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Old 05-02-2013, 02:14 PM   #1
JYoung
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Arrow - S01E21 - "The Undertaking" 05/01/2013

Interesting that there was no island flashback but I guess it was necessary in order to set up the goings on in Starling City and flesh out the background on Malcolm's plot and his history with Robert.

Oliver finds out that Mom is in on the conspiracy and Malcolm is too (but he doesn't know about those years of training in Nanda Parbat).
Big blow to Oliver. At least he rescued Walter (although the parachute jump was a stretch).

Loved Felicity in the casino.

BTW, based on the name "Markov device", I was 99.999% certain of what the device did the moment I heard the name.

Other shoutouts included "Ted Kord", and "Ray and Jean" (Palmer and Loring, respectively).
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Old 05-02-2013, 02:21 PM   #2
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I'm usually checking the clock everytime the flashback scenes come, but with this episode, I was actually surprised when the credits rolled. "Over already?" It makes for a tighter and more intense episode when they are not frequently cutting to flashbacks.

Years of training in Nanda Parbat? What are you talking about? What episode mentioned that?

I find it amusing that Diggle accused Oliver of always having to be right. The thing is, in this argument, Oliver was right. Diggle's mission was to kill someone out from under the authorities who were trying to capture him, and Diggle was ordered not to be there by the authorities. Moreover, there appeared to be plenty of manpower to capture Deadshot (turned out not to be the case, but still...). Oliver went after someone who no one was going after, and Oliver's goal was not to kill someone, but to have someone captured and to protect people from being killed. In fact, the assassin went through the security people that Diggle hand-picked like they were nothing, so Oliver's family was actually not safe, despite Diggle's claim that they were. So really, it is Diggle who owes Oliver an apology. He let his need for vengeance overcome his responsibility to do the right thing. Sounds like something Oliver would do, before he met Diggle.

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Old 05-02-2013, 02:41 PM   #3
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Big blow to Oliver. At least he rescued Walter (although the parachute jump was a stretch).
That's twice in this episode he went face-to-face with people who should have recognized him despite the hood and the voice-altering...I guess eye-shadow is as effective as glasses/spit-curl for disguise purposes?
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Loved Felicity in the casino.
Indeed. She cleans up nice...although IMO she doesn't need any "cleaning."
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BTW, based on the name "Markov device", I was 99.999% certain of what the device did the moment I heard the name.
When/if they use it, I wonder how they will control/limit its effects...
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Old 05-02-2013, 02:51 PM   #4
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Indeed. She cleans up nice...although IMO she doesn't need any "cleaning."
Are we supposed to think that Felicity isn't hot at all because she wears glasses?
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Old 05-02-2013, 03:08 PM   #5
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Are we supposed to think that Felicity isn't hot at all because she wears glasses?
I think she's ridiculously hot "geeked out." I'm not sure we're meant to think she looks "plain" because she wears glasses, in the way the "plain best friend" on TV often is played by a ridiculously hot brunette wearing glasses.

I suspect her casino outfit was meant to be an improvement on her normal look, but it didn't really have that effect on me, although she still looked awfully nice (often when already-hot women are "dolled up" it just looks tarty, but not in this case).
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Old 05-02-2013, 03:09 PM   #6
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I think she's ridiculously hot "geeked out." I'm not sure we're meant to think she looks "plain" because she wears glasses, in the way the "plain best friend" on TV often is played by a ridiculously hot brunette wearing glasses.

I suspect her casino outfit was meant to be an improvement on her normal look, but it didn't really have that effect on me, although she still looked awfully nice (often when already-hot women are "dolled up" it just looks tarty, but not in this case).
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Old 05-02-2013, 08:35 PM   #7
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Years of training in Nanda Parbat? What are you talking about? What episode mentioned that?
"Dead to Rights". Five episodes ago when Malcolm was in the hospital bed.

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Indeed. She cleans up nice...although IMO she doesn't need any "cleaning."
I actually thought that Keegan Connor Tracy did it better in Jake 2.0 though.
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When/if they use it, I wonder how they will control/limit its effects...
With the help of Dr. Jace?
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Old 05-02-2013, 09:40 PM   #8
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"Dead to Rights". Five episodes ago when Malcolm was in the hospital bed.
I just rewatched the scene you mentioned. Malcolm does mention Nanda Parbat, but he does not talk about any training. Only that he met a man there who helped him understand and come up with a plan for Starling city.
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Old 05-03-2013, 12:46 AM   #9
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I just rewatched the scene you mentioned. Malcolm does mention Nanda Parbat, but he does not talk about any training. Only that he met a man there who helped him understand and come up with a plan for Starling city.
It was implied.
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Old 05-03-2013, 01:47 AM   #10
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It was implied.
Certainly not! I guess you are making assumptions based on external information.
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Old 05-03-2013, 02:51 AM   #11
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Certainly not! I guess you are making assumptions based on external information.
Not at all.

To refresh your memory of the episode, China White's crew was going after Malcolm and Tommy who were fleeing.
Malcolm uses his martial arts skills to take out two thugs that try to stop them.

When they get to Malcolm's office, which is also considered a safe room, Tommy asks him how he knew how to take out those guys.
Obviously, Tommy doesn't know that Malcolm has the necessary fighting skills.

Malcolm opens up his Dark Archer closet (don't forget, we the audience already knew that Malcolm is the Dark Archer) and is about to tell him about it when Deadshot shoots him.

Oliver saves him but when Malcolm is talking to Tommy in the hospital, it's a continuation of their previous conversation. We know he's talking about his training because of the tidbits that the writers have laid out for us in the previous scenes and episodes.
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Old 05-03-2013, 05:22 AM   #12
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What happens if Oliver's mom asks Diggle about his faulty information about Walter's death? He doesn't know that Oliver made the story up.

Thea sounds like she's a three pack a day smoker.

I kinda got the feeling that Oliver really wasn't cheating on Laurel with her sister, that there was another reason for her to be on the boat.
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Old 05-03-2013, 10:37 AM   #13
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Oliver saves him but when Malcolm is talking to Tommy in the hospital, it's a continuation of their previous conversation. We know he's talking about his training because of the tidbits that the writers have laid out for us in the previous scenes and episodes.
Know is a strong word. We might guess that he had combat training in Nanda Parbat. All we know is that Malcolm has some exceptional combat skills, and at some point (he says) he was in Nanda Parbat. He did not even say that he was in Nanda Parbat for a long time. It is possible that he was only there a few days, then he went other places during his long absence.
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Old 05-03-2013, 10:38 AM   #14
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I kinda got the feeling that Oliver really wasn't cheating on Laurel with her sister, that there was another reason for her to be on the boat.
Why do you think that? If it was the case, why would Oliver not have told Laurel by now?
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Old 05-03-2013, 11:01 AM   #15
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Why do you think that? If it was the case, why would Oliver not have told Laurel by now?
Do you even watch television? Since when does anybody tell anybody anything?
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Old 05-03-2013, 12:00 PM   #16
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Do you even watch television? Since when does anybody tell anybody anything?
I'm told that I watch it...
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Old 05-03-2013, 12:42 PM   #17
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I'm told that I watch it...
But I bet they didn't tell you on a TV show!

Unless the writers decided it wouldn't hurt the drama of the plot if you knew...
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Old 05-03-2013, 01:02 PM   #18
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Okay then, what do you suppose Oliver and Sarah are doing here, all alone in his cabin on the boat? Rehearsing for the annual for-charity production of The Tempest ?


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Old 05-03-2013, 02:14 PM   #19
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Looks like I was wrong about Ollie and Laurel's sister. But I again ask, how do you people remember this stuff?
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Old 05-03-2013, 02:18 PM   #20
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Looks like I was wrong about Ollie and Laurel's sister. But I again ask, how do you people remember this stuff?
It helps that Sarah looked pretty hot in her bra and panties in that scene.
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Old 05-03-2013, 04:31 PM   #21
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Know is a strong word. We might guess that he had combat training in Nanda Parbat. All we know is that Malcolm has some exceptional combat skills, and at some point (he says) he was in Nanda Parbat. He did not even say that he was in Nanda Parbat for a long time. It is possible that he was only there a few days, then he went other places during his long absence.
Is it your contention that he had no training?

No, we don't know with 100% certainty that Malcolm trained in Nanda Parbat.
(After all the writers or the ones that follow them may change their minds.)
For all we know, Malcolm is lying.

But we do know that Malcolm disappeared for two years after his wife was killed.
We do know that Tommy is very bitter about that.

Tommy's two burning questions to Malcolm in "Dead to Rights" are "Where were you for those two years? and "How did you become so skilled in violence?"

He said he was in Nanda Parbat and he found someone to help him figure things out.
He didn't say he visited other places.

Since his skills are a shock to Tommy, it's highly unlikely he possessed them before he left.
Therefore, he most likely acquired them during those missing years.

And since Nanda Parbat was the only place he mentioned, it is the most likely candidate as to where he learned those skills, or at least that's what the writers want us to intuit at this point.
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Old 05-03-2013, 04:56 PM   #22
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Okay then, what do you suppose Oliver and Sarah are doing here, all alone in his cabin on the boat? Rehearsing for the annual for-charity production of The Tempest ?

CPR?
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Old 05-03-2013, 05:14 PM   #23
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CPR?
That must be it! Since Laurel and Oliver are moving in together, Sarah and Oliver thought it would be a good idea for Oliver to learn CPR "just in case"! Good thing Sarah is an expert at it.
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Old 05-03-2013, 05:31 PM   #24
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And since Nanda Parbat was the only place he mentioned, it is the most likely candidate as to where he learned those skills....
I agree it is a good possibility. I just thought I had missed something when you stated it with such authority, as if the show had flashed back to Malcolm's Nanda Parbat training or something equally conclusive.
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Old 05-03-2013, 07:44 PM   #25
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I agree it is a good possibility. I just thought I had missed something when you stated it with such authority, as if the show had flashed back to Malcolm's Nanda Parbat training or something equally conclusive.

That wasn't my point in the original statement.

It was an offhand comment on how Malcolm is the formidable Dark Archer and how Oliver still doesn't know.
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Old 05-03-2013, 10:01 PM   #26
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That wasn't my point in the original statement.

It was an offhand comment on how Malcolm is the formidable Dark Archer and how Oliver still doesn't know.
Okay, but what you wrote was "but he doesn't know about those years of training in Nanda Parbat".

My immediate reaction was, what years of training in Nanda Parbat?

Anyway, I agree that Oliver does not know that Malcolm has extreme fighting (and arrow shooting) skills.
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Old 05-04-2013, 06:55 PM   #27
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I think Felicity normally looks good. But in the red dress was smoking hot.

But the thing that upset me in this episode is that the "catch" her card counting because she got a blackjack and didn't hit? I thought you catch a card counter because they do something the standard tables tell you not to do because you know there's either more 10's or fewer 10's left. But counting cards wouldn't have any impact on how frequently you get a blackjack.

Oh, red dress again. Never mind.
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Old 05-04-2013, 06:57 PM   #28
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Do we know how long she was playing? Might have just been an overly hasty edit...
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Old 05-04-2013, 07:01 PM   #29
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Interesting that there was no island flashback but I guess it was necessary in order to set up the goings on in Starling City and flesh out the background on Malcolm's plot and his history with Robert.
So up till now, I've assumed that Arrow was about Oliver Queen and the flashbacks flesh out _his_ back story.

But maybe Arrow is Malcolm, and it's like a whole Anakin Skywalker deal!
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:37 AM   #30
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I'm usually checking the clock everytime the flashback scenes come, but with this episode, I was actually surprised when the credits rolled. "Over already?" It makes for a tighter and more intense episode when they are not frequently cutting to flashbacks.
The flashbacks are making me nutso.

I am so sick of "Woo Fat, you escaped?" "No, I'm working for the devil master." so we can capture you and let you you escape again. Wash, Rinse, Repeat.

How does that makes sense? Daddy joined up with the bad guys because they were holding his daughter hostage. She escapes with the good guys...so Daddy leads the bad guys to them?


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I find it amusing that Diggle accused Oliver of always having to be right. The thing is, in this argument, Oliver was right. Diggle's mission was to kill someone out from under the authorities who were trying to capture him, and Diggle was ordered not to be there by the authorities. Moreover, there appeared to be plenty of manpower to capture Deadshot (turned out not to be the case, but still...). Oliver went after someone who no one was going after, and Oliver's goal was not to kill someone, but to have someone captured and to protect people from being killed. In fact, the assassin went through the security people that Diggle hand-picked like they were nothing, so Oliver's family was actually not safe, despite Diggle's claim that they were. So really, it is Diggle who owes Oliver an apology. He let his need for vengeance overcome his responsibility to do the right thing. Sounds like something Oliver would do, before he met Diggle.
How about the feds doing a stakeout on the killer sniper who always chooses a high perch by flooding the joint with men all on the ground, with not a single one covering high sniping locations?

I know it's a comic book, but the rising violins in the background music and the cheesy cliche dialog is maddening after a while.

Felicity is hot, though.

And Lauren wearing those tight knit tops shows all of her top in amazing detail for a broadcast TV show.

They're running out of ways to do product placements for Windows 8 tablets.
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