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Old 01-30-2013, 07:49 PM   #1
tough joe
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Cable Co. announces move to all digital... and I own a few STDT. Now what?

Just got this notice in the mail - see this link - http://www.advancedcable.net/coralsprings_dta.php to inform us that the cable system is going all digital. Here is my set up. 2 hdtv's 6 months old. 1 crt tv 20 years old. Now for my tivos. I have two series 2 Dual Tuners, and 1 Tivo HD. I use all dual tuners regularly and TTG and MRV. I cannot lose any of these functions. The cable company customer service rep says everything will continue to work because i have tivos connected to my tvs. Also, the video on the website above titled "Do you need a dta?" ( a gray button in the middle right side of the page) - the video says "if you have tivo, you're fine." However a few people have told me never to trust the cable company when it comes to conversions like this...

so my question is - will i be fine? Will my dual tuners continue to work? will all my tivos work as i explained above? i dont want to get digital cable boxes at all... any help or info is very appreciated. thanks,

Anthony
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:02 PM   #2
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Unfortunately, the S2 analog dual tuner functionality will not work with an all digital system. They will need a cable box or DTA and will be limited to one tuner only. The TiVo HD should be fine though.
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:18 PM   #3
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The TiVo HD should be fine though.
But it will need a cablecard from the cable co.
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:24 PM   #4
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Comcast did that in our area a few years back and gave every one who wanted it a digital converter. But they also offered the digital starter package at the same price as the analog package but threw in all the music channels, on demand, and some movie channels for the same price. So it was worth moving to the digital starter package. My parents made the move and are glad they did.
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:26 PM   #5
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They have to give him the 1sr cable card for free for the tivoHD. The second should cost about $2.
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Old 01-31-2013, 12:04 AM   #6
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They have to give him the 1sr cable card for free for the tivoHD. The second should cost about $2.
If it is a true TiVo HD and not an original Tivo Series3 High Definition, it only needs one multi-stream card, which is what they are supposed to issue anyway.
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:33 AM   #7
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so i'll need to get rid of my dual tuner s2 tivos and replace them with s3 to keep my dual recording options?

i read online that directtv now has dual tuner tivos? is that an option?
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Old 01-31-2013, 06:05 AM   #8
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so i'll need to get rid of my dual tuner s2 tivos and replace them with s3 to keep my dual recording options?

i read online that directtv now has dual tuner tivos? is that an option?
You can't use your TiVo HD with DirecTV and DirecTV TiVos can only be used with DirecTV.
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Old 01-31-2013, 08:02 AM   #9
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lpwcomp - thanks for your help. From what I gather, here are my options. Is this correct?

1) stick with cable and change out the Series 2s and replace them with digital tivos (premier 4 and upgrade the hd myself - or buy premier 4 xl) series 3?) with cable cards. (I dont want to use ir blasters or use a cable box - just the tivos) then sell my old tivo's on ebay (they have upgraded hd's and have lifetime service)

2) go with directv and get the new tivos from them. ( I dont know anything about directv or their tivos. How are they? Will I be disappointed?

3) I have uverse available in my area but i hear way too mang bad things about them - plus i dont like the whole room dvr as i record hundreds of hours of programming on each of my tivos... and the whoel room dvr wont cut it.

What do you guys think of what I wrote? any help or suggestions.
I dont watch sports, so directv sports packages are not my thing.

Again - thank you thank you thank you all for your help.
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Old 01-31-2013, 11:23 AM   #10
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lpwcomp - thanks for your help. From what I gather, here are my options. Is this correct?
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Originally Posted by tough joe View Post
1) stick with cable and change out the Series 2s and replace them with digital tivos (premier 4 and upgrade the hd myself - or buy premier 4 xl) series 3?) with cable cards. (I dont want to use ir blasters or use a cable box - just the tivos) then sell my old tivo's on ebay (they have upgraded hd's and have lifetime service)
You could get used TiVo HDs or Premieres with PLS from eBay or Craigslist. CableCARDs are rented from your cable company, not purchased. You can't use an external cablebox with any of the Series3(your Tivo HD is a Series3) or a Series4 (Premiere). The latest Series4 models - Premiere 4 and Premiere XL4 have 4 tuners but are digital cable only, no over the air capability. The original Premiere and Premiere XL have 2 tuners but have OTA capability.

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2) go with directv and get the new tivos from them. ( I dont know anything about directv or their tivos. How are they? Will I be disappointed?
Probably. You cannot transfer nor stream recordings from/to them.

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3) I have uverse available in my area but i hear way too mang bad things about them - plus i dont like the whole room dvr as i record hundreds of hours of programming on each of my tivos... and the whoel room dvr wont cut it.
No TiVos on u-verse.

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What do you guys think of what I wrote? any help or suggestions.
I dont watch sports, so directv sports packages are not my thing.

Again - thank you thank you thank you all for your help.

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Old 01-31-2013, 11:35 AM   #11
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Unfortunately, the S2 analog dual tuner functionality will not work with an all digital system. They will need a cable box or DTA and will be limited to one tuner only. The TiVo HD should be fine though.
what is irritating is that even though technically the cabel co. says my tivos will continue to work, the functionality is being reduced (going from dual tuners to single tuner - which sucks).
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Old 01-31-2013, 12:19 PM   #12
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You could get used TiVo HDs or Premieres with PLS from eBay or Craigslist. CableCARDs are rented from your cable company, not purchased. You can't use an external cablebox with any of the Series3(your Tivo HD is a Series3) or a Series4 (Premiere). The latest Series4 models - Premiere 4 and Premiere XL4 have 4 tuners but are digital cable only, no over the air capability. The original Premiere and Premiere XL have 2 tuners but have OTA capability.

Probably. You cannot transfer nor stream recordings from/to them.

No TiVos on u-verse.
Ok - Uverse is out. And definitely no Directv because I must have tivo to tivo transfer.

So my only choice is to get new tivo's - premiers xl most likely . I have never used or dealt with cable cards. What should I know before I start diving in this?

thanks
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Old 01-31-2013, 12:55 PM   #13
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Ok - Uverse is out. And definitely no Directv because I must have tivo to tivo transfer.

So my only choice is to get new tivo's - premiers xl most likely . I have never used or dealt with cable cards. What should I know before I start diving in this?

thanks
You might start with http://www.fcc.gov/guides/cablecard-know-your-rights. That way, when you look at http://www.advancedcable.net/FAQ%20CableCARD.htm, you'll know that the part about requiring a technician to install a CableCARD is a flat out lie.

I would suggest that you call them about getting a CableCARD for your TiVo HD if there is not one already installed. That way, you can fight any necessary battles with them now and hopefully avoid them when you acquire the Premieres. First though, post the exact model # of your TiVo HD.

It would actually surprise me if there isn't a CableCARD already installed since you cannot fully utilize any HD cable channels w/o one.
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Old 01-31-2013, 03:42 PM   #14
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I don't under stand why you are fighting the change to go digital. Did you check to see if the pricing is as I mentioned with my parents? Either way you are going to lose one tuner in each ser 2 Tivo. However, you will gain a better signal and more channels to watch.
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Old 01-31-2013, 03:48 PM   #15
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Here are the prices for your area:

http://www.advancedcable.net/cspricing.html
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Old 01-31-2013, 03:49 PM   #16
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I don't under stand why you are fighting the change to go digital. Did you check to see if the pricing is as I mentioned with my parents? Either way you are going to lose one tuner in each ser 2 Tivo. However, you will gain a better signal and more channels to watch.
That was helpful.
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:03 PM   #17
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Here are the prices for your area:

http://www.advancedcable.net/cspricing.html
No mention of CableCARD on that list.
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Old 01-31-2013, 05:22 PM   #18
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They mention the cable cards all the way near the bottom. It's strange the way they word it. They say the card is included with the box charge. Comcast uses cable cards built into their box. Looks like their box uses a card that gets installed on location. Either way the Fed's say you are you get one for free.
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Old 01-31-2013, 06:01 PM   #19
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Either way the Fed's say you are you get one for free.
Where do they say that?
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Old 01-31-2013, 07:12 PM   #20
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I don't under stand why you are fighting the change to go digital. Did you check to see if the pricing is as I mentioned with my parents? Either way you are going to lose one tuner in each ser 2 Tivo. However, you will gain a better signal and more channels to watch.
You could be correct - but 1) this switch is going to cost me about $600 per tivo unit - so about $1200 (2 premiers plus lifetime srv), and i didnt ask for it. 2) my monthly bill looks like its going to go up. Im only interested in channels 2-99. but now i need to get 6 cable cards - at $2 each means $12 more per month?? im not happy about that either... im thankful to God that I can afford these changes, but im just not happy about it. no reason for the change except to charge more money...
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Old 01-31-2013, 07:25 PM   #21
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You might start with http://www.fcc.gov/guides/cablecard-know-your-rights. That way, when you look at http://www.advancedcable.net/FAQ%20CableCARD.htm, you'll know that the part about requiring a technician to install a CableCARD is a flat out lie.

First though, post the exact model # of your TiVo HD.

It would actually surprise me if there isn't a CableCARD already installed since you cannot fully utilize any HD cable channels w/o one.
this is the tivo i have. http://www.rakuten.com/prod/tivo-hd-...ngId=210276712

i dont have any cablecards installed as i have straight up analog service. i use no cable boxes. i use only channels 2-99. it works for me. (well, workED for me)...
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Old 01-31-2013, 07:48 PM   #22
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You could be correct - but 1) this switch is going to cost me about $600 per tivo unit - so about $1200 (2 premiers plus lifetime srv), and i didnt ask for it. 2) my monthly bill looks like its going to go up. Im only interested in channels 2-99. but now i need to get 6 cable cards - at $2 each means $12 more per month?? im not happy about that either... im thankful to God that I can afford these changes, but im just not happy about it. no reason for the change except to charge more money...
The only TiVo model that requires 2 cards is the TCD648250 Series 3 Standalone High Definition DVR. The Premiere only has one slot and needs an m-card and while the TiVo HD and HD XL have two slots, they only need one m-card. Cable providers are required to provide m-cards unless you specifically request an s-card. If your package includes a converter, you should able to get one card for free in lieu of the box. You will have to pay $4/mo total for the other 2 cards plus $90 total up front "security deposit". You may also have to fight with them if they try to charge you additional outlet fees.

s-card = single-stream CableCARD
m-card = multi-stream CableCARD (can support up to 6 simultaneous streams)
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Old 01-31-2013, 07:49 PM   #23
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I have one of those also and it only needs one m-card.
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Old 01-31-2013, 07:55 PM   #24
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I looked at the rate sheet again and the deposit is per household so would only be $30.
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Old 01-31-2013, 08:07 PM   #25
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That was helpful.
Isn't it? I love how people assume that everyone has the money to replace two lifetimed TiVos or get a new TV with a digital tuner at the drop of a hat.
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:58 AM   #26
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The only TiVo model that requires 2 cards is the TCD648250 Series 3 Standalone High Definition DVR. The Premiere only has one slot and needs an m-card and while the TiVo HD and HD XL have two slots, they only need one m-card. Cable providers are required to provide m-cards unless you specifically request an s-card. If your package includes a converter, you should able to get one card for free in lieu of the box. You will have to pay $4/mo total for the other 2 cards plus $90 total up front "security deposit". You may also have to fight with them if they try to charge you additional outlet fees.

s-card = single-stream CableCARD
m-card = multi-stream CableCARD (can support up to 6 simultaneous streams)

lpwcomp - i LOVE the burn notice signature referrence. made my day when i saw it.

oh interesting - i thought i would need 2 cablecards for each new tivo (one per tuner - 2 per tivo). i havent even looked at the "per outlet charge" until now... holy crap - $14 per month extra? or.. unless that's for the channels above 99.. which i have no need or interest in....

so should i wait until they switch everything over? or should i start to make the switch myself now?

also, will the new premiers have rtr transfer - i have hours and hours of shows spread among my series 2 tivos. how should i handle that? im thinking i'll have to transfer the shows to the tivo hd first (like a holding area) until the new premiers are bought, installed set up with digital cable - then transfer the shows back to the rooms with the new premiers ?? would that work?

what about kmttg - will that still work with the new premiers that i get? and will all tivos continue to be networked together?

my sister inlaw is in the same cable system - she has a series 2 single tuner. im guessing all she'll need is that converter and she can continue to record the same way?

thanks sooooo much again
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:48 AM   #27
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so should i wait until they switch everything over? or should i start to make the switch myself now?
I went through this last year with Comcast and I would suggest getting everything taken care of well ahead of time. Getting my analog-only TiVo HD up and running with the cablecard was very straight forward and worked out pretty well, but you never know if you will run into issues. It sucks that you have to incur the costs of new hardware to maintain your dual tuner setup, but you're pretty much at the mercy of the cable providers when they decide to make changes.
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Old 02-01-2013, 12:32 PM   #28
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lpwcomp - i LOVE the burn notice signature referrence. made my day when i saw it.
Thanks. BTW, I do not exclude myself from its applicability.

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oh interesting - i thought i would need 2 cablecards for each new tivo (one per tuner - 2 per tivo). i havent even looked at the "per outlet charge" until now... holy crap - $14 per month extra? or.. unless that's for the channels above 99.. which i have no need or interest in....
Yeah, that is probably the biggest downside to the "Digital conversion" since it allows them to return to the "per outlet" charge they used to have. Actually, it is even worse than before They used to charge for each cable drop. Now they charge for each piece of connected equipment. The FCC regulations are a bit murky in this area even if the FCC were interested in enforcing them. The charge sheet is somewhat difficult to interpret to determine what your monthly bill will be, especially since there is nothing on there about a "customer owned equipment credit", to which you should be entitled.

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so should i wait until they switch everything over? or should i start to make the switch myself now?
I would look into acquiring a CableCARD from them for your THD so you can see how much trouble it is going to be.

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also, will the new premiers have rtr transfer - i have hours and hours of shows spread among my series 2 tivos. how should i handle that? im thinking i'll have to transfer the shows to the tivo hd first (like a holding area) until the new premiers are bought, installed set up with digital cable - then transfer the shows back to the rooms with the new premiers ?? would that work?
The Premieres support networking just fine. They are faster too. You can also stream between Premieres so if your cable provider starts marking things as copy protected, you will still be able to watch anything recorded on a Premiere on another Premiere.

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what about kmttg - will that still work with the new premiers that i get? and will all tivos continue to be networked together?
As a matter of fact, kmttg can do more things with a Premiere than with older TiVos.

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my sister inlaw is in the same cable system - she has a series 2 single tuner. im guessing all she'll need is that converter and she can continue to record the same way?
That would be correct. She will need to use an IR blaster so that the TiVo can control the cable box.

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thanks sooooo much again

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Old 02-01-2013, 01:13 PM   #29
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One potential caveat to add about your concerns with room to room transfers. All of your old content will move fine no matter what. However, since the signals will now be digital, the CCI-byte may come into play. In basic terms, there is a portion of the digital signal that cable companies can assign values to restrict how recorded content can be saved and transferred.

Given that this is a small, regional cable company, this probably won't be an issue. However, there is the potential that the CCI-byte is 0x02 on some of the channels. This would prevent all "transfers" of the show between all Tivos and your computer. The Premieres do, however, allow "streaming" of copy-protected content. So, if your digital channels were copy-protected, you could still watch shows between the Premieres, but not between Premiere and TivoHD or Premiere and computer.

It's a complex mess, but hopefully you won't have to worry about this issue.
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Old 02-01-2013, 01:42 PM   #30
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They have to give him the 1sr cable card for free for the tivoHD. The second should cost about $2.
where does it say that?
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