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Old 10-21-2012, 04:02 PM   #1
kswartz
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Can TiVo stream over wired point-to-point connection?

Theoretical question: is it possible to hook up a computer to TiVo directly via a wired connection (that is -- without a router in between) and stream programs between the two? I've set up wired and wireless connections before, but only with a router broadcasting on the network.

I came up with the possibly-genius idea of hooking up a Raspberry Pi with an external drive to allow wired transfers without having to run 200 feet of cable all over my house.

Thanks in advance,
Keith
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Old 10-22-2012, 10:50 AM   #2
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You question is backwards. In essence, there is never a router between the TiVo and any other element on your LAN. The only pseudo-exception is if a wireless segment is involved, in which case the router is acting as a bridge. With some exceptions, the TiVo is going to have to be on the same subnet as any device communicating with the TiVo, and that means the packets cannot be routed. The preferred topology is to have a switch (or switch network) between all the devices on the LAN, with any routers providing access only to devices not on the LAN.

As long as both devices have static IP addresses with compatible subnet masks, there is nothing preventing two devices from being hard-wired together, but a switch between them is definitely preferable.
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Old 10-31-2012, 11:05 PM   #3
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You question is backwards. In essence, there is never a router between the TiVo and any other element on your LAN. The only pseudo-exception is if a wireless segment is involved, in which case the router is acting as a bridge. With some exceptions, the TiVo is going to have to be on the same subnet as any device communicating with the TiVo, and that means the packets cannot be routed. The preferred topology is to have a switch (or switch network) between all the devices on the LAN, with any routers providing access only to devices not on the LAN.

As long as both devices have static IP addresses with compatible subnet masks, there is nothing preventing two devices from being hard-wired together, but a switch between them is definitely preferable.
Wouldn't a crossover cable be necessary when going from TiVo Ethernet jack to computer Ethernet jack?
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Old 11-01-2012, 12:43 AM   #4
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No, the TiVo and almost all consumer Ethernet adapters these days are Auto MDI / MDIX. All that is necessary if for one of the two devices to be Auto MDI / MDIX, and they can talk. Many Entreprise class devices are not auto-anything, but most consumer devices are.
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Old 12-15-2012, 10:37 PM   #5
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Interesting. So given an Auto-MDI device and cable hooked up directly to that machine running TiVo Desktop or pytivo, I should be able to stream straight from there. Definitely worth trying.

FWIW, though, in the last couple of weeks, I've discovered that the transfer speeds on a wired connection are pitiful on the TiVo HD -- I was never seeing more than 14 Mbps, on a Gbps wired connection with no other traffic. The Premiere definitely did better, hitting around 40 Mbps, which is sufficiently fast enough for pretty much any kind of video.

Thanks for the details!

Keith
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Old 12-15-2012, 10:41 PM   #6
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I should point out, though, that the TiVo support web site says that you can copy programs directly from one TiVo to the other via a wired cable, but it has to be a crossover cable. The TiVo Premiere wasn't listed on there, but TiVo HD was, so it may be that only the newer models are Auto-MDI.
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Old 12-16-2012, 04:52 PM   #7
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Interesting. So given an Auto-MDI device and cable hooked up directly to that machine running TiVo Desktop or pytivo, I should be able to stream straight from there. Definitely worth trying.

FWIW, though, in the last couple of weeks, I've discovered that the transfer speeds on a wired connection are pitiful on the TiVo HD -- I was never seeing more than 14 Mbps, on a Gbps wired connection with no other traffic. The Premiere definitely did better, hitting around 40 Mbps, which is sufficiently fast enough for pretty much any kind of video.

Thanks for the details!

Keith
The TiVo HD was always limited by the chip. The Premiere has a much more powerful chip which is why transfers are faster. Many of us bought the Premiere initially just for the faster transfers.
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:19 AM   #8
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I should point out, though, that the TiVo support web site says that you can copy programs directly from one TiVo to the other via a wired cable, but it has to be a crossover cable. The TiVo Premiere wasn't listed on there, but TiVo HD was, so it may be that only the newer models are Auto-MDI.
Well, I cannot absolutely guarantee it at the moment, but I would be surprised. The only way to tell for certain is to connect two THDs together with a straight cable and see if it works or not. It's pretty unusual to see any consumer product manufactured after about 2005 to be MDI only. I certainly have connected a PC and a THD directly during testing, but it is possible it was the PC doing the MDIX negotiation.
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:32 AM   #9
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FWIW, though, in the last couple of weeks, I've discovered that the transfer speeds on a wired connection are pitiful on the TiVo HD -- I was never seeing more than 14 Mbps, on a Gbps wired connection with no other traffic. The Premiere definitely did better, hitting around 40 Mbps, which is sufficiently fast enough for pretty much any kind of video.
It depends on a number of factors. The slowest transfer is going to be 720p material transferred from the TiVo to a PC using TTG. On a modified THD, once can get much, much faster transfers to the PC. Transfers back to the THD from a PC are faster than the other direction, and 1080i h.264/MP4 pushes are quite fast. Indeed, both 720p and 1080i h.264 pushes are about 4 times faster than their respective MPEG-II trasnfers. MRV (TiVo - TiVo) transfers are considerably faster than TiVo - PC or MPEG-II PC-TiVo transfers, but not as fast as h.264 pushes.

Note changing both tuners to channels you do not receive will speed up the transfers significantly. You should be able to get close to 17 Mbps MPEG-II transfers if both tuners are idle.
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Old 12-27-2012, 06:08 PM   #10
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Premiere units aren't just faster because of the chip. They also support the new TS format .tivo files which transfer about 2x faster even on the Premiere hardware compared to the old PS format. (Premiere units have the option to do either) There was a sort of hack on the S3/HD units that could get them to download in a TS format and it was much faster. However the files were encrypted weirdly, and are not the same as the TS files downloaded from a Premiere, so there is no way to actually play or decrypt them.

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Old 12-27-2012, 07:23 PM   #11
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Was the OP's question whether there was additional, special stream/copy capabilities if a Tivo and PC are connected directly via 100T without using a 100T switch? I wasn't aware there was any difference whether you used a switch or wired directly.
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:58 AM   #12
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There was a sort of hack on the S3/HD units that could get them to download in a TS format and it was much faster. However the files were encrypted weirdly, and are not the same as the TS files downloaded from a Premiere, so there is no way to actually play or decrypt them.
Are you talking about tserver / TyTool and MFS_FTP, which transfer in ty or ty+ format? If so, then that is incorrect. First of all tserver and MFS_FTP transfer more than 3 times faster than TTG. Secondly, the s3tots utility does a fine job of converting ty files to standard MPEG-II TS files that can be played by your average video player or edited by VideoRedo. The only reason I no longer ordinarily use TyTool to transfer videos is kmttg is so very much more convenient. I still keep tserver running on my S3 TiVos, however, because sometimes TTG fails on a particular show, and when it does, one can almost always get the show to transfer successfully using tserver.

Now that said, the Premiere does do PS transfers nearly as fast as tserver and TS transfers somewhat faster than tserver, when it can transfer at all, that is. Nonetheless, as I mentioned, I am fine with the TTG transfer speeds of the S3, given kmttg's convenience. I don;t sit around waiting for transfers to complete, so I'm not really concerned about transfer speed, as long as it is within reason.

If you mean something other than tserver or MFS_FTP, then I am unaware of what you speak. Please elucidate.
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:10 AM   #13
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Was the OP's question whether there was additional, special stream/copy capabilities if a Tivo and PC are connected directly via 100T without using a 100T switch? I wasn't aware there was any difference whether you used a switch or wired directly.
There isn't any significant one. The additional latency of a switch (typically less than 1ms) is not significant at 100 Mbps. The maximum througput of a single TCP connection with a 1ms round-trip latency and a 16K TCP Rx buffer is 131 Mbps. Double that if the host's TCP Rx buffer is 32K.

The round trip latency between my main server and my backup server with a single 1G switch between them is around 0.17 milliseconds, and I have gotten transfers upwards of 900 Mbps between them.
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:14 PM   #14
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Are you talking about tserver / TyTool and MFS_FTP, which transfer in ty or ty+ format?
No. There is a trick where you can add a parameter to the end of the download URL and it will download in TS format. I think it was an early attempt at TS before they settled on the format for the NZ/AUS TiVos. I've looked at them in a hex editor and they have the standard 188byte TS format, but the data is encrypted differently then current TS files so they can't be played with the TiVo DS filter or decrypted with tivodecode.

Edit: here is the thread about it...
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...=418784&page=2

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Old 12-29-2012, 12:29 AM   #15
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Ah! OK. 'Sorry.
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