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Old 05-15-2014, 01:20 PM   #1
Dubbadown
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Shows Not Permanently Deleting

I've had an issue since February and was wondering if anyone else had. Starting with this year's Super Bowl, and has since happened with a few other basketball games that I've recorded, I go to delete the show and it goes to the Recently Deleted Folder. But then, once there, it never PERMANENTLY DELETES, even if I try to manually delete it. This wouldn't be that big of a problem but apparently these files are super huge because even though my Usage shows as 50%, it is starting to delete shows from My Shows because of disk space. When I called Tivo, all they could recommend was that I do a Clean Delete of all shows but obviously I don't want to do that. Any advice?
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Old 05-15-2014, 01:31 PM   #2
buscuitboy
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Is this the only TiVo you have in your account? If you have others, you might want to "transfer" the shows you want to keep to the other TiVo. Either this or use the TiVo desktop software to transfer it to a PC. Then do the suggested "clear & delete". You can then transfer/stream back to this TiVo.

While maybe not a solution to your problem, it could offer an alternative plan to help keep your shows & possibly solve your issue as well. Also, it depends on what your cable company flags too. I am with Comcast and they won't allow transferring of Premium content (HBO, Showtime, etc.), but allow ANY other channels. HBO material can be streamed between TiVos (Premieres and/or Roamios), but just not transferred. I know I have read that some other cable companies flag contant on a lot more than premium channels so I guess it depends on who you have.
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Old 05-15-2014, 01:41 PM   #3
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Yeah I have another Tivo and know I can transfer, its just a pain, especially if I'm not sure the clear and delete method will fix the problem. What's to prevent new recordings from being corrupted as well? Thanks for reply.
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Old 05-15-2014, 05:30 PM   #4
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kmttg Remote has a "Deleted" tab where you can permanently delete programs, so you may want to try deleting that way to see if it works.
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Old 05-20-2014, 01:56 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by moyekj View Post
kmttg Remote has a "Deleted" tab where you can permanently delete programs, so you may want to try deleting that way to see if it works.
Is kmttg remote a separate application? I'm not on my home network at the moment, but I tried looking (a week or so ago) for a way to empty the "recently deleted" folder from kmttg, and it wasn't obvious.

Thanks ... Mike
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Old 05-21-2014, 01:42 AM   #6
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Is kmttg remote a separate application? I'm not on my home network at the moment, but I tried looking (a week or so ago) for a way to empty the "recently deleted" folder from kmttg, and it wasn't obvious.

Thanks ... Mike
No, there's a main "Remote" tab with a whole bunch of sub-tabs, one of them being "Deleted" where you can find that functionality. Full capability is only available for series 4 or later TiVos, limited capability for series 3.
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Old 05-21-2014, 04:39 PM   #7
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Found it, thanks.
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Old 06-04-2014, 11:18 PM   #8
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I'm having a problem similar to this. It seems like shows I have deleted using the app on an iOS device are not releasing the space for recording, although they do disappear from the list of recordings.

I can't go beyond 82% usage now. There is nothing in the recently deleted folder (except one old show that won't delete permanently from 4/17, and occasionally one or two other small recordings.) Once I hit 82%, recordings delete...this includes new KUID recordings which will delete before completion if space runs outs.

How can I resolve this? Is there a kick start method that will recover the space, ie. go through the allocation table and free blocks not assigned to existing recordings?

* Note: I am using the current version of TiVo's iOS app. Recordings that are deleting generally do not end up on recently deleted (except the noted occasional one or two small ones above) and thus are not recoverable. New KUIDs delete while recording is still in progress if space runs out.

Last edited by berkshires : 06-05-2014 at 11:38 AM. Reason: Make things clearer
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Old 06-12-2014, 09:43 PM   #9
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Since I have ceased using the TiVo app on iOS devices to delete shows, there has been no further loss of space. I'd say there is a strong suspect in custody.

Now what do I do to get TiVo Inc. to fix this and get people's free space usable again?
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Old 06-13-2014, 02:12 PM   #10
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Since I have ceased using the TiVo app on iOS devices to delete shows, there has been no further loss of space. I'd say there is a strong suspect in custody.

Now what do I do to get TiVo Inc. to fix this and get people's free space usable again?
Have you tried going into the "Recently Deleted" folder and permanently deleting such shows? I've gotten burned with some long sports programmings not clearing from Recent Deleted folder and thus deleting shows I wasn't expecting. If you try to permanently delete and show still remains, then usually a restart of TiVo will get the show to delete.
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Old 06-13-2014, 03:08 PM   #11
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Have you tried going into the "Recently Deleted" folder and permanently deleting such shows? I've gotten burned with some long sports programmings not clearing from Recent Deleted folder and thus deleting shows I wasn't expecting. If you try to permanently delete and show still remains, then usually a restart of TiVo will get the show to delete.
Yes, I've tried all that, as already described there is essentially nothing in RD folder. Also have now done kick start 57. The one permanent RD resident - a 2hr SD show from 4/17 still doesn't delete, but that doesn't interest me - having only 82% of my recording capacity "interests" me!
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Old 06-13-2014, 05:03 PM   #12
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Yes, I've tried all that, as already described there is essentially nothing in RD folder. Also have now done kick start 57. The one permanent RD resident - a 2hr SD show from 4/17 still doesn't delete, but that doesn't interest me - having only 82% of my recording capacity "interests" me!
I had one show that took up 25% of my hard drive stuck in permanently deleted, would not go away no matter what I did, reset, restore and delete again, repeat over and over. It was weird, a six hr baseball game that info said was like 200 GB even though it should have only been around 50 GB. I called TiVo support and said I need to do a clear and reset. But before doing that, I posted a question to TiVo Margret on twitter and she actually responded and was able to have some one fix it behind the scenes. Not sure if this is similar to your issue...but it's worth doing that...that's probably your best bet for getting TiVo's attention and fixing something that maybe they weren't aware of.
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Old 06-13-2014, 05:10 PM   #13
berkshires
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That's great! How do I reach her exactly? She is no longer on this forum?

I'm now trying kick start 58...with 57 I got a green screen warning of a serious problem detected. Here I have a screen claiming an update is installing...is this normal under 58 or a huge coincidence?

Last edited by berkshires : 06-13-2014 at 05:18 PM.
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Old 06-13-2014, 09:43 PM   #14
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PM/post your TSN. The fix for your bug is in the next release, but it can get manually corrected in the current release.
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Old 06-13-2014, 11:12 PM   #15
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Six plus hours later I still have the update installing screen and I'm going to bed.
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Old 06-14-2014, 06:50 PM   #16
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Update: After 12 hrs with that update installing screen, I pulled the plug and successfully rebooted. Still couldn't record beyond 82%. A second kick start 58 and 2hrs of update install screen and I pulled the plug and rebooted. Still can't record beyond 82%.

**** Summary: At 82% disk usage the TiVo is behaving exactly as it would and should at 100%.
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Old 06-14-2014, 11:04 PM   #17
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Update: After 12 hrs with that update installing screen, I pulled the plug and successfully rebooted. Still couldn't record beyond 82%. A second kick start 58 and 2hrs of update install screen and I pulled the plug and rebooted. Still can't record beyond 82%.

**** Summary: At 82% disk usage the TiVo is behaving exactly as it would and should at 100%.
The amount of time all these things are taking (on yours) only replicate my own results, until removing SP KUID designations, and stripping it off existing recordings with KMTTG using bulk delete of everything and bulk recovering it all was the only way I could make my repeated efforts work.

I was repeating the same efforts for at least a dozen times, every operation was taking 4x or longer than any other identical Roamio took to complete the same tasks. Taking KUID out of the equation, and again doing all the same things fixed it for me, and a second run of all the repair efforts brought completion time down to the same as the rest.

Be in denial about KUID all you like. It works fine, until it doesn't. There's some threshold that each model TiVo (Roamio, Premiere, HD - the ones I have owned) reaches, and then all bets are off once that threshold is exceeded. This is why some use it without issue, and others don't. If the threshold that causes "weird" things to happen isn't exceeded, they don't happen.

Until you are willing to at least try taking KUID out of the equation, at least temporarily, you might as well just stop trying, and stop expecting people to help, and to back you up, IMHO.

I resisted all the warnings myself, when members (even the forum experts) started attributing KUID to causing problems. I just wasn't vocal about it, like you have been.
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Old 06-14-2014, 11:35 PM   #18
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Now you've said something that could fit...KUID problem is not always present but can crop up at a certain level of usage. Still I've never seen it despite massive KUID usage myself from Series2-4, nor seen anyone else's problem with it.

Has this KUID SP issue ever been attributed to the ratio of SPs that are KUID and non-KUID? Does the removal of a couple KUID SPs ever alleviate or reduce the problem? Does the problem get worse when a KUID SP has no upcoming recordings?

I don't have kmttg and am only using official TiVo stuff as intended these days.
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Old 06-14-2014, 11:56 PM   #19
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Now you've said something that could fit...KUID problem is not always present but can crop up at a certain level of usage. Still I've never seen it despite massive KUID usage myself from Series2-4, nor seen anyone else's problem with it.

Has this KUID SP issue ever been attributed to the ratio of SPs that are KUID and non-KUID? Does the removal of a couple KUID SPs ever alleviate or reduce the problem? Does the problem get worse when a KUID SP has no upcoming recordings?

I don't have kmttg and am only using official TiVo stuff as intended these days.
It is more the number of KUID programs already on the drive (and per folder), and what is in the guide to record in the future (especially if upcoming entries are set to KUID), than a ratio (unless it's the ratio of used/free space).

Unless you feel like clearing KUID one at a time, KMTTG is the way to go.

I resisted using KMTTG for years, and am still kicking myself for doing so. It's not going to mess up your computer or TiVo (although it has some advanced options that can be dangerous if you use them without knowing/learning what they are, what they do, how to use them). It puts the "official stuff" to shame. Once you try it, you'll never look back again. I paid for TiVo Desktop Plus, and I removed it from my computer.

You seem to be "coming around" on KUID, so I hope you'll consider KMTTG, rather than dismiss it without trying it. I can't imagine not having KMTTG to use. It's that darn good, and makes all things TiVo so much nicer for me. It has a very small learning curve, and has help balloons for each box you can check and every virtual button you can press.

The author has a thread here, and provides better support than any paid product I have ever needed support for.
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Old 06-19-2014, 11:41 AM   #20
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I am having the same issue. There are 2 movies that I cannot permanently delete. The movies are probably corrupted given their huge size. I have an open ticket with TiVo, but have waited a while and received no response.

As someone with a software background, this feels like a corrupted file management system.
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Old 07-08-2014, 07:04 PM   #21
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Hmm, I use KUID for most shows but I keep my disk space below 75% and have no problem. on 2 Premieres.
Also, I wish I could use KMTTG but when you have TWC and 95% of shows are no copy, you can't back up or move much anyway...
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Old 07-09-2014, 01:36 AM   #22
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Hmm, I use KUID for most shows but I keep my disk space below 75% and have no problem. on 2 Premieres.
Also, I wish I could use KMTTG but when you have TWC and 95% of shows are no copy, you can't back up or move much anyway...
How does that stop you from using KMTTG (other than for offloading)?

I only have ~2% protected content channels, and I don't use KMTTG for moving things. I use it for managing the content on the TiVos, and managing SPs, backing them up, finding new upcoming premieres to create SPs for, etc.

Being able to chuck the whole drive's worth of content into Recently Deleted, then recovering it all, with just a few clicks (or key presses) is one darn quick way to pull the KUID designation off anything it may be on.

The only transfers I do are between TiVos, using the TiVos themselves.
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Old 07-09-2014, 01:41 AM   #23
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I am having the same issue. There are 2 movies that I cannot permanently delete. The movies are probably corrupted given their huge size. I have an open ticket with TiVo, but have waited a while and received no response.

As someone with a software background, this feels like a corrupted file management system.
You will likely have to live with it until the time comes you are willing to do a Clear & Delete Everything procedure.

I think I've seen reports of TiVo being able to somehow fix that remotely, in some cases, for some people. The specifics of which I am not able to recall.
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Old 07-10-2014, 01:01 PM   #24
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I think I've seen reports of TiVo being able to somehow fix that remotely, in some cases, for some people. The specifics of which I am not able to recall.
Email me (margret@tivo.com) your TSN and the names of the shows you can't get rid of, and I can have someone fix it remotely.

Sorry for the trouble.
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Old 07-10-2014, 01:10 PM   #25
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You will likely have to live with it until the time comes you are willing to do a Clear & Delete Everything procedure.

I think I've seen reports of TiVo being able to somehow fix that remotely, in some cases, for some people. The specifics of which I am not able to recall.
I had this exact problem and TiVo Margret was able to have someone fix it...and I just now see TiVo Margret coming to the rescue!
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