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Old 12-29-2012, 09:10 PM   #1
videobruce
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Thoughts about the 'cons' from this review on a TiVoHD

This is a old review for a older product, but I would like to know how you guys feel about these comments from this review;
http://dvr.productwiki.com/tivo-tcd652160/
Quote:
Internal software glitch won't pick up HD video from certain broadcasters

HD picture quality through internal tuner is much lower than when using an external tuner
Channel scan misses a lot of analog cable channels

Prone to lock-ups, often happens if it fails when trying to get WiFi, needs to be unplugged to be reset

Wi-Fi adapter is very slow to make a connection

Interface with the remote is slow, takes awhile for anything to happen after a button press
Especially the first three points. What does he mean "HD video from certain broadcasters"? And "HD picture quality through internal tuner is much lower". I know many have stated the sensitivity is suppose to be lower than the original Series three, but I never read anything about what was said here.
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Old 12-29-2012, 11:51 PM   #2
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Review was done when the software was at 9.2, so obviously those bugs got fixed?

Maybe the reviewer didn't know what he was doing.
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Old 12-30-2012, 08:16 AM   #3
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so obviously those bugs got fixed?
Why would it be "obvious" that those bugs were fixed?? When did you see any firmware "fix" every bug in a device?

Anyone else? I'm looking for either confirmation or denial of the above "cons".
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Old 12-30-2012, 08:27 AM   #4
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Quote:
Internal software glitch won't pick up HD video from certain broadcasters
My TivoHD picks up every local broadcaster. There is a problem with Tribune's RF assignment for one subchannel in the lineup, but doing a manual channel scan found it and added it to the tunable channels (there's just no guide data for the tunable version.) I've tried communicating with Tribune and Tivo, but gave up after several months since the channel in question is only an SD copy of the main channel. The bottom line is the channel tunes fine after a manual channel scan. The tuner in general is top notch IMHO.

Quote:
HD picture quality through internal tuner is much lower than when using an external tuner
Not sure how to measure this objectively, but I have no complaints about my TivoHD's picture quality.
Quote:
Channel scan misses a lot of analog cable channels
I don't have cable, so can't comment.

Quote:
Prone to lock-ups, often happens if it fails when trying to get WiFi, needs to be unplugged to be reset
I can't remember the last time my TivoHD locked up on me, if it ever did.

Quote:
Wi-Fi adapter is very slow to make a connection
The performance of the USB G adapter is lackluster in regards to throughput, but in my experience it makes and keeps a connection fine. I've recently replaced my G adapters with wireless N bridges (one Tivo brand and two third party brands) which I'd recommend to maximize throughput if you plan on transferring shows a lot.

Quote:
Interface with the remote is slow, takes awhile for anything to happen after a button press
The interface isn't remarkably speedy, but it's definitely not slow. At worst I have to give it a second or two for a list to fully populate before I can enter the next command without the "bong" sound effect telling me it's too soon. I've no real complaints with the interface responsiveness.

I hope this answers your questions. Again, I use my TivoHDs for OTA only, so YMMV for cable use.
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Old 12-30-2012, 08:34 AM   #5
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Thanks.
Quote:
Internal software glitch won't pick up HD video from certain broadcasters
I don't know if he is talking about 'cable' or OTA. CATV, it could be anything. OTA, reception issue.
Quote:
HD picture quality through internal tuner is much lower than when using an external tuner
This is what I'm most interested in. I have to assume he made some comparison between this and another 'tuner' to make this statement.
Quote:
Interface with the remote is slow, takes awhile for anything to happen after a button press
He doesn't state which functions. For all I know it could be a "remote" issue.

It's this PQ comment that I was the most concerned about.
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Old 12-30-2012, 09:33 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
This is a old review for a older product, but I would like to know how you guys feel about these comments from this review;
http://dvr.productwiki.com/tivo-tcd652160/

Especially the first three points. What does he mean "HD video from certain broadcasters"? And "HD picture quality through internal tuner is much lower". I know many have stated the sensitivity is suppose to be lower than the original Series three, but I never read anything about what was said here.
We've had an HD for going on three years now, and I find NONE of those are problems. We're perfectly happy with it...
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Old 12-30-2012, 09:38 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
Why would it be "obvious" that those bugs were fixed?? When did you see any firmware "fix" every bug in a device?
It's obvious to me because I've never seen any of the "bugs" that you listed from the article. I suppose if I could roll the software back to 9.2 on my Tivo, maybe I would.

Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
Anyone else? I'm looking for either confirmation or denial of the above "cons".
I think, TiVo did have some problems when they first introduced their branded wireless adapters, but again, a software update must have fixed it because I haven't read of anyone having a problem in a very long time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by article
HD picture quality through internal tuner is much lower than when using an external tuner
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
This is what I'm most interested in. I have to assume he made some comparison between this and another 'tuner' to make this statement.
Yeah, and who knows what that 'other tuner' was? Was it in another TV or was it part of some high dollar testing equipment?
It would help to know what he used to test against the Tivo.
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:19 AM   #8
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Ancient Review Before Digital Broadcast

Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
This is a old review for a older product, but I would like to know how you guys feel about these comments from this review;


Especially the first three points. What does he mean "HD video from certain broadcasters"? And "HD picture quality through internal tuner is much lower". I know many have stated the sensitivity is suppose to be lower than the original Series three, but I never read anything about what was said here.
I only read a couple other posts before I decided to chime in. Almost all the cons are no longer applicable because analog broadcasts (cable or OTA) no longer exist. Everything everywhere is digital. Do not confuse Standard Def with analog. Digital signals (think packets instead of waves) have none of the severe signal degradation issues common to analog.

A digital signal is a digital signal, (a packet of data is a packet of data) and there is no difference between line providers. The only difference is line noise and interference and signal strength which vary by location more than by provider. Digital filters keep your signal cleaner than analog.

Over the Air (antenna based) signal is a result of distance, interference (buildings, trees, terrain), and antenna quality. Digital OTA has almost eliminated the old fashioned power line interferences. Think FM vs AM for signal quality differences between digital and analog.

Series 3 / HD system is a great tool. I purchased a used one , added a comcast cablecard and couldn't be happier with my LG LCD 50" system.

Added feature is it replaces the cable box by virtue of cable card. Even if you allow your Tivo subscription to lapse, the unit will continue to provide you with cable signal decoding, dual signal recording. No guide , etc but you still have pause / record functionality.
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:42 AM   #9
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analog broadcasts (cable or OTA) no longer exist. Everything everywhere is digital.
OTA correct, CATV WRONG! Our cable TV system still has over 50 analog channels. Not all systems have dumped analog yet.
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:50 AM   #10
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Any analog channels you still have are probably duplicated as digital channels in the lineup. If you use a CableCard, you will get the digital version.

It is only a matter of time before every cable company drops all analog channels to gain the space for more digital channels. Those 50 analog channels are using room that could carry about 500 digital SD channels or about 100 digital HD channels.
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:56 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramblinche81 View Post
Almost all the cons are no longer applicable because analog broadcasts (cable or OTA) no longer exist. Everything everywhere is digital.
It doesn't matter for the original poster of this thread, as the TiVo in question is only for Digital OTA, but for the record, there is still analog TV here in Denver. It is low power and mostly religious/Spanish, but it is still there. The government said they were getting rid of all analog TV broadcasts, but they lied. I am just glad they don't lie to us about anything else. ;-D
Not that it matters as far as the analog broadcasts, as they are even more worthless than digital over the air broadcasts, as they are such low power.

Last edited by replaytv : 12-30-2012 at 12:15 PM.
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Old 12-30-2012, 11:01 AM   #12
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Any analog channels you still have are probably duplicated as digital channels in the lineup.
And the quality due to excessive compression is worse.
Quote:
Those 50 analog channels are using room that could carry about 500 digital SD channels or about 100 digital HD channels.
More like 150-200 HD channels.
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Old 12-30-2012, 11:10 AM   #13
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Looks like all of those cons were added by one user named booker so you'd be better off asking him but I've not seen any of these issues although the last is a subjective judgement.

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Old 12-30-2012, 11:34 AM   #14
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Enough said.
I was just surprised about the comments since I didn't see them before after manu searches and reading.
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Old 12-30-2012, 02:57 PM   #15
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HD picture quality through internal tuner is much lower than when using an external tuner
Since the TiVo HD can't use an external tuner for HD, this statement is nonsensical. If he was comparing HD channels (internal tuner) to SD (external), he's out of his mind. If he was comparing SD channels internal vs. external, then he doesn't know what he's doing. And if he meant to compare the TiVo HD's internal tuner to the tuner of some other device (not connected to the TiVo), then he's just a terrible writer.

Edit: Really, the TiVo HD can't use an external tuner for SD channels, either, since it has no way to control the box, like a Series 2 does. So who knows what this guy was trying to say?
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Old 12-30-2012, 09:18 PM   #16
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SD doesn't mean analog

Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
OTA correct, CATV WRONG! Our cable TV system still has over 50 analog channels. Not all systems have dumped analog yet.
I go back to my original statement, SD is not same as analog. There are a lot of reasons why catv sends sd channels with digital signals and very few catv operators are still pumping out analog signals for use on analog sets.
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:14 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramblinche81 View Post
I go back to my original statement, SD is not same as analog. There are a lot of reasons why catv sends sd channels with digital signals and very few catv operators are still pumping out analog signals for use on analog sets.
All SD is not analog, but I'm pretty sure that in this context all analog is SD.
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Old 01-01-2013, 07:34 AM   #18
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Since the TiVo HD can't use an external tuner for HD, this statement is nonsensical.
I'm sure he was referring to either a TV's internal tuner, or a outboard ATSC or QAM tuner. Apparently, you don't understand his statement. He's not talking about running a external tuner through a TiVo, just a A/B PQ comparison between two sources with the same material (station) using different inputs of his TV or monitor.
Quote:
If he was comparing HD channels (internal tuner) to SD (external), he's out of his mind.
He made no mention about SD.
Quote:
And if he meant to compare the TiVo HD's internal tuner to the tuner of some other device (not connected to the TiVo), then he's just a terrible writer.
Why?? Is it because you disagree with his observations, didn't understand what he stated?
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Old 01-01-2013, 07:34 AM   #19
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SD is not same as analog
SD is NTSC. Analog is SD. SD can be analog or digital.
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Old 01-01-2013, 01:11 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
I'm sure he was referring to either a TV's internal tuner, or a outboard ATSC or QAM tuner.
I'm glad you're sure. What I see is that he failed to communicate exactly what he meant. I can make inferences, but they're only that. And that's why he's a terrible writer. What I (and you) have inferred that he meant, does not correspond to what he actually said. He's using his terms incorrectly, in an illogical, confusing way.
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Old 01-02-2013, 06:56 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
This is a old review for a older product, but I would like to know how you guys feel about these comments from this review;
Never experienced any of these. Why are you choosing to fixate on this one particular review? Always consider the source and corroborate.

In this particular case, the pros and cons section is a section where anyone can add a pro or con. Note that the site itself is named ProductWiki. Wikis tend to come with a huge caveat given their nature.

Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
What does he mean "HD video from certain broadcasters"? And "HD picture quality through internal tuner is much lower".
No telling. There's no way to know who made that comment and you'd have to ask that person. We have no idea how the person made the assessment, what equipment was used, how the equipment was connected or how the picture quality was compared. It's certainly possible that the external tuner used did have better picture quality. It's also possible that the person arbitrarily decided that the external tuner was better for some reason or for some preference that others might not share with that person. Some people like enhanced sharpness, for example while others don't care for it. That's just one example and there are a number of factors that can affect image quality. There are any number of other reasons why this conclusion could have been incorrectly reached. It's anyone's guess with this review and there's no way that I know of to verify or really to dig into it. I'd mark this review as dubious and wouldn't even seriously factor it in to my decision making but you're certainly welcome to use it if you think it's relevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
I'm sure he was referring to either a TV's internal tuner, or a outboard ATSC or QAM tuner.
If you're sure of these things then I'm not sure why you're asking us. Use whatever method you used to verify the testing process that the commenter used.

Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
I have to assume he made some comparison between this and another 'tuner' to make this statement.
I wouldn't recommend assuming anything -- especially when evaluating a review like this.

Last edited by takeshi : 01-02-2013 at 07:15 AM.
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:17 AM   #22
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I'm not "fixating" on anything other than the fact there were comments I haven't seen before. I could of easily missed something, somewhere reading other reviews. Or something that wasn't apparent with the reviewer. Not everyone uses every facet of a product. Some have specif needs or issues that won't come up with others.
I prefer to cover all known issues first as much as possible. It's impossible to think of everything.

Ironically, I also came across this review in Amazon.;
http://www.amazon.com/review/R1CQDDJ...wasThisHelpful

Specifically this;
Quote:
HD Picture quality is also far superior with Samsung HD digital tuner than TiVo tuner.
Yes, I know it's an Amazon review, but this guy is surely above the average 5 star review level just because the person owns the product.
Another example of something that I haven't read;
Quote:
10. Toslink cable and audio problems: Dolby digital and surround sound does not work through optical audio toslink cable. This problem started after one of their software updates.
Update February 20, 2008: Video quality of OTA channels is has also improved by changing Video format settings to "native" format.
Update July 2010: When I called TiVo about issue #10, they told me that they could do nothing about the issue, it probably was a hardware issue,
Comments; especially about the optical output being only 2 channel PCM? Is this true?
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:52 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
Groolelor; Facebook? What's that?
Yes for the most part to the question, as long as it isn't a novel. Why do you ask, is there a book on TiVo reviews?
He's practicing up to be a spammer, ignore him.
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:40 AM   #24
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I'm not sure about the Toslink reference just above. I have my TiVoHD connected to my receiver via Toslink and it shows DD 5.1 on the display and seems to output 5.1 through the speakers. I would think that others would have chimed in if this indeed were the case.
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:47 AM   #25
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I'm pretty sure they would print the "Dolby Digital" logo on the front of the TiVo if it didn't work.
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:57 AM   #26
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If it worked just over HDMI, the logo would still be correct. Right?

How about the other quote regarding PQ and the statement about "native"? Is that something about pixel mapping to a flat panel (LCD or Plasma) or something else?
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:22 AM   #27
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Native is when you tell the TiVo to output at the resolution of whatever the program is. So a 720p broadcast on ABC would be output at 720p, and a 1080i broadcast on NBC would be output at 1080i. Your TV will switch to that resolution as needed, but many TV sets are slow to change, so it can get annoying pretty fast. I have all of my boxes set to output at one resolution so I don't have to wait for the TV to switch. I can't see any difference on my hardware, but others disagree. That's why you have a choice.
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:31 AM   #28
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Understood, thanks.
Both of these examples seems to be lack of technical understanding.
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:35 AM   #29
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Specifically this;

Quote:


HD Picture quality is also far superior with Samsung HD digital tuner than TiVo tuner.

Just cut the cable cord and went total OTA.

When changing inputs on my Samsung TV, the OTA straight antenna hook up has a great picture. When I switch input to HDMI (through Tivo) on the same station, the picture becomes almost washed out, high contrast.

Was wondering if there is some type of fix for this. Have not had any of the other problems mentioned.
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Old 01-02-2013, 11:07 AM   #30
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Some TV sets have picture controls for each input, so if you lower contrast, brightness, etc. it only has an effect on that input. Maybe the HDMI input has different picture settings than the tuner input?
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