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Old 05-05-2013, 04:53 PM   #1
Cainebj
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Smash "The Phenomenon" 5/4/13

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They really are jamming the parallels between Rent and Hit List down our throats, aren't they?
Jam down our throat complete.

In fact it's not exactly a jam - they are telling the story of RENT down to the cast doing a singing of the songs with no staging the night after Jonathan Larson died and the 'rentheads' lining up outside the theater.

The moment I saw this episode was called "The Phenomenon" I could see Kyle was toast.

Kevin McCollough one of the producers who played himself attending producers night was the guy who moved Rent to Broadway.

I'm just surprised so many of the people who lived through Rent didn't protest this blatant rip off of a storyline and are in the show.

I hope the Jonathan Larson Foundation is getting a royalty.

I am still enjoying this for what it is and I think Jimmy's song was heart wrenching. I was however surprised they needed this twist to take Hit List to Broadway when they were making out it was such a hit already.
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Old 05-05-2013, 04:57 PM   #2
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Jam down our throat complete.

In fact it's not exactly a jam - they are telling the story of RENT down to the cast doing a singing of the songs with no staging the night after Jonathan Larson died and the 'rentheads' lining up outside the theater.

The moment I saw this episode was called "The Phenomenon" I could see Kyle was toast.

Kevin McCollough one of the producers who played himself attending producers night was the guy who moved Rent to Broadway.

I'm just surprised so many of the people who lived through Rent didn't protest this blatant rip off of a storyline and are in the show.

I hope the Jonathan Larson Foundation is getting a royalty.

I am still enjoying this for what it is and I think Jimmy's song was heart wrenching. I was however surprised they needed this twist to take Hit List to Broadway when they were making out it was such a hit already.
I don't think it was the twist but simply the demonstration of a solid fan base in addition to Jerry seeing it and willing to foot the bill. The other money people did not not want to.

What I am appreciating is that the story arc seems a bit less jumbled now. I don't find my self day dreaming where I did in previous episodes. I even was willing to go with the various characters reflecting on how they wished they interacted with Kyle.
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Old 05-05-2013, 06:36 PM   #3
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I'm just surprised so many of the people who lived through Rent didn't protest this blatant rip off of a storyline and are in the show.
Jesse L Martin would probably be a bit of a hypocrite if he were upset by it considering his work on Law and Order, which did that sort of fictionalization of true events quite frequently.
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Old 05-06-2013, 01:26 PM   #4
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So, is Gatsby a musical again or not?
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Old 05-06-2013, 02:33 PM   #5
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I have not enjoyed this season at all. So Phenom was a Kyle tribute show. They had a tribute show for a character in his first year? Way too much Jimmy all season long. Quite a let down over season one.
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Old 05-06-2013, 02:35 PM   #6
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episode was lame.. Why couldn't it have been Jimmy that got hit by a car?


but it seems that Ivy COULD get a nomination for "Liaisons". She even said it closed within a week! (glad I remembered that part right)
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Old 05-06-2013, 03:19 PM   #7
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The nominations are announced in the first half of the two-hour season finale. I wonder if they'll reference this year's Matilda controversy somehow (the four girls who rotate in the title role were not allowed to be nominated "as a team" the way the three boys who rotated as Billy Elliot were, but the Tony Powers That Be instead gave the girls some sort of "honorary" award).

I also noticed that, on the "Supporting Actress" board (even though the Tonys use "featured" instead of "supporting"), Ana wasn't on there. It wasn't a question of not thinking that Hit List wouldn't make it to Broadway in time to be eligible, as Karen was on the "Best Actress" board.
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Old 05-06-2013, 03:43 PM   #8
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The nominations are announced...
Not that I think it matters too much for the few people that are left watching this show, but your post is a big honkin' giant spoiler for the next episode.
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Old 05-06-2013, 04:38 PM   #9
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Kinda surprised that they killed off Kyle. I thought they'd use him in the hospital to allow for Jimmy to actually look after Kyle for a change, and to start making changes in his life. Kyle was just much more likable as a character than Jimmy. And it was nice to see the "background" side of the show which came across in his character while collaborating with Julia.

I don't understand why Julia's new boyfriend couldn't just let her songwriting partner and her turn what she's worked on so far of Gatsby into a musical and perform that.

It might have been a previous episode (I watched a few in a row and there haven't been many threads here) but I did like that they made Karen and Ivy start getting along. Of course that is likely to be separated again with them likely competing for a Tony.
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Old 05-06-2013, 04:47 PM   #10
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didn't we see a board with potential Tony nominees in this episode?


I don't really see where the spoiler is. We know they will have to have nominees at some point. Knowing WHICH episode it comes in doesn't matter much, does it?
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Old 05-06-2013, 05:12 PM   #11
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Not that I think it matters too much for the few people that are left watching this show, but your post is a big honkin' giant spoiler for the next episode.
Considering that the next episode is on Saturday 5/11 and the two-hour finale is on Sunday 5/26, what, exactly, did I spoil?

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didn't we see a board with potential Tony nominees in this episode?
Yes - potential Tony nominees. (And like I said before, they didn't consider Ana a potential nominee.)

I noticed that one of the actresses on the supporting board (Patina Miller) is actually nominated in the Leading Actress in a Musical category (for Pippin) for the actual Tonys.
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Old 05-06-2013, 05:53 PM   #12
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didn't we see a board with potential Tony nominees in this episode?
My apologies if that was the case. I must have missed that.
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Old 05-06-2013, 08:11 PM   #13
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My apologies if that was the case. I must have missed that.
yeah it was in Anjelica Huston's office when she and Daphne Ruben Vega (the publicist and female lead in the original cast of Rent) were strategizing Bombshell's PR campaign.
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Old 05-06-2013, 09:00 PM   #14
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I have not enjoyed this season at all. So Phenom was a Kyle tribute show. They had a tribute show for a character in his first year? Way too much Jimmy all season long. Quite a let down over season one.
I thought that the episode was just poorly written in general.
The "imagination" sequences were a lame attempt to get us to care about a character that's barely registered on our radar since his debut.

If we had actually gotten to know him before this episode, we might have cared that he got flattened by a car.

Instead, it just comes across as lame and we're just going "meh".
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Old 05-07-2013, 12:29 PM   #15
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I think the have officially made all the characters unlikable now, especially since they killed off the only likable character left.
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Old 05-07-2013, 08:20 PM   #16
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The "imagination" sequences were a lame attempt to get us to care about a character that's barely registered on our radar since his debut.

If we had actually gotten to know him before this episode, we might have cared that he got flattened by a car.

Instead, it just comes across as lame and we're just going "meh".
I am missing something here. Why are people saying they were imagination scenes? They seemed like memories we didn't see. They all fit into the story and Tom made the change Kyle suggested in the scene. We know he worked with Julia on a storyboard and who said jimmy and Kyle never had a nice conversation? And Kyle and Karen did attend Bombshell at the same time.
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Old 05-07-2013, 08:34 PM   #17
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I am missing something here. Why are people saying they were imagination scenes? They seemed like memories we didn't see.
Yes, you are correct. They were definitely flashbacks.
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Old 05-07-2013, 09:14 PM   #18
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I am missing something here. Why are people saying they were imagination scenes? They seemed like memories we didn't see. They all fit into the story and Tom made the change Kyle suggested in the scene. We know he worked with Julia on a storyboard and who said jimmy and Kyle never had a nice conversation? And Kyle and Karen did attend Bombshell at the same time.
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Yes, you are correct. They were definitely flashbacks.
zalusky disagrees with you.

Truth be told, I thought that they were flashbacks at first as well but after I read his comments, I decided that I was wrong (the stupid tinting didn't help).

Either way, I don't think it invalidates my criticism of the whole episode.
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:15 AM   #19
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I disagree - I thought they were clearly flashback memories.
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:15 AM   #20
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I too thought they were flashbacks... memories of the best positive times they'd spent with Kyle.

Why would you imagine how you would have spent your time with a dead guy, when you did spend time with him?
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:32 AM   #21
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I too thought they were flashbacks... memories of the best positive times they'd spent with Kyle.

Why would you imagine how you would have spent your time with a dead guy, when you did spend time with him?
And to expand on that last point, the show was careful to set all the scenes in moments where we (the viewers) know the characters were and would have interacted with him.
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:48 AM   #22
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I too thought they were flashbacks... memories of the best positive times they'd spent with Kyle.

Why would you imagine how you would have spent your time with a dead guy, when you did spend time with him?
Have you ever had a relative die and realized you gave them short shrift and then go over in your mind how you would do it differently.

I can think of many situations with my mom and my dad and play out a different scenario than the one I did.

I think most people have a bit of guilt when they realize they can never make it better.

In the case of Kyle they probably ignored him or feel they did not stand up for him more when they saw how Jimmy treated him.
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Old 05-08-2013, 10:18 AM   #23
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Have you ever had a relative die and realized you gave them short shrift and then go over in your mind how you would do it differently.

I can think of many situations with my mom and my dad and play out a different scenario than the one I did.

I think most people have a bit of guilt when they realize they can never make it better.

In the case of Kyle they probably ignored him or feel they did not stand up for him more when they saw how Jimmy treated him.
But that doesn't prove flashback or imagining.

Take the Julia glow-scene . She worked with Kyle on the storyboard, and he had a different view of how a scene should work. At the time, she thought it was good, but kept it her way. In the dead-Kyle present, she realizes that his idea is better, and uses it.

To me that only makes sense as a flashback. It's probably a personal choice which way someone views it, and not worth arguing about. The end result is the same, that the rememberer/dreamer had something influenced based on their experience with Kyle.
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Old 05-08-2013, 10:21 AM   #24
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But that doesn't prove flashback or imagining.

Take the Julia glow-scene . She worked with Kyle on the storyboard, and he had a different view of how a scene should work. At the time, she thought it was good, but kept it her way. In the dead-Kyle present, she realizes that his idea is better, and uses it.

To me that only makes sense as a flashback. It's probably a personal choice which way someone views it, and not worth arguing about. The end result is the same, that the rememberer/dreamer had something influenced based on their experience with Kyle.
Additionally, in one of the cut-scenes, Kyle had a suggestion for a new scene to "Bombshell." After he died, Tom went and put it into the show. It wouldn't make any sense if Tom had just IMAGINED Kyle suggesting the scene.
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Old 05-08-2013, 10:29 AM   #25
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In the case of Kyle they probably ignored him or feel they did not stand up for him more when they saw how Jimmy treated him.
But that doesn't seem to have been the case at all about, really, any of the characters.
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:40 AM   #26
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There's no way Julia would have tried to get the lights dimmed for him if she just imagined that it was one of Kyle's loved traditions since she knows it's only done for big stars. But because she had talked with him about it, she thought it was a fitting tribute.

I didn't think for a minute that these were dreams and not just flashbacks.
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:50 AM   #27
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Additionally, in one of the cut-scenes, Kyle had a suggestion for a new scene to "Bombshell." After he died, Tom went and put it into the show. It wouldn't make any sense if Tom had just IMAGINED Kyle suggesting the scene.
I am not suggesting the scenes are not rooted in reality.

I just know in my own personal cases I replayed real memories of conversations with tweaks because that's what I wished I would have done.

However you guys are probably right because they are probably not clever enough to think that way.
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:43 PM   #28
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Am I the only who wants to see a Roadhouse musical?
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Old 05-08-2013, 06:05 PM   #29
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I am not suggesting the scenes are not rooted in reality.

I just know in my own personal cases I replayed real memories of conversations with tweaks because that's what I wished I would have done.

However you guys are probably right because they are probably not clever enough to think that way.
I don't think anyone would write it that way. It is bad story telling to sort of make up a memory that is not a memory. It is not straight forward to the watcher unless they let you in on the secret.

In other words, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
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Old 05-16-2013, 01:26 PM   #30
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So had it not been cancelled Gatsby would have been next season's big show?
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