, DBSDish.com 1999-2000
Co-Founder and Administrator, DBSForums.com 2000-2006
Diana Collins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2014, 02:04 PM   #7
aaronwt
HD Addict
 
aaronwt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Northern VA(Woodbridge)
Posts: 13,865
So future roadmap? What does that mean? 2017? 2018?
__________________
Roamio Pro
TiVo Mini x4
Roamio Basic OTA
39TB unRAID1--53TB unRAID2--36TB unRAID3
XBL/PSN: WormholeXtreme
aaronwt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2014, 02:09 PM   #8
bradleys
It'll be fine....
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,850
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
So future roadmap? What does that mean? 2017? 2018?
I suspect it is significantly closer then that. TiVo doesn't generally tip it hand that far out with these types of filings.
__________________
TiVo S2 (Retired)
TiVo Series 3 (Sold)
TiVo HD (Sold)
TiVo Premier (2 TB Upgrade)
TiVo Roamio Plus
TiVo Mini
iPad TiVo app
TiVo Stream (Sold)
Personal Video Share powered by PyTiVo
bradleys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2014, 02:22 PM   #9
Grakthis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 598
The mention of a 'with a TiVo Mini adapter' is especially interesting to me. That suggests a piece of hardware. Possibly something that allows MPG2 support while still allowing the client device to handle the UI pieces?
Grakthis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2014, 03:33 PM   #10
Austin Bike
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbiller View Post

For TiVo to disclose this in a filing, it must be close.
I would disagree based on how long it took (or is taking) to get android support out there. Especially in dealing with the government, you want to go in early and have all your ducks in a row for the fight that will ultimately ensue.

This could also just be a way to put a "placeholder" out there to give them options in the future.

At my old company (semiconductors) we'd get patents on a lot of things that never made it into silicon, just to be sure we had it on paper first.
Austin Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2014, 03:47 PM   #11
aaronwt
HD Addict
 
aaronwt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Northern VA(Woodbridge)
Posts: 13,865
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleys View Post
I suspect it is significantly closer then that. TiVo doesn't generally tip it hand that far out with these types of filings.
Then 2016? Like in 2012 when the stream was released and Android support was coming soon. Here it is around two years later and Android Support still isn't out yet.
__________________
Roamio Pro
TiVo Mini x4
Roamio Basic OTA
39TB unRAID1--53TB unRAID2--36TB unRAID3
XBL/PSN: WormholeXtreme
aaronwt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2014, 04:41 PM   #12
bradleys
It'll be fine....
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,850
There are a lot of examples when TiVo submitted filings and within a few months the product was released. Being ticked at TiVo because Apple and Google cannot agree on a streaming standard is your right, but doesn't necessarily relate to all things TiVo.
__________________
TiVo S2 (Retired)
TiVo Series 3 (Sold)
TiVo HD (Sold)
TiVo Premier (2 TB Upgrade)
TiVo Roamio Plus
TiVo Mini
iPad TiVo app
TiVo Stream (Sold)
Personal Video Share powered by PyTiVo
bradleys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2014, 04:42 PM   #13
sbiller
Registered User
 
sbiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 1,859
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
Then 2016? Like in 2012 when the stream was released and Android support was coming soon. Here it is around two years later and Android Support still isn't out yet.
I would equate "soon" to this year.
sbiller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2014, 04:44 PM   #14
morac
Cat God
 
morac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NJ
Posts: 6,378
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
Then 2016? Like in 2012 when the stream was released and Android support was coming soon. Here it is around two years later and Android Support still isn't out yet.
My guess would be 2015. We know there's a major update coming to the Stream in 2015.
morac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2014, 04:51 PM   #15
sbiller
Registered User
 
sbiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 1,859
Quote:
Originally Posted by morac View Post
My guess would be 2015. We know there's a major update coming to the Stream in 2015.
Good point. We know that the update is early 2015 for h.264.
sbiller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2014, 06:09 PM   #16
Dan203
Super Moderator
 
Dan203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Nevada
Posts: 24,898
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grakthis View Post
The mention of a 'with a TiVo Mini adapter' is especially interesting to me. That suggests a piece of hardware. Possibly something that allows MPG2 support while still allowing the client device to handle the UI pieces?
I think they are referring to the TiVo Mini, not a special adapter.

In most cases the decoder chip in these devices supports MPEG-2 as well as H.264. In some cases it's disabled for licensing reasons, but the hardware is capable of supporting it. So a special adapter just for MPEG-2 decoding doesn't make much sense. I'm betting that was just a poor choice of wording.
__________________
Dan Haddix
Super Moderator
Developer for VideoReDo
Dan203 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2014, 07:26 AM   #17
sbiller
Registered User
 
sbiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 1,859
TiVo to “Support Popular Consumer Devices” | Zatz Not Funny!

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2014-09/...sumer-devices/
sbiller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2014, 09:36 AM   #18
JWhites
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 859
Let's just get streaming working for Android, MPEG-4 streaming support, and get rid of the OOH proxy server first and go from there.
JWhites is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2014, 09:37 AM   #19
Grakthis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 598
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
I think they are referring to the TiVo Mini, not a special adapter.

In most cases the decoder chip in these devices supports MPEG-2 as well as H.264. In some cases it's disabled for licensing reasons, but the hardware is capable of supporting it. So a special adapter just for MPEG-2 decoding doesn't make much sense. I'm betting that was just a poor choice of wording.
Huh. I thought there was a decoding issue with boxes like, for example, Amazon's, that would make the streaming experience of a hypothetical "TiVo App" more akin to the stream than a mini? I was thinking the addition of some hardware might enable more mini-like functionality from third party boxes.

Anyways, you may be right, but calling the mini an "adapter" is awkward, don't you think?
Grakthis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2014, 09:43 AM   #20
JWhites
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 859
If there was going to be an MPEG adapter it'd be for MPEG-4 which I believe is backwards compatible with MPEG-2.
JWhites is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2014, 09:45 AM   #21
bradleys
It'll be fine....
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,850
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
I think they are referring to the TiVo Mini, not a special adapter.
I read this to indicate that you will need a TiVo Mini Adapter (a new product) to work in cooperation with Smart TVs to transport content from a TiVo set-top box. The Mini itself already exists, I am thinking more a TiVo Mini USB Dongle - or a TiVo designed shoebox hanging off the back of your TV...

I suspect the idea is to not have to deal with all the Smart TV app distribution mechanisms as well as providing a common, controllable security mechanism.

In any case I expect the functionality of these products to be less than what the Current Mini provides, more in the line of the TiVo IOS app. The upside is that these products should be a lot cheaper, possibly, dare I say, free.

And that is where I start to think these products bring huge value for TiVo. If you want the full TiVo experience you will need a base unit or a full Mini, if you just want access to your TiVo content then any number of ancillary apps are available. Maybe people will stop saying - "why am I paying a service fee for just guide data"


Quote:
TiVo’s solution transports all content from a set-top box to consumer IP devices, including game players and Smart TVs (with a TiVo Mini adapter). Such features and supported consumer devices will only continue to grow, while the number of MPEG2 devices will continue to dwindle and the availability of DLNA-compliant devices is unknown. TiVo also has developed products that transcode from MPEG2 to MPEG4 and has achieved CableLabs approval to securely stream content to consumer-owned devices, including iOS devices

How would I do this if I were TiVo, to create a very compelling ecosystem?

TiVo Mini
$200 - No service fee
Requires 4 Tuner or better Premiere or Roamio DVR
Full TiVo experience

TiVo Mini Dongle
$70 - No Service fee
Connects to TV's, similar to Google Chromecast
Requires Stream
Stream based functionality

TiVo Apps
Free
Roku, Amazon Fire, Apple TV, Xbox One
Requires Stream
Stream based functionality

TiVo 2 Go
Free
Browser Based UI
Requires Stream
Stream based functionality
OOH Streaming
__________________
TiVo S2 (Retired)
TiVo Series 3 (Sold)
TiVo HD (Sold)
TiVo Premier (2 TB Upgrade)
TiVo Roamio Plus
TiVo Mini
iPad TiVo app
TiVo Stream (Sold)
Personal Video Share powered by PyTiVo

Last edited by bradleys : 09-03-2014 at 01:09 PM.
bradleys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2014, 01:35 PM   #22
Dan203
Super Moderator
 
Dan203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Nevada
Posts: 24,898
An MPEG-2 stream could be as high as 20Mbps, which is not great when dealing with a wifi connected adapter. Plus TiVo fired their hardware design team, it's unlikely they've got some new hardware dongle in the works.

A better option for them would be to just make the App/Stream Chromecast aware, then you could just pick a show in the app and cast it to your $35 Chromecast. No need to design their own hardware and the API is open so it should require minimal effort to enable the app. (the Stream side might be more work, but I'm betting they're already doing that work to get Android functioning)

If they do make the App/Stream Chromecast aware then it's going to be a game changer for me. I'd buy a Chromecast for every TV in the house that doesn't have a Mini already.
__________________
Dan Haddix
Super Moderator
Developer for VideoReDo
Dan203 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2014, 01:40 PM   #23
bradleys
It'll be fine....
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,850
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
An MPEG-2 stream could be as high as 20Mbps, which is not great when dealing with a wifi connected adapter.
I agree, that is why I suggest it would need the TiVo Stream as a feed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
Plus TiVo fired their hardware design team, it's unlikely they've got some new hardware dongle in the works.
I am not buying that at all, they let go a 5 designers, they did not leave the hardware business - this could easily be done in house with contract work or outsourced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
A better option for them would be to just make the App/Stream Chromecast aware, then you could just pick a show in the app and cast it to your $35 Chromecast. No need to design their own hardware and the API is open so it should require minimal effort to enable the app. (the Stream side might be more work, but I'm betting they're already doing that work to get Android functioning)

If they do make the App/Stream Chromecast aware then it's going to be a game changer for me. I'd buy a Chromecast for every TV in the house that doesn't have a Mini already.
Interesting thought on just going with Chromecast integration. Since this is just conjecture it is just as good as my WAG!

One thing, I sure hope people do not think they are going to get full mini functionality in these ancillary applications - I suspect they will be highly disappointed.
__________________
TiVo S2 (Retired)
TiVo Series 3 (Sold)
TiVo HD (Sold)
TiVo Premier (2 TB Upgrade)
TiVo Roamio Plus
TiVo Mini
iPad TiVo app
TiVo Stream (Sold)
Personal Video Share powered by PyTiVo
bradleys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2014, 01:48 PM   #24
Dan203
Super Moderator
 
Dan203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Nevada
Posts: 24,898
There is some speculation that TiVo had to add MPEG-Dash support to the Stream for the Android app to work. If that's true then adding Chromecast support would be almost trivial. The Chromecast API is open and it supports MPEG-Dash out of the box. It's basically as simple as passing a URL over to the Chromecast.

Another fun idea is that with Dash support we could also stream to a browser on a PC. Most modern browsers have Dash support built in, so if the stream supports a basic URL format we can likely figure it out and stream the same thing to a PC browser.
__________________
Dan Haddix
Super Moderator
Developer for VideoReDo
Dan203 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2014, 07:41 PM   #25
aaronwt
HD Addict
 
aaronwt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Northern VA(Woodbridge)
Posts: 13,865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
There is some speculation that TiVo had to add MPEG-Dash support to the Stream for the Android app to work. If that's true then adding Chromecast support would be almost trivial. The Chromecast API is open and it supports MPEG-Dash out of the box. It's basically as simple as passing a URL over to the Chromecast.

................
So then 12 months to add Chromecast support?
__________________
Roamio Pro
TiVo Mini x4
Roamio Basic OTA
39TB unRAID1--53TB unRAID2--36TB unRAID3
XBL/PSN: WormholeXtreme
aaronwt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2014, 09:02 PM   #26
Dan203
Super Moderator
 
Dan203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Nevada
Posts: 24,898
Probably.
__________________
Dan Haddix
Super Moderator
Developer for VideoReDo
Dan203 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2014, 10:09 PM   #27
JWhites
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 859
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
If they do make the App/Stream Chromecast aware then it's going to be a game changer for me. I'd buy a Chromecast for every TV in the house that doesn't have a Mini already.
Which is probably exactly what TiVo doesn't want when they could be making money off you with the Mini and it's subscription.
JWhites is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2014, 07:47 AM   #28
ilovedvrs
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
So then 12 months to add Chromecast support?
In 12 months from now I plan to have the new Google TVs with Chromecast functions built in... Tivo is losing the race..
__________________
Roamio <- S3 <- S2 <- S1 ( Tivo since 1999 )
ilovedvrs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2014, 07:51 AM   #29
sbiller
Registered User
 
sbiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 1,859
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWhites View Post
Which is probably exactly what TiVo doesn't want when they could be making money off you with the Mini and it's subscription.
Rumor has it that the Mini subscription is going away...

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2014-08/...-service-fees/
sbiller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2014, 08:01 AM   #30
slowbiscuit
FUBAR
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: In the ATL
Posts: 2,583
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleys View Post
There are a lot of examples when TiVo submitted filings and within a few months the product was released. Being ticked at TiVo because Apple and Google cannot agree on a streaming standard is your right, but doesn't necessarily relate to all things TiVo.
Man, you're a real Tivo apologist here. We'll all have to disagree with you on why Android streaming is so late, because none of us know the real deal.
slowbiscuit is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Forum Jump




Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Advertisements

TiVo Community
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media

(C) 2013 Magenium Solutions - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVo® is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not owned or operated by TiVo Inc.
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:14 PM.
OUR NETWORK: MyOpenRouter | TechLore | SansaCommunity | RoboCommunity | MediaSmart Home | Explore3DTV | Dijit Community | DVR Playground |