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Old 05-27-2015, 09:52 PM   #1
postal
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Please help! Tivo connection issues, at my wit's end

I have had one version or another of Tivo since 1999 generally without problems (until a massive Premiere crash), and currently run a Premiere, a Roamio basic, and two Minis connected to the Roamio.
The Premiere and Roamio have been connected for a while via MoCa with no issues using my FIOS Actiontec router/modem. The first Mini was added about 6 months ago with no issue. The 2nd Mini was added a month ago with no issue as well.
Last week we abruptly lost power for about an hour. When power came back on everything seemed fine, at least until we turned on the TV's with the Mini's attached. At that point we could see that they were no longer connected via MoCa and the connections could not be reestablished. Subsequent checking showed that the Roamio had lost connection as well as the Premiere. The Actiontec MoCa adapters had all 3 green lights on, but it was like the MoCa option didn't exist according to the Tivo's. I tried multiple resets and everything else I could think of to no avail. I eventually spent two hours on the phone with Verizon since it seemed likely to me that the problem was on their end rather than all the Tivos having issues simultaneously. You can imagine how worthless that entire 2 hour conversation ended up being. They eventually agreed to send me a new router to try.
While I was waiting on the new router, I connected the Roamio wirelessly with no issues, but the Minis would never connect. I got the new router today and changed it out with the old one. I powered everything down and reset everything. Now things are even worse. Not only are there no options to connect via MoCa, but I can't get the Roamio to connect to the Tivo service either wirelessly or via ethernet. It will connect to the internet, but not the service. Depending on what I am trying I get N13 or N33 errors. I don't see any indication on my router that any ports are blocked. When I have the Roamio connected via wifi and it will start to connect to the Tivo service, including setting the clock and checking my account status. After that it will download for a bit and then fail. When connected via ethernet, it fails while trying to connect and gives the N13 error.
My current (and former) connection involves the cable coming out of the living room wall into a splitter with one leg going to the Verizon cable modem and the other leg going to the Roamio (or the MoCa adapter when it worked). The ethernet cable runs from the cable modem to a powered switch which is connected to the Roamio, and Xbox 360, and Xbox One. Keep in mind that the setup had worked for over a year with the two Tivos and over a month in it's final configuration including the two Minis. Nothing changed in the system. Maybe the power outage had something to do with it, or maybe that was just an odd coincidence. Either way, the result is the same, I have a lot of expensive, useless Tivos, and the natives are getting restless.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

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Old 05-27-2015, 11:06 PM   #2
UCLABB
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Have you tried taking the powered Ethernet switch out of the equation?

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Old 05-27-2015, 11:26 PM   #3
telemark
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Do you have a laptop at home, you can test the network and Internet with?
What OS? Does it have an ethernet port?

If you wire all the Tivos via ethernet: You can go around to the places where the Tivos are and test the connection with the Laptop. You'll eventually figure out what part of the setup is misbehaving.

If you can't do all Ethernet, all MoCA is also decent. In that scenario, you would check the MoCA signal quality on one of the Tivo Network Status screens. You should see 5 nodes. 2xMini, 2xTivo, MoCA bridge on the router.

I don't recommend Wifi in anyone's setup except for devices that move. (iphone, Tablets).

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Old 05-28-2015, 06:31 PM   #4
postal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UCLABB View Post
Have you tried taking the powered Ethernet switch out of the equation?
I don't have a cable long enough at the moment to try it without the switch. However, I don't think the switch is the issue since everything else plugged into it work with no problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by telemark View Post
Do you have a laptop at home, you can test the network and Internet with?
What OS? Does it have an ethernet port?

I have a Windows 7 laptop I can use to check the Roamio ethernet connection at least

If you wire all the Tivos via ethernet: You can go around to the places where the Tivos are and test the connection with the Laptop. You'll eventually figure out what part of the setup is misbehaving.

The Roamio is the only Tivo close enough to connect via ethernet

If you can't do all Ethernet, all MoCA is also decent. In that scenario, you would check the MoCA signal quality on one of the Tivo Network Status screens. You should see 5 nodes. 2xMini, 2xTivo, MoCA bridge on the router.

I can't get any of the Tivos to even recognize MoCa as an option. That's what started this mess.

I don't recommend Wifi in anyone's setup except for devices that move. (iphone, Tablets).
I don't intend to use wireless for the Tivos and haven't since the days of the wireless G adapters. I only tried wireless to see if I could get a connection

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Old 05-28-2015, 06:40 PM   #5
UCLABB
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What do you mean by not getting the tivos to recognize moca as an option? Should be there under Settings, Network, change network setting. You then get four choices depending on what you have previously chosen.

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Old 05-28-2015, 07:45 PM   #6
postal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UCLABB View Post
What do you mean by not getting the tivos to recognize moca as an option? Should be there under Settings, Network, change network setting. You then get four choices depending on what you have previously chosen.
I only have "Ethernet" and "Wireless" showing as options on the Roamio when trying to change the network setting. Might have to come up with a longer ethernet cable and take the switch out of the equation, although it works fine for the Xboxes. But at least that would rule out one more possible failure point.

I did just connect the Premiere to a powerline ethernet adapter and it made a successful call. Or at least it appears successful, but is taking forever to load the data. Only 3 days of guide data left so that may explain the delay.

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Old 05-28-2015, 08:21 PM   #7
postal
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When the Roamio is connected via ethernet (and switch) I get the N13 error with the ports reference when I try to connect to the Tivo service. However, when I choose the Test Internet Connection under Network Diagnostics, the test completes successfully. That being said, although all of the things like Pandora, Amazon, Netflix, etc are available and not greyed out; none of them work.

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Old 05-28-2015, 08:25 PM   #8
UCLABB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by postal View Post
I only have "Ethernet" and "Wireless" showing as options on the Roamio when trying to change the network setting. Might have to come up with a longer ethernet cable and take the switch out of the equation, although it works fine for the Xboxes. But at least that would rule out one more possible failure point.

I did just connect the Premiere to a powerline ethernet adapter and it made a successful call. Or at least it appears successful, but is taking forever to load the data. Only 3 days of guide data left so that may explain the delay.
Yeah, I guess the TiVo knows that you don't have a working moca so it doesn't give the option. You might try this: maybe one of the moca adapters is bad so try and downsize the moca network and say exchange the adapter with the premiere with the one at your router modem.

If the powered Ethernet is working for other devices then thTs not the problem. You might try switching the ports as a shot in the dark.

I'm not being a lot of help here, I hope someone with more expertise jumps in.

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Old 05-28-2015, 08:33 PM   #9
telemark
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What are the model numbers of the two routers/modems you have access to?

1x Roamio Basic
2x Mini
1x Premiere, what kind?
?x MoCA bridges

At this point you're basically building it up from scratch.

Start with a Tivo DVR on Ethernet. If it's not reliable, copy down the network settings to paper.
(DHCP vs Static, IP, DNS server, Subnet Mask, Router)
Enter these setting into the laptop using the same ethernet cord as the Tivo DVR.
Try surfing the internet. Run some utilities.
mtr, some dns health checker


Last edited by telemark; 05-28-2015 at 08:46 PM.
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Old 05-28-2015, 08:46 PM   #10
postal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by telemark View Post
What are the model numbers of the two routers/modems you have access to?

1x Roamio Basic
2x Mini
1x Premiere, what kind?
?x MoCA bridges

The only modem is the cable modem which also serves as the router. It is an Actiontec MI424WR-GEN3I connected through Verizon FIOS.

The Premier is the standard 2-tuner version.

The Premier and the Roamio Basic were connected to the network via two Actiontec MoCA adapters.


Now that the Premiere is connected via a powerline adapter, I can compare and contrast it with the Roamio in my router settings. The Premier is identified as a Tivo and passes the packet connection test. The Roamio on the other hand is listed as "New host 6" and fails the packet connection test. All other settings appear to match (except distinct IP's). So either the Roamio isn't telling the world it is a Tivo or that switch is causing issues. Might have to make a trip to the store to get a longer ethernet cable.
All that being said, it still doesn't explain why I can't connect via MoCA on either the Premiere or the Roamio.

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Old 05-28-2015, 08:48 PM   #11
telemark
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Premiere and Roamio don't have a MoCA option because there's no MoCA built in. That's what we're talking about?
Only the Mini's would have the MoCA option.

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Old 05-28-2015, 08:51 PM   #12
postal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by telemark View Post
Premiere and Roamio don't have a MoCA option because there's no MoCA built in. That's what we're talking about?
Only the Mini's would have the MoCA option.
It's been so long since I originally set them up that I didn't remember whether the MoCA options showed up or not. Since the Basic doesn't have it built-in I would assume "ethernet" would be the option, but that doesn't work when wired directly (only a recent option) or via the MoCA adapter (how it has always been connnected)

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Old 05-28-2015, 10:36 PM   #13
telemark
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On the Premiere and Roamio the choice would be Ethernet.

I think start with the Premiere and then Mini's, since you already have reason to suspect the Roamio.

The router/modem seems to have MoCA 1.0/1.1. If you want to try that you'd have to do it from the Mini's.
Double check the router's configuration that MoCA is turned on.
Keep the bridges powered off until the Mini's work right.

To test the Roamio's network connection, you can try using the laptop, in place of the Roamio.

PS. I'm not sure what a Mini does when the 4tuner host is missing. Hopefully someone else can comment. I imagine it will still get to the diag screen which is good enough for now.


Last edited by telemark; 05-28-2015 at 11:13 PM.
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Old 05-31-2015, 11:32 AM   #14
postal
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Update: Everything is working...sort of.

As stated before, I got the Premiere working when I used a powerline adapter to hook it up instead of the MoCA adapter. But the Roamio wouldn't work when connected via MoCA, direct ethernet, or wireless. I could use certain apps that needed the internet, but could not connect to the service, and the Minis could not recognize the Roamio.
I ordered some more powerline adapters to try (I had other uses for them if it didn't help the Roamio) as an option. Received them today and immediately installed one before the switch and then from the switch to the Roamio. Still no connection to the Tivo Service (everything else worked). Switched to straight from the powerline adapter to the Roamio. Still didn't work correctly. Reset the Tivo and it connected. Added the switch back in and the Tivo stlll connected and appears fully functional. Once the Roamio was up, the Minis connected via MoCA with no issues.
So everything appears to be working but I still don't know what went wrong originally. Either two separate MoCA adapters (on separate circuits) went bad during the same power outage (unlikely), or something about the power outage was too much for some of my old coaxial somewhere in the bowels of the house. But if that was the case, it seems odd that the Mini's would connect via MoCA.

At this point it doesn't really matter. The two Tivos are connected via powerline adapters rather than MoCA and both Minis are connected to the Roamio via MoCA. It all works and my son and (most importantly) my wife are happy to have their Minis back.

Thanks for the help.

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