TiVo Community
TiVo Community
TiVo Community
Go Back   TiVo Community > Underground Playground > TiVo Upgrade Center
TiVo Community
Reply
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-20-2014, 01:32 AM   #691
nooneuknow
TiVo User Since 2007
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cox Cable Market, NV
Posts: 3,237
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmbach View Post
The true virgin factory image does not need a c&de and gets married to the TiVo at first run. Problem is that it run an older OS and does not support drives over 2TB.
Thanks for clearing that up (I erred on the side of caution). I'm aware of the latter issue, which is why I'm always posting directions for making the cleanest, smallest, and already unmarried, updated images. All of that should be here, and in a dozen other threads already.

OTOH, sometimes we forget that some are just looking to restore the stock drive with a clean image, or they only plan on using a max of 2TB.

It would be nice if more people, having the right models, provided images with a newer software, not married to a TSN, which ideally begins with a virgin image.
__________________
...
nooneuknow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2014, 01:48 AM   #692
nooneuknow
TiVo User Since 2007
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cox Cable Market, NV
Posts: 3,237
Quote:
Originally Posted by lessd View Post
All my TiVo images are made by starting C&D all than after the welcome screen I pull the plug and make a copy of the drive, except for the Roamio product.
So, if I am reading this right, you start the C&DE, only as far as selecting it from the menu, then pull power before it performs it?

That works, but some image recipients (if you share your images), might panic if the first thing they see upon booting with the image is the C&DE boot-time screen.

If you keep your images just for yourself, that works just fine. I've done it that way, when the image was just for my use, and I didn't have time to watch for the reboot after boot-time C&DE (final stage of process) process completed. It's faster for the making of the image, and slower on the TiVo it winds up used with. I seem to recall the final image/backup size being larger than it needed to be, and it didn't compress (zip) down as well, either.
__________________
...
nooneuknow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2014, 05:55 AM   #693
ggieseke
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,073
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckcheeze View Post
ggieseke
if i am reading your post correctly, this may save me. i can restore from an image onto any drive and it will bring the tivo and hard drive into factory setting with no recordings...right?
It sounds like you have a TCD746320, but please confirm the model number so I can send you a link to the correct image.

My 746 image requires a C&DE. It was updated from 14.5 to 20.2.0a before being backed up. The 748 & 758 images were from 14.5 factory virgins.

I also have 748 & 758 images running 20.4.1. If anyone has a nice clean 746 image running 20.4.x I'd be glad to host it for those looking to break the 2TB limit.
ggieseke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2014, 05:38 PM   #694
lessd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 6,150
Quote:
Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
So, if I am reading this right, you start the C&DE, only as far as selecting it from the menu, then pull power before it performs it?

That works, but some image recipients (if you share your images), might panic if the first thing they see upon booting with the image is the C&DE boot-time screen.

If you keep your images just for yourself, that works just fine. I've done it that way, when the image was just for my use, and I didn't have time to watch for the reboot after boot-time C&DE (final stage of process) process completed. It's faster for the making of the image, and slower on the TiVo it winds up used with. I seem to recall the final image/backup size being larger than it needed to be, and it didn't compress (zip) down as well, either.
When I do share such an image I give instructions to the user telling them that the first part of the first boot is to marry the TiVo to the drive, never been a problem.
__________________
Les Daniels

_____________________________________________
3 Roamio Plus upgraded to 2Tb & 3Tb, and 2 Minis,
lessd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2014, 05:04 AM   #695
nooneuknow
TiVo User Since 2007
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cox Cable Market, NV
Posts: 3,237
Quote:
Originally Posted by lessd View Post
When I do share such an image I give instructions to the user telling them that the first part of the first boot is to marry the TiVo to the drive, never been a problem.
OK. That leaves the part I was leaving out/waiting on, until I confirmed that.

As we've noticed, some (not just one), give universal (one size fits all) statements on shared images, that they requiring a C&DE once the recipient's TiVo completes setup. I've already covered the two distinct scenarios where that does not apply. Your imaging method adds another dimension.

You are the only person doing as you describe, and sharing the images, that I'm aware of. You have no control over what happens to your images once you share them. If the images are being further distributed (which is likely), and the instructions/explanations don't get passed along with the images "out in the wild", that's bound to confuse some image recipients (maybe even incite panic), as well as those who may reply to posts about "why did this image do this?". Any unrelated issue, where the image recipient mentions the way the drive first booted, would likely have many questioning if the image was good, suggesting re-imaging, and/or suggesting to obtain a different image (as nobody is used to seeing a shared image boot into the C&DE process/screen).

Sometimes I've wondered if it was best if donor images were all provided as-is (in the usual states). Those who don't do their homework, would always post the same issue (with non-virgin drives), and a singular reply would remain the same "Run a C&DE to unmarry & remarry the image to the TiVo's TSN". It's a short question with a short answer. I won't go into the larger drive capacity and software revision matters, just yet.

Since those making the images have no control over what happens to them later, it would be best to include a README_FIRST.txt file in the image archive file.

The time you save with your method, has great potential to add more new threads, more posts, and increase the amount of time the helping people in the community have to spend assisting recipients of images created from a drive in an unconventional state.

Everybody appreciates that people create and share images in the first place. They also appreciate those hosting links to re-share them. We all appreciate those who make the tools/utilities to do so. I try to simplify things for all image recipients, by posting my guides to preparing drives for imaging. I do not wish to put you into a defensive position, over my concerns.

Things got more complicated since the Premiere software reached a revision allowing it to boot on a >2TB drive. This is not uncharted territory, though. The TiVo HD had to reach a software revision level to support >1.26TB (without pre-imaged drives, or a lot of complex work). There were similar matters with older models.

There were specific variables before, virgin image or non-virgin image, the software version and drive size. I added my own way to eliminate the need to complete GS, only to have to re-complete it, after a C&DE, plus added already having the software already at the required version for larger drive support, eliminating intermediate drives. I added complexity to making the image, while making it easy-peasy for anybody who gets the image, no matter how they got it.

Sometimes it helps the community to not add more variables than there needs to be (especially when it comes to those who try to provide help/support). Unless you assign a special identifier to the filename of the image file, that makes it stand out as "unconventional", when it gets into the wild, I am a bit concerned about how much complexity it may add. I'm also wondering what possible problems might arise if an image from a drive in that state is used as a base for further operations, and the recipient fails to boot the drive the image is applied to, and let it return to a conventional state, before performing further operations.

I've tried very hard to make this post about keeping things simple for those who get the images you make, from the wild, as well as simple for those who try to answer questions they may post here. None of it is intended to imply ingratitude, and/or imply that you are doing anything wrong. If I wasn't trying so hard on those fronts, it would be much shorter...
__________________
...

Last edited by nooneuknow : 07-21-2014 at 05:10 AM.
nooneuknow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2014, 09:44 AM   #696
chuckcheeze
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 4
ggieseke, yes, i have TCD746320. please share link to image.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ggieseke View Post
It sounds like you have a TCD746320, but please confirm the model number so I can send you a link to the correct image.

My 746 image requires a C&DE. It was updated from 14.5 to 20.2.0a before being backed up. The 748 & 758 images were from 14.5 factory virgins.

I also have 748 & 758 images running 20.4.1. If anyone has a nice clean 746 image running 20.4.x I'd be glad to host it for those looking to break the 2TB limit.
ggieseke, yes, i have TCD746320. please share link to image.

i just ddrescued in a new drive this weekend and i am still getting flicker. it is good you have an earlier version, because my tivo started to flicker when i got the summer update and there was a lightening storm. not sure what is happening. so frustrating!
chuckcheeze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2014, 11:57 AM   #697
nooneuknow
TiVo User Since 2007
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cox Cable Market, NV
Posts: 3,237
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckcheeze View Post
ggieseke, yes, i have TCD746320. please share link to image.

i just ddrescued in a new drive this weekend and i am still getting flicker. it is good you have an earlier version, because my tivo started to flicker when i got the summer update and there was a lightening storm. not sure what is happening. so frustrating!
I sincerely doubt even a new hard drive with a new image will fix that specific problem, with those specific circumstances. You will get the update again, if you had some illusion you could stay on older software.

It won't hurt to see what happens. Just don't get your hopes up...
__________________
...
nooneuknow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2014, 04:18 PM   #698
chuckcheeze
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 4
fingers crossed on image fixing it

Quote:
Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
I sincerely doubt even a new hard drive with a new image will fix that specific problem, with those specific circumstances. You will get the update again, if you had some illusion you could stay on older software.

It won't hurt to see what happens. Just don't get your hopes up...
i am keeping my hopes low with the image. after i reboot with the old drive and newly image drive, it works for about an hour and then the flicker comes back.

fingers crossed if the image work.
chuckcheeze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2014, 08:31 PM   #699
lessd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 6,150
Quote:
Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
OK. That leaves the part I was leaving out/waiting on, until I confirmed that.

As we've noticed, some (not just one), give universal (one size fits all) statements on shared images, that they requiring a C&DE once the recipient's TiVo completes setup. I've already covered the two distinct scenarios where that does not apply. Your imaging method adds another dimension.

You are the only person doing as you describe, and sharing the images, that I'm aware of. You have no control over what happens to your images once you share them. If the images are being further distributed (which is likely), and the instructions/explanations don't get passed along with the images "out in the wild", that's bound to confuse some image recipients (maybe even incite panic), as well as those who may reply to posts about "why did this image do this?". Any unrelated issue, where the image recipient mentions the way the drive first booted, would likely have many questioning if the image was good, suggesting re-imaging, and/or suggesting to obtain a different image (as nobody is used to seeing a shared image boot into the C&DE process/screen).

Sometimes I've wondered if it was best if donor images were all provided as-is (in the usual states). Those who don't do their homework, would always post the same issue (with non-virgin drives), and a singular reply would remain the same "Run a C&DE to unmarry & remarry the image to the TiVo's TSN". It's a short question with a short answer. I won't go into the larger drive capacity and software revision matters, just yet.

Since those making the images have no control over what happens to them later, it would be best to include a README_FIRST.txt file in the image archive file.

The time you save with your method, has great potential to add more new threads, more posts, and increase the amount of time the helping people in the community have to spend assisting recipients of images created from a drive in an unconventional state.

Everybody appreciates that people create and share images in the first place. They also appreciate those hosting links to re-share them. We all appreciate those who make the tools/utilities to do so. I try to simplify things for all image recipients, by posting my guides to preparing drives for imaging. I do not wish to put you into a defensive position, over my concerns.

Things got more complicated since the Premiere software reached a revision allowing it to boot on a >2TB drive. This is not uncharted territory, though. The TiVo HD had to reach a software revision level to support >1.26TB (without pre-imaged drives, or a lot of complex work). There were similar matters with older models.

There were specific variables before, virgin image or non-virgin image, the software version and drive size. I added my own way to eliminate the need to complete GS, only to have to re-complete it, after a C&DE, plus added already having the software already at the required version for larger drive support, eliminating intermediate drives. I added complexity to making the image, while making it easy-peasy for anybody who gets the image, no matter how they got it.

Sometimes it helps the community to not add more variables than there needs to be (especially when it comes to those who try to provide help/support). Unless you assign a special identifier to the filename of the image file, that makes it stand out as "unconventional", when it gets into the wild, I am a bit concerned about how much complexity it may add. I'm also wondering what possible problems might arise if an image from a drive in that state is used as a base for further operations, and the recipient fails to boot the drive the image is applied to, and let it return to a conventional state, before performing further operations.

I've tried very hard to make this post about keeping things simple for those who get the images you make, from the wild, as well as simple for those who try to answer questions they may post here. None of it is intended to imply ingratitude, and/or imply that you are doing anything wrong. If I wasn't trying so hard on those fronts, it would be much shorter...
I only use my images with certain people on this Forum who know what their doing, or friends that would never share with anybody, I have send out drives with my image on them and a note, never had any returns or problems as it is hard to share a drive, for me the C&D works and saves the user much time as they don't have to do two setups and they get the newest software.
__________________
Les Daniels

_____________________________________________
3 Roamio Plus upgraded to 2Tb & 3Tb, and 2 Minis,
lessd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2014, 07:13 AM   #700
ggieseke
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,073
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckcheeze View Post
i am keeping my hopes low with the image. after i reboot with the old drive and newly image drive, it works for about an hour and then the flicker comes back.

fingers crossed if the image work.
PM sent.
ggieseke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2014, 12:04 PM   #701
nooneuknow
TiVo User Since 2007
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cox Cable Market, NV
Posts: 3,237
Quote:
Originally Posted by lessd View Post
I only use my images with certain people on this Forum who know what their doing, or friends that would never share with anybody, I have send out drives with my image on them and a note, never had any returns or problems as it is hard to share a drive, for me the C&D works and saves the user much time as they don't have to do two setups and they get the newest software.
The way I outlined earlier in this thread does all of that, plus saves the recipients time on waiting for the C&DE process to complete, and makes the cleanest & smallest image possible, while providing all of that.

I guess since you seem sure your images won't leak into into the wild, I need not be concerned about what state the drive is in when you image it.
__________________
...

Last edited by nooneuknow : 07-22-2014 at 04:17 PM. Reason: corrected word reversal
nooneuknow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2014, 04:12 PM   #702
lessd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 6,150
Quote:
Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
The way I outlined earlier in this thread does all of that, plus saves the recipients time on waiting for the C&DE process to complete, and makes the cleanest & smallest image, while possible providing all of that.

I guess since you seem sure your images won't leak into into the wild, I need not be concerned about what state the drive is in when you image it.
It has been some years since I have done any images for anybody but myself (except ggieseke who does know what he is doing).
__________________
Les Daniels

_____________________________________________
3 Roamio Plus upgraded to 2Tb & 3Tb, and 2 Minis,
lessd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2014, 03:27 PM   #703
bobade
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 9
Can you explain this DvrBARS behavior?

11/26/13 - Truncated backup of my WD20EARX (from TIVO TCD746320) successful, size 3.62 GB

8/2/14 - Same TIVO, same drive, same copy of DvrBARS (1.0.0.3), permanently deleted all of the Recently Deleted programs first and then successfully made a Truncated backup, size 106.4 GB.

Why the huge size disparity? Is bigger, better?

Will either of these truncated backups actually be able to create a functional 2TB TIVO drive?

In my case I was able to copy my drive with JMFS, so I don't plan to use the DvrBARS restore functionality. But I have seen recent discussion of this issue on this thread, and want to report that permanently deleting the recently deleted files does not solve the problem.
bobade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2014, 03:42 PM   #704
bobade
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 9
Do you TIVO gurus replace drives before they fail?

Do you have any backup strategy?

I have 2 TIVOs - an HD with 1TB and a Premiere with 2TB - which are primarily used to record shows from cable so that we can watch what we want, when we want, and avoid commercials. Unfortunately, if a TIVO drive fails, all it contains can be lost.

The drives have been working well for 3 years, but I have decided to replace them both prophylactically. Is that crazy? One benefit is that the retired but functional drives are available to restore a new drive in the case of drive failure.

Regarding backup, the TIVOs are located in separate viewing areas, but are set to record most of the same shows, so I have a backup if one were to fail. This system works pretty well, but can be foiled by TIVOs failure to explicitly notify you when a recording is skipped because it is of lower priority.

I guess I'm willing to admit to my OCD tendencies. What do the rest of you do?
bobade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2014, 03:59 PM   #705
ggieseke
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,073
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobade View Post
Can you explain this DvrBARS behavior?

11/26/13 - Truncated backup of my WD20EARX (from TIVO TCD746320) successful, size 3.62 GB

8/2/14 - Same TIVO, same drive, same copy of DvrBARS (1.0.0.3), permanently deleted all of the Recently Deleted programs first and then successfully made a Truncated backup, size 106.4 GB.

Why the huge size disparity? Is bigger, better?

Will either of these truncated backups actually be able to create a functional 2TB TIVO drive?

In my case I was able to copy my drive with JMFS, so I don't plan to use the DvrBARS restore functionality. But I have seen recent discussion of this issue on this thread, and want to report that permanently deleting the recently deleted files does not solve the problem.
I still don't have an explanation for that behavior. Running C&DE does bring it back down to the size that I would expect with either Truncated or Modified Full backups, but I guess the RD programs isn't where the problem lies. I proposed that as a possible solution a while back and you're the first person who has tried it and posted the results. Thanks.

Both images should restore fine, it's just that the 106.4GB image is obviously way too big for a Truncated backup and includes sectors that it shouldn't.
ggieseke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2014, 12:15 AM   #706
HerronScott
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Staunton, VA
Posts: 1,028
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobade View Post
Do you TIVO gurus replace drives before they fail?

The drives have been working well for 3 years, but I have decided to replace them both prophylactically. Is that crazy? One benefit is that the retired but functional drives are available to restore a new drive in the case of drive failure.
I had asked a similar question a while back but didn't get much in the way of responses. My current 2 S3 OLED's both have 1TB drives that are 6 years old now. I too had thought of replacing them before they failed with new 2TB drives.

Scott
__________________
  1. S3 HD - 2TB - Lifetime (son's)
  2. S3 OLED - 2TB - Lifetime
  3. S3 OLED - 2TB - Lifetime
  4. S1 Phillips - 120GB - Lifetime transferred to S3
  5. S1 Sony - 30GB - Lifetime transferred to S3
HerronScott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2014, 03:22 PM   #707
tommyjr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: St Clair Shores, MI
Posts: 2
Looks like this forum would be quite helpful in figuring out how to fix (or replace) the hard drive in my TCD748000. But, where do I find an image file to use once I crack it open? Are there links anywhere? Thanks.
tommyjr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2014, 06:46 AM   #708
ggieseke
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,073
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommyjr View Post
Looks like this forum would be quite helpful in figuring out how to fix (or replace) the hard drive in my TCD748000. But, where do I find an image file to use once I crack it open? Are there links anywhere? Thanks.
Check your Private Messages. I sent you a link.
ggieseke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2014, 08:37 PM   #709
tommyjr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: St Clair Shores, MI
Posts: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggieseke View Post
Check your Private Messages. I sent you a link.
Great! Thanks very much for your help.
tommyjr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2014, 12:38 PM   #710
unitron
Registered User
 
unitron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: semi-coastal NC
Posts: 13,791
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobade View Post
Do you TIVO gurus replace drives before they fail?

Do you have any backup strategy?

I have 2 TIVOs - an HD with 1TB and a Premiere with 2TB - which are primarily used to record shows from cable so that we can watch what we want, when we want, and avoid commercials. Unfortunately, if a TIVO drive fails, all it contains can be lost.

The drives have been working well for 3 years, but I have decided to replace them both prophylactically. Is that crazy? One benefit is that the retired but functional drives are available to restore a new drive in the case of drive failure.

Regarding backup, the TIVOs are located in separate viewing areas, but are set to record most of the same shows, so I have a backup if one were to fail. This system works pretty well, but can be foiled by TIVOs failure to explicitly notify you when a recording is skipped because it is of lower priority.

I guess I'm willing to admit to my OCD tendencies. What do the rest of you do?
None of my 2TB WD "green" AV drives have died yet, but I've had 2 "Caviar Green" WD20EADS drives (which I was running in a PC running Desktop and backing up shows to) go bad shortly after end of warranty, so If you can spare the money, I'd call it good practice.

And it'll give you an excuse to move that HD up to 2TB.
__________________
(thisismysigfile)


"I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."

Darth TiVo, 14 February, 2011
unitron is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2014, 04:31 PM   #711
UCLABB
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Riverside, CA
Posts: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggieseke View Post
I still don't have an explanation for that behavior. Running C&DE does bring it back down to the size that I would expect with either Truncated or Modified Full backups, but I guess the RD programs isn't where the problem lies. I proposed that as a possible solution a while back and you're the first person who has tried it and posted the results. Thanks.

Both images should restore fine, it's just that the 106.4GB image is obviously way too big for a Truncated backup and includes sectors that it shouldn't.
I just backed up my 2tb drive in my XL4 this morning. Used the truncated option and was about to tack it onto my desktop until I saw it was something like 1.5 tb and wouldn't fit on my 1tb OS drive. Fortunately I have another 3tb drive in the PC with plenty of room. I was hoping to also put the image on a flash drive for safe keeping, but obviously that is now out if the question.

I am now waiting out a full restore to a 2tb drive. I did full as I previously tried to do a restore on it in the past (bad external enclosure was fouling things up) and figured I'd play it safe and write zeros on unused parts.

Once the restore us done, I will put it in the TiVo to make are it boots up okay. Is there anything I need to do to make sure it is ready to be fully functional with full capacity in the TiVo if and when I need it should my existing drive have a problem?
UCLABB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2014, 06:40 PM   #712
nooneuknow
TiVo User Since 2007
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cox Cable Market, NV
Posts: 3,237
Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
None of my 2TB WD "green" AV drives have died yet, but I've had 2 "Caviar Green" WD20EADS drives (which I was running in a PC running Desktop and backing up shows to) go bad shortly after end of warranty, so If you can spare the money, I'd call it good practice.

And it'll give you an excuse to move that HD up to 2TB.
It's been my experience that a WD20EADS drive, running 24/7/365 for three years, will never spin up again, if powered off.

I've seen spindle motor lockup, head to platter seizing, and inability to spin-up in time before the drive aborts and tries again (over and over).

Even though it's outdated advice to stick a drive in the freezer, I've tried it a few times over the years (as a last resort), and can say it's been almost 10 years since the "hard drive in the freezer" method made a drive work again, for me, in any capacity.

There are far too many problems that that method can cause, and just make things worse, or create more problems (often taking any other valid methods off the table). Cooling the PCB can be done a number of ways, that don't create condensation. Even if sealed in a bag, with sealed cables coming out of the bag, there's still moisture in the air inside the drive, and what air is in the bag, even in the mojave desert.

In my recent experiences, when running 24/7, standard drives would last 2 years, and the AV ones 3 years (about the same length as the warranty). Anything longer is good luck, and gravy.

At some point, something changed with the drives and longevity. I still have a drive that is over 15 years old, ran 24/7 for about 10 years, was retired, but still powers-up, works, and passes all the tests I can throw at it. It sounds like a circular saw cutting through plywood, but just won't quit. 80GB WD Caviar 7200RPM PATA (the WD Black of the time period).

My new method is to test for slow-reading sectors that would cause AV issues, but not fail a test. I then word my RMA request to reflect that the drive has too many slow sectors to keep up with what I use it for. So far, that's worked well for me, when I have a drive close to warranty, that hasn't failed.

WD has just recently changed their whole RMA "Support Portal", and everything about registration & RMAs, so I have no idea if I could do that anymore...

I still have two stock 160GB drives, from some of the first TiVo HDs to go to retail, which don't work fast enough for TiVo use any more, but pass all standard tests with flying colors. I should run them through Spinrite testing and see what that level of testing says about them...
__________________
...
nooneuknow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2014, 06:12 AM   #713
ggieseke
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,073
Quote:
Originally Posted by UCLABB View Post
I just backed up my 2tb drive in my XL4 this morning. Used the truncated option and was about to tack it onto my desktop until I saw it was something like 1.5 tb and wouldn't fit on my 1tb OS drive. Fortunately I have another 3tb drive in the PC with plenty of room. I was hoping to also put the image on a flash drive for safe keeping, but obviously that is now out if the question.

I am now waiting out a full restore to a 2tb drive. I did full as I previously tried to do a restore on it in the past (bad external enclosure was fouling things up) and figured I'd play it safe and write zeros on unused parts.

Once the restore us done, I will put it in the TiVo to make are it boots up okay. Is there anything I need to do to make sure it is ready to be fully functional with full capacity in the TiVo if and when I need it should my existing drive have a problem?
If the existing drive was already using the entire 2TB it should be fine. I don't resize or move partitions like WinMFS. Every byte that it backs up gets written to the exact same location during a restore. You can check the hours on the SI screen to be sure.

I gotta figure out why truncated backups are picking up so much extra stuff.
ggieseke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2014, 01:08 PM   #714
UCLABB
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Riverside, CA
Posts: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggieseke View Post
If the existing drive was already using the entire 2TB it should be fine. I don't resize or move partitions like WinMFS. Every byte that it backs up gets written to the exact same location during a restore. You can check the hours on the SI screen to be sure.

I gotta figure out why truncated backups are picking up so much extra stuff.
Okay, here is what I noticed/did. While the backup said the file was 1.5tb and showed that when I clicked on properties afterward, I notice that checking the properties of the drive itself did not jive- by subtraction the file wasn't anything near that.

When I put the drive with the restore in the Tivo it still showed the listing of all the shows and the drive 50% full. The shows of course weren't there and I got an error when I tried to play them. I deleted all the shows to get down to zero disc usage.

I pulled the drive and ran a backup from it and the file size then was only about 2.7gb- a number I assume would be expected.

An interesting thing I noted was that the THX video WAS playable so apparently it is somewhere on that "truncated" area.

Greg, I am in awe of the work you and others do to help amateurs like myself deal with their TiVos. I made a modest contribution via Paypal.
UCLABB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2014, 05:38 PM   #715
ggieseke
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,073
Quote:
Originally Posted by UCLABB View Post
Okay, here is what I noticed/did. While the backup said the file was 1.5tb and showed that when I clicked on properties afterward, I notice that checking the properties of the drive itself did not jive- by subtraction the file wasn't anything near that.

When I put the drive with the restore in the Tivo it still showed the listing of all the shows and the drive 50% full. The shows of course weren't there and I got an error when I tried to play them. I deleted all the shows to get down to zero disc usage.

I pulled the drive and ran a backup from it and the file size then was only about 2.7gb- a number I assume would be expected.

An interesting thing I noted was that the THX video WAS playable so apparently it is somewhere on that "truncated" area.

Greg, I am in awe of the work you and others do to help amateurs like myself deal with their TiVos. I made a modest contribution via Paypal.
That's really interesting. How big was the actual backup file? I knew that a C&DE would get it back down to size, but your results are a first. About 2.7GB is pretty normal for a raw Premiere image and that should zip down to about 1.5GB, which is definitely flash drive or single-layer DVD territory.

It should keep all of your your settings and maybe even the CableCARD pairing if the gods are smiling.

I specifically wrote it to include the THX video and the two "intro" videos that came with 14.5 in a truncated backup. Glad to hear that's still working.

Somewhere in the early 20s (software-wise) they dropped the /Recording folder in MFS and all of its subfolders and switched to a single /Recordings folder with just enough info to point to the SQLite database for the rest of the metadata. The truncated backup code still worked as expected back then because I was looking for any folder that started with "/Recording" and "/Recordings" fit the bill. They have probably changed the landscape again and that's why it's making huge truncated backups.

Most people don't have the disk space to even attempt a nearly 2TB backup file, so your feedback really helps. Your donation is also greatly appreciated.
ggieseke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2014, 07:09 PM   #716
UCLABB
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Riverside, CA
Posts: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggieseke View Post
That's really interesting. How big was the actual backup file? I knew that a C&DE would get it back down to size, but your results are a first. About 2.7GB is pretty normal for a raw Premiere image and that should zip down to about 1.5GB, which is definitely flash drive or single-layer DVD territory.

It should keep all of your your settings and maybe even the CableCARD pairing if the gods are smiling.

I specifically wrote it to include the THX video and the two "intro" videos that came with 14.5 in a truncated backup. Glad to hear that's still working.

Somewhere in the early 20s (software-wise) they dropped the /Recording folder in MFS and all of its subfolders and switched to a single /Recordings folder with just enough info to point to the SQLite database for the rest of the metadata. The truncated backup code still worked as expected back then because I was looking for any folder that started with "/Recording" and "/Recordings" fit the bill. They have probably changed the landscape again and that's why it's making huge truncated backups.

Most people don't have the disk space to even attempt a nearly 2TB backup file, so your feedback really helps. Your donation is also greatly appreciated.
As I said, DVRBars said it was 1.5tb at the beginning of the backup process. When I hit properties on the the .vhd file after the backup was complete, it said it was 1.5tb in size. However, my 2.7tb HDD already had 0.8tb on it leaving roughly 1.9tb free. After I put the .VHD on it and then hit properties of the HDD, it still showed about 1.9tb free space. Thus while the .vhd THINKS it is 1.5tb in size, it obviously isn't.

I suspect that if I had tried to put the first "1.5tb" .vhd on the desktop of my OS drive, even though there wasn't 1.5tb space available for the .vhd, it would have worked just fine.
UCLABB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2014, 12:15 PM   #717
mc_hotmail
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 10
Using a backup from a different TiVo

I read some many postings about backup and restore but never get a clear statement about these 2 questions:

1) If I have 2 TiVo units of the same series (e.g. TCD746320 and TCD746500), can I restore a backup from one unit (smaller or equal size) onto another?

2) Will the unit being written retain its unique TiVo Service Number (TSN)?

I would guess the "master" TSN is from its ROM but also know that the TSN is saved in various files of the hard drive.

Thanks

--mc
mc_hotmail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2014, 12:40 PM   #718
jmbach
Registered User
 
jmbach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 851
Quote:
Originally Posted by mc_hotmail View Post
1) If I have 2 TiVo units of the same series (e.g. TCD746320 and TCD746500), can I restore a backup from one unit (smaller or equal size) onto another?
Yes as long as the drive you are restoring to is of equal or larger size than the image you backed up. If the drive is larger, you will have to expand it with JMFS to use the whole drive for recording.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mc_hotmail View Post
2) Will the unit being written retain its unique TiVo Service Number (TSN)?
Yes, but the image will show the TSN as all zeroes until you do a C&DE.
__________________
"Delay is preferable to error" - Thomas Jefferson
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Sir Isaac Newton
jmbach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2014, 05:38 PM   #719
jackthejester
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 1
Image for a Premiere XL4 TCD758250

Hey Guys ..

My drive is starting to act up and I might need to do a reinstall and wanted to see if this might be available if I need to do to a total swap.

I'm on Win 8.1 and tried using DVRBars but it starts then stops immediately - I've tried compatibility mode with no luck.

I can try to use my original drive and do a clone of some kind, but don't know if that's my issue (bad sectors) - planning on running a 54 disk-check overnight tonight.

Thanks in advance - trying to get out ahead of a bad HDD and the related downtime - happy wife, happy life!

dave.
jackthejester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2014, 05:53 PM   #720
lpwcomp
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: John's Creek, Georgia
Posts: 5,588
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackthejester View Post
Hey Guys ..

My drive is starting to act up and I might need to do a reinstall and wanted to see if this might be available if I need to do to a total swap.

I'm on Win 8.1 and tried using DVRBars but it starts then stops immediately - I've tried compatibility mode with no luck.

I can try to use my original drive and do a clone of some kind, but don't know if that's my issue (bad sectors) - planning on running a 54 disk-check overnight tonight.

Thanks in advance - trying to get out ahead of a bad HDD and the related downtime - happy wife, happy life!

dave.
Did you start DVRBars via "Run as administrator"?
__________________
James L. Sutherland
"You know TiVo users. Bunch of b****y little girls" TiVoAxe

"Jessica Fletcher visits Midsomer. Carnage ensues!"
lpwcomp is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Forum Jump




Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Advertisements

TiVo Community
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media

(C) 2013 Magenium Solutions - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVoŽ is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not owned or operated by TiVo Inc.
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:25 PM.
OUR NETWORK: MyOpenRouter | TechLore | SansaCommunity | RoboCommunity | MediaSmart Home | Explore3DTV | Dijit Community | DVR Playground |