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Old 02-11-2013, 06:31 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmbach View Post
Just a thought. Perhaps what is being reported is the space it takes up in the MFS media partitions. I know the drive itself is 512 byte blocks but the MFS system is different. This is speculation but perhaps it is akin to the cluster size we see in our computers. If the cluster size is 4k then any file size under 4k still takes up 4k of disk space but our computers report the actual size of the file. Maybe the tivo is reporting the cluster size that is being used by the video file and not the actual file size. When you transfer a file to a computer, the file size will be reported as the actual size but the free space removed from the drive will be a multiple of a cluster.

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I think we can agree it's a reporting (display) issue. The effort to make the TiVo or the Desktop report the actual number of bytes is not so important. I agree, two different files should not share the same physical sector. The block or cluster size isn't an issue when the first size reported is 2.1GB and the last size reported is much smaller.
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Old 02-11-2013, 11:29 AM   #32
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I am really disappointed in Tivo. This is the type of ineptitutde - and waste of our time - that is more typical of Comcast. The fact that Dapoppa reported this to Tivo on Dec. 6 - and repeatedly after that - and only one tech person was familiar with the issue... that's really inexcusable. Once a bug has been found, it should be documented - and documented well enough that Tivo rep's can find this information when other customers call in with the same issue.

I spoke with two tech's the first weekend in Feb. Neither had heard of this. The first did not bother to document my call. The second did - and gave me an incident number - and promised I'd get a follow up call. Of course I got no follow-up - except for their automated customer satisfaction survey - which I did fill out- expressing my discontent and again asking for follow up. Nothing.

Having to transfer recordings to desktop, other tivo's - or anywhere - just to transfer back to get accurate file size readings is ridiculous. This is especially an issue if Tivo thinks the drive is full and starts to delete shows. For some reason, though, Tivo has not deleted my shows. My two Tivo elites (with 2tb drives) have been reading at about 92-94% full for a couple of weeks. I am continuing to record more shows than I am deleting - and the meter isn't increasing. I don't know why that is - but I'm glad I"m not losing shows - yet.

I thought Tivo was now monitoring this forum. Be nice to hear from one of them on this thread.
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Old 02-11-2013, 11:38 AM   #33
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Tivo is officially monitoring THIER forum. Some individuals come here from time to time, but this is not the place to get a response.
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:07 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by lynnalexandra View Post
I am really disappointed in Tivo. This is the type of ineptitutde - and waste of our time - that is more typical of Comcast. The fact that Dapoppa reported this to Tivo on Dec. 6 - and repeatedly after that - and only one tech person was familiar with the issue... that's really inexcusable. Once a bug has been found, it should be documented - and documented well enough that Tivo rep's can find this information when other customers call in with the same issue.

I thought Tivo was now monitoring this forum. Be nice to hear from one of them on this thread.
Lynn.
Yes, it would be nice. I gave up on nice a while ago from any CE manufacturer. The deletion issue is strange too. I left a recording sit for two weeks. The "delete on" date would change on the deletion day. I got the Tivo (not Desktop) to finally show a yellow dot with the exclamation point. And then the date moved again. It's not a To Do List problem from what I can tell since I always have 120% of capacity on my list. Bugs are a way to keep programmers employed. At least that helps the economy. If it was perfect there wouldn't be a seasonal update. As you can tell, my expectations are low.
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Old 02-11-2013, 09:21 PM   #35
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NOW here's the rub, when I xfer the files to my computer using the tivo desktop, they are reduced in size to the normal size it did before 12/6. All of them are reduced. The hd channels and some others do make bigger files but up to a 2 hr program is 2.05gb. Up to 5x larger than they should be on the tivo.
NOTHING is being reduced in size. It's simply a reporting issue.

Tivo "says" the file is 2.05 GB. So when you download it, your downloading program of choice is showing you percentage AS IF THE FILE WERE 2.05 GB in size.

But it ends when it really should end.. That's why the % download is wrong.

I'm not saying this is good.. this is a fairly basic thing I'm surprised they got wrong, and I also wonder if this bad value is being used internally in the Tivo.. it *seems* to be since I've noted before that my Premiere 4 seems to "pre-delete" things for recordings a LOT more easily than my S3 or TivoHD has done.
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:02 PM   #36
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falll update

Well, I understand your reasoning, but before fall update, actual kb, mb, gb were reported. Why on earth would they change the way actual usage is reported? And the tivo feels the extraneous bytes are used because instead of 414 hrs sd, I can barely get 200 hrs on each tivo. That's why I xfer them back and forth, to have room. Especially when I can seldom get the tivos to recognize the computers and allow d/l's from computer to tivo. The comps always see the tivos, but seldom the opposite is true since the update.

Is anyone else have the same problem with the tivo not showing the comps on the my list page? I know the network is good and supports 2 smartphones, 2 tivos, a wireless printer, 2 laptops, 2 desktops in one direction only and a tablet.

This update is the worst clusterbang they have ever come up with in my tivo history. I don't know if the 80 hour's demise cause a prob now leaving me all new technology when the old 40 and 80 hour tivos worked just fine. Now that the 80 hour is out of the loop, the two premieres do not seem to find the computers, none of the 4 in use. I dunno.
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:23 PM   #37
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It's some kind of bug, I don't think there's any way this is intentional. I wonder if it's some kind of rounding issue. (something akin to rounding, at least)
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:42 PM   #38
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I've also had the issue of my Tivo not seeing my computer. When I called Tivo about it, they suggested switching to Beacon (and not bonjour). I don't remember the exact steps they walked me through - but basically there are options for Tivo Desktop to access the network with Bonjour or Beacon. (A while ago, I remember hearing that Bonjour was preferable if it works. And for a couple of years it worked fine. I don't recall why Bonjour was considered better).

Once I changed to Beacon - and restarted Tivo Desktop, my Tivos do find my computer. A couple of times, either I reset it to Bonjour - or it just went back to Bonjour as a default. And for a while my tivos would see the pc - but at some point they stop - and I have to reset it to Beacon.

I don't know if that will be helpful. And I don't know if that happened with the Fall update - but it was certainly around that time.

Wildly inaccurate file size readings seems like a significant problem. I'll probably call them again at some point - but it's a pretty frustrating use of time.

Lynn.
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:15 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by lynnalexandra View Post
Wildly inaccurate file size readings seems like a significant problem. I'll probably call them again at some point - but it's a pretty frustrating use of time.
Lynn.
I agree Lynn. Yet the only time I can see a bloated file size is when selecting which file to transfer with the Desktop. Are there other places file sizes are reported wrong?
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:20 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post
I agree Lynn. Yet the only time I can see a bloated file size is when selecting which file to transfer with the Desktop. Are there other places file sizes are reported wrong?
Select a show and press the info button. The wrong reported size is listed there.
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:09 PM   #41
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Select a show and press the info button. The wrong reported size is listed there.
Interesting. I never saw that before. This is my first TiVo and I never record SD channels. There doesn't seem to be a problem with HD, only 480i. And the percentage seems right: 30 minutes displays as <1% and 2.05Gb. It can't be both on my little 320Gb/"45" hour unit. The Desktop program shows 834Mb. Perhaps TiVo never tested that item with 480i content?
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:05 PM   #42
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And the percentage seems right: 30 minutes displays as <1% and 2.05Gb. It can't be both on my little 320Gb/"45" hour unit.
I think it's right (well, consistent), 1% would be 3.2Gb so it's <1% whether it's 2.05Gb or 400Mb. I just tried downloading to PC and then deleting from TiVo and downloading from PC. Now the size is reporting correctly, and I'm not totally sure from the discussion in this thread if this bug is having an impact on TiVo's willingness to save recordings.

I'm willing to copy back and forth (as long as I don't lose sight of the PC) if it will increase the number of recordings locally on the TiVo, but I don't want to do it if internally the TiVo is counting that 30min of SD as ~400Mb.

Thanks!
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:34 PM   #43
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That's not correct. It doesn't matter if the program is SD or HD. There is now a minimum reported size for all shows of around 2 GB. Also the reported recording size of some shows I record in HD increased by about 25% despite being over 2 GB in length, while other shows did not increase. I think 720p recordings increased while 1080i one did not. It's possible that the TiVo is reporting the size that it thinks the recording would be if it was 1080i. In any case it's wrong.

See my post in the original thread for more details.
Yes, I see this now. All 1/2HR HD recordings from 720p sources and some from 1080i are now 4.1GB, when actual file sizes are approx 3GB
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Old 02-15-2013, 01:40 AM   #44
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TiVo support responded that they were aware of the issue:
"Thank you for contacting TiVo Customer Support and letting us know about your affected units. Our engineering team was alerted to this issue in early December. Currently, they are working on resolving the various bug issues in 20.2.2. We do not have an ETA at this time on when the next SW update will be released. We do apologize for any inconvenience this has caused you and will continue to track these issues with the ultimate goal to resolve them with another update."

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Old 04-19-2013, 07:18 PM   #45
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I initially thought my unit was defective when I noticed the identical file sizes (2.05GB) for different show lengths, still really not sure if so. From what I so far found on the matter, the Fall Update started this issue...DO all Premiers including 4 and xl4 have this problem? And will we have to wait for Tivo software update and hope for a fix?
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:19 PM   #46
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Observation from using Desktop. Premiere set to 1080i only. Record a 1080i show and it will use around 7.5GB per hour. A 720P show needs about 3GB - 3.5GB.

I enabled 480i and selected an SD channel. The size, while still recording a 30 minute show on NBC, was your 2,100MB from the start. The Duration was incrementing. My AVR shows 480i and screen looks like it also. Half way through recording I set the output back to 1080i. After the recording finished I began a transfer to my laptop. During the transfer the Duration started at 30 minutes and the size displayed an increasing amount. The size after the transfer finished was 509MB.

I don't understand the results so I can't make a conclusion. I never record SD with the TiVo. Is it possible that you are looking at the size on the TiVo and not the size after the transfer? It's probable the size displayed on the TiVo is incorrect.
But setting the display resolution to 1080i only shouldn't have anything to do with anything because if you are recording a show that is broadcast in 1080i/p it would be a bigger file size then a show of the same length on a channel broadcast in 720p.
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Old 04-20-2013, 06:20 AM   #47
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But setting the display resolution to 1080i only shouldn't have anything to do with anything because if you are recording a show that is broadcast in 1080i/p it would be a bigger file size then a show of the same length on a channel broadcast in 720p.
Is that what kmttg shows you? The issue is only with small SD shows and only with the TiVo display of the size. The file size is a function of bit rate and time, not the resolution of the broadcast. TiVo and most other DVRs all work that way. You like 1080i. If you record Touch on Fox/720p and an old Gunsmoke on NBC/1080i, Touch will be larger. It's a big world. Some people only get SD digital cable or want to record small SD shows to keep the aspect ratio.

Last edited by JoeKustra : 04-20-2013 at 06:48 AM.
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Old 04-20-2013, 09:01 AM   #48
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Changing the display resolution has absolutely no effect on recording. As the name implies, all it changes is what the TiVo puts out. Digital sources are recorded as is.
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Old 04-21-2013, 12:29 AM   #49
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Changing the display resolution has absolutely no effect on recording. As the name implies, all it changes is what the TiVo puts out. Digital sources are recorded as is.
That's what I was saying.
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Old 04-21-2013, 12:31 AM   #50
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Is that what kmttg shows you? The issue is only with small SD shows and only with the TiVo display of the size. The file size is a function of bit rate and time, not the resolution of the broadcast. TiVo and most other DVRs all work that way. You like 1080i. If you record Touch on Fox/720p and an old Gunsmoke on NBC/1080i, Touch will be larger. It's a big world. Some people only get SD digital cable or want to record small SD shows to keep the aspect ratio.
I agree that bitrate does make a big difference in file size, by which I mean space taken by the recording on the TiVo hard drive. I assume that the bitrate would be different based on the resolution of the program because there is more visual data in a 1080i/p video then 720p I'm guessing?
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Old 04-21-2013, 06:58 AM   #51
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I agree that bitrate does make a big difference in file size, by which I mean space taken by the recording on the TiVo hard drive. I assume that the bitrate would be different based on the resolution of the program because there is more visual data in a 1080i/p video then 720p I'm guessing?
I can't seem to find where the files size, when dealing with a 480i 30min show, ISN'T bad. View the file residing on the TiVo with TiVo, Desktop, or kmttg and it displays that 2.05 or 2.10 GB. Move the file to a PC and it is now 780MB.

I made 10 30min recordings on my 320GB Premiere. Each was 2.05GB and said <1% used. All 10 added up to just over 20GB and under My Shows to disk use went from 21% to 29%. That's wrong also. I'm not in the mood to fill up my drive to see if the capacity displayed can exceed 100% but you are welcome to try. Floating point math can be hard to program.

I did find one disturbing factor. The bit rate for CW 480i is 9.8MBs. If that is correct my ABC station at 720p has a problem. Also, if the 1080i/p and 720p shows of 1hour were a fixed size why bother to show it. Every show is different, even a repeat, since commercials will change the size slightly.

It seems you are speculating based on the display from the TiVo. I am observing the results of testing with several tools.
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Old 04-24-2013, 07:25 AM   #52
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I suspect most premiere customers record in HD. HD makes sense even if you plan on using TTG to transfer the show to an iPad. Probably the reason why there isn't much talk about the issue and why it seems to be a low priority.

Cable systems are starting to encrypt all stations, including OTA. There isn't any reason why a cable system has to even carry SD channels. A HD box will output lower resolutions for customers using non-HD TV sets. I don't know of any cable systems which are currently doing it.

Tivo needs to "make up" a size for deciding how much room might be needed to record a show and if any existing shows have to be deleted. Is it possible the 2Gig minimum size evidently being used for estimating SD program size is never updated with the actual size after the recording is completed?
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Old 04-24-2013, 08:15 AM   #53
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Cable systems are starting to encrypt all stations, including OTA. There isn't any reason why a cable system has to even carry SD channels. A HD box will output lower resolutions for customers using non-HD TV sets. I don't know of any cable systems which are currently doing it.
There are still a lot of SD only boxes out there, including all of those DTA's. If you get an HD box from Comcast, not only is the monthly cost more than a DTA, a $10/mo "HD Technology fee" will be added to your account.
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Old 04-24-2013, 09:35 AM   #54
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I suspect most premiere customers record in HD. HD makes sense even if you plan on using TTG to transfer the show to an iPad. Probably the reason why there isn't much talk about the issue and why it seems to be a low priority.

Cable systems are starting to encrypt all stations, including OTA. There isn't any reason why a cable system has to even carry SD channels. A HD box will output lower resolutions for customers using non-HD TV sets. I don't know of any cable systems which are currently doing it.

Tivo needs to "make up" a size for deciding how much room might be needed to record a show and if any existing shows have to be deleted. Is it possible the 2Gig minimum size evidently being used for estimating SD program size is never updated with the actual size after the recording is completed?
Is it possible the 2Gig minimum size evidently being used for estimating SD program size is never updated with the actual size after the recording is completed?

It is updated. On the PC, not the Tivo.

I can record a 30min HD program and get about 3-4Mb, not the constant 2.05 displayed for SD and, perhaps, used internally. As for "make up", I never saw software that made a good guess.

Simple test. Find some SD content and keep recording until your drive gets full. Then see if the storage used equals the storage displayed. BTW, recording 1hr SD shows will get you 4.10Gb. That's a fixed number too. Also, content counts. Like many others I get 1080i on all channels. The SD mirror channels, which may go to heaven soon (but not tomorrow) are a good source of SD content.

There isn't any reason a cable company has to carry analog. But they do. Maybe the AARP has a lobby for cable? All cable is local.

At least we can agree that this is a low priority problem but fun for speculation.
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Old 04-24-2013, 09:50 AM   #55
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There isn't any reason a cable company has to carry analog. But they do. Maybe the AARP has a lobby for cable? All cable is local.
Some still do. But a lot, including the local Comcast, have converted to all digital. And more will follow.
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Old 06-09-2013, 03:42 PM   #56
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Hi,

I'm checking back on this thread because it's now June - and no software update to fix this issue. I have three tivo premiers (2TB each). And I absolutely record in SD for programs I want to save so I can save 2700 hours of programming and not 300+ hours. But with the wrong file size being interpreted by Tivo, my Tivo's are showing 95-99% full when, in fact, there's less than 1TB of programming on them. All three of my Tivo's are over 95% now. Transferring them back and forth is a ridiculous waste of time.

When I had called Tivo in February, they told me it would be fixed in the spring update. Has there been a spring update? or is it yet to come? Have there been any developments on this issue that just weren't posted back here in the past couple of months?

Thanks.
Lynn.
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Old 06-09-2013, 03:57 PM   #57
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When I had called Tivo in February, they told me it would be fixed in the spring update. Has there been a spring update? or is it yet to come? Have there been any developments on this issue that just weren't posted back here in the past couple of months?

Thanks.
Lynn.
There's an entire thread about the spring update. This particular problem does seem to have been fixed but others have not and there are some new issues.
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Old 06-09-2013, 04:01 PM   #58
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Thanks so much for your response. This issue wasn't fixed on my Tivo's. They still report 2.1 GB for a 1/2 hour sd sitcom.

I'll check out the other thread now.

Thank you.
Lynn.
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Old 06-09-2013, 04:37 PM   #59
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Thanks so much for your response. This issue wasn't fixed on my Tivo's. They still report 2.1 GB for a 1/2 hour sd sitcom.

I'll check out the other thread now.

Thank you.
Lynn.
Then you dont have the update yet
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Old 06-09-2013, 04:44 PM   #60
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Thanks so much for your response. This issue wasn't fixed on my Tivo's. They still report 2.1 GB for a 1/2 hour sd sitcom.

I'll check out the other thread now.

Thank you.
Lynn.
The fix isn't retroactive. Only new recordings made after the update will have the correct size.
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