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Old 04-22-2013, 03:21 PM   #1
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Mad Men "To Have and To Hold" OAD 4/21/13

No thread yet?

Tsk..Don...typical cheater behavior...my ex-husband did the same thing... any time I even commented on another man's looks, he would pout and get all upset...all the while he was cheating on me! What a DOOSH...can't you be happy for your wife's success? Loser!!!

LOVED the ...ahem...shall we call it the "fickle finger of fate?" at the bar..LOLZ ..but way to go Peggy...they wanted the bottle, she gave them the bottle...40 feet high in Times Square, no less...

When I saw in the guide that "an old friend visits Joan," I was hoping it might be her old roomie...the lesbian..I loved that character. That whole storyline, this friend we've never seen before, Joan and her friend out on the town, two cougars cruising for cubs...I don't know...not sure what that was all about...

Siepenwall's take: http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-wat...y-take-a-penny
What do others think?
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Old 04-22-2013, 03:55 PM   #2
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been looking for this thread all day long!!


Liked seeing Don do his pitch, then Peggy do hers. Loved how Don just had to listen in to Peggy's. She did good. She gave them the big bottle of ketchup (not catsup!!). That's what the client SAYS they want. But they aren't creative people. Of course, both are good campaigns. Are both of them real campaigns from the past? Will SDCP win the ketchup account, making the loss of vinegars, sauces, and beans moot?

I too don't know what the thing with Joan and her friend was all about. Were they really so "wasted" they slept in their clothes? Also, what is Joan's position in SDCP? She's a partner, but is her actual job just "office manager"?


Not at all surprising that Don was not at all unhappy with Megan's success.


Oh.. And Harry.. Lol... He looks so weird now. And his office still cracks me up. Rodger's reaction to his demands were funny. Same when they gave him the fat commission check, which seemed to equal his annual salary.
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Old 04-22-2013, 04:02 PM   #3
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Will SDCP win the ketchup account, making the loss of vinegars, sauces, and beans moot?
According to the episode Ketchup bought Peggy's add in the room.

ETA: Sepinwall disagrees with me, so i guess I misunderstood that point.
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Old 04-22-2013, 04:02 PM   #4
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According to Siepenwall, neither of them won the account-it was a 3rd agency...so Peggy burned bridges with Stan for, well...nothing?
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Old 04-22-2013, 04:14 PM   #5
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Don eavesdropping and hearing Peggy quoting him was my favorite moment of the show. FU, Don!

I guess the sexual revolution is in full swing now.

Harry needs an ass-kicking. He wasn't Pete-class dooshy, but still punch-worthy.
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Old 04-22-2013, 04:24 PM   #6
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Harry needs an ass-kicking. He wasn't Pete-class dooshy, but still punch-worthy.
He did not handle it well and went way beyond a reasonable response, but Joan was also a little out of line in firing the secretary like that. Joan should have at least talked to Harry before she fired his secretary.
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Old 04-22-2013, 04:30 PM   #7
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I didn't recall either getting a nod one way or the other. Obviously, if SDCP had won, why would Peggy's team come in? I didn't recall Peggy's team getting an answer one way or the other either.
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Old 04-22-2013, 04:30 PM   #8
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Oh.. And Harry.. Lol... He looks so weird now. And his office still cracks me up. Rodger's reaction to his demands were funny. Same when they gave him the fat commission check, which seemed to equal his annual salary.
When they gave him $20,000 I thought it was a pretty good bonus. Then they said it was basically his annual salary. Now that's a bonus.

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According to Siepenwall, neither of them won the account-it was a 3rd agency...so Peggy burned bridges with Stan for, well...nothing?
I didn't get that. I was all happy for Peggy.

Did they really let all the other agencies meet them in the hotel room Draper paid for? How tacky.
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Old 04-22-2013, 04:31 PM   #9
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I guess the sexual revolution is in full swing now.

another re-occurring theme. that and lots of Vietnam talk.
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Old 04-22-2013, 04:39 PM   #10
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Ketchup vs. Catsup. Was Peggy right?


http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/..._chunky_bottom
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Old 04-22-2013, 04:50 PM   #11
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I got a kick out of the Lancers wine bottle on the table in Joan's apartment. While I couldn't remember the brand name, I knew it was Portuguese wine, so I had to look it up.

All the time they showed work on the Heinz pitch I was waiting to hear Anticipation. Looked it up later and it didn't become their ad until the 70s.

Don acting all worked up about Megan's love scene could have been him being a hypocrite, but it could also been about him overcompensating to try to hide his real feelings on the subject of marital infidelity.
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Old 04-22-2013, 05:08 PM   #12
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He did not handle it well and went way beyond a reasonable response, but Joan was also a little out of line in firing the secretary like that. Joan should have at least talked to Harry before she fired his secretary.
Yes she was, but Scarlett (?) basically lied to her face, which Joan knew, and then gave the "zip-it" sign to Don's secretary, which pissed Joan off more. Heat of the moment firing to be sure, but not unjustified. Harry's comments about a partner, even one who they treat as a glorified secretary, should have harsher consequences.
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Old 04-22-2013, 05:10 PM   #13
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I got a kick out of the Lancers wine bottle on the table in Joan's apartment. While I couldn't remember the brand name, I knew it was Portuguese wine, so I had to look it up.

All the time they showed work on the Heinz pitch I was waiting to hear Anticipation. Looked it up later and it didn't become their ad until the 70s.

Don acting all worked up about Megan's love scene could have been him being a hypocrite, but it could also been about him overcompensating to try to hide his real feelings on the subject of marital infidelity.
Which is Don creating the reality that he wants out of the Megan marriage. So he starts by picking fights and such because he wants Megan to dump him and not he dumping Megan. He after deserves to be dumped.
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Old 04-22-2013, 05:19 PM   #14
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Harry's comments about a partner, even one who they treat as a glorified secretary, should have harsher consequences.
Today, yes. Back then would never happen.
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Old 04-22-2013, 06:24 PM   #15
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I didn't recall either getting a nod one way or the other. Obviously, if SDCP had won, why would Peggy's team come in? I didn't recall Peggy's team getting an answer one way or the other either.
Peggy's team clearly says that J. Walter Thompson got the account while Peggy was still in the room. JWT was the largest ad firm in the world at the time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JWT
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Old 04-22-2013, 06:26 PM   #16
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Peggy's team clearly says that J. Walter Thompson got the account while Peggy was still in the room. JWT was the largest ad firm in the world at the time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JWT
there is no way I would have ever known that. I don't think many other people did either.
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Old 04-22-2013, 09:35 PM   #17
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I loved this episode. I like more time at the office and less Don smoldering - although we got some of that too. I loved loved loved the hallway scene when Teddy and Peggy walked up as Don and team walked out. Getting to know Dawn a little better is great. And more Joan is always good. Interesting to see her as the third wheel and then finally give in and have a little fun.

I wanted to punch Harry in the face four or five times. What an ass. Is he sleeping with his secretary? Probably right?

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there is no way I would have ever known that. I don't think many other people did either.
I thought that scene was confusing. The way Teddy said it, and not knowing what the name meant, it sounded like a guy in the room picked CGC as the winners. But watching the scene again, Teddy did say "the lonely hearts club" and he and Peggy were not celebrating. It just went over my head the first time.
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Old 04-22-2013, 10:01 PM   #18
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It's a pretty familiar name in the world of advertising. I instantly knew what they were talking about. But several have said they didn't...
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Old 04-22-2013, 10:06 PM   #19
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It's a pretty familiar name in the world of advertising. I instantly knew what they were talking about. But several have said they didn't...
I read (ok, flip through) AdAge, but mostly for the brand and digital marketing info. I don't have anything to do with advertising or agencies and haven't heard of most of them, including JWT.
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Old 04-22-2013, 10:24 PM   #20
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Peggy's team clearly says that J. Walter Thompson got the account while Peggy was still in the room. JWT was the largest ad firm in the world at the time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JWT
You're right, except for the part about Heinz giving the account to JWT while Peggy was still in the room. They said JWT "bought it in the room," which means that when JWT made their presentation, Heinz hired them on the spot, rather than taking a day or two and them telling all the presenters at the same time.
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Old 04-23-2013, 02:02 AM   #21
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I thought that scene was confusing. The way Teddy said it, and not knowing what the name meant, it sounded like a guy in the room picked CGC as the winners. But watching the scene again, Teddy did say "the lonely hearts club" and he and Peggy were not celebrating. It just went over my head the first time.
Me too.

Also, Don said something to the effect of "of course they went with the biggest player", which initially confused me because I thought SCDP was larger than Teddy's agency, but makes a lot more sense when you know who JWT is.

If it would have been Young & Rubicam or Ogilvy & Mather, I would have instantly known what had happened. The JWT mention went right over my head (probably because it sounds like a person's name, rather than an agency name).
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Old 04-23-2013, 06:03 AM   #22
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well that went totally over my head.

when he said they bought in the room i thought peggy got the campaign.

i am totally adopting joan's style of office management.
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Old 04-23-2013, 06:50 AM   #23
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He did not handle it well and went way beyond a reasonable response, but Joan was also a little out of line in firing the secretary like that. Joan should have at least talked to Harry before she fired his secretary.
Mine you, it's not 1968, but if my secretary were found cheating on a timecard while I was out of the office, I would likely come back to the office to find that I didn't have a secretary.
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Old 04-23-2013, 06:53 AM   #24
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Oh.. And Harry.. Lol... He looks so weird now. And his office still cracks me up. Rodger's reaction to his demands were funny. Same when they gave him the fat commission check, which seemed to equal his annual salary.
Working in a firm with a similar structure to SCDP, I'm almost certain near-identical scenes to that one (with different fashion) have played out around here.

I wonder if Harry knows how Joan got to be partner. (ETA: I watched the scene again. It's clear he did)

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Old 04-23-2013, 07:08 AM   #25
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Working in a firm with a similar structure to SCDP, I'm almost certain near-identical scenes to that one (with different fashion) have played out around here.

I wonder if Harry knows how Joan got to be partner. (ETA: I watched the scene again. It's clear he did)
based on his rant when he barged into the conference room saying something like "he did his work with the lights on," i say he (and everyone) knows.

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Not at all surprising that Don was not at all unhappy with Megan's success.
wait, what?



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All the time they showed work on the Heinz pitch I was waiting to hear Anticipation. Looked it up later and it didn't become their ad until the 70s.
thanks for looking that up...the "anticipation" slogan was my my expectation as well.
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Old 04-23-2013, 07:11 AM   #26
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Mine you, it's not 1968, but if my secretary were found cheating on a timecard while I was out of the office, I would likely come back to the office to find that I didn't have a secretary.
Which is fine if that is what you expect to happen, but in Harry's case, I think he expected to be consulted if his secretary were to be fired. And firing someone should never be an emotional decision, which is why Joan should have waited and consulted Harry before firing the secretary. As I said, Joan was out of line. But then Harry was even more out of line in his reaction.
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Old 04-23-2013, 07:11 AM   #27
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Another random comment: It looked like it in the season opener, and this episode confirmed it: with the expansion into upstairs, Cooper has his own office again (with a return of the no-shoes rule and the dirty Japanese picture), instead of couch-surfing around.
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Old 04-23-2013, 08:12 AM   #28
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Which is fine if that is what you expect to happen, but in Harry's case, I think he expected to be consulted if his secretary were to be fired. And firing someone should never be an emotional decision, which is why Joan should have waited and consulted Harry before firing the secretary. As I said, Joan was out of line. But then Harry was even more out of line in his reaction.
Joan was not out of line. Joan is in charge of hiring and firing secretaries. Harry didn't choose his secretary. In that era, and especially at that firm, secretaries are simply put at the desks where they are needed. Unless Harry was pulling a Roger/Don and was sleeping with his secretary, he shouldn't have cared if she was replaced. Joan would have simply put someone else on Harry's desk and that would have been the end of it.
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Old 04-23-2013, 10:02 AM   #29
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In that era, and especially at that firm, secretaries are simply put at the desks where they are needed. Unless Harry was pulling a Roger/Don and was sleeping with his secretary, he shouldn't have cared if she was replaced.
You have obviously never worked with a good secretary if that is what you think. You could be right that Harry likes her for some reason other than professionally, but that is far from the only possible explanation.

For all Joan knew, Harry could have given her permission to do as the secretary did (which would probably be against office rules, but then it would be Harry's fault). Joan may be in charge of the secretaries, but she was definitely out of line by firing her without consulting Harry first.
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Old 04-23-2013, 10:25 AM   #30
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For all Joan knew, Harry could have given her permission to do as the secretary did (which would probably be against office rules, but then it would be Harry's fault). Joan may be in charge of the secretaries, but she was definitely out of line by firing her without consulting Harry first.
Joan is Harry's organizational superior and a partner in the firm. She didn't have to consult Harry on this. If she can give Miss Blankenship to Don, Joan can fire Harry's secretary.
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