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Old 05-18-2013, 09:59 PM   #1
Rob Helmerichs
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Orphan Black 5/18/13 "Entangled Bank"

Well, I've come to the conclusion that this is a somewhat goofier and dumber show than I had hoped. But that's OK...it's a GOOD goofy and dumb.

They do love their classical farce, and they do it so well. And they do love not even going to Wikipedia to research their science (identical twins don't share fingerprints; I thought everybody knew that!). But it's still a lot of fun. I like that things actually move along, that people actually talk to each other. And of course Maslany continues to astonish. It's just too bad there are only two episodes left this season.
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Old 05-18-2013, 10:35 PM   #2
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Still no explanation for why the foster mother ran to this city where there are other clones. If she is Sarah's watcher, then she is an even better liar than Alison's husband -- she did a thoroughly convincing job of pretending she knew nothing about clones. Or she really knew nothing. Paul knew nothing about clones despite being a watcher, but Sarah's foster mother ran to a city with clones in it so it seems like she should know something.

In case it was not clear already, now we know for sure. Dr. Leekie is a baaaad man.

That was one of the more realistic looking hit-by-a-car scenes I have watched in quite a while. I am referring mostly to the lead up, not the actual contact (which seemed about average).

Three of the four clones got laid this episode. I guess blondes don't have more fun after all -- scientific proof.

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Old 05-18-2013, 10:40 PM   #3
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I'm not sure Sarah has a watcher...Dr. Headroom seemed surprised at her existence. And the Observatrice didn't blow her cover vis-à-vis Kira; I suspect Dr. Headroom is going to get even more interested when he finds out a clone (?) has spawned.
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Old 05-18-2013, 10:42 PM   #4
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I suspect Dr. Headroom is going to get even more interested when he finds out a clone (?) has spawned.
If Kira survives, I guess the incident will draw Leekie's attention to Kira.

Hopefully they explain that Leekie (or someone) altered the clones to make them infertile. Because there is no good reason that clones should not be able to reproduce normally unless they were intentionally altered.

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Old 05-19-2013, 06:30 AM   #5
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Hopefully they explain that Leekie (or someone) altered the clones to make them infertile. Because there is no good reason that clones should not be able to reproduce normally unless they were intentionally altered.
Although IRL clones tend to have a lot of defects, and who knows how that would be interpreted by people who think identical twins have identical fingerprints?
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Old 05-19-2013, 08:09 AM   #6
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Bad Kira! Dumb Kira!

It always catches my ear how Allison says the word "Donnie".

The street fight made me chuckle.

Looks like Mrs. S. isn't a baddie after all.

This has become one of my favorite shows. Good characters AND stuff happens every episode. Hope the ratings reflect it.
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Old 05-19-2013, 08:39 AM   #7
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Looks like Mrs. S. isn't a baddie after all.
Yeah, it's interesting how they developed the character without ever really changing anything about her...purely through perception.

This may be a dumb-science show, but it's pretty smart about people.
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Old 05-19-2013, 10:20 AM   #8
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Although IRL clones tend to have a lot of defects, and who knows how that would be interpreted by people who think identical twins have identical fingerprints?
Obviously someone in the production knows that twin fingerprints are not identical:

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Det. Angela Deangelis: Twins prints are close enough to flag a match. I mean, environmental factors like wear and tear can usually differentiate.
So the question is not whether the clones' fingerprints are identical, but whether the quality of the fingerprints that the police have is good enough, and whether their automated matching system is accurate enough to distinguish the prints.

An empirical study found that a biometrics system can reliably distinguish good-quality twin fingerprints, although they did get a larger number of false positives with twins unless they raised the threshold criterion for matching [1]. But they also conclude that:

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In large scale fingerprint based identification applications, a small degradation in authentication accuracy may imply a significant degradation in recognition accuracy.
I think we can conclude that if any of the fingerprints the police had were of poor quality, or if they have the automated matching system set to a low threshold matching criterion, then it is possible that the twins fingerprints may come up as a match. But if they gave the two sets of fingerprints to an expert to study, the expert would certainly be able to distinguish them.

Here is a picture where you can see the fingerprints of twins are similar but not identical:



[1] http://biometrics.cse.msu.edu/Public...chReport00.pdf

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Old 05-19-2013, 10:46 AM   #9
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This is tv. I'm better off not wondering too much about real world science vs. tv show science.

We got a little bit of an explanation as to what the show's title means. Orphans in the black.
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Old 05-20-2013, 08:41 AM   #10
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This is tv. I'm better off not wondering too much about real world science vs. tv show science.

We got a little bit of an explanation as to what the show's title means. Orphans in the black.
Yep, that's what I always say. I was wondering about the fingerprint thing, and I knew that would have been brought up.

So why the attraction between the kid Kira and the blonde crazy clone? I kind of got the feeling that Kira was not Sarah's daughter but hers. Maybe there's something to that.
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Old 05-20-2013, 09:44 AM   #11
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I kind of got the feeling that Kira was not Sarah's daughter but hers.
Huh? Then where is Sarah's daughter, and how did Kira get switched for her daughter without Sarah noticing?
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Old 05-20-2013, 10:15 AM   #12
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Huh? Then where is Sarah's daughter, and how did Kira get switched for her daughter without Sarah noticing?
Yeah, it seems to me that Sarah would remember not giving birth to Kira...
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Old 05-20-2013, 11:29 AM   #13
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I kind of got the feeling that Kira was not Sarah's daughter but hers.
I don't think so. I think it was just more of Helena's idea that Sarah has stolen her life.
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Old 05-20-2013, 02:12 PM   #14
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Huh? Then where is Sarah's daughter, and how did Kira get switched for her daughter without Sarah noticing?
I don't know. There's a lot about this show we don't know yet. Maybe Kira was an adopted daughter. Probably not. Anyway, I just got that vibe from her, but maybe it's just as stated, it's a jealousy thing between Sarah and her.
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Old 05-20-2013, 09:46 PM   #15
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This may be a dumb question but what year is this show supposed to take place? I have always assumed present day and haven't paid complete attention to the tech they've been using but had thought they had modern cellphones and computers. But the music has been heavily 90's stuff with Meredith Brooks' Bitch highlighted in this episode, I'm guessing the rights for those songs is cheaper than more current stuff.
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Old 05-21-2013, 02:27 PM   #16
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Yes, it's definitely present day (if not "15 minutes into the future," given the presence of Matt Frewer).

But Canada is about 15 years behind the times.
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Old 05-22-2013, 09:37 AM   #17
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And they do love not even going to Wikipedia to research their science (identical twins don't share fingerprints; I thought everybody knew that!).
I felt that they kind of caught their own mistake and tried to handwave it away in this episode with the comments about "close enough to flag a match" which is not at all adequate, but at least they're trying. Honestly, though, while I've been annoyed with this point since it first came up, it's a pretty small fumble on the scale of this show, compared to how much they haven't gotten wrong.

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This may be a dumb question but what year is this show supposed to take place? I have always assumed present day and haven't paid complete attention to the tech they've been using but had thought they had modern cellphones and computers. But the music has been heavily 90's stuff with Meredith Brooks' Bitch highlighted in this episode, I'm guessing the rights for those songs is cheaper than more current stuff.
I don't have a problem with a character like Allison listening to 90s music instead of more current stuff, really. It is odd how they've avoided anything current in general, but then, music hasn't been a big part of the show anyway. But that song was so right for that scene, it just had such the right vibe.
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Old 05-24-2013, 06:15 AM   #18
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Yes, it's definitely present day (if not "15 minutes into the future," given the presence of Matt Frewer).

But Canada is about 15 years behind the times.
yep, after all the 80's didn't reach them until 1996
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Old 05-26-2013, 02:54 PM   #19
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Article from Tvline on this episode.

http://tvline.com/2013/05/25/orphan-...r-of-the-week/

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If this episode doesn’t put Maslany on the Emmy shortlist for Outstanding Lead Actress in a Drama Series, then nobody in a genre series is ever going to stand a chance.
I'm really curious as to what her Emmy chances are. A small sci-fi show shown on Saturday night on BBC America normally wouldn't stand a chance but Tatiana Maslany has been amazing.
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Old 05-26-2013, 02:56 PM   #20
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I'm really curious as to what her Emmy chances are. A small sci-fi show shown on Saturday night on BBC America normally wouldn't stand a chance but Tatiana Maslany has been amazing.
I don't know how many times an episode I forget it's all the same actor. Even the ones that more or less look alike.
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Old 05-26-2013, 03:17 PM   #21
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I don't know how many times an episode I forget it's all the same actor. Even the ones that more or less look alike.
Spoiler:
Yeah, I can't wait to see her playing an older version of herself if, like you suggest, she's the original that all the clones were based on.

Sorry, didn't realized this was for last week's episode. Apologies to anyone who saw something they didn't want to see.

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Old 05-26-2013, 03:26 PM   #22
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Spoiler:
Yeah, I can't wait to see her playing an older version of herself if, like you suggest, she's the original that all the clones were based on.

Sorry, didn't realized this was for last week's episode. Apologies to anyone who saw something they didn't want to see.
I bumped a thread from an older episode because the TV line article was about the older episode. Thought it made the most sense to put it there.
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Old 05-26-2013, 05:41 PM   #23
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I bumped a thread from an older episode because the TV line article was about the older episode. Thought it made the most sense to put it there.
I should've paid more attention to the thread title. Totally my fault. Was a good article. Thanks for the link.
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Old 05-31-2013, 07:23 AM   #24
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Yeah, it's interesting how they developed the character without ever really changing anything about her...purely through perception.

This may be a dumb-science show, but it's pretty smart about people.
Yeah the same fingerprints refrain is a minor annoyance and the surprise that a clone reproduced even more so, but the "science" is no worse and far less obviously wrong than almost all TV and movie sci-fi.

The smart people characterizing and the superb acting with rapid plot movement (hides the holes) make the show riveting. I'm not much of a TV watcher and I love this show.
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Old 05-31-2013, 07:27 AM   #25
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Uh, don't soccer Moms often listen to music they heard while young?
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Old 05-31-2013, 07:28 AM   #26
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Yeah the same fingerprints refrain is a minor annoyance and the surprise that a clone reproduced even more so, but the "science" is no worse and far less obviously wrong than almost all TV and movie sci-fi.
True enough. It's just that a show that's as smart as this one is in other respects gave me hope that it would be equally smart in the science (after all, some day somebody has to make a show that takes science seriously! Right? Right?!?), so it was a bit of a let-down that it didn't care much more about science than Battlestar Galactica.

Still a most excellent show, however. Lucky it has enough room in its awesome to withstand a little disappointment.
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Old 05-31-2013, 02:33 PM   #27
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I'm really curious as to what her Emmy chances are. A small sci-fi show shown on Saturday night on BBC America normally wouldn't stand a chance but Tatiana Maslany has been amazing.
BBC America did run a full-page "for your consideration" ad for Tatiana Maslany in today's L.A. Times (which also served as an ad for the season finale Saturday) -- but it only showed her as Sarah-as-Beth, not any of the other characters.
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Old 05-31-2013, 03:16 PM   #28
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I don't think she has the political pull to win but would love to see her get nominated.
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Old 05-31-2013, 04:39 PM   #29
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I don't think she has the political pull to win but would love to see her get nominated.
I think it was Jim Carrey who said, "It's an honor just to...oh. [weeps]"
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Old 06-01-2013, 07:39 AM   #30
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That's not the only ad they've run. Apparently this one from the back of a plane:

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