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Old 03-16-2013, 01:44 PM   #211
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Until we reach the point where people don't like to see a movie on a ginormous screen, the download option will continue to be but a distant second choice.

It's not just the movie going fans that love the big screen: it's the actors and directors, too.

Aside from dazzling cinematography on a screen measured in dozens of feet and not mere inches, I suspect it feeds the narcissistic ego of many an actor to know their face is up on a screen, looming so large that their eyeballs are the size of a compact car.
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Old 03-16-2013, 01:50 PM   #212
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Your first point is dead on. Your second one is kind of stretch, if you're suggesting that's a reason why we still have movie theaters.
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Old 03-16-2013, 01:55 PM   #213
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Until we reach the point where people don't like to see a movie on a ginormous screen, the download option will continue to be but a distant second choice.

It's not just the movie going fans that love the big screen: it's the actors and directors, too.

Aside from dazzling cinematography on a screen measured in dozens of feet and not mere inches, I suspect it feeds the narcissistic ego of many an actor to know their face is up on a screen, looming so large that their eyeballs are the size of a compact car.
First, you should read some of the movie-going threads in here. Lots of people HATE going out to the movies, when they have a ginormous screen right in their living room with glorious sound. And there's nobody talking behind them.

And it's not up to the actors and directors... it's up to the bottom line. If the model makes a profit, it'll stick around. If it doesn't, it'll die out.
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Old 03-16-2013, 02:07 PM   #214
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I am one of those who dislike going to the movie theater, mostly because I am astounded at how rude and inconsiderate some people are.

Still, even though I have a giant 70 inch screen and a high end audio system capable of much better sound than most theaters, I have no doubt that many people still like movies on the big screen.

As you say, its up to the bottom line. But fueling that bottom line is still the social aspect of going to the movies, plus the sheer novelty of seeing the image on such a big screen.

The TV at home may be much much bigger than our parents' old set, but the home TV is still not measured in feet. If I could get rude people to stop sitting anywhere near me, I'd go to the movie theater far more often.
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Old 03-16-2013, 02:14 PM   #215
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I used to go to every movie out there. But now I'm extremely picky, just because of the ticket price. And I can talk back to the screen at home.

Not to turn this into a Theater vs. Home thread. I just think that's the trend lately (though I don't have numbers to back that up).
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Old 03-16-2013, 02:24 PM   #216
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I used to go to every movie out there. But now I'm extremely picky, just because of the ticket price. And I can talk back to the screen at home.

Not to turn this into a Theater vs. Home thread. I just think that's the trend lately (though I don't have numbers to back that up).
I share most of your feelings, I really do. However, I don't want my frugal nature and my dislike of the rude and inconsiderate in the theater to cause me to project those biases to the general population.

I believe I've read how ticket sales are not shrinking, at least by any great degree. I suppose there are people who want to be among the first to see a new release, and as long as that new release will be on a big screen, then that's where they'll be.

I figure on line distribution may end up completely supplanting the BluRay/DVD market.
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Old 03-16-2013, 02:46 PM   #217
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...and as long as that new release will be on a big screen, then that's where they'll be.
First-release is probably the biggest reason why movie theaters are still relevant. If movies came out simultaneously on streaming, blu-ray, DVD, and in theaters, I'll bet the revenue of the theaters would be way down.

With new funding and marketing strategies made possible by Kickstarter, there is no fundamental reason why movies would have to be released to theaters first.
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Old 03-16-2013, 03:18 PM   #218
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First, you should read some of the movie-going threads in here. Lots of people HATE going out to the movies, when they have a ginormous screen right in their living room with glorious sound. And there's nobody talking behind them.
Amen, brother. Preach on!

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The TV at home may be much much bigger than our parents' old set, but the home TV is still not measured in feet.
Mine is. 9 feet diagonal to be precise. I bought a projector so I wouldn't have to put up with the cretins that piss me off in the theater. As I described in a recent HH thread, I occasionally give the theater cretins another chance and they never fail to disappoint.

Common courtesy is dead (in movie theaters anyway).
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Old 03-16-2013, 04:11 PM   #219
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I certainly agree that theater civility has declined, although probably no more than general public civility has declined overall. But I also think that the rise of decent in-home viewing options has created sort of a me-first elitism that didn't used to exist, either. People have always talked, crunched popcorn, and kicked seats in movie theaters. We just weren't as intolerant of such behaviors before as we are now.
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Old 03-16-2013, 06:24 PM   #220
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I certainly agree that theater civility has declined, although probably no more than general public civility has declined overall. But I also think that the rise of decent in-home viewing options has created sort of a me-first elitism that didn't used to exist, either. People have always talked, crunched popcorn, and kicked seats in movie theaters. We just weren't as intolerant of such behaviors before as we are now.
This is also something I wondered. While the in-home movie experience can be preferable because of the rudeness in movies nowadays, I often wondered if the TV experience we have with families at home gave raise to the increased movie-going lack of group courtesy.

Think about it. At home, we multitask while watching TV. We call out to the spouse to ask for another snack. The kids argue about school or friends. Your daughter texts or chats on the phone. Or we discuss the plot holes or gaffes we spot.

Kids and young adults have been brought up to disregard that sort of entertainment experience as something to be watched quietly.

Sure, I suspect the home environment might be easier to deal with than the movie theater fro some. But I offer the home environment as at least one reason the movie experience is now so unpleasant.
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Old 03-17-2013, 05:52 AM   #221
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I hope this actually comes to fruition and you all get something for your money. The movie hasn't been written or filmed yet, it could be a very long time before you get your reward. What happens if they start filming and something falls through? You've already given your money over. What happens if the film goes over budget? Also, why don't backers get to participate in the profits of the film, if there are any? If I'm paying $35 for a DVD, I would want some sort of prorated share of the gross until I earn back my pledge minus the $10 it would cost to buy the film on my own.
As a self-professed veteran of Kickstarter, I'm surprised you're asking this question. Kickstarter projects can't offer any kind of ownership or equity stake, or even promise any kind of pro-rata return. If they did, then they'd be selling a security and would be subject to the VERY stringent regulations of the Securities Exchange Commission. Believe me, they do not want to even flirt with the possibility of this project being viewed as a security.

This is why the rewards portion of any KS project are so important, because backers know it's the only return they'll get.

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In addition, the cost to make this movie is not being covered by this kickstarter fundraising--it's just a techique used to raise awareness and attract other investors.

These other investors would like a return on their risk, too. If they have no way of recouping their investment, they won't back the project, no matter how much we all like Veronica Mars.

Investors don't usually put up money because they're fanboys and fangirls: the investors want to make money. A few paltry thousand subscriptions to a link, or a hundred thousand tickets ain't gonna do it.
The actual production cost of the movie is intended to be covered by the KS donations. Warner Bros. will cover other costs such as marketing, distribution, and promotion.

Having said that, I'm sure Rob Thomas wouldn't turn down additional investment if the success of the KS campaign raised awareness and attracted other investors.

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My guess is that this will be similar to "Doctor Horrible," in which everyone will make at or as close to scale as permitted by the union, but the contracts will be back-loaded to distribute some of profits (if any) back to the actors, crew, etc. That's the only way I can imagine a motion picture like this can be made for this little.

Scale is about as close to free as possible.
I have no doubt that the actors and others involved with the production won't see a dime until WB has recouped its costs for marketing, distribution, and promotion. And once/if that happens, there's still no guarantee. Hollywood studios are famous for their creative accounting practices to ensure that their films never "make money."

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I used to go to every movie out there. But now I'm extremely picky, just because of the ticket price. And I can talk back to the screen at home.

Not to turn this into a Theater vs. Home thread. I just think that's the trend lately (though I don't have numbers to back that up).
2012 was Hollywood's biggest year ever in terms of box-office revenue. While some of that can be attributed to higher ticket prices, it shows there is no shortage of people willing to pay to see a movie on the big screen. It will take a lot more than just big TVs and same-day availability to kill the movie theater business.
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Old 03-17-2013, 07:04 AM   #222
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This is why the rewards portion of any KS project are so important, because backers know it's the only return they'll get.
MAY get. As I'm sure you know, and as KS takes pains to point out, Kickstarter is not a store. There's no guarantee that a backer will receive anything at all. But otherwise your point is well taken.

I don't have much of any emotional investment in VM - I only saw a couple of episodes, but my wife was a big fan - so I don't expect the risk of disappointment as I had with Serenity. I will prefer to watch it at home rather than the unpleasant experience many theaters are now (with the exception of a delightful small local theater I always enjoy.)
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Old 03-17-2013, 09:00 AM   #223
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I will prefer to watch it at home rather than the unpleasant experience many theaters are now (with the exception of a delightful small local theater I always enjoy.)
Well, that theater may be where you get to see it, if it plays near you at all. Everything I'm reading suggests that this is going to be a very limited (number of screens and time) release.
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Old 03-17-2013, 09:14 AM   #224
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For the more hardcore fans out there, Rob T. tweeted that the publisher of Neptune Noir, a book of essays about VM, edited and with an introduction by Rob T., is donating 25% of the proceeds from sales of the book to the Kickstarter campaign. I had not heard of this book. It looks like critical essays rather than fan fiction.

$1.99 for the e-book on both Amazon and iTunes. (Or $11 for the paperback.)
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Old 03-17-2013, 10:37 AM   #225
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I never watched the last two episodes of VM. I didn't want to admit that it was over. Once they start shooting I will watch them.
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Old 03-17-2013, 10:54 AM   #226
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For the more hardcore fans out there, Rob T. tweeted that the publisher of Neptune Noir, a book of essays about VM, edited and with an introduction by Rob T., is donating 25% of the proceeds from sales of the book to the Kickstarter campaign. I had not heard of this book. It looks like critical essays rather than fan fiction.

$1.99 for the e-book on both Amazon and iTunes. (Or $11 for the paperback.)
Bought it, thanks!
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Old 03-17-2013, 12:10 PM   #227
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And I'm not sure Joss would be into it. I kinda feel like Joss said all that he wanted to say w/Buffy, unlike w/Firefly, for instance.
Well, sort of. I thought Joss was involved with the Buffy Season 8 (and season 9?) comic series.

If it was necessary for the VM move, I would be willing to believe Kristen Bell as a teenager. In the kickstarter video, I think she pretty much looks the same.
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Old 03-17-2013, 03:15 PM   #228
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As I understand it, the VM series ended with the main characters entering college. The movie could take place later.
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Old 03-17-2013, 03:43 PM   #229
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As I understand it, the VM series ended with the main characters entering college. The movie could take place later.
Veronica was a college freshman in the third and final season.

Rob T. described the setting for the movie in its Kickstarter project page.
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Old 03-17-2013, 04:17 PM   #230
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I certainly agree that theater civility has declined, although probably no more than general public civility has declined overall. But I also think that the rise of decent in-home viewing options has created sort of a me-first elitism that didn't used to exist, either. People have always talked, crunched popcorn, and kicked seats in movie theaters. We just weren't as intolerant of such behaviors before as we are now.
I certainly was (minus the popcorn munching I've never complained about that).

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This is also something I wondered. While the in-home movie experience can be preferable because of the rudeness in movies nowadays, I often wondered if the TV experience we have with families at home gave raise to the increased movie-going lack of group courtesy.

Think about it. At home, we multitask while watching TV. We call out to the spouse to ask for another snack. The kids argue about school or friends. Your daughter texts or chats on the phone. Or we discuss the plot holes or gaffes we spot.

Kids and young adults have been brought up to disregard that sort of entertainment experience as something to be watched quietly.

Sure, I suspect the home environment might be easier to deal with than the movie theater fro some. But I offer the home environment as at least one reason the movie experience is now so unpleasant.
Honestly, I thought this was obvious and everyone realized this (hence my "this is not your living room, a-hole" fantasy comment from a previous post in a HH thread).
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Old 03-17-2013, 09:53 PM   #231
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I never watched Veronica Mars when it was on. I grabbed the first season after hearing about the Kickstarter campaign. I think it's a great idea and serves the same purpose as self publishing on Kindle. It lets people with stories to tell get them out even if the big production or publishing houses aren't convinced it's good enough.

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Old 03-17-2013, 10:04 PM   #232
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Things have really slowed to a crawl. I think $4m will be a real stretch to get to.
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Old 03-17-2013, 11:06 PM   #233
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There's usually a big push near the end, as well.
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Old 03-18-2013, 12:58 AM   #234
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Things have really slowed to a crawl. I think $4m will be a real stretch to get to.
You really think that in the next 25 days they're going to have trouble raising another $400k? I think $5 mil might be a stretch, but $4 mil is a lock. Especially if they add new incentives and figure out how to open it up internationally.
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Old 03-18-2013, 08:06 AM   #235
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That all of the higher end incentives are gone doesn't help.
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:29 AM   #236
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I hadn't watched any of VM till this weekend. I watched the first 15 episodes Saturday and Sunday. I will probably join in the KS campaign.
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Old 03-18-2013, 10:10 AM   #237
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I mentioned some of this in the Kickstarter thread. I had barely heard of VM before the Kickstarter. I watched the first 3 episodes and don't plan on watching anymore. I don't think I've ever enjoyed a high school type TV show. Unless it has Superman or vampires. Even then, I often fast forward thru the relationship stuff.
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Old 03-18-2013, 10:56 AM   #238
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I mentioned some of this in the Kickstarter thread. I had barely heard of VM before the Kickstarter. I watched the first 3 episodes and don't plan on watching anymore. I don't think I've ever enjoyed a high school type TV show. Unless it has Superman or vampires. Even then, I often fast forward thru the relationship stuff.
The thing is, it's not really a "high school" show. The real hook to the show is the noir-like setting of the fictional town of Neptune, CA, with the conflicts between haves and have-nots, the tawdry scandals, murder, etc. The high school is just a framework within the story, a microcosm of the town if you will. (In fact, by the end of season 2, Veronica graduates from high school, and we never hear about it anymore.)

Take, for instance, the DVD intro that isn't on the cut-down broadcast version of the first episode, or on the versions that stream on the internet. It really does a very good job of setting the feeling for the show as a whole:
Veronica Mars S01E01 Extended Intro


The first two seasons have a single overarching mystery. If you've seen the first few episodes, then you know the first season is "who killed Lily Kane." There's another mystery that takes place in season 2 that I won't say much more about, other than to say that like the Lily Kane murder, it involves a high school student, it doesn't necessarily have to do with the high school.
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:13 AM   #239
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High school is the setting, but it's not a "high-school-type" show by any normal measure. But that's OK -- not everything has to be for everybody.

For me, all this got me to get out my season 1 discs late last week to watch them again, for the first time in several years. I remembered it being really good, of course, but I'm surprised how strong I find the material now. And Kristen Bell may never find a better role... she has turned out to be kind of a dingbat in real life (but a lovable one), but she wears this role like a glove. It's a pleasure to watch her as Veronica.
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:16 AM   #240
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But that's OK -- not everything has to be for everybody.
True enough, I wasn't really trying to change anyone's mind. I just wanted to clarify what type of show it really was.
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