TiVo Community
TiVo Community
TiVo Community
Go Back   TiVo Community > Main TiVo Forums > TiVo Mini
TiVo Community
Reply
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old 03-26-2016, 09:59 PM   #1
Bigg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hartford- New Haven CT
Posts: 5,240
MoCA problem in apartment

So I moved into a new apartment (built in 1988). My Premiere XL4 is set up with Comcast that goes through a splitter and shares the jack with my modem and router. I've got a two Minis, one in the Kitchen, and one in the Bedroom. The one in the Kitchen is hooked up with Powerline adapters, and works flawlessly. I tried hooking up the one in the bedroom using MoCA, but it just doesn't work. Temporarily, I stole the kitchen Mini's Powerline adapter, and it works fine. The problem with the MoCA is, there are two jacks in the apartment, and I have no clue where the splitter is, or if there are two separate drops, or something weird. All I do know is that the buildings aren't using a bunch of splitters internally, as there are two cable companies, and they can switch the drops from one tap to the other in the little utility closets on the side of the building. Any ideas for troubleshooting or figuring out how this place is wired, or should I just pay $35 for a used set of Powerline adapters, and get them both on Powerline?

__________________
Premiere XL4 Lifetime 3/26/13 XFinity Double Play
2 TiVo Mini's on Homeplug AV500
80 HR Series 2 Lifetime 4/11/04 DEAD as of 11/2010
Bigg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2016, 08:44 AM   #2
fcfc2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 981
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigg View Post
So I moved into a new apartment (built in 1988). My Premiere XL4 is set up with Comcast that goes through a splitter and shares the jack with my modem and router. I've got a two Minis, one in the Kitchen, and one in the Bedroom. The one in the Kitchen is hooked up with Powerline adapters, and works flawlessly. I tried hooking up the one in the bedroom using MoCA, but it just doesn't work. Temporarily, I stole the kitchen Mini's Powerline adapter, and it works fine. The problem with the MoCA is, there are two jacks in the apartment, and I have no clue where the splitter is, or if there are two separate drops, or something weird. All I do know is that the buildings aren't using a bunch of splitters internally, as there are two cable companies, and they can switch the drops from one tap to the other in the little utility closets on the side of the building. Any ideas for troubleshooting or figuring out how this place is wired, or should I just pay $35 for a used set of Powerline adapters, and get them both on Powerline?
Hi,
The easiest way may well be the Powerline adapter in your situation, especially since you have already determined that it will work for you.
If you have some need to sort out the possibility of getting MoCA to work, then I would suggest the first thing to do is to pull the covers off of those cable outlets and see what you can find lurking there. In older apartments, there is sometimes an older "antenna" outlet connected to a common antenna somewhere as well as a nearby cable company outlet. It is unlikely that 2 competing cable companies separately wired the same apartments so my guess is one is for an older antenna system.
If you can find no sign of any splitters hiding behind any of your outlets, it is probably a good sign, that there is homerun wiring going back to you utility shed, but that is uncommon in apartments.
Do you know if Comcast installed a MoCA filter on your line?

fcfc2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2016, 03:01 PM   #3
Bigg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hartford- New Haven CT
Posts: 5,240
Quote:
Originally Posted by fcfc2 View Post
Hi,
The easiest way may well be the Powerline adapter in your situation, especially since you have already determined that it will work for you.
If you have some need to sort out the possibility of getting MoCA to work, then I would suggest the first thing to do is to pull the covers off of those cable outlets and see what you can find lurking there. In older apartments, there is sometimes an older "antenna" outlet connected to a common antenna somewhere as well as a nearby cable company outlet. It is unlikely that 2 competing cable companies separately wired the same apartments so my guess is one is for an older antenna system.
If you can find no sign of any splitters hiding behind any of your outlets, it is probably a good sign, that there is homerun wiring going back to you utility shed, but that is uncommon in apartments.
Do you know if Comcast installed a MoCA filter on your line?
Yeah, I'm thinking I should just get the Powerline adapter. I pulled the wall plates off, and there is nothing of interest back there, and the cable jacks are installed in full electrical style boxes, not the low voltage brackets. The apartments were built with cable wiring in 1988, so my guess is the electricians ran them, I just have no clue where the splitter is, if there is a splitter. I have a hard time believing that two lines run all the way back to the tap, but maybe they do. I believe the cable overbuilder was installed by the city in the '90s, so it postdated the 1970's system that eventually became Comcast, which is all that would have been there when the complex was built.

I suppose it's possible that if they all run back to the tap, that the apartment has two separate drops, which would be really weird. You'd think they would put a 2-way splitter for each apartment in at the tap if this were the case, but maybe not. I have no clue if there is a MoCA filter on it. I've had MoCA on this system before without a filter, and it's fine. Considering that the plant struggles in the low-600mhz frequencies, I don't think it's going to be passing 1150mhz MoCA signals anywhere they shouldn't be going.

__________________
Premiere XL4 Lifetime 3/26/13 XFinity Double Play
2 TiVo Mini's on Homeplug AV500
80 HR Series 2 Lifetime 4/11/04 DEAD as of 11/2010
Bigg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2016, 08:23 PM   #4
Bigg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hartford- New Haven CT
Posts: 5,240
I ended up going all Powerline, and now I have a network of 3 Powerline adapters for TiVo, and the network is able to stream to two TVs in HD at once. Granted, Comcast compresses the crap out of their channels, but still, ESPN and ESPN2 at the same time, one to each remote TV work fine. The remote TVs have maybe an extra second of lag in starting programs or tuning channels, but other than that they feel identical to a mini wired in via MoCA or Ethernet, which I have had each in previous places I've lived.

Of course this may not work everywhere, my apartment was built in 1988, and it's all electric, so the electrical system is pretty beefy, but it can, in the right situation, produce really nice results.

__________________
Premiere XL4 Lifetime 3/26/13 XFinity Double Play
2 TiVo Mini's on Homeplug AV500
80 HR Series 2 Lifetime 4/11/04 DEAD as of 11/2010
Bigg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2016, 08:33 PM   #5
SomeRandomIdiot
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigg View Post
Yeah, I'm thinking I should just get the Powerline adapter. I pulled the wall plates off, and there is nothing of interest back there, and the cable jacks are installed in full electrical style boxes, not the low voltage brackets. The apartments were built with cable wiring in 1988, so my guess is the electricians ran them, I just have no clue where the splitter is, if there is a splitter. I have a hard time believing that two lines run all the way back to the tap, but maybe they do. I believe the cable overbuilder was installed by the city in the '90s, so it postdated the 1970's system that eventually became Comcast, which is all that would have been there when the complex was built.

I suppose it's possible that if they all run back to the tap, that the apartment has two separate drops, which would be really weird. You'd think they would put a 2-way splitter for each apartment in at the tap if this were the case, but maybe not. I have no clue if there is a MoCA filter on it. I've had MoCA on this system before without a filter, and it's fine. Considering that the plant struggles in the low-600mhz frequencies, I don't think it's going to be passing 1150mhz MoCA signals anywhere they shouldn't be going.
From what i have been told recently (and have no reason to doubt it) is that the MoCA filter is even MORE critical with splitters.

A Splitter will give you about 25db of isolation across the two outputs - and a MoCA Filter (so I am told) reflects much of that back, diminishing the effects of the 25db isolation.

FCFC2 probably has greater knowledge, but was given that info yesterday from a normally reliable source after 2 splitter failures with MoCA 2.0.

SomeRandomIdiot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2016, 03:31 PM   #6
Bigg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hartford- New Haven CT
Posts: 5,240
I had a setup with multiple splitters and no filter. Not saying it was ideal, but it did work with 3 Minis and the Premiere XL4.

__________________
Premiere XL4 Lifetime 3/26/13 XFinity Double Play
2 TiVo Mini's on Homeplug AV500
80 HR Series 2 Lifetime 4/11/04 DEAD as of 11/2010
Bigg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2016, 12:27 AM   #7
SomeRandomIdiot
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigg View Post
I had a setup with multiple splitters and no filter. Not saying it was ideal, but it did work with 3 Minis and the Premiere XL4.
Again, I had a project with a large number of Actiontec ECB6200s that went through some 2 way Comscope 1Ghz rated splitters and some other 2 way 2Ghz Splitters that worked fine for about 5 weeks until the first power outage in the area - and once the area power came back on the 1Ghz splitters no longer passed MoCA, though no issue with the CATV feed below 1Ghz or the 2Ghz splitters.

Another example of doing it right the first time - even if it appears to work.

SomeRandomIdiot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2016, 09:36 PM   #8
Bigg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hartford- New Haven CT
Posts: 5,240
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeRandomIdiot View Post
Again, I had a project with a large number of Actiontec ECB6200s that went through some 2 way Comscope 1Ghz rated splitters and some other 2 way 2Ghz Splitters that worked fine for about 5 weeks until the first power outage in the area - and once the area power came back on the 1Ghz splitters no longer passed MoCA, though no issue with the CATV feed below 1Ghz or the 2Ghz splitters.

Another example of doing it right the first time - even if it appears to work.
That's bizarre to say the least. Maybe it was what order they were powered on?

__________________
Premiere XL4 Lifetime 3/26/13 XFinity Double Play
2 TiVo Mini's on Homeplug AV500
80 HR Series 2 Lifetime 4/11/04 DEAD as of 11/2010
Bigg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2016, 04:31 AM   #9
SomeRandomIdiot
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigg View Post
That's bizarre to say the least. Maybe it was what order they were powered on?
Nope. They were all 6 inches off 2 PCT 8 out amps at the TAP so all would come on at same time. Mixed on assorted ports as well. PS to amps behind surge protectors.

SomeRandomIdiot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2016, 07:24 PM   #10
Bigg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hartford- New Haven CT
Posts: 5,240
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeRandomIdiot View Post
Nope. They were all 6 inches off 2 PCT 8 out amps at the TAP so all would come on at same time. Mixed on assorted ports as well. PS to amps behind surge protectors.
Weird. I still wouldn't say that's the splitters. Sounds like some weird stuff going on....

__________________
Premiere XL4 Lifetime 3/26/13 XFinity Double Play
2 TiVo Mini's on Homeplug AV500
80 HR Series 2 Lifetime 4/11/04 DEAD as of 11/2010
Bigg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2016, 06:20 PM   #11
Bigg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hartford- New Haven CT
Posts: 5,240
I think I figured it out. I figured out where the taps are, and I peered in the window to the little maintenance room where they reside. Each cable jack (2 per apartment) is home run to where the taps are. Most are set up with a 2-way splitter, so that the apartment is on the same port on the tap, but some are not. So either one of cables is totally disconnected, or it's connected to the other cable provider, or, more likely, a different port on the tap entirely. The apartments with X1 WH-DVR have MoCA filters and the 2-port splitters, others are sort of haphazardly done. My guess is no one really keeps the stuff neat, as people move in and out all the time, some don't have cable, but some switch from one provider to the other. I *think* I was looking at Comcast's taps, as they look like they are original to the building in 1988, and I *think* the overbuilders' were off to the side, they would have been added in the late '90s. So in theory, I guess you could have Comcast is the living room, and the overbuilder in the bedroom if you really wanted, although with the way both bundle their TV and internet, that would be really stupid.

__________________
Premiere XL4 Lifetime 3/26/13 XFinity Double Play
2 TiVo Mini's on Homeplug AV500
80 HR Series 2 Lifetime 4/11/04 DEAD as of 11/2010
Bigg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2016, 01:26 PM   #12
CCourtney
Registered User
 
CCourtney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: El Dorado Hills, CA
Posts: 442
Did you identify which ones feed your apartment and change it so that both lines are connected through a single splitter w/ a single source?

I'd do it even if you plan on sticking with the powerline solution, just in case the powerline goes down, you can switch to MoCA.

__________________
- TiVo HD (750GB) 7/07 Death 4/16 - RIP
- TiVo HD 11/09 Death 5/15 - RIP
- 1TB Extender (was connected to 11/09 TiVo HD)
- Roamio Plus (3TB) 5/13/15
- TiVo Mini 4/29/16
CCourtney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2016, 04:02 PM   #13
Bigg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hartford- New Haven CT
Posts: 5,240
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCourtney View Post
Did you identify which ones feed your apartment and change it so that both lines are connected through a single splitter w/ a single source?

I'd do it even if you plan on sticking with the powerline solution, just in case the powerline goes down, you can switch to MoCA.
No, I can't actually get into the room to read the tags. If it were hooked up with a splitter, it would work. So it's either hooked to two different ports on the tap, or the bedroom isn't hooked up to Comcast at all (could be connected to nothing, or the overbuilder somehow).

I have a second mini in a location without coax, and I've got the Powerline working. They're just small TVs, and this isn't a long-term thing, so they work fine for now. I'm only using the one jack, with a 2-way splitter inside to feed my XL4 and SB6141.

__________________
Premiere XL4 Lifetime 3/26/13 XFinity Double Play
2 TiVo Mini's on Homeplug AV500
80 HR Series 2 Lifetime 4/11/04 DEAD as of 11/2010
Bigg is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Forum Jump







Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Advertisements





TiVo Community
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media


(C) 2016 DBNet - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVoŽ is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not owned or operated by TiVo Inc.
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:24 PM.
Page generated in 0.18119407 seconds (62.99% PHP - 37.01% MySQL) with 18 queries