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Old 12-22-2012, 10:42 AM   #1
tvmaster2
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shrotcomings of a Premiere compared to a Tivo HD?

from what I've been able to read here, the only negative about upgrading to a Premiere from a Tivo HD is that the antenna reception on the Premiere's isn't quite as good...

Is that completely true, or does the choice of antenna matter somewhat?

any other things that would make upgrading a bad move?
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Old 12-22-2012, 04:43 PM   #2
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If I recall correctly, if you keep the Premiere in the SD menus you can't access the unified TiVo Search that the TiVo HD's beta'd. (It's only accessible in the HD menus).

They rewrote the software and it tweaked how wishlist results get diplayed; instead of collapsing all entries for a given episode or movie into one listing multiple airings show up in the main search results (without having to drill down into 'upcoming episodes')

And a recent software update removed the 'Kids Zone' feature (which I never used)
You might want to poke around and read some of the threads about issues/complaints people have been having with the Premieres.

Despite all that, I still prefer my Elite/Premier XL4 to my previous TiVo HD. (And not entirely because of the extra pair of tuners)
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Old 12-22-2012, 07:14 PM   #3
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from what I've been able to read here, the only negative about upgrading to a Premiere from a Tivo HD is that the antenna reception on the Premiere's isn't quite as good...

Is that completely true, or does the choice of antenna matter somewhat?

any other things that would make upgrading a bad move?
I believe that both the series 3 and the premiere are better with ota than the hd. some confusion may be attributed to the fact that the signal strenth meters on the premiere may display a smaller number for a signal of equal or better strength than on the S3 or HD
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Old 12-23-2012, 12:09 AM   #4
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I believe that both the series 3 and the premiere are better with ota than the hd. some confusion may be attributed to the fact that the signal strenth meters on the premiere may display a smaller number for a signal of equal or better strength than on the S3 or HD
that's interesting. I guess the real-world test is how well the signal is pulled in, visually.
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Old 12-25-2012, 03:15 AM   #5
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Not here and a lot of posters would agree: Series 3 do pull in more channels with stability compared to the Premier. I still have my Premieres that can't display a few channels, yet my S3's have no problems with the same channels.

I have to say that lately, the Premiers have been responding faster, but still lag compared to the S3 units I have. But it seems to have gotten better for S4 lately.
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Old 12-25-2012, 03:24 AM   #6
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from what I've been able to read here, the only negative about upgrading to a Premiere from a Tivo HD is that the antenna reception on the Premiere's isn't quite as good...

Is that completely true, or does the choice of antenna matter somewhat?

any other things that would make upgrading a bad move?
OTA reception for S3 is better than Premiere or Premier XL.

For me, the one true upgrade is that one can stream from S4 to S4 units, but not S4 to legacy units such as S3 boxes. However, if one has an Ethernet home network, the transfer of even HD content between S3 units is pretty fast, and if you watch during the transfer, the transfer completes before you can catch up to it even skipping commercials.

The S4 boxes do have access to HuluPlus, AOL (can't remember the service name, but it's a WEAK Roku like service), but, frankly, Roku provides a far more superior experience with a lot more content one can access than what the S4 offers, so I just don't consider S4 as my streaming box.

That really leaves the S4 with very few substantial "upgrades" unless you're talking about the 4 tuner models (for MSO use only), then that is a HUGE upgrade and can even save money on monthly fees as a single 4 tuner box can do the job of two S4's if one is concerned with greater number of tuner options.

You can't really go wrong with either series, but if OTA is going to be a concern, then I would stick with an S3.
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:13 AM   #7
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The list of inferior features of the Premiere line is rather long, I'm afraid. On the plus side, the Premieres are faster, and it is nice they can display 1080p24 content. For me, there is nothing else the Premieres have which the S3 platform does not that is of any interest at all. Some people are very excited about 4 tuners or the upcoming TiVo Mini, but I fail to be in the least interested. The HDUI is not in my estimation anything like superior to the SDUI.

On the down side:

1. TiVo inexplicably gutted the recording capability of the Premiere line by destroying one of the TiVos most powerful and important features, the deceptively named "Search by Title". In the S4 line, it really is an untitled title search, which is all but completely useless. On the S3, it was an optionally filtered index search, which made it one of the three most powerful features of the TiVo. For this reason alone, I must recommend against anyone purchasing any of the Premiere line.

2. The metadata display in the Now Playing List (My shows) on the Premiere is badly limited. The metadata display on the S3 was far more limited than it should be, but they really hacked the information display on the Premiere all to pieces. All the Premiere displays is title, description, and disk usage. Again, inexplicably, they removed movie year, content rating, star rating, actors, directors, writers, debug info, etc.

3. The Premiere cannot be hacked. This badly limits the number and scope of 3rd party applications, some of them among the very most important ones in my estimation, that can be used with the unit. It also badly limits the users ability to interact with and manage the unit. Most importantly for some people it means TiVo To Go and Multi-Room Viewing are badly broken if one's CATV provider copy protects its channels. Time Warner and Brighthouse, for example, copy protect every channel they legally can. If the user has all Premiere units, they can employ Multi-Room Streaming, instead of MRV, but that doesn't help TTG. For myself, I am almost completely uninterested in MRV / MRS, but TTG is absolutely required, as are capabilities like TiVo Web Plus, TyTool, etc, none of which are available on an unmodified TiVo.

The bottom line is I am exceedingly pleased with my purchased of two original Series III TiVos and one TiVo HD. They rank right up there with the best purchases I have ever made. My CATV company is providing me a Premiere free of additional charges along with my CATV service. If I had purchased the Premiere, I would have considered it money very badly spent, indeed.
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:28 AM   #8
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For me, the one true upgrade is that one can stream from S4 to S4 units, but not S4 to legacy units such as S3 boxes.
How is that an upgrade? Overall, it is a downgrade. 'Not that I am in the least interested in streaming.

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That really leaves the S4 with very few substantial "upgrades" unless you're talking about the 4 tuner models (for MSO use only), then that is a HUGE upgrade
No, it isn't. It is barely an upgrade at all, and indeed, given a 4 tuner model is more expensive, from one perspective it is a modest downgrade. I very rarely find any genuine need for more than two tuners, so the additional expense is just a waste of money.

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and can even save money on monthly fees as a single 4 tuner box can do the job of two S4's if one is concerned with greater number of tuner options.
No, it can't, which is part of the point. You mentioned MRV / MRS. That capability requires that there be multiple TiVos. Given the fact, one or more 4 tuner units are not required to have 4 or more tuners. Only if the user has only a single DVR is 4 tuners in one box a requirement for having more than 2 tuners available. Since I do have more than 1 DVR, the question is moot for me, but I certainly could live very well with only 2 tuners in the house, if I had to.

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You can't really go wrong with either series, but if OTA is going to be a concern, then I would stick with an S3.
Not true. In my opinion, buying a Premiere is definitely going badly wrong. It may be acceptable for some people with rather limited uses for the DVR, but it definitely does not meet my needs, by a long shot.
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Old 12-26-2012, 12:14 PM   #9
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2. The metadata display in the Now Playing List (My shows) on the Premiere is badly limited. The metadata display on the S3 was far more limited than it should be, but they really hacked the information display on the Premiere all to pieces. All the Premiere displays is title, description, and disk usage. Again, inexplicably, they removed movie year, content rating, star rating, actors, directors, writers, debug info, etc.
I'm not sure what you mean here. In the description for a show on a Premiere, the movie year, star rating, and actors are displayed on the main info screen as shown below. If you want writers, directors, producers, categories, rating, and disk usage, they are available by pressing info.


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Old 12-27-2012, 06:00 PM   #10
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I'm not sure what you mean here. In the description for a show on a Premiere, the movie year, star rating, and actors are displayed on the main info screen as shown below. If you want writers, directors, producers, categories, rating, and disk usage, they are available by pressing info.
For programs recored on that TiVo and still residing on that TiVo, yes. I don't have a functional capture card on any of my S3 TiVos at the moment, so I can't show you a display, but on an S3, a great deal more data is shown from a metafile on a server, plus information from the server itself. For example, with debug turned on, the file type, compatibility, pixel width and height, and more reported by ffmpeg are displayed. Even with the S3, once transferred, much of that data is discarded, but with the Premiere, especially on a push, it brings over almost nothing.
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Old 12-27-2012, 07:25 PM   #11
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Who cares? The 7 people who push files to a TiVo from a computer?

I thought this was about shortcomings of a Premiere, not shortcomings of a hack.
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Old 12-27-2012, 10:46 PM   #12
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No, it isn't. It is barely an upgrade at all, and indeed, given a 4 tuner model is more expensive, from one perspective it is a modest downgrade. I very rarely find any genuine need for more than two tuners, so the additional expense is just a waste of money.
4 tuners is a great addition. Almost every day I have 3 or 4 shows recording simultaneously. And once the Mini arrives, it will be imperative to have more than 2 tuners, because the Mini will require a dedicated tuner from the TiVo box
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:50 AM   #13
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Who cares? The 7 people who push files to a TiVo from a computer?

I thought this was about shortcomings of a Premiere, not shortcomings of a hack.
true
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Old 12-28-2012, 03:08 AM   #14
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Who cares?
Anyone who is having a problem and needs to troubleshoot it. Anyone who needs the information. Anyone who wants the information. Among other things, it tells the user whether the program can transfer natively or must be transcoded. It can pinpoint problems with incorrect or corrupted audio, improper aspect ratios, etc. It also profers any other information compatibly embedded in the metafile, whatever it may be.

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The 7 people who push files to a TiVo from a computer?
1. This does not affect pushing in any form. It affects all network transfers to the TiVo initiated by the TiVo, including MRV.

2. Many hundreds of people, probably many thousands, take advantage of the TiVo's inbound transfer capabilities. Just because you have not bothered to investigate the limitations and abilities of the hardware you have purchased vs. other hardware does not mean everyone has been so lax. There are also a great many more than 7 people who have discovered the benefits of pushing, although once again, this issue does not impact pushing at all.

3. Just because you like an inexplicably crippled piece of hardware does not mean others do not have higher standards, especially since there is a better alternative previously existing.

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I thought this was about shortcomings of a Premiere, not shortcomings of a hack.
1. This has nothing to do with any hack. It impacts every utility that transfers programs to the TiVo, including other TiVos (MRV), TiVoDeskTop, and of course Galleon and pyTiVo. It certainly has nothing to do with any modifications to any TiVo by a user (which is what a hack is).

2. Even if it did have to do with some sort of hack (it doesn't), then it would not have been the hack with the shortcomings. It is the Premiere and only the Premiere that lacks the capability. The S3s, right out of the box, have it. Indeed, when the Premiere was first introduced, it's capabilities in this respect were greater. TiVo has removed more and more of these abilities with later releases of the software.

The bottom line here is the information is relevant and important in certain circumstances and under various reasonable conditions. That the ability to retrieve it has been removed from the platform is a failure. How significant the failure may be is for the individual user to judge, but what the user may casually deem superfluous may suddenly become highly significant when things quit working properly. There have been many times when that information has become critical for me in diagnosing a problem.

Last edited by lrhorer : 12-28-2012 at 03:35 AM.
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Old 12-28-2012, 03:29 AM   #15
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4 tuners is a great addition. Almost every day I have 3 or 4 shows recording simultaneously.
That is not entirely to the point. First of all, with 8 tuners (4 TiVos) in the house, there are plenty of times more than 2 of them are recording. Again, one cannot speak of MRV / MRS and in the same breath complain of having fewer than 4 tuners. The ability to use MRV or MRS absolutely guarantees 4 or more tuners (unless we are talking about single tuner S2s). Secondly, the fact 3 or 4 tuners are in use is not the same as saying they have to be. I run across 3-way conflicts fairly frequently, especially with padding enabled, but it is quite a rare event that I need to go to another TiVo to resolve the issue. Whenever I run up against 3 simultaneous programs, the odds are very high at least one of them will be broadcast again within a few days. Only in the rare case where none of the three events are to be broadcast again in the near future do I switch over to another TiVo and record the odd show there. It happens maybe once every six months or so.

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And once the Mini arrives, it will be imperative to have more than 2 tuners, because the Mini will require a dedicated tuner from the TiVo box
No, it isn't imperative, since if the reports are accurate, I would never in a hundred years consider purchasing such a device in the first place. Even if I did, there would be no reason to allocate a tuner to it.

By all accounts, the Mini:

1. Will be essentially useless when the main TiVo fails.
2. Will only work with a Tivo. That locks one into a particular manufacturer, and that is unacceptable.
3. Will become simultaneously obsolete whenever the main TiVo becomes obsolete.
4. Represents far too frail a solution for multiple room recording and viewing.

Last edited by lrhorer : 12-28-2012 at 03:59 AM.
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Old 12-28-2012, 04:33 AM   #16
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There have been many times when that information has become critical for me in diagnosing a problem.
If you spent less time breaking others' posts into chunks that you can analyze and dispute for no other reason than to have a dispute, you wouldn't be so worried about spending less time diagnosing problems that you created.
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:07 AM   #17
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If you spent less time breaking others' posts into chunks that you can analyze and dispute for no other reason than to have a dispute, you wouldn't be so worried about spending less time diagnosing problems that you created.
Bazinga!
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:49 PM   #18
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This does not affect pushing in any form. It affects all network transfers to the TiVo initiated by the TiVo, including MRV.
But with Premiere units the need for MRV is significantly reduced. With the ability to stream shows between TiVos, and remote delete them when you're done, there isn't really a reason to transfer shows between TiVos. Plus with the proliferation of copy protection transferring recordings is becoming a non-option for a lot of people.

You must realize that your use case for TiVo, and your specific grievances, are pretty unique and don't apply to most casual users. Most people who use a TiVo for it's primary intention, i.e. a DVR, will find the Premiere a better option then the S3/HD. The search features in the HDUI are much better then anything in the old SDUI and the new To Do List is a significant improvement. Add in the ability to record 4 channels and stream between multiple units and, for most people, the Premiere becomes a much more compelling option.

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Old 12-29-2012, 02:56 AM   #19
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I'd go with a Tivo HD because it's cheaper than a premiere and you don't have to commit to a one year subscription. Or even a lifetime S2 if you have an old tube TV or a small screen.
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Old 12-29-2012, 11:09 AM   #20
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from what I've been able to read here, the only negative about upgrading to a Premiere from a Tivo HD is that the antenna reception on the Premiere's isn't quite as good...

Is that completely true, or does the choice of antenna matter somewhat?

any other things that would make upgrading a bad move?

My experience is that OTA reception is better on my Premiere Elite than on the Tivo HD that it replaced. Others have reported worse OTA reception - I'm not sure if it is unit to unit variation or if it depends upon your signal situation. I am very close to the HD antennas, with hills in between.
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Old 12-31-2012, 07:18 AM   #21
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I'd go with a Tivo HD because it's cheaper than a premiere and you don't have to commit to a one year subscription.
What does the model difference have to do with the subscription? What, they are forcing you to buy a one year sub. with a Premiere?
Quote:
I'm not sure if it is unit to unit variation or if it depends upon your signal situation. I am very close to the HD antennas, with hills in between.
Isn't there some issue with signal overload and firmware modifying the receive ability to solve the problem?
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Old 12-31-2012, 07:34 AM   #22
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If you spent less time breaking others' posts into chunks
It's easier to correct multiple items of faulty or misguided text if you break it down into the pieces and respond appropriately to each.

I thought he was being courteous, both to readers down the line and to you.
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Old 12-31-2012, 07:41 AM   #23
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:32 AM   #24
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What does the model difference have to do with the subscription? What, they are forcing you to buy a one year sub. with a Premiere?
Yes, because the hardware is subsidized, TiVo forces you into a 1 year contract with new models currently being manufactured in order to recoup some of the costs.
Note: you can buy the hardware direct from TiVo at full price and not have to do the 1yr commitment.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:55 AM   #25
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you can buy the hardware direct from TiVo at full price and not have to do the 1yr commitment.
That's the deal with these $100 & $150 Premiers being advertised?

Another version of the 'bate & switch'.
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Old 12-31-2012, 12:25 PM   #26
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Another version of the 'bate & switch'.
I take it you don't approve?

You must hate cell phone manufacturers also. Do you really think an iPhone only costs $200?
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Old 12-31-2012, 01:10 PM   #27
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My experience is that OTA reception is better on my Premiere Elite than on the Tivo HD that it replaced. Others have reported worse OTA reception - I'm not sure if it is unit to unit variation or if it depends upon your signal situation. I am very close to the HD antennas, with hills in between.
So where does one get the magic Premiere Elite/XL with the OTA tuner? They don't have them Or just a typo and you meant Premiere?
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Old 01-01-2013, 07:19 AM   #28
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I take it you don't approve?
You must hate cell phone manufacturers also. Do you really think an iPhone only costs $200?
It's their entire business model of selling the product at or below cost and locking you into a overpriced subscription,
Not the manufactures, just the entire misused, overused concept,
No, but not material.
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