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Old 04-01-2014, 10:21 AM   #241
neo_ny
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Originally Posted by tatergator1 View Post
It's likely the Tivo representative was confused or misunderstood that you would connect the Roamio Basic directly to your router via Ethernet. If Ethernet wasn't available for the Roamio Basic, you would have needed the one MoCA adapter.

Maybe .. hopefully I will be able to return them if I don't need them! Is connection via MoCa adapter preferred over direct ethernet or vice versa? Any other considerations I need to take into account? TIA
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Old 04-01-2014, 10:23 AM   #242
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Maybe .. hopefully I will be able to return them if I don't need them! Is connection via MoCa adapter preferred over direct ethernet or vice versa? Any other considerations I need to take into account? TIA
Ethernet is best, but MoCA usually works well as long as your coax wiring is good. You could keep the extra MoCA adapter as a backup, in case you ever decide to move the Roamio away from the router, or in case the built-in MoCA adapter on the Mini craps out, or if you ever want to hard wire any other internet devices via MoCA rather than doing WiFi.
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Old 04-01-2014, 12:31 PM   #243
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The tuning adapter doesn't actually "tune" the channel in the traditional sense. The tuners are located in the Roamio not the tuning adapter. The tuning adapter just sends the signal out to request that a SDV channel be sent through. Once that channel is being sent through, it is tuned in by the Roamio in the same way that any other non-SDV channel is tuned.

The only communication that takes place between the Roamio and the tuning adapter is through the USB cable. That's why the RF out port on the tuning adapter isn't needed, because absolutely no communication between the 2 devices takes place through the coax. If you aren't using MoCA, then you can use the RF output rather than a cable splitter if you'd like. But if you are using MoCA, then you need to use the splitter instead of the pass-though, as the RF pass-through on the tuning adapter will most likely interfere with MoCA signals.
now i get it. thanks so much for this response.
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Old 04-04-2014, 04:43 PM   #244
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I tried to hook up my mini today and i put my roamio pro to be used as a moca bridge. i check the network status and it says my link status is down and my mini won't connect to the internet via the moca bridge, but it will connect with an ethernet cable (tested in the same room as base tivo, but i don't have an ethernet connection at the location of the mini).

what can i do? i have set it up exactly like suggested and I'm using the proper splitters.

any advice or suggestions would be great thanks.

EDIT: I've taken off the POE filter and it works. I don't have access to put one on where it comes into my apartment, so I'm not sure what to do. Every place I put it inside my place the connection is lost to my mini.

Last edited by lapdog12 : 04-04-2014 at 05:15 PM.
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Old 04-04-2014, 06:55 PM   #245
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EDIT: I've taken off the POE filter and it works. I don't have access to put one on where it comes into my apartment, so I'm not sure what to do. Every place I put it inside my place the connection is lost to my mini.
Then just don't use it.

Alternatively, you could try calling up your cable company and telling them what you want to do and see if they'll send out a tech to give you access to where you need to install the filter.
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Old 04-04-2014, 07:53 PM   #246
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Then just don't use it.

Alternatively, you could try calling up your cable company and telling them what you want to do and see if they'll send out a tech to give you access to where you need to install the filter.
Ok, I won't use it for now but I may use your suggestion and calling them to have a tech come and set it up.

Thanks.
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Old 04-05-2014, 09:29 PM   #247
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EDIT: I've taken off the POE filter and it works. I don't have access to put one on where it comes into my apartment, so I'm not sure what to do. Every place I put it inside my place the connection is lost to my mini.
So, I'm no expert on PoE filters, but where exactly ARE you putting it, if it isn't at the point of entry? While there are other possible locations to put it for other purposes, mostly where tuning adapters are concerned, I think almost by definition, any other location in a standard setup is going to cause connection issues.
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Old 04-06-2014, 02:37 AM   #248
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So, I'm no expert on PoE filters, but where exactly ARE you putting it, if it isn't at the point of entry? While there are other possible locations to put it for other purposes, mostly where tuning adapters are concerned, I think almost by definition, any other location in a standard setup is going to cause connection issues.
I put it before the splitter that feeds my cable modem. i put it on the feed that goes to the mini and i put it on the feed to the splitter to my TA and roamio.

I also have 3 POE filters given to me by a TWC installer I saw on the street and asked if he would give me some and he did.

Everywhere I put it broke the connection to my mini. my internet in the house and to the roamio pro would work but i would lose communication with the mini. when it's off, i have no problem.

i may have to call TWC and see if they would send someone out to put a filter on the line before it comes into my apartment. it's in a locked box so i can't access it.
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Old 04-08-2014, 04:24 PM   #249
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A Point of Entry (POE) filter really needs to be installed at the point-of-entry. It is designed to block signals in the range that MoCA operates (I think it is in the range of about 850Mhz to 1.5 Ghz, but I haven't looked it up) such that you don't expose your home network to the outside via the internal MoCA network you have setup.

Putting a POE filter right in front of a Mini guarantees that the Mini won't work! You have blocked the MoCA network signal from entering the Mini over the coax cable.

If you cannot get to the POE, try to find a place to install a POE filter where it is the signal path before the MoCA bridge (probably the Roamio Plus/Pro) and another in front of your cable modem. Think it through to make sure there is no cable connection to the outside world that doesn't have a POE in front of its signal path. Ideally, you can get to the POE and use only one filter.

You can also enter a MoCA encryption key number of your own choosing in each MoCA enabled device as an additional layer of security.

Last edited by Headford : 04-08-2014 at 07:23 PM.
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Old 04-09-2014, 12:43 AM   #250
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[quote=Headford;10068744If you cannot get to the POE, try to find a place to install a POE filter where it is the signal path before the MoCA bridge (probably the Roamio Plus/Pro) and another in front of your cable modem. Think it through to make sure there is no cable connection to the outside world that doesn't have a POE in front of its signal path. Ideally, you can get to the POE and use only one filter.[/QUOTE]

I tried to put a filter just before my Roamio Pro (i have a TA so I have a splitter that feeds my pro and TA), that didn't work. I have a coax that comes into my room and it has a splitter, one feed to my roamio pro and TA and one to my modem. I put it on the single feed side (before the splitter) and also tried to put it on the feed that goes to my roamio but I didn't put one on the feed the goes to my modem.

I unfortunately can't get to where everything splits off to the different apartments to put in a POE filter there.

It's a small apartment building with 12 units. I don't think any one has moca or a whole home DVR in this building. I've been going without a filter like someone suggested and I've had no problems so far, but I'm not sure if it's affecting anyone else in the building.

Thanks for all the tips and tricks.
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Old 04-20-2014, 10:49 AM   #251
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I don't have FIOS, so someone please correct me if I am wrong. But I think the FIOS modem/router has MoCA built in, so if you have your Roamio directly connected to your FIOS router with ethernet, then I don't think you need a MoCA adapter at all. If the Roamio is connected to the FIOS modem with ethernet cable, and the FIOS modem is connected via coax cable to your house's coax network, and the mini is connected via coax cable to your house's coax network, it should work. So try removing that extra MoCA adapter from the mix and see if it works.
Yes that worked, I didn't need the adapter at all! Having it in the setup was causing issues!
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Old 04-20-2014, 10:51 AM   #252
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It's likely the Tivo representative was confused or misunderstood that you would connect the Roamio Basic directly to your router via Ethernet. If Ethernet wasn't available for the Roamio Basic, you would have needed the one MoCA adapter.
the funny thing is I was told I need two adapters not one! I am sitting with two adapters when infact I needed none!
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Old 04-20-2014, 11:30 AM   #253
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the funny thing is I was told I need two adapters not one! I am sitting with two adapters when infact I needed none!
Yeah, that's a product of you being on FIOS with MoCA built into the FIOS router. Had you been on a regular cable company's network and not been able to plug the Roamio into the router with an ethernet cable, you would have needed 2 adapters, 1 for your Roamio and 1 for your internet router.
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Old 05-03-2014, 03:47 PM   #254
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So I guess since Comcast supplies a great deal of us with ****ty TG862G modems, MoCA is not an option? See http://customer.comcast.com/help-and...ateway-compare
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Old 05-03-2014, 03:53 PM   #255
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So I guess since Comcast supplies a great deal of us with ****ty TG862G modems, MoCA is not an option? See http://customer.comcast.com/help-and...ateway-compare
MoCA is always an option regardless of what cable modem/router/gateway you have. Just buy a MoCA adapter to sit at your modem/router/gateway.
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Old 05-04-2014, 12:03 PM   #256
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MoCA is always an option regardless of what cable modem/router/gateway you have. Just buy a MoCA adapter to sit at your modem/router/gateway.
Oh so if the modem supports MoCA I wouldn't need an adapter? Makes sense.
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Old 05-04-2014, 12:57 PM   #257
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Oh so if the modem supports MoCA I wouldn't need an adapter? Makes sense.
Exactly. Most modems don't support MoCA, which is why you usually need a MoCA adapter. But the FIOS modem supports MoCA, which is why you don't need the adapter if you have FIOS. Not only do you not need a separate MoCA adapter if you have FIOS, but if you try to use a MoCA adapter with a FIOS modem with built-in MoCA, they can actually interfere with each other and cause all kinds of problems.
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Old 05-04-2014, 04:25 PM   #258
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FiOS doesn't use any modems. They just have a router that connects to the Optical Network Terminal.

You can still use MoCA in addition to the MoCA the FiOS router uses. You just need to make sure it is using different frequencies if you want a separate MoCA network on the same coaxial cable.

The TiVos have eight different MoCA channels to choose from.
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Old 05-04-2014, 05:18 PM   #259
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FiOS doesn't use any modems. They just have a router that connects to the Optical Network Terminal.
Actually, it's technically a gateway, as it combines functions of a modem and router into one device. But for the purposes of this discussion, I was using the terms modem/router/gateway interchangeably. As there is only 1 device with FiOS, there really isn't any confusion when using the terms interchangeably when talking about FiOS. Even Verizon itself appears to use the terms interchangeably on their website:

http://www.verizon.com/smallbusiness...iOS-equipment/

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Old 05-09-2014, 07:46 PM   #260
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MoCA POE and Cisco Tuning Adapters

I was doing some testing last night for a friend, and I decided to switch the Mini to use MoCA and bridge the Ethernet on the Roamio.

I split the incoming Coax to the TA and Roamio Pro (I usually use the RF pass-through which will not pass MoCA)
Turned on Ethernet + MoCA
Connected the Mini to the Coax only and changed the Network configuration to use MoCA.

The Tuning Adapter immediately started failing the tuning requests of SDV channels. The channels would briefly display but immediately I was presented with the Select to View this channel message, which did not bring the channel back.

The Cox Cisco TA install sheet shows using a MoCA POE filter before the TA, I never understood why. I assume the excess noise caused by the MoCA was causing the TA to fail.
http://media.cox.com/support/print_m...ourCiscoTA.pdf

After placing the POE filter on the TA, the TA started working again as normal.

Has anyone seen this? or is anyone using a MoCA POE filter on their TA?
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Old 05-09-2014, 08:35 PM   #261
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I was doing some testing last night for a friend, and I decided to switch the Mini to use MoCA and bridge the Ethernet on the Roamio.

I split the incoming Coax to the TA and Roamio Pro (I usually use the RF pass-through which will not pass MoCA)
Turned on Ethernet + MoCA
Connected the Mini to the Coax only and changed the Network configuration to use MoCA.

The Tuning Adapter immediately started failing the tuning requests of SDV channels. The channels would briefly display but immediately I was presented with the Select to View this channel message, which did not bring the channel back.

The Cox Cisco TA install sheet shows using a MoCA POE filter before the TA, I never understood why. I assume the excess noise caused by the MoCA was causing the TA to fail.
http://media.cox.com/support/print_m...ourCiscoTA.pdf

After placing the POE filter on the TA, the TA started working again as normal.

Has anyone seen this? or is anyone using a MoCA POE filter on their TA?
Yes. While I was trying out some Moca devices, just to see how MoCA worked, the Cisco TAs were completely rendered flaky by the MoCA.

It's not a matter of the Cisco TAs just not being able to pass the MoCA through the internal amp and whatnot, they just can't handle MoCA signals. They should have been designed with a built-in MoCA filter, but either were not, or it's just not working.

I thought you were "in the know on this"...

Cox doesn't include MoCA filters with the self-install kits, as a "just in case", or by "assuming MoCA is present in the coax". They know about this situation, and went from withholding PoE filters, to giving them out just to make sure this doesn't happen.

When you compare the TiVo instructions and diagrams to the Cox provided ones, TiVo would have you "pass-through", while Cox wants that split and PoE filter.

Since I didn't stay with MoCA, I just placed one filter at the actual Point-of-Entry, to cover the whole house from outside ingress, and put the rest in my "box-of-cable stuff" box.

People do need to be aware that a neighbor with MoCA and no PoE filter can punch their signal into other houses (egress & ingress), whether they use MoCA, or not. If a PoE filter is not at the PoE, a non-MoCA house can get poltergeists in their Tuning Adapters. Using Cox's split w/PoE at each TA would at least cover the Tuning Adapters. Obviously, a single PoE in a non-MoCA home is the better approach, while the split w/PoE is pretty much a necessity if MoCA is in use.

No idea on the Motorola TAs. I've never had one, or known anybody who did. It seems they are less prone to this, based on the things I don't see being reported with them in MoCA situations.

Many devices can be subject to MoCA-induced malfunctions. Cable modems, TV tuners, and more. Most new devices that have coax-in, now have built-in MoCA filters, like newer cable modems (that are not MoCA bridges), or any device that isn't design to be part of a MoCA network.

Unfortunately, some that have them built-in, don't do the job, or fail.

If it's not cost prohibitive, some might be best-off to place filters strategically, to only allow MoCA to get where it needs to go, and nowhere else.
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Old 05-09-2014, 11:17 PM   #262
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I thought you were "in the know on this"...
I had never used MoCA before so, I had no personal experience, and I have never seen a posting of someone saying they needed it. I have a friend who just ordered a Pro and was asking questions about the MoCA set-up.

Yes, I was aware Cox recommended it's use, and here in Phoenix, Cox gives you a kit with 2 Coax cables, a 2-way splitter, and a POE filter along with the printed instructions. They should really give out 2 POE filters in the kit though, if they expect customers to place one on the tap also.
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Old 05-09-2014, 11:42 PM   #263
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They should really give out 2 POE filters in the kit though, if they expect customers to place one on the tap also.
That's exactly what I thought, as well. I guess they'd rather let the customers egress MoCA signals, than think to give out 1 extra filter, or ask if you have one/need one for the actual Point-of-Entry.

Those used to be the only thing on Cox trucks I couldn't get a tech to give me one of. They were "reserved for Cox whole home DVR customers only".

I gave up trying to figure out what they are thinking, and just settled on "most of the time, they aren't thinking".

I didn't mean to come across as offensive, if you felt I did. You usually are the SOAK on most things Cox.
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Old 05-14-2014, 05:13 PM   #264
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Hey all, so I am trying to set up a TiVo mini in my house and it seems like I have a unique setup so I came here for some advice. We have a single TiVo Roamio and a single TiVo mini that we are trying to make work. First off, we are using an over the air tv antenna for our "signal" in so we don't have cable TV of any sorts. Also, we have DSL internet so we don't have a cable modem. Our house is wired for coaxal in basically every room but not for ethernet. Our Roamio sits in the living room and it DOES have a wired ethernet connection as I was able to get a wire to it and connect it to our router which sits in another room (strung a wire through the basement ceiling). The challenge is now to get the Mini (which sits up in our bedroom on the 2nd floor) connected to the "network". As I said, we can't get an ethernet cord up there very easily, it would involve a very long cord and multiple holes in walls etc...would like to avoid this if possible. Anyways, I know that I can make a MoCa work in the house and I have bought a MoCa adapter but I'm not real sure where to put it in the mess of wires. All of the coaxal cables in the house come together in the basement which is also where my antenna-in cable from outside is. Also, we have a pre-amp hooked up for the antenna...not sure if this affects the MoCa or not. Any thoughts on how to make this all work? Thanks!
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Old 05-14-2014, 06:04 PM   #265
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Hey all, so I am trying to set up a TiVo mini in my house and it seems like I have a unique setup so I came here for some advice. We have a single TiVo Roamio and a single TiVo mini that we are trying to make work. First off, we are using an over the air tv antenna for our "signal" in so we don't have cable TV of any sorts. Also, we have DSL internet so we don't have a cable modem. Our house is wired for coaxal in basically every room but not for ethernet. Our Roamio sits in the living room and it DOES have a wired ethernet connection as I was able to get a wire to it and connect it to our router which sits in another room (strung a wire through the basement ceiling). The challenge is now to get the Mini (which sits up in our bedroom on the 2nd floor) connected to the "network". As I said, we can't get an ethernet cord up there very easily, it would involve a very long cord and multiple holes in walls etc...would like to avoid this if possible. Anyways, I know that I can make a MoCa work in the house and I have bought a MoCa adapter but I'm not real sure where to put it in the mess of wires. All of the coaxal cables in the house come together in the basement which is also where my antenna-in cable from outside is. Also, we have a pre-amp hooked up for the antenna...not sure if this affects the MoCa or not. Any thoughts on how to make this all work? Thanks!
So you have a Roamio Basic?

If you have a Roamio Basic (no built in MoCA bridge) then you would need to put the MoCA adapter at the location of the router. Connect it to the router with ethernet and then connect it to the coaxial home wiring.

That's it. The Mini should then be able to connect over coax to the MoCA bridge, which then connects the Mini to the Roamio via Ethernet as well as to the internet via the router.

The only thing I don't know of is whether or not MoCA signals play nice with an external antenna that you describe using... you also need to know if the coax splitters in your home can handle at least 1000 mhz as that is the minimum frequency that needs to be passed in order for MoCa to work properly.
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Old 05-14-2014, 06:47 PM   #266
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The lowest MoCA channel the Mini (and Roamio Pro/Plus) uses is channel 15. Which I read is 1150Mhz. It worked fine with my eight way, 1Ghz splitter that FiOS had provided me in 2007. But I still installed a 1.2Ghz splitter I got from Amazon. But that just increased the max PHY rate from around 270Mb/s to around 290Mb/s in my setup on channel 15. I didn't see a performance difference.
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Old 05-15-2014, 04:04 PM   #267
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I guess I always thought Moca ran on a separate coaxial cable. I always had ethernet on my main and basement TV's so I never bothered to look into it. My bedroom is the last room that I haven't gotten around to running Cat6 to. I have mini I am using with 24 inch TV that is portable, but mostly with ethernet. I was surprised to learn all I had to do was turn moca on using the pro or plus connected to ethernet and then make sure the room was wired on the splitter. Works really well and get 270 +Mbps over crappy RG59, plenty for my Tivo Mini!

The only thing that is a bummer is having to go into settings when I move the TV to an ethernet room. I may add an actiontec moca adapter to make things a bit more flexible in that room. Sure beats fishing Cat 6 around in the attic and down a wall.

Go moca.
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Old 05-15-2014, 04:53 PM   #268
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Which POE filter should I use for MOCA? I see some filter to 860 Mhz and others up to 1 Ghz. Prefer something from ebay that ships free and gets the job done.
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Old 05-15-2014, 11:13 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by filovirus View Post
Which POE filter should I use for MOCA? I see some filter to 860 Mhz and others up to 1 Ghz. Prefer something from ebay that ships free and gets the job done.
I purchased two inexpensive POE from E-Bay and tested them by putting each between my MoCA cable and a Roamio pro, the MoCA signal went away on the Roamio, as expected, so I put one on the cable coming into my home and one on the leg feeding the modem, all are working great. (you may not need the one on the Modem leg but better to be safe than sorry, and I tested the modem before and after, no change with a download speed that is faster than 100Mb/sec)
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Les Daniels

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3 Roamio Plus upgraded to 2Tb & 3Tb, and 2 Minis, Also 1 not used Humax Series 2 with a DVD burner
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Old 05-15-2014, 11:45 PM   #270
BigJimOutlaw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filovirus View Post
Which POE filter should I use for MOCA? I see some filter to 860 Mhz and others up to 1 Ghz. Prefer something from ebay that ships free and gets the job done.
Either will be fine but I'd get 1GHz.
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