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Old 05-20-2013, 09:51 PM   #1
bradleys
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Xbox 720 Cable TV DVR functionality

This may be real competition for TiVo. If the Xbox 720 has DVR functionality it will have the market reach to outperform TiVo. Add a cable card - or better yet push for a decryption over IP solution and the die will be cast.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/4/10/42...tainment-plans

I have been thinking Microsoft would go in this direction for a while. Console gaming is on the decline. In order to stay relevant the Xbox and other gaming consoles need to be the "epicenter" of the family room.
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Old 05-20-2013, 10:12 PM   #2
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Console gaming is on the decline.
Microsoft would disagree:

Spoiler:
However they've been steadily working on worming their way into the living room for many years. There are currently 47 media streaming apps available to run on the Xbox 360.
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Old 05-20-2013, 10:21 PM   #3
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http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/09/tech/g...le-gaming-dead

I didn't say gaming was declining, I said console gaming is in decline. And it is, the mobile gaming platforms are steeling market share from the dedicated console platforms.

Using my own kids as a case study. The Xbox 360 sits unused in the game room while they tap away on their phones and tablets. I will not be purchasing an Xbox 720 as a gaming device.

All the console providers know very well that a dedicated gaming unit is dead.
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Old 05-20-2013, 11:48 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by bradleys View Post
http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/09/tech/g...le-gaming-dead

I didn't say gaming was declining, I said console gaming is in decline. And it is, the mobile gaming platforms are steeling market share from the dedicated console platforms.

Using my own kids as a case study. The Xbox 360 sits unused in the game room while they tap away on their phones and tablets. I will not be purchasing an Xbox 720 as a gaming device.

All the console providers know very well that a dedicated gaming unit is dead.
I don't think that there's any real evidence of that being true and I don't think that the console providers "know" any such thing. Mobile gaming cannot ever equal the level of immersion possible with a console or PC, your kids' gaming preferences to the contrary.

Sales of the consoles as hardware are in decline but all of the products other than Wii U have been on the market for 6.5 (PS3) to 7.5 (Xbox 360) years; the market is saturated and I imagine that most current gen consoles are sold as replacements for worn out ones.
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Old 05-21-2013, 07:08 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleys View Post
This may be real competition for TiVo. If the Xbox 720 has DVR functionality it will have the market reach to outperform TiVo. Add a cable card - or better yet push for a decryption over IP solution and the die will be cast.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/4/10/42...tainment-plans

I have been thinking Microsoft would go in this direction for a while. Console gaming is on the decline. In order to stay relevant the Xbox and other gaming consoles need to be the "epicenter" of the family room.
This is another attempt at Google TV with HDMI passthrough, it does not have Cablecard support and will not be a local storage DVR. Guess we'll find out for sure today, but the new Xbox will not replace a Tivo - cloud-based DVRs don't count IMO (assuming it even has that, which I doubt).
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Old 05-21-2013, 09:14 AM   #6
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The functionality will work by taking a cable box signal and passing it through to the Xbox via HDMI, allowing Microsoft's console to overlay a UI and features on top of an existing TV channel or set-top box.
On the face of this, it sounds similar to how the Series 2 TiVo's worked.

I suspect the integration is better... The delay of an IR blaster won't cut it in today's market.

But I agree, unless the Xbox can bypass the cablebox and add multiple tuners, etc.. I won't be in direct competition with TiVo.

I just wonder if that is the next step? Maybe an add on tuner apliance with local storage?

I will be interested to see how they present it.
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Old 05-21-2013, 03:12 PM   #7
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Looking at what they showed at their "reveal" they are emphasizing "living room entertainment media hub" rather than "ultimate console gaming platform" (though they are claiming to be that as well). This is the complete opposite of Sony's tact at their reveal, which emphasized gaming capabilities. Apparently Sony's stock took a nice little bump after the Xbox One reveal whereas MS' took a tiny dip. E3 is in a few weeks; it'll be interesting to see how the message of each company will evolve over that period.
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Old 05-21-2013, 03:50 PM   #8
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I'm wondering how this would work with Tivo. I don't think it would. Pretty sure the Premiere doesn't have HDMI control abilities.
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Old 05-21-2013, 06:50 PM   #9
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The reports are that it will work with most DVRs using an IR Blaster and some newer DVRs via HDMI control.
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Old 05-21-2013, 09:50 PM   #10
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Ugh, step backwards..
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Old 05-22-2013, 03:02 PM   #11
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I wonder how it would work with a cable card equiped HTPC setup.
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Old 05-22-2013, 03:04 PM   #12
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I wonder how it would work with a cable card equiped HTPC setup.
Better off just using it as an extender at that point. (the 360 can already do this)
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Old 05-22-2013, 03:14 PM   #13
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I am just thinking with Media Center no longer in development, a simple HTPC with cablecard could supply the tuners and drive space. The XBOX would provide the remaining functionality.
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Old 05-22-2013, 03:35 PM   #14
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Since it doesn't sound as though this gives you the DVR (or even cable tuner) functionality, what's the point? You might as well use the DVR or cable/sat box that you have to have directly. Sure, you can do some cute things like watch TV with someone in another location with a Skype window in the corner, but is it worth having a second appliance drawing 100W?

This was a pretty bad product reveal which leaves us completely unclear as to who this product is aimed at. It's way the hell overpowered and no doubt overpriced as an entertainment box (and they're rumored to be bringing a $100 DVD-less Xbox 360 to market to compete with the streaming STBs). If it's not primarily a gaming machine then it doesn't have a market. Yet they hardly gave us a glimpse of its gaming capability at the reveal. Serious screw up--marketing heads should roll. Maybe they can fix it at E3 in a few weeks.
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Old 05-22-2013, 04:30 PM   #15
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The whole HDMI pass-through thing is a nightmare. I predict that this thing is a runaway success as a gaming console, and for Kinect Skype in 1080p, and no one uses the HDMI pass-through.
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Old 05-22-2013, 04:35 PM   #16
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The whole HDMI pass-through thing is a nightmare. I predict that this thing is a runaway success as a gaming console, and for Kinect Skype in 1080p, and no one uses the HDMI pass-through.
Maybe, I suppose it depends on what it can do. I can envision a little open source magic that will allow you to connect to a HTPC and really turn this into a full DVR.

I could be wrong - I haven't touched it and we do not have a lot of details, but if it can work with cable company DVR's it doesn't take much of a stretch of the imagination other scenerios.

With enough market share and interest, the developer community can be pretty creative.
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Old 05-22-2013, 04:39 PM   #17
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I am just thinking with Media Center no longer in development, a simple HTPC with cablecard could supply the tuners and drive space. The XBOX would provide the remaining functionality.
MCE is the only HTPC software that supports CableCARD so unless that changes you'll be using MCE one way or the other.
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Old 05-22-2013, 06:54 PM   #18
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Maybe, I suppose it depends on what it can do. I can envision a little open source magic that will allow you to connect to a HTPC and really turn this into a full DVR.

I could be wrong - I haven't touched it and we do not have a lot of details, but if it can work with cable company DVR's it doesn't take much of a stretch of the imagination other scenerios.

With enough market share and interest, the developer community can be pretty creative.
Apparently it requires a more flexible imagination than mine to imagine anything vaguely useful or compelling to do with it. So it can control devices and display their HDMI output. Why wouldn't I simply control such devices directly?

The more I consider this box the less I want it. I've heard that it can't operate without it's Kinect plugged in, whose microphone is always on so that it can respond to "Xbox On". I've been a huge Xbox fan in the past but maybe not going forward.
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Old 05-22-2013, 07:13 PM   #19
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A lot of work for little pay off. Need a 1 box on-demand ( DVR) solution or nothing.

You will do better just using your phone for all the side tasks they showed off.
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Old 05-22-2013, 09:57 PM   #20
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While I think the idea of controlling the DVR sounds error prone (almost as bad as IR blasting to control a separate cable box), the idea of HDMI pass through sounds good to me.

I liked the ability to just have one coax cable into a VCR then into the TV (yes I know you get only mono sound this way), and then just use the TV/VCR switch to "turn off the VCR" (but it can really still record), and get the signal through to the TV.

I now use an XS32 as my main 'switcher' since it's faster than switching inputs on the TV (why? probably a tiny bit HDMI setup time, but not all), and it's convenient to be able to record to the XS32 that way.
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Old 05-23-2013, 07:44 AM   #21
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But the problem is that you have to use Tivo UI for almost everything, the Xbox HDMI interface is only good for watching live TV. For most of us, that's useless.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/21/43...from-google-tv
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Old 05-23-2013, 07:56 AM   #22
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But the problem is that you have to use Tivo UI for almost everything, the Xbox HDMI interface is only good for watching live TV. For most of us, that's useless.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/21/43...from-google-tv
If they truly can only use the XBOne with Live TV then they are crazy. Live TV use is waning. I certainly would not to want to go back to watching live TV like I did before I got a VCR in 1984. This is 2013. What is the point of watching live TV.
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Old 05-23-2013, 12:15 PM   #23
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If they truly can only use the XBOne with Live TV then they are crazy. Live TV use is waning. I certainly would not to want to go back to watching live TV like I did before I got a VCR in 1984. This is 2013. What is the point of watching live TV.
The demonstaration showed lots of sports with fantasy team integration. My impression is that more people watch sports live than most other types of programming.

But now that I'm thinking about it I wonder how that fantasy integration would work even with DirectTV/Dish, much less a DVR. Does the One have some way to know from the video stream how much of a signal delay you might have? Or are you going to be getting fantasy updates 5 seconds before sat TV shows you the relivant play (or 20+ minutes before you see it on your DVR; if you were buffering enough to skip all commericials)
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Old 05-23-2013, 03:53 PM   #24
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The demonstaration showed lots of sports with fantasy team integration. My impression is that more people watch sports live than most other types of programming.

But now that I'm thinking about it I wonder how that fantasy integration would work even with DirectTV/Dish, much less a DVR. Does the One have some way to know from the video stream how much of a signal delay you might have? Or are you going to be getting fantasy updates 5 seconds before sat TV shows you the relivant play (or 20+ minutes before you see it on your DVR; if you were buffering enough to skip all commericials)
The satellite lag isn't enough to matter. It's like a second. Even that sort of use case seems like a stretch at best.
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