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Old 03-15-2013, 02:13 PM   #31
wmhjr
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Originally Posted by jrtroo View Post
It appears you are confusing live tv with streams from the premiere. They are totally different.

Or- you wrote your initial question poorly, as you say Using a tuner requires live TV.
No, I am not confusing it. I'm just trying to get a straight answer about what the mini can and can not do. As stated (several times) I called Tivo twice and got very consistent answers from each representative. That is, that the mini can only see content on the 4 tuner Premier that it has selected as its tuner "host" and not the other premiers that may or may not be on the network. Second, that the Tivo reps referenced connecting up to 9 tuners to an XL4.

I assumed myself that live TV would be limited to available tuners but really had not thought through the details on that one. What I had not thought about specifically is whether multiple mini's on an XL4 for example would somehow be "allowed" to consume more tuners if they simultaneously wanted to get to live TV.

I'll say it again - Tivo has really done a very very poor job in adequately describing the characteristics of this product. Whether or not the product is great or terrible is a different discussion. For me, it's a non-starter assuming it cannot stream from multiple Premiers. Since people here are saying this is not true but Tivo has stated emphatically that the mini cannot, then I have to assume that it won't until Tivo states it clearly. Otherwise, it's a "feature" that might be a mistake that could disappear at any time.
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Old 03-15-2013, 02:17 PM   #32
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That is the answer I expected. And given that, it seems to me that the idea of a single Tivo multi-tuner box hosting multiple mini's is not actually practical unless people are willing to essentially go back to the old days.

I'm not even sure how this would work out in practice. People in this forum have talked about 6 mini's connected to a single xl4. The Tivo rep two days ago mentioned NINE!!!

I think there is quite a bit of confusion as to the true capability and use case of the mini. Clearly, asking Tivo has resulted in answers different than people here are claiming. In either case, I still maintain that for me it's really not much of a bargain, and still a step back from what cable providers have been delivering for years.
The Mini's don't work quite the same as regular TiVos. They don't default to live TV. They have a screen saver for their default. You have to specifically request live TV via the menu or by pressing the live TV button. At which point it checks with the host to see if there is a free tuner and if there is grabs it. If not you get an error.

If you go back into the TiVo menus it releases the tuner back to the host immediately. It also releases the tuner automatically if there has been no input from the remote for 1.5 hours.

So the only time it's really a problem is if you're actually using more then 2 Minis to watch live TV at the same time. If not then 2 tuners could easily be shared by 9 Minis.

There are other limitations imposed on streaming as well that would cause an issue. A single TiVo can never have more then 3 out going streams at a time. So if you had 9 Minis you'd still never be able to use more then 3 at any one moment even for regular streaming, not just live TV.

There is some evidence that suggests that TiVo is working on a new 6 tuner unit which will be available later this year. It will likely be able to dedicate more tuners to Minis and probably support more outgoing streams. Although I still expect the limit to be 4 or less.

If you really need 9 Minis then you'd need at least 3 host units for them to connect to.
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Old 03-15-2013, 02:30 PM   #33
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Dan, thanks for this response. It answers at least part of the question for me. I will say that this part does not go toward my lack of interest - the biggest question I have remains the multi-premier streaming to a single mini question. I've seen some posts on this site that show that people have gotten it to work but Tivo always indicates that it is restricted to one. I'm very reluctant to assume things work that Tivo themselves deny or do not understand. Frankly, my experience is that the things they say SHOULD work can be problematic enough that I don't want to go outside of that scope.
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Old 03-15-2013, 02:36 PM   #34
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That works fine. It can even stream from 2 tuner units.

When you're using the Mini it's basically a reflection of the host unit. It has a My Shows list which looks identical to the host TiVo. And at the bottom of that list you can select your other TiVos and pick shows from them as well. (premiere units only)
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Old 03-15-2013, 02:38 PM   #35
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Thank you. Seems as though Tivo needs to do a much better job training their own representatives. Maybe I need to reconsider whether a mini "might" help in my case. Right now, I'd still say probably no, but this is a much better situation than what the Tivo people said.
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Old 03-15-2013, 02:46 PM   #36
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What is your situation?
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Old 03-15-2013, 02:56 PM   #37
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Are you sure about that cost of the additional CableCard? We're in the same market, and I was charged $9.95/month two years ago when I had a CableCard for another device. Of course you may not be a Comcast customer, but they have the majority of the market in Atlanta.
Yea, I am with Comcast and I know what you are talking about at $9.95 though as this is what I used to get charged for some additional ones. And several threads on this board have talked about how AWFUL the Comcast billing is and how inconsistent it is.

The way it is SUPPOSE to work is the first device is free. Cable card or Comcast box. The 2nd cable card in the SAME DEVICE (i.e. Series 3 TiVo) is only a $1.50/month. Then, any additional cable card is an "outlet fee" at $9.95/month with a $2.50 "equipment credit". I have my first two cable cards in two totally different Premieres and they don't really have any way of knowing they are two different boxes. I told them they are both in the same box & they just took my word for it so they just kept charging me $1.50 for the extra one.

That is Comcast for you.
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Old 03-15-2013, 03:42 PM   #38
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What is your situation?
Large house. Fully CAT6 enabled (16 port gig switch). Very solid RG6 cable plant.

Very diverse viewing interests.

Want live capability where each display is.

Need a minimum of 6 tuners available plus live TV

Want to be able to watch recorded content on one device in a room, stop, and then resume from that stopped point in another room.

Must be able to see all recorded content on all devices.

Concerned about device failure (currently have XL4, Premier, and HD - and a retired HD. Every single device except the "newest" one (premier) has failed and required replacement. This includes retired devices, such as retired HD and boxes I no longer have. Not just hard drives, but....)

Existing Tivo performance is "so-so". XL4 is pretty lethargic to be honest. It's the slowest device in the house by far.

Given this, replacing the HD and premier with another XL4 and a mini "might" work.

Concerns:

Software. Every new Tivo I've gotten has had more defects for the first 6 months at least than I'm comfortable with.

Speed. Not sure in practice how fast the mini will really be. I've seen some strange things.

Support. When I'm getting what appears to be clearly incorrect info about the product directly from Tivo - twice - I'm less than enthused about taking a chance on the product.

Digital Rights Management: Will I be able to view Amazon instant downloads recorded on XL4 through mini? Important because I won't be able to get Amazon via Mini, right?

This is kind of it in a nutshell at the moment.

Last edited by wmhjr : 03-15-2013 at 03:50 PM.
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Old 03-15-2013, 03:46 PM   #39
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I think it would be great if TiVo sold subscriptions for the Mini software so it could just be run from the Roku box...

This the best response ever. Turn Tivo into true dlna. Then any internet connected tv could become tivo, including roku type boxes.
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Old 03-15-2013, 03:50 PM   #40
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How could it use one tuner to provide the work of five tuners? And why on earth would all of these folks be watching Live TV if you have a Tivo with lots of content to choose from?
LOL. I was wondering how long it would take for someone to actually read that ridiculous post. Obviously it would be horribly impractical, but I wonder if it is possible to tune the 3 HD's that are in one QAM with one tuner if someone had the right software? Kind of like DISH is doing with PTAT, getting 4 channels off of one TP with one tuner.

If you only have 3-4 people, 9 minis and one Premiere XL4 might do the trick, just to move stuff to different locations.

What I do wonder, is can 3 Mini's all watch the same channel live off of one tuner? I'm thinking no, but I don't see what it's a technical impossibility. Or, could one start a recording, go to live, and then the others do the same?

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That is Comcast for you.
Yeah, Comcast is insane. Their systems are all different, they have different capabilities, different lineups, different problems.

For the CableCards, where it's real murky is, would two Ceton cards on an MCE PC be one device? What about two HDHR's in a network closet somewhere feeding the same PC? But what if you have the 6-tuner version that has a single power supply with two units?
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Old 03-15-2013, 03:53 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by wmhjr View Post
Large house. Fully CAT6 enabled (16 port gig switch). Very solid RG6 cable plant.

Very diverse viewing interests.

Want live capability where each display is.

Need a minimum of 6 tuners available plus live TV

Want to be able to watch recorded content on one device in a room, stop, and then resume from that stopped point in another room.

Must be able to see all recorded content on all devices.

Concerned about device failure (currently have XL4, Premier, and HD - and a retired HD. Every single device except the "newest" one (premier) has failed and required replacement. Not just hard drives, but....)

Existing Tivo performance is "so-so". XL4 is pretty lethargic to be honest. It's the slowest device in the house by far.

Given this, replacing the HD and premier with another XL4 and a mini "might" work.

Concerns:

Software. Every new Tivo I've gotten has had more defects for the first 6 months at least than I'm comfortable with.

Speed. Not sure in practice how fast the mini will really be. I've seen some strange things.

Support. When I'm getting what appears to be clearly incorrect info about the product directly from Tivo - twice - I'm less than enthused about taking a chance on the product.

Digital Rights Management: Will I be able to view Amazon instant downloads recorded on XL4 through mini? Important because I won't be able to get Amazon via Mini, right?

This is kind of it in a nutshell at the moment.
My recommendation... Wait for the 6 tuner unit to be released then put one of them in the main viewing area and Mini's everywhere else. The 6 tuner unit should have faster hardware and the Mini software should be fully realized by then.

Also invest in UPSes for every room. I've had dozens of TiVos over the last 13 years and only two failures. But all of my TiVos have always been connected to a UPS. Power fluctuation are the enemy of electronics.
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Old 03-15-2013, 10:08 PM   #42
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Ummm, please review post #18 in this thread.

I've called Tivo twice. According to others in this particular thread, the information provided by both of those TiVo representatives was not correct.
He was being sarcastic since you're apparently being very dismissive of people giving you data based upon their own experiences with the hardware and/or their likely higher knowledge of the subject than random people on a phone help line.

Should one be skeptical of stuff they read on the Internet? Of course, but eventually you can figure out who's giving you good info and who isn'tů Especially, dismissing them AND THEN immediately asking for more information is what gets those sorts of responses.
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Old 03-16-2013, 03:20 AM   #43
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If you go back into the TiVo menus it releases the tuner back to the host immediately. It also releases the tuner automatically if there has been no input from the remote for 1.5 hours.
I wish there was a way to configure this. I would like to have the live tv option last for at least 2 hours, preferably 3.
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Old 03-16-2013, 03:08 PM   #44
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My recommendation... Wait for the 6 tuner unit to be released then put one of them in the main viewing area and Mini's everywhere else. The 6 tuner unit should have faster hardware and the Mini software should be fully realized by then.

Also invest in UPSes for every room. I've had dozens of TiVos over the last 13 years and only two failures. But all of my TiVos have always been connected to a UPS. Power fluctuation are the enemy of electronics.
Thank, appreciate the advice, however I don't think I'd ever be comfortable with a 6 tuner master. Too much risk of a single device (the 6 tuner) failing and then I have absolutely nothing. No content retained, no ability to use any TV whatsoever. I realize that YMMV, however as I've mentioned, every single Tivo I've ever owned with the exception of the most recent Premier, has failed within 12 months of purchase. Yes, Tivo has replaced them all, but that also means lost content and time. In that same period, the same exact Verizon DVR is still running without an error. The Tivos are a much better interface, but frankly they have been astoundingly unreliable in my experience. I will always have at least two "masters" in order to prevent a situation where the loss of a single device takes out my entire system.

Also, a single 6 tuner plus minis would not give me 6 available tuners PLUS Live TV. I'll still need at least two actual Tivo DVRs.

BTW, I already have good UPSs on every single Tivo. I've done that from the start. Interestingly, I've done that against the advice of Tivo, who with my HDs, said that the UPS could be causing some of the early software issues. Tivo support actually told me several times that I should not be using UPSs. Of course, that is advice I would not accept.

Not sure if I can wait until 6 tuners. I'm monthly (not lifetime) on 2 of my 3 devices, and the monthly fees are killing me. I need to move to lifetime or do something else. The mini has some potential but i'll still need at least two 4 tuners.

I do appreciate the response.
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Old 03-16-2013, 03:11 PM   #45
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He was being sarcastic since you're apparently being very dismissive of people giving you data based upon their own experiences with the hardware and/or their likely higher knowledge of the subject than random people on a phone help line.

Should one be skeptical of stuff they read on the Internet? Of course, but eventually you can figure out who's giving you good info and who isn't… Especially, dismissing them AND THEN immediately asking for more information is what gets those sorts of responses.
No, I'm not being dismissive. What I am doing is not depending on feature/functions that Tivo themselves dismiss and say are not supported. Because if I do that, and then those features/functions are eliminated by Tivo, I have no recourse. That is a totally prudent and reasonable strategy.

Further, I expect Tivo to know the core and base capabilities of their own product. I don't think that's too much to expect. Perhaps my expectations are too high.

And, BTW, this was not a "random help line". This was Tivo sales. I expect them to know what their product is supposed to do. What it is marketed to do. What they are committing that it will do. And when two different calls, to two different reps, results in very consistent answers that are contrary to what people are saying here, then it's reasonable to be cautious.
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Old 03-16-2013, 11:04 PM   #46
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I ordered a TiVo Mini yesterday for the master bedroom. I currently have a Comcast DVR in there that I'm paying $9.95 per month for, plus I hate the user interface. The Comcast DVR is going back to save the $9.95 towards the Mini. I currently have two TiVo's with cable cards and the cards are free. This will be perfect for me

Be careful with this. I have seen SEVERAL people do something similar thinking they will come out ahead when in fact they wind up paying MORE cause they are basically breaking up some sort of Comcast bundled service that normally includes hardware too.

Take away the hardware (Comcast DVR), and they could wind up pricing EVERYTHING individually. Just a thought.
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Old 03-17-2013, 06:46 PM   #47
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Be careful with this. I have seen SEVERAL people do something similar thinking they will come out ahead when in fact they wind up paying MORE cause they are basically breaking up some sort of Comcast bundled service that normally includes hardware too.

Take away the hardware (Comcast DVR), and they could wind up pricing EVERYTHING individually. Just a thought.
This is usually not the case, only with specific triple-play packages.
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Old 03-18-2013, 03:03 AM   #48
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The OP is annoying. I agree with the other guy..call tivo since you obviously don't trust the "Internet people" here who actually use the device. I mean after all... If they work for tivo they HAVE TO know absolutely everything about it right? RRRIIGGHHTTT??!
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Old 03-18-2013, 08:44 AM   #49
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The OP is annoying. I agree with the other guy..call tivo since you obviously don't trust the "Internet people" here who actually use the device. I mean after all... If they work for tivo they HAVE TO know absolutely everything about it right? RRRIIGGHHTTT??!
Amazing. Whatever. So you don't find it disconcerting that two different sales reps would have totally incorrect descriptions of what the product could do? And that they would both emphatically state that the Mini could ONLY see the content on the "host" device? So that is your definition of "know(ing) absolutely everything about it"?

Sorry if I've been burned by trusting random people who have "made something work" on forums which is in conflict with what the manufacturer has endorsed before. Some of those handy little "features" often have a mysterious way of evaporating, since the product disclaimer up front was that it would not do "whatever" feature/function to begin with. I can see my expectation that a very simple and common feature explanation should be able to be described by the people designing, manufacturing, selling and supporting the product is too high a bar for you
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Old 03-18-2013, 08:55 AM   #50
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Amazing. Whatever. So you don't find it disconcerting that two different sales reps would have totally incorrect descriptions of what the product could do? And that they would both emphatically state that the Mini could ONLY see the content on the "host" device? So that is your definition of "know(ing) absolutely everything about it"?

Sorry if I've been burned by trusting random people who have "made something work" on forums which is in conflict with what the manufacturer has endorsed before. Some of those handy little "features" often have a mysterious way of evaporating, since the product disclaimer up front was that it would not do "whatever" feature/function to begin with. I can see my expectation that a very simple and common feature explanation should be able to be described by the people designing, manufacturing, selling and supporting the product is too high a bar for you
No I don't. Most phone reps don't really care about whatever product they are helping with. It's just a job and they do what is required to get by. The fact that you expect them all to be pros when I bet half of them don't even use tivos at home is ridiculous and shows total lack of critical thinking on your part. And to discount the people's opinions here who most of them OWN AND really care for their tivos so therefore will always be more knowledgeable than some phone reps again speaks volumes about you.


You must have a fun time at best buy whenever you go shopping for something. I mean...if they work at best buy they have to know everything about all tech right? Anyways I'm done with this thread. Good luck and have faith in people. We are not all out to get you. You seem like someone who watches cable tv news and believes everything they say without doing any thinking about it if its true or not...after all if its on TV it HAS to be true.
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:17 AM   #51
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So back to a more rational discussion, since (thankfully) dsnotgood is done with this thread.... (even though I think he has failed to read the thread and somehow thinks I'm the OP when I'm not....

Has anybody seen anything directly from Tivo that addresses specifically the access to now playing recordings from multiple Tivos on a network rather than from the single "host" 4 tuner premier? I spent a good deal of time looking around the Tivo product and support material on their site and found one relatively obscure reference that seemed to insinuate that they believe it works on multiples? Again - I am NOT dismissing any experiences of Tivo owners here. I am simply trying to determine if this is or is not a stated capability of the mini. Tivo is spending a great deal of time and effort marketing this device, and frankly it is so geared toward (IMHO) a single multi-tuner device with multiple mini devices attached that I remain very cautious. I don't want to spend money on a device that may or may not end up with limited capability.

BTW, I still maintain that it is absolutely NOT unreasonable to expect Tivo sales and support people to be able to accurately answer this question. Frankly, contrary to the previous poster, I find it ludicrous to compare wanting clarification and confirmation from the vendor in question to simply only "watching cable news". That post is not only offensive, but it is without any possible logic on this planet.
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Old 03-18-2013, 12:09 PM   #52
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So back to a more rational discussion, since (thankfully) dsnotgood is done with this thread.... (even though I think he has failed to read the thread and somehow thinks I'm the OP when I'm not....

Has anybody seen anything directly from Tivo that addresses specifically the access to now playing recordings from multiple Tivos on a network rather than from the single "host" 4 tuner premier? I spent a good deal of time looking around the Tivo product and support material on their site and found one relatively obscure reference that seemed to insinuate that they believe it works on multiples? Again - I am NOT dismissing any experiences of Tivo owners here. I am simply trying to determine if this is or is not a stated capability of the mini. Tivo is spending a great deal of time and effort marketing this device, and frankly it is so geared toward (IMHO) a single multi-tuner device with multiple mini devices attached that I remain very cautious. I don't want to spend money on a device that may or may not end up with limited capability.

BTW, I still maintain that it is absolutely NOT unreasonable to expect Tivo sales and support people to be able to accurately answer this question. Frankly, contrary to the previous poster, I find it ludicrous to compare wanting clarification and confirmation from the vendor in question to simply only "watching cable news". That post is not only offensive, but it is without any possible logic on this planet.
Read this section


"How do I watch recorded content from the host DVR or other Premiere series DVRs on TiVo Mini"

http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/...lkLzJaQ0didWxs
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Old 03-18-2013, 12:13 PM   #53
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Has anybody seen anything directly from Tivo that addresses specifically the access to now playing recordings from multiple Tivos on a network rather than from the single "host" 4 tuner premier? I spent a good deal of time looking around the Tivo product and support material on their site and found one relatively obscure reference that seemed to insinuate that they believe it works on multiples? Again - I am NOT dismissing any experiences of Tivo owners here. I am simply trying to determine if this is or is not a stated capability of the mini..
In their Tivo Mini Troubleshooting page there are sections for "I am experiencing playback issues while streaming content from my host DVR or another DVR on my network" and "I am unable to stream recordings from my host DVR or another DVR on my network". Directly from Tivo describing streaming content from the host DVR or another DVR on the network which is what you're asking proof for. Good enough?

Oops - Cherry Ghost has a much better reference and beat me by 4 minutes

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Old 03-18-2013, 12:57 PM   #54
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Yeah, that's what I found too, but remain worried that when explicitly asked, they deny support for viewing content on any box other than the "host" premier. I just tried for kicks calling weakknees and asked the same specific question. They said no, it is not intended to play or stream content from any premier other than the 4 tuner Premier that it is using as its host. That was less than 5 minutes ago.

Look guys, I know this sounds crazy. However like I said, I think lots of us have in the past been burned by a feature/function in different devices that is not explicitly advertised about a product, and then when there are issues, they have been denied support, etc. I am astounded that if they truly intended to support this functionality that they would not clearly indicate it. Their failure/reluctance to do so and the fact that it's not just me that they're telling "no" to makes me very cautious.
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Old 03-18-2013, 01:49 PM   #55
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Yeah, that's what I found too, but remain worried that when explicitly asked, they deny support for viewing content on any box other than the "host" premier. I just tried for kicks calling weakknees and asked the same specific question. They said no, it is not intended to play or stream content from any premier other than the 4 tuner Premier that it is using as its host. That was less than 5 minutes ago.

Look guys, I know this sounds crazy. However like I said, I think lots of us have in the past been burned by a feature/function in different devices that is not explicitly advertised about a product, and then when there are issues, they have been denied support, etc. I am astounded that if they truly intended to support this functionality that they would not clearly indicate it. Their failure/reluctance to do so and the fact that it's not just me that they're telling "no" to makes me very cautious.
I'm definitely able to use both my TiVo Minis to watch recorded content from my now OTA only Premiere.(I turned my Cable Card in Saturday)
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Old 03-18-2013, 01:49 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by wmhjr View Post
Yeah, that's what I found too, but remain worried that when explicitly asked, they deny support for viewing content on any box other than the "host" premier. I just tried for kicks calling weakknees and asked the same specific question. They said no, it is not intended to play or stream content from any premier other than the 4 tuner Premier that it is using as its host. That was less than 5 minutes ago.

Look guys, I know this sounds crazy. However like I said, I think lots of us have in the past been burned by a feature/function in different devices that is not explicitly advertised about a product, and then when there are issues, they have been denied support, etc. I am astounded that if they truly intended to support this functionality that they would not clearly indicate it. Their failure/reluctance to do so and the fact that it's not just me that they're telling "no" to makes me very cautious.

So that's what you were referring to earlier when you said you "found one relatively obscure reference that seemed to insinuate that they believe it works on multiples"? It says, "You can stream recorded content to TiVo Mini from not only your host DVR, but from any other Premiere series on the same account and network." I think that's pretty clear.

At this point, maybe it's time to call TiVo a third time and reference that support page.
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Old 03-18-2013, 02:08 PM   #57
tatergator1
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It's your right to be cautious. I think you're just giving Tivo's support staff too much credit. This product is brand new and they were just recently trained on this. As part of the training, you can be sure "you need a 4-tuner box" was drilled into their heads, perhaps to too great of a degree that they are now confusing the needs for a 4-tuner host with the ability to stream from 2-tuner boxes.

Hopefully Tivo support will gain some clarity on this particular issue. You could also post over on forums.tivo.com and see what sort of response you get from the support staff that monitors their forum. They seem to be more knowledgeable than the lower-level support.
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Old 03-18-2013, 02:19 PM   #58
wmhjr
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Originally Posted by cherry ghost View Post
So that's what you were referring to earlier when you said you "found one relatively obscure reference that seemed to insinuate that they believe it works on multiples"? It says, "You can stream recorded content to TiVo Mini from not only your host DVR, but from any other Premiere series on the same account and network." I think that's pretty clear.

At this point, maybe it's time to call TiVo a third time and reference that support page.
Yes, I think that's obscure since you have to root around to find it rather than being shown as a capability. Coincidentally, I did just that. Interestingly, they replied with the same reply (at least to this point). They said that the mini is only supposed to be able to see recorded content on the 4 tuner premier that it is attached to, and to see content on other premiers, you would need to "transfer" the content from the non-4 tuner host to the 4 tuner host, and then view it on the mini. I pointed out this exact support page statement and got a scratched head confused response, and then a ticket number.

I find it very interesting that every single time that I ask this question of Tivo (and Weakknees) I get a very very specific answer in that streaming from the "non-host" is not supported. Every time I get an answer that you're supposed to "transfer" the content to the "host" unit. Clearly people here who actually have the device are experiencing something different. I get that. The question is whether or not that functionality will be supported moving forward or not. Is it "official"?

I think the fact that there is now even a reference number/ticket associate with this issue, and that not only have 4 different Tivo folks at this point responded that the ability to "stream" from other premiers on the network is not supported, and the fact that Weakknees reports being trained/familiarized with the product the same way, is reason enough to push this, no? Seriously - I just don't want to get "orphaned" by a questionable device with a non-advertised feature/function ending up being eliminated later (apparently much like some initial mini users started out with the ability to "manage" things that ended up going away).
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Old 03-18-2013, 02:26 PM   #59
wmhjr
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Originally Posted by tatergator1 View Post
It's your right to be cautious. I think you're just giving Tivo's support staff too much credit. This product is brand new and they were just recently trained on this. As part of the training, you can be sure "you need a 4-tuner box" was drilled into their heads, perhaps to too great of a degree that they are now confusing the needs for a 4-tuner host with the ability to stream from 2-tuner boxes.

Hopefully Tivo support will gain some clarity on this particular issue. You could also post over on forums.tivo.com and see what sort of response you get from the support staff that monitors their forum. They seem to be more knowledgeable than the lower-level support.
I agree with you. I am, however, very surprised if this was just a training issue, as every single rep I've talked to so far - as well as the techs that they put me on hold for to ask questions - have responded exactly the same.

You would think that were Tivo even remotely effective in releasing this product, a multi-DVR scenario would be part of the training. After all, the only two options are

1) Single 4 tuner Premier

2) Multiple Premiers including at least 1 4 tuner model.

Nothing else should work - or at least they should be clear about that.

Seems pretty simple to me.... That's why the caution. They have even repeated insisting that you can't even stream from multiple 4 tuner premiers. Crazy.

One question for those of you who have one. Anybody using one that would normally use optical out for sound? How do you deal with only HDMI if the sound in your flat panel is not sufficiently loud? I'm sure there's a solution - just not sure what it is yet.

If what you folks using them today turns out to be their "official" support and marketing posture, then the mini isn't a bad deal and has some value to me as well. If not, then it's a non-starter for me at least. I seriously hope it's just a training and marketing screw-up.
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Old 03-18-2013, 02:31 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by wmhjr View Post
Thank, appreciate the advice, however I don't think I'd ever be comfortable with a 6 tuner master. Too much risk of a single device (the 6 tuner) failing and then I have absolutely nothing. No content retained, no ability to use any TV whatsoever. I realize that YMMV, however as I've mentioned, every single Tivo I've ever owned with the exception of the most recent Premier, has failed within 12 months of purchase. Yes, Tivo has replaced them all, but that also means lost content and time. In that same period, the same exact Verizon DVR is still running without an error. The Tivos are a much better interface, but frankly they have been astoundingly unreliable in my experience. I will always have at least two "masters" in order to prevent a situation where the loss of a single device takes out my entire system.

Also, a single 6 tuner plus minis would not give me 6 available tuners PLUS Live TV. I'll still need at least two actual Tivo DVRs.

BTW, I already have good UPSs on every single Tivo. I've done that from the start. Interestingly, I've done that against the advice of Tivo, who with my HDs, said that the UPS could be causing some of the early software issues. Tivo support actually told me several times that I should not be using UPSs. Of course, that is advice I would not accept.
I have owned about 30 TiVos in the last 13 years, of various makes and models. I have had 3 failures ever...

I had a hard drive die in a S2, but it did so slowly so I was able to get the shows off before it failed completely.

I had an eSATA drive connected to a S3 die, but also slowly so I was able to get most of the stuff off that as well.

I had the power supply in a S3 go bad which causes a problem with one of the CableCARD slots but did not effect any of the recordings already on the box so I was able to get everything off of it as well.

Not once have I had one die and cause me to lose everything. If you have that problem as frequently as you say then you might want to test the wiring in your house because that is not normal.

And honestly, to me, TV shows are not that important. If my TiVo died and I lost everything I'd be slightly upset, but it's not the end of the world. These days pretty much every show could be gotten from an alternative source so it's not like I couldn't recover them anyway. The convenience of having everything stored on a single unit, with a single My Shows and single To Do List outweighs any risk of failure in my mind.
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