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Old 05-25-2013, 02:27 PM   #1
tlbz
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Which TiVo model?

I'm thinking about getting a TiVo but after taking a look around I'm not sure which model would be appropriate.

Here are my criteria/situation:

A. I have a hearing loss and need closed captions to make programming accessible so I need a TiVo with closed captioning options

B. I have one HDTV (Sony Bravia 32L5000) and no plans for more

C. Minimal hard drive size would do

D. Currently I have Comcast for TV but am considering moving to FiOSTV--I have FiOS for broadband and phone


Given the above criteria, recommendations as to which TiVo model would be appropriate?

Thanks!

Terrie
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Old 05-25-2013, 02:53 PM   #2
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All of the Series 4 units will work the same for you in this scenario and have the same core features you're looking for.
If you don't feel you need 4 tuners, then the standard Premiere will do fine.
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Old 05-25-2013, 03:41 PM   #3
tlbz
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dianbrat: If you don't feel you need 4 tuners, then the standard Premiere will do fine.
Thank you! I was a bit confused by "tuners" but took a quick look at the TiVo products page and learned that it indicates the number of simultaneous recordings one can do so the Premier looks like the model for me...'-}}

Terrie

Last edited by tlbz : 05-25-2013 at 03:46 PM.
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Old 05-25-2013, 08:57 PM   #4
ThAbtO
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The Tivo Premiere models can be confusing because they all use the Premiere title.

You would need to look at the model numbers that starts with TCD.

TCD746500 = Premiere, records on 2 tuners at the same time on both analog, SD and HD. Source is Antenna (OTA), cable (analog or digital, with M cable card). Both can be connected at the same time. Stores 75 HD hours.

TCD748000 = Premiere XL, same as TCD746500 but with 150 HD hrs, THX.

TCD750500 = Premiere 4, 4 tuners to record at once, digital cable only with M cable card, 75 HD hrs.

TCD758000 = Premiere 4XL (formerly Elite), same as TCD750500, 310 HD hrs

All have closed caption capabilities on analog and digital captions, provided that the program has them. The problem is when recordings are either transferred to the Tivo from PC, that captions get "muted" but they are still there.

Most of all programs will have analog CC and DTVCC1 mostly.

For example: The Tonight Show with Jay Leno, DTVCC1 is in english, and DTVCC3 is in spanish.
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Old 05-25-2013, 11:05 PM   #5
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thabto: All have closed caption capabilities on analog and digital captions, provided that the program has them.
Thank you so much for all that detailed info on the various models. It's really helpful.

I perhaps should have gone into more detail in my initial post in this thread but instead I sort of split out the situation into a separate thread--"TiVo & FiOS TV?"--in hopes of not confusing things but I'll outline a bit of it here.

As I noted in my initial post, I've been considering switching to FiOStv (from Comcast) but with FiOS stb's, only digital closed caption option "1" displays closed captions and none of the other digital closed caption options (2-6) display captions. The display quality of option 1 is very, very bad--I use option 3 or 4 on my Comcast system. Verizon techs (via dslreports.com Verizon Direct forum) suggested that a TiVo using a FiOS cablecard would resolve the issue because all the TiVo's digital closed caption options display the captions.

In my other thread, I posted that I'm looking for someone who has FiOS and TiVo in hopes that they would check to see if the TiVO digital closed caption options 3 and 4 (TiVo labelled "DTVCC3" and "DTVCC4") do indeed display captions--checking during regular programming (ads are often not closed captioned) on say CBS and a PBS channel. I was also hoping I might find someone who has both TiVo and a FiOS stb who would also check for me to see if the FiOS stb overrides the TiVo closed caption option chosen (like DTVCC3 or DTVCC4) or if the FiOS stb just functions as pass-through and the captions are displayed.



>>The problem is when recordings are either transferred to the Tivo from PC, that captions get "muted" but they are still there.

That is something I never plan on doing. I don't even want a dvr. I'm only investigating this because: 1. it appears to be a possible solution to Verizon's failure to implement digital closed caption options properly--if Comcast can do it, surely Verizon can--and 2. I'm a nerd and I'm curious as to if this will work...'-}}



>>Most of all programs will have analog CC and DTVCC1 mostly.

Given use of an stb and the fact that (as I understand it), all broadcasts have moved to digital, I don't think that in the "normal" course of events that analog closed captions are actually displayed any longer BUT I do know that sometimes I have to switch from my component connection to the "TV" (RF?) connection to get the closed captions to display properly and I know that at that point, it's the TV's closed caption options (vs. the stb's) that are being used but I've never tested to see if it's the analog or the digital captions although I suspect it's the digital caption options that are in use.

For example, I can watch an episode of BBCA's Dr. Who via Comcast On Demand on Sunday, Monday or Tuesday immediately following the original broadcast on Saturday and the captions display just fine--the On Demand episode plays with the original broadcast ads and time. Starting from Wednesday on after Vitac (the captioning company) does their thing to make the episode a "true" On Demand episode--ads are different for example and there are fewer of them--the caption display is mucked up and I'd have switch from Component to TV to be able to see the captions properly.



>>For example: The Tonight Show with Jay Leno, DTVCC1 is in english, and DTVCC3 is in spanish.

That! is really quite interesting because here on the east coast (I'm in VA in the DC metro area), option 2 displays Spanish closed captions while 3-6 display captions in English. Does DTVCC2 display captions in English on your system? The pitaness of all of this is that digital closed caption option 1 is bad, bad, bad across all stb's no matter which provider. It's some sort of poor imitation of analog closed captions and no matter which user options one chooses in an attempt to make digital closed caption option 1 readable, it is an exercise in frustration because the display quality is still bad because I think the display is actually in SD not in HD.



You don't know any FiOS users who have TiVo do you? '-}}

Thank you!

Terrie

Last edited by tlbz : 05-25-2013 at 11:16 PM. Reason: add link now that I've posted 5 times...'-}}
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Old 05-26-2013, 12:04 AM   #6
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Well, Tivo is a DVR and require Tivo Service, either monthly or lifetime of the box to operate. Since you indicated that you do not need a DVR, you could consider just using the cable/FIOS's cable box.

I use Tivo to record OTA exclusively. I also use it to pause, REW/FF recordings and LIVE TV (AKA Trick play).

I have occasionally use CC (mostly either analog or DTVCC1). Sometimes I would replay a scene with CC enabled to see what kind of dialog I got. I also use Netflix streaming and since my Tivo is a Series 3 HD and not Premiere, it does not show any CC as they do not update for my model any more. Premiere has Netflix with CC options, but only what's available.

I also use a Roku in my bedroom and the Netflix app can have CC enabled for movies, TV show series, etc. Most of the CC are only in english and is displayed on the Roku in yellow letters. There are no other type settings there, so far there are only english in yellow without any background.

Years back, I have also tried audio with descriptive narrating where the audio describes the actions onscreen.

To have these options on a Tivo, CC just needs to be available for the CC channels. For descriptive narrating, that audio channel must be enabled prior to recording.
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Old 05-26-2013, 01:49 AM   #7
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Quote:
thabto: Well, Tivo is a DVR and require Tivo Service, either monthly or lifetime of the box to operate. Since you indicated that you do not need a DVR, you could consider just using the cable/FIOS's cable box.
Thank you...I'm aware that TiVo is a dvr and requires subscription payment. Using a FiOS cablebox/stb (set top box) is problematic for me because only digital closed caption option "1" displays captions (options 2-6 do not work--do not display captions). The display quality of FiOS cable box digital option "1" is very bad--virtually unreadable--and changing the digital caption user style options do not improve the display quality of option "1". FiOS techs suggested that using a TiVo with a FiOS cable card would "fix" the issue because a TiVo has its own closed captioning chip/software in which all 6 of the digital closed caption options display captions so that's why I'm research TiVo's and who knows...maybe I'll get into dvr'ing...'-}}



>>I use Tivo to record OTA exclusively

I'd love to be able to get OTA but it's not possible given where I live as the signals are just not strong enough and living in an apartment, I can't use an exterior antenna.



>> Most of the CC are only in english

Yes that's going to be true for any progam originating in the US (or other English speaking countries) although as you noticed there is at least one digital closed caption option where the captions are in Spanish (usually option 2 but as you noted, sometimes option 3). Closed captions are different from subtitles which are used to display the dialogue in text in different languages. The word "dialogue" is important here because closed captions also indicate environmental sounds like a knock at the door, a phone ringing, a door closing, etc.--basically all of the sounds that someone with normal hearing would hear in the programs but those of us with a hearing loss cannot hear. It's frustrating when I watch a subtitled program because often I can't figure out what's going on if the action is predicated on a character having heard a sound although sometimes I can figure out that the phone rang or someone knocked on a door. What drives me absolutely NUTS is when I'm watching a foreign language program with English subtitles and then someone in the program speaks English and there are no subtitles so I don't know what's going on. On DVDs, you will sometimes see a subtitle option labelled "SDH" which is "subtitles for the deaf and hard of hearing" which are essentially closed captions with both text for spoken dialogue along with environmental sounds. Personally, I loathe the SDH approach because of the way it's displayed in that if you adjust the width settings for the movie to something wider, then the SDH text display also grows in size and it's very annoying. The previous method used just "regular" closed captioning and I prefer that approach.

Thanks...

Terrie

Last edited by tlbz : 05-26-2013 at 02:06 AM.
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Old 05-26-2013, 02:10 AM   #8
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Most of my CC exist mainly on DTVCC1, the other channels are non-existent for most programs or contain other languages.

Sometimes the programs displays if it has any CC and its placed where the show's rating is.
As for the Jay Leno show, it would display CC for the english, and CC2 en espanol, but I find it on DTVCC3.

As for my Tivo, in the info screen while playing a show, under the CC screen, it will display all the CC channels available. To select a channel, it would mean to go to the Tivo settings menu and navigate to the captions menu. On the info screen, there is only a toggle on/off.

I know a quirk on the CC, if its enabled and you use FFx1 (the slowest of 3), the CC would still display but at a faster rate. If you are a speed reader, you may be able to catch the entire dialogue without having to press play again.
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Last edited by ThAbtO : 05-26-2013 at 02:19 AM.
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Old 05-26-2013, 05:12 AM   #9
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I can give you an online demonstration of my Tivo and its CC.

Where are you located and what time zone? What times are you available to be online? Do you use high-speed internet? Dial-up internet will not be able to allow you to view the live stream.

I would need a bit of time to set up a live stream and even find shows with as many DTVCC channels. Most, if all, use only DTVCC1. It will also have live chat along side.

If you are getting bad CC on ch 1, it may be your TV. How old is it?

I googled your TV and on the Sony site, the 32L5000 is no longer available.
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Old 05-26-2013, 05:29 PM   #10
tlbz
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thabto: As for the Jay Leno show, it would display CC for the english, and CC2 en espanol, but I find it on DTVCC3.
I wonder if that's because you are receiving an OTA broadcast?



>>As for my Tivo, in the info screen while playing a show, under the CC screen, it will display all the CC channels available. To select a channel, it would mean to go to the Tivo settings menu and navigate to the captions menu.

That is very cool...



>>I can give you an online demonstration of my Tivo and its CC.

That is very kind of you but I trust what you are telling me that all of the digital closed caption options (1-6) on your TiVo do display captions which is the key piece of information I needed to confirm...



>>If you are getting bad CC on ch 1, it may be your TV. How old is it? I googled your TV and on the Sony site, the 32L5000 is no longer available.

The age of my HDTV is a reasonable question but that is not the problem--my tv is about 3.5 years old at this point--because the issue with FiOS closed captions exists on my sister's 3 month old HDTV and the problem on a FiOS stb of only digital closed caption option "1" displaying captions while options 2-6 do not has been confirmed by Verizon FiOS techs.

Thanks!

Terrie
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Old 05-26-2013, 05:45 PM   #11
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Last night, I had on a kids program on ION TV, Tivo said there was DTVCC1 and DTVCC3, tuned to CC3 and it was in spanish.
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Old 05-26-2013, 05:50 PM   #12
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thabto: Last night, I had on a kids program on ION TV, Tivo said there was DTVCC1 and DTVCC3, tuned to CC3 and it was in spanish.
Curiouser and curioser...'-}}

We need to find someone else in the SFBay area with a TiVo and not OTA to see if it's an SF thing or an OTA thing...


Could you do me a favor and the next time your TiVo shows DTVCC1, choose DTVCC4 (or 5 or 6 or even 2) and see if the captions display and if they are in English?

Thanks!

Terrie
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