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Old 02-05-2013, 08:27 AM   #1
rpk113
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Why does TiVO make is so hard?

I have 2X TivoHD's and 1 X Premiere (dual-tuner). I have a yearly deal on the premiere and one of the Tivo HD's. I keep calling to upgrade the yearly TiVoHD to a 4-tuner and they have no deals for me. Not even that, if I want to change out my hardware they want me to cancel my yearly tivohd and purchase a new premiere and new service. I thought phone company upgrades were hard.. Why does TiVO make it so hard for me to give them more $$? I want to keep my service, I want to pay for a new box. But you make it so hard...
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Old 02-05-2013, 08:46 AM   #2
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If you had lifetime service on the boxes it would be easy. Then you could just sell the old box to cover most of the cost of a new box with lifetime service. When I upgraded to my lifetime Premieres, I sold my Lifetime S3 boxes to cover most of the cost. When I upgraded to lifetime Elite/XL4 boxes, I sold my Lifetime Premieres to cover all of the cost.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:02 AM   #3
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I have 2X TivoHD's and 1 X Premiere (dual-tuner). I have a yearly deal on the premiere and one of the Tivo HD's. I keep calling to upgrade the yearly TiVoHD to a 4-tuner and they have no deals for me. Not even that, if I want to change out my hardware they want me to cancel my yearly tivohd and purchase a new premiere and new service. I thought phone company upgrades were hard.. Why does TiVO make it so hard for me to give them more $$? I want to keep my service, I want to pay for a new box. But you make it so hard...
They have a product for sale if you want it all you have to do is buy/pay for it. Nothing hard about that at all. Saying a company/person is making it hard to buy something because they won't sell it to you for what you want to pay is amusing.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:44 AM   #4
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. When I upgraded to lifetime Elite/XL4 boxes, I sold my Lifetime Premieres to cover all of the cost.
How can you make enough money selling Lifetime premieres to fully cover the cost of lifetime elite/xl4 boxes? Why would someone be willing to pay a similar price for a used item that they could pay for a brand new better item?
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:12 AM   #5
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They have a product for sale if you want it all you have to do is buy/pay for it. Nothing hard about that at all. Saying a company/person is making it hard to buy something because they won't sell it to you for what you want to pay is amusing.
Problem is I get that part.. I wantt o buy the goods their selling, but not at the cost of being treated like a new customer (new box, new montly)

TIVO's solution seems to be, once you buy equipment your stuck with it till you a) cancel b) have a hardware failure c) be one of the lucky few to get an upgrade deal.
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:16 AM   #6
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If you want to be treated like a new customer then become a new customer with someone else. Otherwise you have to buy what is being offered
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:28 AM   #7
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If you want to be treated like a new customer then become a new customer with someone else. Otherwise you have to buy what is being offered
thank you, mr obvious

THE OP is right, Tivo does not seem to comprehend how to sell, like Fios/Comcast, etc. You try to keep customers, not restart them. Your customer base is your bread and butter.
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:29 AM   #8
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You get a MSD, that is the benefit of being a customer.

If I buy a new ipod touch, Apple does not give me a discount because I already own two. Why should I expect one?
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:38 AM   #9
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thank you, mr obvious

THE OP is right, Tivo does not seem to comprehend how to sell, like Fios/Comcast, etc. You try to keep customers, not restart them. Your customer base is your bread and butter.
Well that has not been my experience with pay TV providers. The best deals are for new customers existing customers have to pay more for the same thing. Sure sometimes (not always) you can get a deal once you actually cancel via retention but nothing up front.
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:41 AM   #10
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Problem is I get that part.. I wantt o buy the goods their selling, but not at the cost of being treated like a new customer (new box, new montly)
It sounds like your "issue" with TiVo is they're not offering you a special upgrade deal that's better than anyone else can get.

What exactly are you looking for TiVo to do for you?
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:48 AM   #11
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Problem is I get that part.. I wantt o buy the goods their selling, but not at the cost of being treated like a new customer (new box, new montly)

TIVO's solution seems to be, once you buy equipment your stuck with it till you a) cancel b) have a hardware failure c) be one of the lucky few to get an upgrade deal.
And this differs from buying anything else how?

You simple want to pay less for a new TiVo than what TiVo is willing to sell it to you for. Nothing wrong with you deciding it isn't worth it to you to pay more and nothing wrong with TiVo deciding giving you a lower price isn't worth it to them.

That's how capitalism works it requires a willing buyer AND seller.
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:55 AM   #12
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How can you make enough money selling Lifetime premieres to fully cover the cost of lifetime elite/xl4 boxes? Why would someone be willing to pay a similar price for a used item that they could pay for a brand new better item?
I sold two lifetime premieres for each lifetime Elite/XL4. So I had the same number of tuners, but fewer boxes and less power usage. The four lifetime premieres covered more than 100% of the cost of my two lifetime Elite/XL4 boxes including the extended warranties.

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Old 02-05-2013, 10:58 AM   #13
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Why does TiVO make it so hard for me to give them more $$? I want to keep my service, I want to pay for a new box. But you make it so hard...
Tell us exactly what deal you want and what deal you were offered.
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Old 02-05-2013, 11:19 AM   #14
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thank you, mr obvious

THE OP is right, Tivo does not seem to comprehend how to sell, like Fios/Comcast, etc. You try to keep customers, not restart them. Your customer base is your bread and butter.
Fios and Comcast dont know how to sell either. They churn customer like there is no tomorrow.
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Old 02-05-2013, 12:04 PM   #15
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I'd be happy to pay full price for the hardware. For me, it's the way they handle 'lifetime' service that's stupid. I'd probably buy new hardware frequently if they either tied the lifetime service to my account (instead of the hardware) or offered a significant discount on lifetime when upgrading hardware.

I know TiVo wants a monthly subscription from everyone. I'm never going to go for it, and they're missing out on the opportunity to sell me new hardware as a result.
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Old 02-05-2013, 12:34 PM   #16
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I'd be happy to pay full price for the hardware. For me, it's the way they handle 'lifetime' service that's stupid. I'd probably buy new hardware frequently if they either tied the lifetime service to my account (instead of the hardware) or offered a significant discount on lifetime when upgrading hardware.

I know TiVo wants a monthly subscription from everyone. I'm never going to go for it, and they're missing out on the opportunity to sell me new hardware as a result.
...but Tivo loses money on some hardware. Why would Tivo lose money on hardware they sell to you and tie 'lifetime' service to your account -- also losing money? That's a recipe for a speedy bankruptcy.

Related question: would you pay for a 'lifetime' service subscription tied to your account that lasts 10 years but costs $1000 -$1500? What price point would you jump?
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Old 02-05-2013, 01:03 PM   #17
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I'd be happy to pay full price for the hardware. For me, it's the way they handle 'lifetime' service that's stupid. I'd probably buy new hardware frequently if they either tied the lifetime service to my account (instead of the hardware) or offered a significant discount on lifetime when upgrading hardware.

I know TiVo wants a monthly subscription from everyone. I'm never going to go for it, and they're missing out on the opportunity to sell me new hardware as a result.
You can word it anyway you want, but what you and the original poster are saying is I would buy a new TiVo if it cost less.

Well lots of people would buy lots of things if they cost less. I guess we all like to bi*** about the price of things to some extent but honestly does anyone thing it is going to change a thing? TiVo does have deals, they come and go, if one really wants a TiVo just paying attention to the deals can end up saving you some money.
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Old 02-05-2013, 01:22 PM   #18
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You can word it anyway you want, but what you and the original poster are saying is I would buy a new TiVo if it cost less.

Well lots of people would buy lots of things if they cost less. I guess we all like to bi*** about the price of things to some extent but honestly does anyone thing it is going to change a thing? TiVo does have deals, they come and go, if one really wants a TiVo just paying attention to the deals can end up saving you some money.
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:12 PM   #19
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Tell us exactly what deal you want and what deal you were offered.
I was offered a discounted tivo ($249 for 4 tuner) and new service.. I happen to have the older $99 yearly service and wanted to keep it. I was told no way.. I offered to pay $399 for the 4-tuner, again no way..

I'm not asking for free stuff, or deep discount, or $49 lifetime. I want them to comprehend that as their equipment gets older (less technologically advanced) that we'll want new hardware and not have to give our spleen to get it.
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:58 PM   #20
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You get PLS, that is the benefit of being a customer.

If I buy a new ipod touch, Apple does not give me a discount because I already own two. Why should I expect one?
Bad example. Unlike Apple, when I buy a new TiVo, they do give me a discount, because I have a TiVo with Lifetime.

With the multi-service discount, I used to get service on my second TiVo for $6.95. By the time I got my TiVoHD, the MSD monthly rate was $9.95. Sure, it would have been great if the MSD monthly rate was still $6.95 forever, but I also want TiVo to make enough money to stay in business. So I'm happy to get any kind of price break at all. The $99 yearly service deal was a nice price, but they're not offering it for new boxes anymore, just like I can't get $6.95 for my monthly deal. That's just the way it is.

If the OP wants a good deal, nothing's stopping him from putting Lifetime on one of his boxes, and taking advantage of the MSD deals after that.
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:14 PM   #21
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How can you make enough money selling Lifetime premieres to fully cover the cost of lifetime elite/xl4 boxes? Why would someone be willing to pay a similar price for a used item that they could pay for a brand new better item?
If lifetime cost $399 for a TiVo customer that can get a MSD, they can sell a TiVo-HD on E-Bay and net close to the $399, now maybe only $320 as the Series 3 is getting old, but for a new TiVo customer that has to pay $499 for Lifetime + the cost of the hardware, about $100, that person get a good HD TiVo for almost 1/2 price, the seller pays only $399 + $99 -$320= $179, good deal for both.
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Old 02-05-2013, 05:49 PM   #22
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I know TiVo wants a monthly subscription from everyone. I'm never going to go for it, and they're missing out on the opportunity to sell me new hardware as a result.
They sell hardware at a loss (subsidized by the subscription), so why on earth should they want to lose money to keep you happy? They are better off with out you than if they gave you what you want.
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Old 02-05-2013, 06:50 PM   #23
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You should be able to get lifetime on your HD for $99 if you buy a full-price Premiere and put service on it. Take the HD and sell it for $300+ and use that to pay for the Premiere.
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Old 02-05-2013, 07:41 PM   #24
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You should be able to get lifetime on your HD for $99 if you buy a full-price Premiere and put service on it.
That wasn't available on the phone when I talked to them on Saturday 2/2. Of course that seems to change periodically and is regularly available. Just in case anyone tries to call right now, may need to be patient.

As to the $99/yr rate the OP mentioned... I sure would love to still be able to buy gasoline at 75 cents a gallon, but that ship has sailed.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:19 PM   #25
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...but Tivo loses money on some hardware. Why would Tivo lose money on hardware they sell to you and tie 'lifetime' service to your account -- also losing money? That's a recipe for a speedy bankruptcy.

Related question: would you pay for a 'lifetime' service subscription tied to your account that lasts 10 years but costs $1000 -$1500? What price point would you jump?
Perhaps. I'd definitely pay a fair sum (I already bought two lifetimes for my two boxes, so that's $800 or so right there). I'm not a fan of subsidized pricing or other models which complicate things for exactly this reason. Here's what I, as a consumer, want from TiVo (a company I went out of my way to have a direct relationship with instead of having a provider-provided DVR or 'sponsored' TiVo experience).

1. No monthly fees. I'm (obviously) willing to pay up front to get out of that. They get more cash up front, interest benefits, etc.

2. The ability to upgrade my hardware when I want (for whatever the hardware actually costs) without being penalized by the lifetime service.

I'm a geek. I have a fair amount of disposable income, so I'm willing to consider upgrading two Premiere boxes just to go from 2 to 4 tuners. I'm managing fine with my two current Premieres, but their model (for Lifetime, at least) encourages you to keep your current hardware versus upgrading, which seems like poor implementation on their part.
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:51 PM   #26
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Problem is I get that part.. I wantt o buy the goods their selling, but not at the cost of being treated like a new customer (new box, new montly)
You aren't being treated as a new customer, you get a $100 discount on lifetime.
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Old 02-06-2013, 01:06 AM   #27
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1. No monthly fees. I'm (obviously) willing to pay up front to get out of that. They get more cash up front, interest benefits, etc.

2. The ability to upgrade my hardware when I want (for whatever the hardware actually costs) without being penalized by the lifetime service.

I'm a geek. I have a fair amount of disposable income, so I'm willing to consider upgrading two Premiere boxes just to go from 2 to 4 tuners. I'm managing fine with my two current Premieres, but their model (for Lifetime, at least) encourages you to keep your current hardware versus upgrading, which seems like poor implementation on their part.
Since you don't use the monthly payment option, don't think of the DVR and service as two different things.
Ignore the service for a moment. Think of just buying a DVR that costs $550 (low end) to $800 (high end). Like other things, it doesn't matter how many you buy. It will always cost what it costs.
How do you feel penalized by the lifetime service?
You think Tivos should be like cars where you can "trade in" your old model for a new one?
Although TiVo doesn't do trade ins, you CAN sell your Tivos to help recoup some of the costs of upgrading. You won't get what you paid for them, but that's the same for anything you sell used.
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Old 02-06-2013, 03:06 PM   #28
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...but their model (for Lifetime, at least) encourages you to keep your current hardware versus upgrading, which seems like poor implementation on their part.
Correct, Lifetime does do this. The alternative, is a monthly subscription, which frees you to upgrade the hardware at any time (well after 12 months), as your old hardware has minimal value, and the new hardware is subsidized and typically requires a 12 month contract.

Lifetime does not break even for a number of months, around 25 IIRC, at this point if you hand on to the unit you are saving $15 to $20 per month. If you want to upgrade, Tivo is not going to help you out, but your hardware has a high value because of the Lifetime, and you'll get most of your money back, which you can then roll over into the new hardware and Lifetime.

The Tivo model is straightforward, it is just that you'd prefer that they roll your Lifetime over to a new unit, and Tivo has no interest in doing that as they don't make any money then.

Phone company upgrades are easy because they have you by the short hairs, and fleece you for $100+ per month.
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Old 02-06-2013, 11:25 PM   #29
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Since you don't use the monthly payment option, don't think of the DVR and service as two different things.
Ignore the service for a moment. Think of just buying a DVR that costs $550 (low end) to $800 (high end). Like other things, it doesn't matter how many you buy. It will always cost what it costs.
How do you feel penalized by the lifetime service?
You think Tivos should be like cars where you can "trade in" your old model for a new one?
Although TiVo doesn't do trade ins, you CAN sell your Tivos to help recoup some of the costs of upgrading. You won't get what you paid for them, but that's the same for anything you sell used.
Except $550 to $800 is nowhere near what that hardware costs. I understand the model TiVo is using. It is (IMHO) overly complicated, and in my case (not saying I'm a stand-in for everyone) it's preventing them from selling me new hardware as quickly as they otherwise could have. I'm not saying this is the worst thing ever - but I agree with the original poster that TiVo's model is more focused on new customers & purchases, versus the potential for additional hardware revenue from current customers.
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Old 02-06-2013, 11:31 PM   #30
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Correct, Lifetime does do this. The alternative, is a monthly subscription, which frees you to upgrade the hardware at any time (well after 12 months), as your old hardware has minimal value, and the new hardware is subsidized and typically requires a 12 month contract.

Lifetime does not break even for a number of months, around 25 IIRC, at this point if you hand on to the unit you are saving $15 to $20 per month. If you want to upgrade, Tivo is not going to help you out, but your hardware has a high value because of the Lifetime, and you'll get most of your money back, which you can then roll over into the new hardware and Lifetime.

The Tivo model is straightforward, it is just that you'd prefer that they roll your Lifetime over to a new unit, and Tivo has no interest in doing that as they don't make any money then.

Phone company upgrades are easy because they have you by the short hairs, and fleece you for $100+ per month.
[/rant]
My hardware has a high value only to those customers who understand this 'straightforward' model, which is not Joe Average.

Their model is not straightforward. Subsidizing hardware is pretty much the opposite of straightforward.

Straightforward would be selling the hardware for what the hardware costs, the service for what the service costs, and lifetime (if they offered it) for whatever the average cost of a lifetime subscription was (all with their profit markup, of course).
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