TiVo Community
TiVo Community
TiVo Community
Go Back   TiVo Community > Main TiVo Forums > TiVo Premiere DVRs
TiVo Community
Reply
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-21-2012, 09:05 PM   #1
MeInDallas
Registered User
 
MeInDallas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 835
Upside Down Hard Drive

I've been wondering this for awhile, and I've not seen a thread about it, but why would Tivo mount the hard drive upside down in the Premiere models? I've heard people say it wont hurt the drive and then a few say its not good for it. If you look at the bracket its mounted on, they couldve easily made the holes lower and mounted it right side up, but if you try to take it out and then mount it that way you cant close the box back up, yes I tried.

I'm just curious of others thoughts on this. Was there a specific reason they did this? Or thats just how it ended up?
MeInDallas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2012, 09:12 PM   #2
unitron
Registered User
 
unitron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: semi-coastal NC
Posts: 13,553
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeInDallas View Post
I've been wondering this for awhile, and I've not seen a thread about it, but why would Tivo mount the hard drive upside down in the Premiere models? I've heard people say it wont hurt the drive and then a few say its not good for it. If you look at the bracket its mounted on, they couldve easily made the holes lower and mounted it right side up, but if you try to take it out and then mount it that way you cant close the box back up, yes I tried.

I'm just curious of others thoughts on this. Was there a specific reason they did this? Or thats just how it ended up?
Perhaps for better cooling airflow.

Is there enough clearance to add on of those hard drive fans that would ordinarily be under, gravitationally speaking, the drive?
__________________
(thisismysigfile)


"I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."

Darth TiVo, 14 February, 2011
unitron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2012, 09:13 PM   #3
dianebrat
Uncontrolled Force
 
dianebrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: boston'ish
Posts: 7,820
It's not upside down, drives can be mounted with either flat side up, actually in any position with a flat side down.

There's also a slight preference in some designs to have the PCB up to help dissipate heat buildup.
__________________
"There is a distinct difference between having an open mind and having a hole in your head from which your brain leaks out."
dianebrat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2012, 09:26 PM   #4
MeInDallas
Registered User
 
MeInDallas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 835
Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
Perhaps for better cooling airflow.

Is there enough clearance to add on of those hard drive fans that would ordinarily be under, gravitationally speaking, the drive?
Theres no clearance at all. The bottom side is right at the top of the box almost with maybe a few centimeters between. Heres a pic of the bracket, and if they had drilled those holes lower then you could fit the drive in there right side up. Just really strange that they would mount it that way.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Bracket.JPG (70.6 KB, 137 views)
MeInDallas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2012, 10:01 PM   #5
unitron
Registered User
 
unitron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: semi-coastal NC
Posts: 13,553
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeInDallas View Post
Theres no clearance at all. The bottom side is right at the top of the box almost with maybe a few centimeters between. Heres a pic of the bracket, and if they had drilled those holes lower then you could fit the drive in there right side up. Just really strange that they would mount it that way.
If they've got the drive that far up in the air, maybe there's room underneath for a hard drive fan.

You'll just have to figure out a mounting method that doesn't rely on the 4 holes on the circuit board side of the drive.

(3M white foam mounting tape, perhaps?)

And of course the whole "where to get the power for it" question.

For those who actually want to do it, look into 3M T-tap quick connects.
__________________
(thisismysigfile)


"I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."

Darth TiVo, 14 February, 2011
unitron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2012, 12:26 AM   #6
Worf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1,674
Yeah, the mounting of a regular desktop hard drive in operation is any of the 6 faces down. Hard drive manufacturers are sort of forced into this situation because computer cases can put hard drives with any side down (I've seen cases where drives are mounted so the side is facing down, or the front or back. Upside down happens too, usually on cases where the case flips open and the hard drive mounts end up flipping over, or on drive brackets (one of my PCs uses drive brackets and the bracket holds the drive upside down in the case).

Heck, perhaps it's done because it's easier to assemble TiVo that way.
Worf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2012, 06:42 AM   #7
aaronwt
HD Addict
 
aaronwt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Northern VA(Woodbridge)
Posts: 14,045
Yes, it really doesn't matter which side is facing up. The OP should not even worry about it and install the drive as TiVo intended.

I have no idea who would say it's not good for the drive to be mounted this way. It really makes no difference. I've used a couple hundred drives over the last seventeen years and had them mounted multiple ways. I've never had an issue with them.
__________________
Roamio Pro
TiVo Mini x4
Roamio Basic OTA
39TB unRAID1--53TB unRAID2--36TB unRAID3
XBL/PSN: WormholeXtreme

Last edited by aaronwt : 02-22-2012 at 07:42 AM. Reason: spelling doH!!
aaronwt is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2012, 07:02 AM   #8
atmuscarella
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Rochester NY
Posts: 3,842
I agree it doesn't matter what side is up.

In the past computer manufactures used to make cases designed to allow the user to set the case up like a tower or to lay flat so you could sit your CRT Monitor on it. The hard drives and the other disk drives worked however you had the case set.
__________________
atmuscarella
R.I.P. - 04/04 - Dish 510
09/05 - Humax T-800
R.I.P. - 08/06 - TiVo
05/08 - TiVo HD
06/08 - Panasonic 50PZ800U 50" Plazma!!
03/10 - Series 3
11/10 - Premiere
09/13 - Roamio
atmuscarella is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2012, 08:04 AM   #9
Soapm
Registered User
 
Soapm's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: So close, yet too far away
Posts: 1,477
Quote:
Originally Posted by atmuscarella View Post
I agree it doesn't matter what side is up..
Unless there is a sudden jolt then the bits may fall off the platters if you have the drive upside down... It's harder to knock the bits off the platters if you mount the drive upside right. Everyone knows that...
Soapm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2012, 08:22 AM   #10
Ed_Hunt
Pokerpro
 
Ed_Hunt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Patterson, California
Posts: 246
But the drive is magnetic so if the bits fall off they come right back again don't they? But then how would they get into the right order? I'm going to mount mine right side up so that doesn't happen. I just won't put the cover on.
__________________
"Luck is the residue of design"
1 S2 Tivo w/lifetime retired
1 HD Tivo Lifetime
1 Roamio OTA only
60" LG Plasma
60" Vizio 1080P
36" LG HD
Ed_Hunt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2012, 08:51 AM   #11
ronaldheft
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed_Hunt View Post
But the drive is magnetic so if the bits fall off they come right back again don't they? But then how would they get into the right order? I'm going to mount mine right side up so that doesn't happen. I just won't put the cover on.
Not sure if you're playing along, but Soapm was making a joke. There is nothing physical about a bit, it's just a magnetic charge, so it can't fall off a hard drive.

What people worry about with a sudden jolt is not bits falling off the platter, but the magnetic head (which is sort of like the needle on an old record player) physically hitting the disk and scratching it. When a scratch occurs it throws off the magnetic readings in that area of the disk, causing data loss.

Based on years of experience with hard drives, there is no correct way to mount a hard drive. If there was, hard drives would have a "this side up" label on them. The only concern is physical motion while the hard drive is operating, so just don't shake your TiVo while it's on and you'll be ok.
ronaldheft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2012, 08:46 PM   #12
Soapm
Registered User
 
Soapm's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: So close, yet too far away
Posts: 1,477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed_Hunt View Post
But the drive is magnetic so if the bits fall off they come right back again don't they? But then how would they get into the right order? I'm going to mount mine right side up so that doesn't happen. I just won't put the cover on.
If you leave the cover off, make sure it's not near a dust buster. That'll suck the bits right out of it...
Soapm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2012, 12:12 AM   #13
Worf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1,674
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed_Hunt View Post
But the drive is magnetic so if the bits fall off they come right back again don't they? But then how would they get into the right order? I'm going to mount mine right side up so that doesn't happen. I just won't put the cover on.
Careful if you take the cover off. The bits can fall off and stick onto something else. Cleaning up that mess is a seriously annoying job. Plus TiVos have fans which blow them around and they can really embed themselves in all the nooks and crannies of the TiVo. Especially if they get caught under the processor.
Worf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2012, 01:50 AM   #14
zowwie85
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 89
This thread is funny. I'm so glad Token-Ring networking died out before it ever became a possibility in the home - remember when the token would sometimes fall out when a device was unplugged? Darned shame if that happened behind a piece of furniture.
zowwie85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2012, 07:49 AM   #15
Ed_Hunt
Pokerpro
 
Ed_Hunt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Patterson, California
Posts: 246
LOL, thats all I have to say.
__________________
"Luck is the residue of design"
1 S2 Tivo w/lifetime retired
1 HD Tivo Lifetime
1 Roamio OTA only
60" LG Plasma
60" Vizio 1080P
36" LG HD
Ed_Hunt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2012, 07:15 PM   #16
MichaelK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 7,299
Quote:
Originally Posted by zowwie85 View Post
This thread is funny. I'm so glad Token-Ring networking died out before it ever became a possibility in the home - remember when the token would sometimes fall out when a device was unplugged? Darned shame if that happened behind a piece of furniture.
sorry i have to correct your spelling. That's a common misconception.

While sometimes colloquially called a "token ring"- The original engineer who developed the standard, Willian Bo Baggins, actually named it a Tolkien Ring. Each site's network engineer used to be called the lord of the ring.

When the connectors would fall off and land behind the furniture sometimes you would move the furniture and they would be gone. As if a hobbit or something had just ran off with them or perhaps they fell down a rabbit hole or something like it
MichaelK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2012, 07:43 PM   #17
daveak
Series 3 Novice
 
daveak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,451
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelK View Post
sorry i have to correct your spelling. That's a common misconception.

While sometimes colloquially called a "token ring"- The original engineer who developed the standard, Willian Bo Baggins, actually named it a Tolkien Ring. Each site's network engineer used to be called the lord of the ring.

When the connectors would fall off and land behind the furniture sometimes you would move the furniture and they would be gone. As if a hobbit or something had just ran off with them or perhaps they fell down a rabbit hole or something like it
You should have mentioned the real reason the Tolkien Ring standard ultimately failed. Their was a corruption issue with the master ring. This resulted in most of the lesser rings being corrupted as well, and the only remedy was to destroy the master ring. Once the master ring was destroyed, there was no way to bring back the system controlled by the master ring. Though the engineer who orchestrated the end of the corruption has been credited as the one who developed the standard, he is merely the one who finally brought the corrupted Tolkien Ring system to an end - Thereby paving the way for a new ultimate battle to break free of corrupted systems, fought primarily between the forces of Microsoft and an Apple.
__________________
Indecision may or may not be my problem.
- Jimmy Buffett
daveak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2012, 09:14 PM   #18
MikeAndrews
Registered abuser
 
MikeAndrews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Northern Illinois (Dn Nr WI)
Posts: 12,107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Worf View Post
Yeah, the mounting of a regular desktop hard drive in operation is any of the 6 faces down. Hard drive manufacturers are sort of forced into this situation because computer cases can put hard drives with any side down ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
Yes, it really doesn't matter which side is facing up. The OP should not even worry about it and install the drive as TiVo intended.

I have no idea who would say it's not good for the drive to be mounted this way. It really makes no difference. I've used a couple hundred drives over the last seventeen years and had them mounted multiple ways. I've never had an issue with them.
The real story is up to the drive manufacturer. In the past I've seen drive documents that say to not install the drive circuit side up, or connector side up. Not so much these days when I think they long since perfected the mechanical issues.

You STILL can't run most hard drives at high altitudes like 10,00 feet or above because the flying heads need enough air pressure to fly. Same with cold below 40 degrees F or so.

READ THE SPEC SHEET.
__________________
1) Series 4 Premiere - Lifetime
2) Series 3 OLED - Lifetime.
2) Series 2 DT 500GB
Mac Mini NAS with 9 7 x 2TB drives.
UVerse and OTA

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MikeAndrews is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2012, 09:16 PM   #19
MikeAndrews
Registered abuser
 
MikeAndrews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Northern Illinois (Dn Nr WI)
Posts: 12,107
Quote:
Originally Posted by zowwie85 View Post
This thread is funny. I'm so glad Token-Ring networking died out before it ever became a possibility in the home - remember when the token would sometimes fall out when a device was unplugged? Darned shame if that happened behind a piece of furniture.
The real problem was that once the ethernet became common you couldn't mix it with token ring because the tokens kept getting caught in the ether net.
__________________
1) Series 4 Premiere - Lifetime
2) Series 3 OLED - Lifetime.
2) Series 2 DT 500GB
Mac Mini NAS with 9 7 x 2TB drives.
UVerse and OTA

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MikeAndrews is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2012, 12:37 AM   #20
Worf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1,674
*Token*, not tokens. There's only one on token ring (it's why it's not called tokens ring).

So yeah, trying to mix up your token ring with ethernet was basically useless because you'd need someone standing by just to take the token out of the net and put it on the other side, after which it promptly gets caught again.

We fixed it by using a token gun to shoot the token through the net, blasting a hole so it doesn't get caught anymore. Problem is, tokens are extremely delicate, and after the third hole or so, it was so deformed it wouldn't fit through the token ring anymore and after the fifth hole, it just disintegrated.

Try explaining THAT to your boss. And tokens are extremely hard to find - it's like they only supply one with the network. TO get another required swapping out all the hardware and cabling. Talk about a scam. These days I think people recover them so if you need it, you can search eBay for a new-to-you one.
Worf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2012, 07:02 AM   #21
Ed_Hunt
Pokerpro
 
Ed_Hunt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Patterson, California
Posts: 246
"These days I think people recover them so if you need it, you can search eBay for a new-to-you one."

Thanks I found just what I needed.
__________________
"Luck is the residue of design"
1 S2 Tivo w/lifetime retired
1 HD Tivo Lifetime
1 Roamio OTA only
60" LG Plasma
60" Vizio 1080P
36" LG HD
Ed_Hunt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2012, 08:37 AM   #22
lillevig
Hot in West Texas
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: San Angelo, TX
Posts: 1,760
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeInDallas View Post
I've been wondering this for awhile, and I've not seen a thread about it, but why would Tivo mount the hard drive upside down in the Premiere models? I've heard people say it wont hurt the drive and then a few say its not good for it. If you look at the bracket its mounted on, they couldve easily made the holes lower and mounted it right side up, but if you try to take it out and then mount it that way you cant close the box back up, yes I tried.

I'm just curious of others thoughts on this. Was there a specific reason they did this? Or thats just how it ended up?
Mine wasn't upside down. Did you check to see if yours was built on a Monday or a Friday?
__________________
"I'm just one story in a two story town." Bon Jovi
lillevig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2012, 08:41 AM   #23
unitron
Registered User
 
unitron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: semi-coastal NC
Posts: 13,553
Quote:
Originally Posted by lillevig View Post
Mine wasn't upside down. Did you check to see if yours was built on a Monday or a Friday?
In a Premiere it was mounted label up?

It didn't lool like the brackets would accomodate that.
__________________
(thisismysigfile)


"I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."

Darth TiVo, 14 February, 2011
unitron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2012, 09:18 AM   #24
rainwater
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,066
Quote:
Originally Posted by lillevig View Post
Mine wasn't upside down. Did you check to see if yours was built on a Monday or a Friday?
Unless they changed the mounting bracket, you can't mount it right side up and still be able to close the lid.
rainwater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2012, 09:25 AM   #25
lessd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 6,006
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainwater View Post
Unless they changed the mounting bracket, you can't mount it right side up and still be able to close the lid.
No! No! TiVo now has a thiner drive, model WDxxxthin that they use on Mondays and Fridays, that drive can be mounted up or down, when mounted up TiVo has a small extension drive connector to make it all fit.
__________________
Les Daniels

_____________________________________________
3 Roamio Plus upgraded to 2Tb & 3Tb, and 2 Minis,
lessd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2012, 10:51 AM   #26
L David Matheny
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: SE Ohio
Posts: 1,234
Quote:
Originally Posted by lessd View Post
No! No! TiVo now has a thiner drive, model WDxxxthin that they use on Mondays and Fridays, that drive can be mounted up or down, when mounted up TiVo has a small extension drive connector to make it all fit.
This is more humor, of course. There have been some chuckles in this thread recently. But, people: Don't quit your day jobs to go into standup comedy.
L David Matheny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2012, 01:14 PM   #27
MeInDallas
Registered User
 
MeInDallas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 835
Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
In a Premiere it was mounted label up?

It didn't lool like the brackets would accomodate that.
It's not, they are just making jokes and not being serious. All the hard drives in the Series 4 Premiere, Premiere XL, and Elite are mounted upside down.
MeInDallas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2012, 01:47 PM   #28
lillevig
Hot in West Texas
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: San Angelo, TX
Posts: 1,760
Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
In a Premiere it was mounted label up?

It didn't lool like the brackets would accomodate that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainwater View Post
Unless they changed the mounting bracket, you can't mount it right side up and still be able to close the lid.
Press Release: Mr. Lillevig's campaign manager has issued the following statement: This is yet another attack on our candidate by his political foes. Mr. Lillevig did not explicitly state, not did he intend to imply, that the drive was mounted label side up. Given that there is technically not a "wrong way" to mount a drive, Mr. Lillevig was, in fact, correct in his statement that his drive was mounted "right side up".
__________________
"I'm just one story in a two story town." Bon Jovi
lillevig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2012, 01:48 PM   #29
lillevig
Hot in West Texas
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: San Angelo, TX
Posts: 1,760
Quote:
Originally Posted by L David Matheny View Post
This is more humor, of course. There have been some chuckles in this thread recently. But, people: Don't quit your day jobs to go into standup comedy.
Good. My day job is being retired and I'd hate to give that up.
__________________
"I'm just one story in a two story town." Bon Jovi
lillevig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2012, 03:36 PM   #30
steve614
what ru lookin at?
 
steve614's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,722
This is like a debate some electricians get into.
Whether a receptacle is supposed to be mounted ground up or ground down when installed vertically.
__________________
The Man Prayer: I'm a man ...... I can change ...... If I have to ...... I guess.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

F*CK CANCER!
steve614 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Forum Jump




Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Advertisements

TiVo Community
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media

(C) 2013 Magenium Solutions - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVoŽ is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not owned or operated by TiVo Inc.
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:48 PM.
OUR NETWORK: MyOpenRouter | TechLore | SansaCommunity | RoboCommunity | MediaSmart Home | Explore3DTV | Dijit Community | DVR Playground |