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Old 06-15-2015, 07:08 PM   #1
howieumd
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MoCA Setup Help

Hi...I was wondering if somebody with some MoCA experience could help me out. I just can't get a stable connection and need it for TiVo to work right (1 Roamio Pro and 4 Mini's) as Ethernet has to go through switches the way my setup is and TiVo says switches don't play nice with TiVo Mini's.

I had Comcast X1 prior, so was already setup for that, but switched over to TiVo a few months back, as I was sick of unplugging the X1 boxes every other day to reboot them as they'd freeze up often. My cable layout from that Comcast setup is:

Line in from street --> MoCA POE filter --> Commscope CSAPDU9VP Amplifier -->then cables split off to each room.

The amplifier is also my splitter. It was added by Comcast for the finicky X1 platform that needed my power all in the same range and I think I needed a good boost to get there.

In my home office room, that's where my cable modem is, which is a Motorola SB6183 with 8 channels. I added a PCT 1-port bi-directional cable TV HDTV signal booster with passive return path right before the cable modem in the office, as it's gives up to a 15 db boost. My cable modem without it was getting around -9 to -11 db range on each channel and was ranging in speed from 90-110 mbps. After adding the booster, all channels are now in the 4 to 6 db range and I now get 165-180 mbps when connected directly through Ethernet to my PC, so it made a significant difference.

Per TiVo's suggestion, I bought the Actiontec ECB2500C adapter the other day to try to get MoCA working. I first plugged it in right before the PCT 1 port signal booster, and when I checked to see if I had internet, it wasn't making a connection. I took the signal booster out, and now have an internet connection, around 50 mbps just from taking an Ethernet cable directly to the MoCA adapter and testing it on my laptop. However, now my cable modem speeds are back down because I removed the signal booster. I think it may work with higher speeds if I put back the PCT 1 port signal booster and put the Actiontec adapter between it and the modem instead of in front of both. I haven't tried that yet, as I'm still troubleshooting the other issue (below) which is more important.

If I go to the room where my TiVo Roamio Pro is, it can now connect via MoCA to the internet and all seems to work fine on that box, verified by disconnecting the Ethernet cable from the Roamio and still having internet just through the coax. However, if I go to my Mini's, they still can't establish a connection through MoCA to the Roamio. This is the bigger problem, and why I'm here. My feeling is the Commscope CSAPDU9VP Amplifier might be the problem, as everything feeds back to that, as it acts as the splitter too. Am I right in thinking this? And if so, what other options do I have? It would seems as though I'd need some type of amplifier, but also need to have an 8 port splitter. This is where I need help, if this is what it sounds like is causing the issue for my other rooms Mini's not being able to connect over MoCA to the Roamio.

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Old 06-15-2015, 09:49 PM   #2
krkaufman
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Originally Posted by howieumd View Post
If I go to the room where my TiVo Roamio Pro is, it can now connect via MoCA to the internet and all seems to work fine on that box, verified by disconnecting the Ethernet cable from the Roamio and still having internet just through the coax.
If your Roamio Pro can connect to your Ethernet LAN, you shouldn't need that Actiontec MoCA adapter; your Roamio Pro could be used as your Ethernet/MoCA bridge device.

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Old 06-15-2015, 10:13 PM   #3
howieumd
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MoCA Setup Help

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Originally Posted by krkaufman View Post
If your Roamio Pro can connect to your Ethernet LAN, you shouldn't need that Actiontec MoCA adapter; your Roamio Pro could be used as your Ethernet/MoCA bridge device.

Thanks for the reply.

The Roamio Pro does connect to my Ethernet, and seems to play fine. However, I don't know that it's the best connection. My internet connection goes from the cable modem to a router then to the switch, all in my office, then an Ethernet wire from my office switch runs to a switch in the living room, which then feeds to my TiVo Roamio (as well as PS4, Receiver, TV IP port, AppleTV, Sonos, Control4 box, and another media player box I use for XBMC/Kodi).

TiVo said any switches are problems, and it goes through 2 to get there from my router. My 4 Mini locations are similar, meaning there's a single Ethernet cable going from that switch in the office to another switch at each of those 4 locations which feeds various A/V components in those rooms. The Mini's all have issues over Ethernet, which seems to backup what TiVo claims about switches. Over Ethernet, they all find and connect to the Roamio, but will get stuttering problems, occasional freezes, etc.

Thus, MoCA seems like the fix to avoid this, but if I set a Mini to use MoCA and disconnect the Ethernet cable so just the coax is connected to the Mini, it won't find the Roamio, or if one does find it, it only stays connected for a matter of minutes and then can't find it again. The Roamio is setup with both coax and Ethernet plugged in, and says MoCA+Ethernet connection, and I created the MoCA network with it in the Romio settings. I'd ideally like to get MoCA working just for TiVo purposes, but can't figure out why it won't work.


Last edited by howieumd; 06-15-2015 at 10:17 PM. Reason: x
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Old 06-15-2015, 11:55 PM   #4
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if I set a Mini to use MoCA and disconnect the Ethernet cable so just the coax is connected to the Mini, it won't find the Roamio, or if one does find it, it only stays connected for a matter of minutes and then can't find it again
It does sound as if your MoCA segment is unstable.

Do you currently NEED all 8 coax connections live? If not, could you temporarily swap-out the amplified splitter w/ a passive splitter you might have sitting around (i.e. one that supports MoCA frequencies)? Doing so seemed to help this guy over on the Comcast forums, who was using the same amplifier you are.

edit: Googling "CSAPDU9VP MoCA" turned-up this Commscope products page, which includes a features filter on the left side of the page. Of special note is that only ONE(1) of the devices is flagged as "MoCA-enhanced subscriber amplifier" -- and it isn't your model.

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Originally Posted by howieumd View Post
My feeling is the Commscope CSAPDU9VP Amplifier might be the problem, as everything feeds back to that, as it acts as the splitter too. Am I right in thinking this?
I'm thinking so.


Last edited by krkaufman; 06-16-2015 at 12:06 AM.
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Old 06-16-2015, 08:59 AM   #5
howieumd
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I'm thinking so.
I have 5 rooms where we watch TV, 4 of which are frequently used. Another port is taken up by the cable modem and another by the Comcast phone system. I don't NEED it all hooked up right now, so can test it out with some passive splitters. There's actually one port not being used on the amplifier and another one that must go to an empty cable outlet somewhere, as there's a few rooms that have cable wall outlets that don't have TV's in them. I thought all those were not hooked into the amplifier, but I count one extra port in use on the amplifier.

As for the amplifier itself, from the Commscope website, it looks like this one: CSMAPDU9VPI would be the proper one for MoCA. However, it doesn't seem like something that can be bought anywhere as I can't find it available for sale on any websites. That said, do you recommend any 8 port amplifiers that work good for MoCA that I can use?

Another thought, if only the Roamio Pro uses the actual outside cable signal, should I use a passive MoCA rated splitter after the POE as you recommended above, and then just amplify the one line after the splitter that goes to the Roamio Pro with a MoCA rated 1 port amplifier? I know I need some type of amplification based on what Comcast told me when they came out a few years back and put in this Commscope one.


Thanks again.

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Old 06-16-2015, 09:21 AM   #6
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"That said, do you recommend any 8 port amplifiers that work good for MoCA that I can use? "

http://pctcorporate.com/products-mai...mplifiers.html

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Old 06-16-2015, 09:30 AM   #7
howieumd
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"That said, do you recommend any 8 port amplifiers that work good for MoCA that I can use? "



http://pctcorporate.com/products-mai...mplifiers.html

Thank you. I was just actually on the same website looking at those. My final question is do I want the passive one or the unity gain one?

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Old 06-16-2015, 09:31 AM   #8
krkaufman
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"That said, do you recommend any 8 port amplifiers that work good for MoCA that I can use? "

http://pctcorporate.com/products-mai...mplifiers.html
For the one 8-port that's out of stock in the PCT store... there's eBay.

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Old 06-16-2015, 09:34 AM   #9
howieumd
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For the one 8-port that's out of stock in the PCT store... there's eBay.

Thanks! And that looks like the unity gain version, so that's the one to go with? Thanks again for the help!

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Old 06-16-2015, 09:40 AM   #10
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Thank you. I was just actually on the same website looking at those. My final question is do I want the passive one or the unity gain one?
"The passive modem bypass port supports critical applications,such as telephony, requiring high reliability networks toprovide uninterrupted service even in the event of poweroutages and / or amplifier failure"

This is their answer, but since a general loss of power takes out most devices including telephony modems and wireless phones, unless they are on a UPS, I wouldn't worry about it much unless it is critical that you maintain phone service for as long as possible after a power loss.

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Old 06-16-2015, 09:50 AM   #11
howieumd
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MoCA Setup Help

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Originally Posted by fcfc2 View Post
"The passive modem bypass port supports critical applications,such as telephony, requiring high reliability networks toprovide uninterrupted service even in the event of poweroutages and / or amplifier failure"



This is their answer, but since a general loss of power takes out most devices including telephony modems and wireless phones, unless they are on a UPS, I wouldn't worry about it much unless it is critical that you maintain phone service for as long as possible after a power loss.

There's always cell phone, don't use the landline much anyways. That said, it leads to another question. I think on the current amp, the VOIP port is used by the Comcast telephony modem. I think my Motorola SB cable modem is on one of the regular ports. Should that be reversed? Or, should both be off that one VOIP port with a MoCA rated 2 port splitter feeding each? I've read that the cable modem should be on the VOIP port, but that probably assumes the telephony modem is integrated with the Internet, as Comcast provides an all in one that I didn't want as my Motorola is much faster.


Last edited by howieumd; 06-16-2015 at 10:12 AM.
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Old 06-18-2015, 07:17 AM   #12
howieumd
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For the one 8-port that's out of stock in the PCT store... there's eBay.
Thanks for the help the other day. I'm about to get it setup with the new amp, but needed clarification on my last question, just so I can get this setup right: I think on the current amp, the VOIP port is used by the Comcast telephony modem. I think my Motorola SB cable modem is on one of the regular ports. Should that be reversed? Or, should both be off that one VOIP port with a MoCA rated 2 port splitter feeding each? I've read that the cable modem should be on the VOIP port, but that probably assumes the telephony modem is integrated with the Internet, as Comcast provides an all in one that I didn't want as my Motorola is much faster.

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Old 06-18-2015, 08:06 AM   #13
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Thanks for the help the other day. I'm about to get it setup with the new amp, but needed clarification on my last question, just so I can get this setup right: I think on the current amp, the VOIP port is used by the Comcast telephony modem. I think my Motorola SB cable modem is on one of the regular ports. Should that be reversed? Or, should both be off that one VOIP port with a MoCA rated 2 port splitter feeding each? I've read that the cable modem should be on the VOIP port, but that probably assumes the telephony modem is integrated with the Internet, as Comcast provides an all in one that I didn't want as my Motorola is much faster.
Hi again,
I am a bit confused. Are you using both the Motorola 6141 and Comcast's telephony modem? Is the Comcast modem just for phone service?
Regarding that 2nd amplifier, it should not be needed at all and is an indication that there is something seriously defective in your cabling. Given that you have been using it though, I would recommend using one of the powered ports to feed your modem and remove that second amp.
I would check that coax run to your modem and possibly replace the connectors to one of the new compression type or if the coax is not RG-6, replace it altogether. In fact, because you seem to need an amp right from the start, either your feed is poor or your entire coax is suspect.

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Old 06-18-2015, 11:22 AM   #14
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Hi again,
I am a bit confused. Are you using both the Motorola 6141 and Comcast's telephony modem? Is the Comcast modem just for phone service?
Regarding that 2nd amplifier, it should not be needed at all and is an indication that there is something seriously defective in your cabling. Given that you have been using it though, I would recommend using one of the powered ports to feed your modem and remove that second amp.
I would check that coax run to your modem and possibly replace the connectors to one of the new compression type or if the coax is not RG-6, replace it altogether. In fact, because you seem to need an amp right from the start, either your feed is poor or your entire coax is suspect.
Thanks again for the reply. I looked at the setup of the existing Commscope amp, which is still setup, as I'm expecting the new PCT amp to arrive later today. Yes, I have a telephone only modem for phone service, it's the Arris TM502G, that was left by Comcast. It's in the utility closet in my basement right near the Commscope amp, as that's where service comes into the house. For my internet service, I went with my own modem as opposed to using theirs, which is a Motorola Surfboard 6183. It has 8 channels and gets a lot faster speeds than the one Comcast wanted to give me. It's located up in my home office.

As for the setup, I was initially wrong. The Motorola SB is plugged into the -4db VOIP port of the amp. The Arris telephone only modem is plugged into one of the regular 8 ports of the amp.

Now, going back to the additional 1 port amp that I have right in front of the Motorola SB in the office. If I swap around ports on the Commscope and put the Motorola on one of the regular ports of the amp, and move the telephone modem to the -4db port, do you think I can eliminate the additional amp in my office?

The only reason I use that amp is because I read online that it's ideal to have power in the 6-10 db range, to get the best internet speeds. Without it, I was around -9 to -11 db per channel. I still got fast speeds, as mentioned, around 90-110 mbps through LAN. However, when I put that boost amp right in front of the modem, my power range per channel went between 4 - 6 db, and my speed went up to 160-185 mbps.

I honestly don't know what the -4db VOIP port on the Commscope does, that's just how Comcast set it up, but if I move the Motorola off that and put it on a regular port, do you think I can eliminate this extra 1 port amp in my office? I'll play around with it and check anyways. Thanks for the suggestion.

The cabling in the house should be fine. The house was built in 2005 and the addition where the office is was built in 2011, so it's not old cables, and was definitely the newest type available when they were added. I'll check the connectors though and switch them out if need be. I live about 500 feet off the street where Comcast main lines are run, and then about 300 feet from their closest box that they ran which feeds my neighbor and I as it's fed underground from that green box, which is why Comcast told me I needed the amp due to how far it's run from that box. They were getting -10 db range when tested right from the incoming line to the house, and for X1 said they needed to be around 7, which is what they got to after putting the amp in.


Last edited by howieumd; 06-18-2015 at 11:41 AM.
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Old 06-18-2015, 12:08 PM   #15
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Thanks again for the reply. I looked at the setup of the existing Commscope amp, which is still setup, as I'm expecting the new PCT amp to arrive later today. Yes, I have a telephone only modem for phone service, it's the Arris TM502G, that was left by Comcast. It's in the utility closet in my basement right near the Commscope amp, as that's where service comes into the house. For my internet service, I went with my own modem as opposed to using theirs, which is a Motorola Surfboard 6183. It has 8 channels and gets a lot faster speeds than the one Comcast wanted to give me. It's located up in my home office.

As for the setup, I was initially wrong. The Motorola SB is plugged into the -4db VOIP port of the amp. The Arris telephone only modem is plugged into one of the regular 8 ports of the amp.

Now, going back to the additional 1 port amp that I have right in front of the Motorola SB in the office. If I swap around ports on the Commscope and put the Motorola on one of the regular ports of the amp, and move the telephone modem to the -4db port, do you think I can eliminate the additional amp in my office?

The only reason I use that amp is because I read online that it's ideal to have power in the 6-10 db range, to get the best internet speeds. Without it, I was around -9 to -11 db per channel. I still got fast speeds, as mentioned, around 90-110 mbps through LAN. However, when I put that boost amp right in front of the modem, my power range per channel went between 4 - 6 db, and my speed went up to 160-185 mbps.

I honestly don't know what the -4db VOIP port on the Commscope does, that's just how Comcast set it up, but if I move the Motorola off that and put it on a regular port, do you think I can eliminate this extra 1 port amp in my office? I'll play around with it and check anyways. Thanks for the suggestion.

The cabling in the house should be fine. The house was built in 2005 and the addition where the office is was built in 2011, so it's not old cables, and was definitely the newest type available when they were added. I'll check the connectors though and switch them out if need be. I live about 500 feet off the street where Comcast main lines are run, and then about 300 feet from their closest box that they ran which feeds my neighbor and I as it's fed underground from that green box, which is why Comcast told me I needed the amp due to how far it's run from that box. They were getting -10 db range when tested right from the incoming line to the house, and for X1 said they needed to be around 7, which is what they got to after putting the amp in.
Ok,
After getting a better picture, I think you are ok even with the extra amp. I would give it a try without it though after you get your new amp. The unpowered /VOIP port I think is the same explaination as you got for your new amp, if you lose power, your telephone will work as long as the battery backup lasts. But this is a non-issue for me as a general lose of power will kill most modern phones anyway because the base unit needs ac or a ups of it's own.
The only thing I would consider if you get unsatifactory results without the second amp is that generally, you want to place the amp at a point where you still have a good/ strong signal. However, in your case that sounds like you would have it piggybacked right at the primary amp...I would try it without the second amp but reinstall it if you don't get good results. Trial and error.

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Old 06-18-2015, 12:46 PM   #16
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Ok,
After getting a better picture, I think you are ok even with the extra amp. I would give it a try without it though after you get your new amp. The unpowered /VOIP port I think is the same explaination as you got for your new amp, if you lose power, your telephone will work as long as the battery backup lasts. But this is a non-issue for me as a general lose of power will kill most modern phones anyway because the base unit needs ac or a ups of it's own.
The only thing I would consider if you get unsatifactory results without the second amp is that generally, you want to place the amp at a point where you still have a good/ strong signal. However, in your case that sounds like you would have it piggybacked right at the primary amp...I would try it without the second amp but reinstall it if you don't get good results. Trial and error.
I tried it out with switching the Motorola SB cable line from the -4 db VOIP port to a regular powered port and eliminated the second amp. My power improved to -6 to -8 db downstream range across the 16 channels (earlier I said 8 channels, meant 16). I get 160-165 mbps with this, so that's satisfactory for me. In another test, when leaving the second booster amp in place after switching the ports on main amp, I got it up to to 9 to 10 db range across the 16 channels, but it was maxing out around 175 mbps, which isn't a huge difference from without the second amp now. I'll see if the new amp still gives me similar power reading, and if so, will probably just go without the second amp. If I do need it, is it safe to assume I need a MoCA approved second amp, as the one I have now doesn't mention it's MoCA approved, or is it ok since it's just on that one line right before the modem? Thanks again for all your help.

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Old 06-18-2015, 01:02 PM   #17
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I tried it out with switching the Motorola SB cable line from the -4 db VOIP port to a regular powered port and eliminated the second amp. My power improved to -6 to -8 db downstream range across the 16 channels (earlier I said 8 channels, meant 16). I get 160-165 mbps with this, so that's satisfactory for me. In another test, when leaving the second booster amp in place after switching the ports on main amp, I got it up to to 9 to 10 db range across the 16 channels, but it was maxing out around 175 mbps, which isn't a huge difference from without the second amp now. I'll see if the new amp still gives me similar power reading, and if so, will probably just go without the second amp. If I do need it, is it safe to assume I need a MoCA approved second amp, as the one I have now doesn't mention it's MoCA approved, or is it ok since it's just on that one line right before the modem? Thanks again for all your help.
Hi,
As long as all that the second amp is only on the line feeding the cable modem, you should be good. The MoCA connection does not need the connection to the cable modem to be clear. A standard amp on that one line alone serves a similar function to a POE/ Whole Home DVR filter. No need to invest in another amp, yours will work fine if it is needed.

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Old 06-27-2015, 11:50 AM   #18
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Hi,

As long as all that the second amp is only on the line feeding the cable modem, you should be good. The MoCA connection does not need the connection to the cable modem to be clear. A standard amp on that one line alone serves a similar function to a POE/ Whole Home DVR filter. No need to invest in another amp, yours will work fine if it is needed.

Thanks again for your help! I received the new amp, installed it, and have a working MoCA! I did eliminate the second amp for the cable modem, as this new main amp has a little more power, my 16 cable modem channels are all in the -1 to 1 range, which is more than sufficient.

All that said, i still have one issue. My Roamio Pro and 4 Mini's all work seamless with live TV, recordings, Netflix, Amazon, and Hulu. However, Xfinity on Demand only will work on the Roamio Pro. On all 4 Mini's, once I select an XOD program to play, it just goes to a Please Wait screen. Any thoughts on why this is? XOD does work with Ethernet on occasion, but I get so many other issues with the stuttering or sometimes freezing, etc.

I think I prefer the MoCA setup at this point without XOD, but it'd be great if I can get that working too. Is my MoCA maybe a little weak? Any way to boost it? The only guess I have is XOD must take a little more power than the other streaming services. Thanks again.

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