TiVo Community
TiVo Community
TiVo Community
Go Back   TiVo Community > TiVo TV Talk > Now Playing - TV Show Talk
TiVo Community
Reply
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-19-2012, 09:06 AM   #1
aadam101
Future Prez of ABC
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: North of Boston
Posts: 6,997
Community: Dan Harmon is out

http://www.eonline.com/news/dan_harm..._longer/317605

Well this sucks.
__________________
A passing grade? Like a C? Why don't I just get pregnant at a bus station!
aadam101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2012, 09:12 AM   #2
tiams
Registered User
 
tiams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,362
http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-al...out-dan-harmon


Sepinwall's thoughts
tiams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2012, 10:02 AM   #3
photoshopgrl
Nerd Fashionista
 
photoshopgrl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Boring Ohio
Posts: 3,775

__________________
~Cristina~
There ain't no me if there ain't no you.
photoshopgrl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2012, 10:23 AM   #4
cmontyburns
Excellent.
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 9,925
We were talking about this in the Upfronts sticky, too, where the possibility was first mentioned a few days ago. I posted this there as well, but here's Dan Harmon's response to this on his tumblr:

http://danharmon.tumblr.com/
cmontyburns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2012, 10:53 AM   #5
DevdogAZ
Give em Hell, Devils
 
DevdogAZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Arizona
Posts: 37,875
Sounds to me like Harmon is quite an a-hole, but he made a brilliant show that I love, so he'll be missed.

But from a business standpoint, I'm not sure I can fault Sony for what they did. It sucks, but business is business.
__________________
"You don't own a TV? What's all your furniture pointed at?" Joey Tribbiani
DevdogAZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2012, 01:22 PM   #6
TheMerk
Always Bid First
 
TheMerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 2,097
Hoping that the show can continue with the esoteric humor and not be morphed into a cookie cutter sitcom.
__________________
Adam

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
/
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
/
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
/
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



TheMerk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2012, 01:39 PM   #7
Neenahboy
Grad stud(ent)
 
Neenahboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 16,072
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevdogAZ View Post
Sounds to me like Harmon is quite an a-hole, but he made a brilliant show that I love, so he'll be missed.

But from a business standpoint, I'm not sure I can fault Sony for what they did. It sucks, but business is business.
I'm just not clear on why Sony would risk the show's small entrenched following this late in the game if it's so hell-bent on getting it to syndication, unless it has a gentleman's agreement with NBC that ensured firing Harmon would make it happen regardless.
__________________
I'm collecting My Coke Rewards codes. PM me if you have any you aren't using.
Neenahboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2012, 02:14 PM   #8
marksman
ID-10-T
 
marksman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 16,781
The show is totally dead then...

He was the vision behind the show they made it take a core cast of characters and fill them into all these different worlds and realms. This seems absurd to me if they try to keep the show going.
marksman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2012, 02:21 PM   #9
tiams
Registered User
 
tiams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,362
I'm out.
tiams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2012, 02:23 PM   #10
TheMerk
Always Bid First
 
TheMerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 2,097
It's an elaborate scheme to make this the darkest timeline.
__________________
Adam

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
/
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
/
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
/
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



TheMerk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2012, 02:28 PM   #11
marksman
ID-10-T
 
marksman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 16,781
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevdogAZ View Post
Sounds to me like Harmon is quite an a-hole, but he made a brilliant show that I love, so he'll be missed.

But from a business standpoint, I'm not sure I can fault Sony for what they did. It sucks, but business is business.
But I don't get it as a business decision. Community was borderline renewal in the first place.

I am a bit shocked that NBC was okay with this, but then again in the NBC thread I specifically mentioned that NBC need broader based comedies to reach a wider audience and this certainly will become much broader. I just don't see how it will attract many new viewers after it has developed its own reputation.

Not sure I care about a Welcome Back Kotteresque Community.

Seems to me NBC should just cancel it then then trying to completely reboot a show that barely got renewed.
marksman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2012, 03:23 PM   #12
cmontyburns
Excellent.
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 9,925
Quote:
Originally Posted by marksman View Post
Seems to me NBC should just cancel it then then trying to completely reboot a show that barely got renewed.
"Reboot" is probably a bit strong... we have no idea what the new showrunners have in mind. The problem is that even if they want to continue to make exactly the kind of show that Community has been, likely they won't be able to. Dan Harmon is just too unique.

My understanding is that Harmon has a pretty spotty record as a showrunner (late delivery, over budget, and so on). Obviously creating the vision for a show and delivering on the vision are coupled, but it seems like they could have at least explored replacing him as showrunner for the basic blocking and tackling stuff, on which they no doubt weren't too happy with him, and left him as the chief creative voice. It's a shame they just blew him off entirely.
cmontyburns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2012, 03:55 PM   #13
DevdogAZ
Give em Hell, Devils
 
DevdogAZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Arizona
Posts: 37,875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neenahboy

I'm just not clear on why Sony would risk the show's small entrenched following this late in the game if it's so hell-bent on getting it to syndication, unless it has a gentleman's agreement with NBC that ensured firing Harmon would make it happen regardless.
Here's my thinking: the show just got a 13 episode order. With Harmon on board, it would almost ensure that those were the final 13 episodes, since nobody can stand working with him. However, if they replace Harmon, maybe they can convince NBC to order the back 9, and once there is a full 4 seasons, we've all seen what Sony will do to get their sitcoms to syndication (see 'Til Death). So basically, there's no economic downside to letting Harmon go, and there is a potential upside.

I'll agree that there is definitely a creative downside to letting him go, but if the show ends after 13 more episodes and those episodes are slightly lower in quality, does that really matter in the grand scheme of things?
__________________
"You don't own a TV? What's all your furniture pointed at?" Joey Tribbiani
DevdogAZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2012, 03:56 PM   #14
marksman
ID-10-T
 
marksman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 16,781
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmontyburns

"Reboot" is probably a bit strong... we have no idea what the new showrunners have in mind. The problem is that even if they want to continue to make exactly the kind of show that Community has been, likely they won't be able to. Dan Harmon is just too unique.

My understanding is that Harmon has a pretty spotty record as a showrunner (late delivery, over budget, and so on). Obviously creating the vision for a show and delivering on the vision are coupled, but it seems like they could have at least explored replacing him as showrunner for the basic blocking and tackling stuff, on which they no doubt weren't too happy with him, and left him as the chief creative voice. It's a shame they just blew him off entirely.
Yeah seeing more stuff he was not a details guy it seems but should have had someone minding the office for him.

It is unfortunate that everyone working on the show essentially left with this decision. I guess it does come down to business. If community had a 4.0 or heck a 2.3 on NBC he would still be there.

I realize Sony is heading towards syndication and any sort of creative continuity is wholly unnecessary i just think for the place the show is renewing it does not make sense. NBC needs broader sitcoms but not ones they took after being niche comedies for three years.

I am sure Sony is making it cheap for NBC but as I noted in the NBC thread they can not afford to make decisions based on short term financial goals.

I appreciate the unique creative voice provided by Community but I am also a logical pragmatist who runs their own businesses. So this outcome conflicts me greatly. I really would have been better off if they did not renew the show.

I could say I will just not watch it but sitcoms are the genre I love most and it is almost impossible I would stop watching even if it were bad.

By the way I do not think it will be bad, I just think it will be so different as to be a completely different show. I don't really want the new guys to try and imitate the first three seasons, they need their own voice. I just hope they both were true fans of the show and get it so they can at least weave in a bit of a homage to the first few seasons.
__________________
I Support Global Warming!
marksman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2012, 04:13 PM   #15
aadam101
Future Prez of ABC
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: North of Boston
Posts: 6,997
I assume this has no bearing on the Comedy Central deal but I would be pretty pissed if I was Comedy Central right now. They paid for this show because it was quirky and EXTREMELY unique. They might not get that now.
__________________
A passing grade? Like a C? Why don't I just get pregnant at a bus station!
aadam101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2012, 04:21 PM   #16
DevdogAZ
Give em Hell, Devils
 
DevdogAZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Arizona
Posts: 37,875
Quote:
Originally Posted by aadam101
I assume this has no bearing on the Comedy Central deal but I would be pretty pissed if I was Comedy Central right now. They paid for this show because it was quirky and EXTREMELY unique. They might not get that now.
I think Comedy Central paid for rerun rights because they thought they'd be able to make money by airing the reruns. I don't think that changes with the departure of Harmon.
__________________
"You don't own a TV? What's all your furniture pointed at?" Joey Tribbiani
DevdogAZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2012, 04:25 PM   #17
trainman
Nice to see you
 
trainman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Sherman Oaks, CA, USA
Posts: 9,301
As is the case with all American sitcoms, it's not as if every single word of dialogue flowed directly from Dan Harmon's magic pen into the actors' mouths.

There's no reason to assume that the new showrunners will completely clean house, which means some of the writing staff from this past season will remain, and they should be completely capable of keeping up the quirkiness on their end.

So I'm willing to give next season's episodes the benefit of the doubt.
__________________
trainman is
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
trainman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2012, 04:31 PM   #18
Zevida
witless and unarmed
 
Zevida's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 13,156
The article said the main writing staff is gone too.

Or maybe it was Sepinwall's article that said it but it means all the voices that drove the show are gone.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- billypritchard
Zevida is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2012, 04:39 PM   #19
Neenahboy
Grad stud(ent)
 
Neenahboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 16,072
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevdogAZ View Post
Here's my thinking: the show just got a 13 episode order. With Harmon on board, it would almost ensure that those were the final 13 episodes, since nobody can stand working with him. However, if they replace Harmon, maybe they can convince NBC to order the back 9, and once there is a full 4 seasons, we've all seen what Sony will do to get their sitcoms to syndication (see 'Til Death). So basically, there's no economic downside to letting Harmon go, and there is a potential upside.
If that's true, then I think Sony is drastically overestimating the show's potential to build a mainstream audience while simultaneously recouping the percentage of viewers that will probably flee (probably not a great amount, but an amount all the same, especially when you're talking about a niche show like this). I equate it to Cougar Town's lack of title change: they had their chance after S1 and failed, just as Sony had its chance to sever ties with Harmon after S2 and didn't, thereby foregoing any meaningful effort at redefining the show.

The bottom line is that both Sony and NBC have created a huge mess that the show will ultimately suffer dearly from. There's obviously more to the story, because reality dictates that NBC had little incentive to renew the show beyond it being insanely cheap and not wanting to piss off Sony, so was it a lack of guts on Greenblatt's part or something more? Given the insane pilot season and NBC's dramatic fall retooling, one more show would've been nothing. If they didn't want to deal with Harmon (and clearly they didn't), they should've canceled the damn thing and come out looking infinitely better from a PR perspective than they do right now. This is largely Sony's mess, but NBC will unfairly be left to pick up most of the pieces.
__________________
I'm collecting My Coke Rewards codes. PM me if you have any you aren't using.
Neenahboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2012, 06:06 PM   #20
Gunnyman
Super FunBall
 
Gunnyman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Greenville SC
Posts: 29,498
So much for #sixseasonsandamovie

I don't think the show survives without Harmon
__________________
It's a sociological cornucopia of silliness.
Gamertag: GGwallen
Gunnyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2012, 06:08 PM   #21
marksman
ID-10-T
 
marksman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 16,781
Quote:
Originally Posted by trainman View Post
As is the case with all American sitcoms, it's not as if every single word of dialogue flowed directly from Dan Harmon's magic pen into the actors' mouths.

There's no reason to assume that the new showrunners will completely clean house, which means some of the writing staff from this past season will remain, and they should be completely capable of keeping up the quirkiness on their end.

So I'm willing to give next season's episodes the benefit of the doubt.
Yeah as Z noted, most of the main writers are gone. They approached the remaining senior writing about taking over and he essentially quit. There is nobody there to continue the voice at this point. Given that it would be a mistake for people who were never in the room to try and recreate it.

If anyone wants a good listen check out if you can still listen to Harmon when he was on Marc Maron's WTF Podcast. I found it very interesting. I believe it is episode 179 of WTF. Harmon explains how the show essentially came into existence and why they do the things they do. It is something that he essentially borrowed on and expanded from someone who was doing shorts, but clearly his vision impacted every episode.

Sepinwall's article does a very good job of explaining how other control freak show runners essentially do impact every word out of every character's mouth. Harmon's own admission on his blog is he was the same way. So there was little going on Community that did not pass through Harmon.

I realize in a more traditional setting it would be easy to transition, but it becomes more difficult when a single person is so responsible for so much that is going on.

I am also pissed that they will probably be nice to Chevy Chase. That probably pisses me off the most.
marksman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2012, 06:17 PM   #22
marksman
ID-10-T
 
marksman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 16,781
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevdogAZ View Post
I think Comedy Central paid for rerun rights because they thought they'd be able to make money by airing the reruns. I don't think that changes with the departure of Harmon.
Yeah I don't think this stuff has any real impact on syndication deals. People will either watch the show or will not watch the show in syndication. If the show takes a total left turn halfway through its life that still won't matter much to syndication.

I suspect the average viewer who might casually turn into an episode of Community on CC would not even notice that much difference. Although I realize now the CC deal is bad because I watch Comedy Central and I am just going to be pissed every time I see a commercial for the show.

To me Community is one of the most unique sitcoms to exist in my lifetime. That it came into existence at the absolute lowest point in the history of Sitcoms in television is even more amazing. I am just disappointed, a lot. The networks are full of funny new sitcoms, but they are all very traditional compared to what Community offered. Even on a single camera edge the show was above and beyond different.

The thing that makes me laugh most with upfronts and pilots and all that talk... I realized a few years ago to not spend ANY time reading descriptions of pilots of new shows as it is worthless. I could never tell if I would like a show from a paragraph description. Perhaps an actor or a writer/creator might pique my interest, but just a description was meaningless.

I have a vague recollection of the paragraph blurb about Community and I remembered how it sounded relatively stupid and also unsustainable. Yet it was done in a ridiculous way that they could have gone on for ten years. I suspect Dan Harmon would have had all the characters die before graduate from Community College.

Also it is pretty chicken S how Sony and NBC dealt with Harmon. I believe what he says on this front because that is how tv works. They are filled with chicken s executives who would never call to explain their actions to anyone. It has to be an excruciating business to be in. They could have at least left a note on his car in the parking garage saying "You're Not Rehired! - Donald 'Chand' Trump"
marksman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2012, 06:35 PM   #23
astrohip
Stuart F
 
astrohip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Houston & Brenham TX
Posts: 7,391
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevdogAZ View Post
I'll agree that there is definitely a creative downside to letting him go, but if the show ends after 13 more episodes and those episodes are slightly lower in quality, does that really matter in the grand scheme of things?
A slight uptick/downtick in quality probably isn't noticeable by the average viewer (but note Community doesn't have many average viewers).

What would be missed is the incredibly weird and quirky episodes that it's become known for. The animated ones, the claymation ones, the parodies of movies and other shows, yada yada. There is nothing remotely close to what Community gives us every week. It's not always a winner, but it IS different. And (IMHO) it's usually very very good.


Quote:
Originally Posted by trainman View Post
As is the case with all American sitcoms, it's not as if every single word of dialogue flowed directly from Dan Harmon's magic pen into the actors' mouths.

There's no reason to assume that the new showrunners will completely clean house, which means some of the writing staff from this past season will remain, and they should be completely capable of keeping up the quirkiness on their end.

So I'm willing to give next season's episodes the benefit of the doubt.
I think most of us are willing to give it a try. And as loyal viewers, we're praying it's close to what it was under Dan.

The top two writers left for a showrunner deal with FOX. The remaining head writer quit when they fired Dan. They're now down to the steno pool for fresh ideas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marksman View Post
To me Community is one of the most unique sitcoms to exist in my lifetime.
This.
astrohip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2012, 09:47 PM   #24
aadam101
Future Prez of ABC
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: North of Boston
Posts: 6,997
Quote:
Originally Posted by marksman View Post

To me Community is one of the most unique sitcoms to exist in my lifetime.
I agree. I just caught on to this show a few months ago. I have watched the entire series twice already (and probably going to zip through it a third time). I don't love every episode but I have to give them credit for doing something that is completely unique and pulling it off so well.
__________________
A passing grade? Like a C? Why don't I just get pregnant at a bus station!
aadam101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2012, 10:40 PM   #25
smak
TV MA SLV
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: NoHo, CA USA
Posts: 15,999
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevdogAZ View Post
Here's my thinking: the show just got a 13 episode order. With Harmon on board, it would almost ensure that those were the final 13 episodes, since nobody can stand working with him.
Who's nobody? Besides Chevy Chase?

-smak-
smak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2012, 10:59 PM   #26
aadam101
Future Prez of ABC
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: North of Boston
Posts: 6,997
Quote:
Originally Posted by smak View Post
Who's nobody? Besides Chevy Chase?

-smak-
Many members of the cast tweeted messages of support for Harmon today. It seems the main cast likes him. I do have to wonder about Glover's new song with lyrics saying he hopes the "show gets cancelled". No idea if that has anything to do with Harmon.
__________________
A passing grade? Like a C? Why don't I just get pregnant at a bus station!
aadam101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2012, 11:26 PM   #27
ElJay
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,879
I hope this means fewer episodes about blanket and/or pillow forts.
ElJay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2012, 12:31 AM   #28
aadam101
Future Prez of ABC
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: North of Boston
Posts: 6,997
The problem with a show like this is that there is nothing else like it on TV. It's damn near perfect in every way as far as I'm concerned. Losing the creator and show runner is a huge deal.

It doesn't seem that NBC wants to keep the show the same. I don't blame them. The ratings are terrible. I am actually glad it's only a 13 episode season. Hopefully they can just wrap things up and not ruin it.
__________________
A passing grade? Like a C? Why don't I just get pregnant at a bus station!
aadam101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2012, 01:54 AM   #29
Jesda
CAPTAIN AWESOME
 
Jesda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The Middle
Posts: 12,555
I didn't understand half of what was going on anyway. Seasons 1 and 3 were good. Season 2 was a bunch of lame movie parodies. Too many episodes relied on outside references for humor.

Season 3 returned to the core storyline while still being whimsical.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


My blog:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Jesda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2012, 09:52 AM   #30
cheesesteak
Meh.
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: 15 mins from Philly
Posts: 25,546
He should have been fired (and punched in the face) for the last two seasons of Chang.
__________________

A Cheesesteak always pays its debts
cheesesteak is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply
Forum Jump




Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Advertisements

TiVo Community
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media

(C) 2013 Magenium Solutions - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVoŽ is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not owned or operated by TiVo Inc.
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:24 AM.
OUR NETWORK: MyOpenRouter | TechLore | SansaCommunity | RoboCommunity | MediaSmart Home | Explore3DTV | Dijit Community | DVR Playground |