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Old 11-04-2012, 02:22 PM   #1
kirbylile
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TiVo wish: Conflicts resolved using other Multi-Room TiVo's

Here's a wish for my TiVo's: when a conflict occurs to record too many programs at once, my TiVo would assign another TiVo in my house to record it. Kind of like when you use your savings account to cover your checking account in case of an overdraft.
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Old 11-04-2012, 02:39 PM   #2
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+1 and an integrated NPL. However, they seem to think their whole home DVR precludes the need for this functionality.
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Old 11-04-2012, 06:59 PM   #3
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I would like this feature too... have yearned for it for years now. Just got my TP4 up and running yesterday and the 4 tuners go a long way towards solving the conflicts in our house during primetime... but not completely. We currently have 3 Premieres with a 4th joining the house next month. This feature would be a fabulous addition to our "whole house" DVR setup.

My current work around is to keep all network shows sorted to the top of my season pass manager and cable shows listed after, that way shows that typically only air one time get priority and TiVo schedules my cable shows at other non-primetime hours as needed. I have over 100 season passes so it's imperative to have some sort of conflict resolution I don't have to babysit all the time.
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Old 11-05-2012, 06:34 AM   #4
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If they would integrate the season pass manager and NPL across Tivos in the home, I would seriously consider placing a Tivo Premiere at each set in the home and forego the mini. It would be worth the subscription cost.

The new screens with conflict resolution are so close as is the NPL, they 'just' need to combine the info into single lists. Big step forward in whole home media.
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Old 11-05-2012, 07:58 AM   #5
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They would need to have an option to only allow a certain number of tuners from each box for conflict resolution. Otherwise you would run into issues with multiple user households if someone wanted to record something on the TiVo in their room but it was being used for conflict resolution. So then the user would stop a recording to record what they want, and then then somebody else in the household would be pissed off.
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Old 11-05-2012, 10:05 AM   #6
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They would need to have an option to only allow a certain number of tuners from each box for conflict resolution. Otherwise you would run into issues with multiple user households if someone wanted to record something on the TiVo in their room but it was being used for conflict resolution. So then the user would stop a recording to record what they want, and then then somebody else in the household would be pissed off.
We are only moments away from all sorts of potential "family" conflicts when the mini/whole home solutions are released. Frankly someone else's potential "family" issues shouldn't prevent the rest of us from getting more advanced recording features.

My 2cents is that TiVo should build conflict resolution in at the same time they release their whole home solutions and it should include the ability to function with Series 3 TiVos. The whole thing should be web based.
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:16 AM   #7
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This has been on everyone's wishlists ever since Tivo began promoting the usage of more than one of their DVR's in the home. It's noted a number of times in the Suggestions forum thread, but it's worth beating the drum on here in the main coffee house forum again.

The world's best DVR platform needs to have this feature.

And given Tivo's push into MSO's and providing this platform, it would be appropriate for them to add it....or simply have one of the MSO's request it....

Remember, we're not considered customers like we used to....we're considered "products" to be herded to the cable companies in order for cable companies to keep and maintain subscribers in the age of "streaming"...It's the cable companies whom Tivo are treating more as their priority customers at this point.

If one can argue that this will continue to manage churn for TiVo's cable co customers, then the feature will get traction....
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:26 AM   #8
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The really sad part is that ReplayTV had this feature 10 years ago.

Tivo basically has no competition in this space and therefore little urge to innovate.
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:37 AM   #9
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Agreed, Did ReplayTV have a patent on this particular feature, which would explain why TiVo never added it at the time.

Given that DirectTV now has the ReplayTV patents, and TiVo has a cross-licensing deal with DirectTV, you would think TiVo could add this feature without fear of being sued....

Something has kept TiVo from adding this, from what should be a relatively easy feature....

Maybe we can ask David Zatz to ask TiVo again about this....he seems to be one of the few bloggers that they will talk to from time to time....
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:57 AM   #10
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This is something that they should have done years ago, but now that they have 4 tuner boxes and the Mini on the way (and possibly a 6 tuner box coming next year) it seems like they are moving away from the multiple TiVo ecosystem to a whole house solution, with one recorder and multiple streaming devices, instead. That being said the protocol they developed for inner TiVo communication is getting more and more powerful with every release, so it's possible they may eventually have enough functionality to provide cooperative scheduling like this for free. Although I wouldn't hold my breath.

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Old 11-05-2012, 01:21 PM   #11
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I would definitely like to see conflicts resolved this way, but I want controls like the new setting option on the Elite. Let me grant permissions on whether a tuner can be used and what TiVos have permission.

For example in my house, the Elite is the main TiVo. The rest are used as overflow and duplicates since we have different viewing schedules. As a result I would only want the Elite to be able to schedule conflicts this way. This could be solved by a priority option like season pass manager where you rank the TiVos to determine which box gets access to the free tuner first.

I definitely look forward to a unified NPL/My Shows. It would make the Stream more efficient and also help when it comes to the Mini.
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Old 11-05-2012, 08:24 PM   #12
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They would need to have an option to only allow a certain number of tuners from each box for conflict resolution. Otherwise you would run into issues with multiple user households if someone wanted to record something on the TiVo in their room but it was being used for conflict resolution. So then the user would stop a recording to record what they want, and then then somebody else in the household would be pissed off.
And what would make that any different than letting someone delete a recording before you watched it. This already occurs on the remote box using the new MRS.
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Old 11-05-2012, 09:42 PM   #13
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The really sad part is that ReplayTV had this feature 10 years ago.

ReplayTV had it *MANUALLY* done. (i.e. there is a conflict, it ASKS you if you want to have the other ReplayTV record the show instead.)

AFAIK, nobody has done what people are really suggesting -- AUTOMATIC cooperative scheduling.

Since networks can be flaky, I think you would still have to have a separate SP list ON EACH TIVO in case the network goes flaky.. But in the normal use, you'd have the Tivos called #1 #2 #3 and so on, and that would be the order used to resolve conflicts.. Push them down to the next one if there's a conflict.

But now we have "so many" (4, and allegedly 6 in a future one) tuners, that I think the time for this ever to be done is long past.
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Old 11-05-2012, 10:32 PM   #14
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And what would make that any different than letting someone delete a recording before you watched it. This already occurs on the remote box using the new MRS.
There would be no need to delete a recording since the TiVo will do it automatically when it needs to. But there would be a need to stop a recording if you wanted to use the tuner.
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Old 11-06-2012, 06:20 AM   #15
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The world's best DVR platform needs to have this feature.
Thanks, but we've already got it. WMC HTPCs with extenders can schedule recordings from any TV in the house with no fear of conflicts. The new Echo extender from Ceton is not only an extender but will also serve as a media player for numerous video formats. I'm currently involved in the Echo beta testing program and this little box has a lot of promise.

Scheduling conflicts was one of the reasons I stopped using multiple DVRs and went with a single box solution. People have been asking Tivo to add this feature for years with no results. I have access to 11 cablecard tuners and six ATSC tuners, five of which can be shared directly with other PCs in the house. Using extenders, I can schedule recordings remotely and play them back on other TVs. I can also access a multitude of media formats on my server and stream them to any TV in the house.
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Old 11-06-2012, 06:26 AM   #16
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HTPC != Tivo. No way, no how, not for J6P.

Something you continually fail to grasp.
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Old 11-06-2012, 07:00 AM   #17
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Thanks, but we've already got it. ...
No you do not - this thread and the post you quoted are talking about conflict resolution between multiple DVRs. You certainly should have enough tuners to not have conflicts but there is no ability for someone with multiple HTPCs to have those HTPCs auto communicate between each other and resolve scheduling conflicts.

I understand why many people want whole home solutions, and a single HTPC with enough tuners can certainly provide a conflict free whole home solution. However there are many of us that would prefer to not have a single failure point and would prefer a whole home solution that uses multiple DVRs (with or without additional extenders) with conflict resolution between the DVRs as our whole home solution.
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Old 11-06-2012, 08:37 AM   #18
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PLEASE! We do not need yet another HTPC vs Tivo argument. If I wanted and HTPC (Been there and done that) I would have one. I do not. I have a Tivo whole home solution that I would like to discuss improving. HTPC is NOT a viable option for our home nor many others.
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Old 11-06-2012, 08:40 AM   #19
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This is something that they should have done years ago, but now that they have 4 tuner boxes and the Mini on the way (and possibly a 6 tuner box coming next year) it seems like they are moving away from the multiple TiVo ecosystem to a whole house solution, with one recorder and multiple streaming devices, instead. That being said the protocol they developed for inner TiVo communication is getting more and more powerful with every release, so it's possible they may eventually have enough functionality to provide cooperative scheduling like this for free. Although I wouldn't hold my breath.

Dan
I would be VERY happy with just an integrated NPL and the ability to send a recording task that has a conflict to another Tivo in the house. IE manually for now. But the integrated NPL really needs to happen before multiple Tivos are really a viable whole home option.
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Old 11-06-2012, 09:22 AM   #20
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PLEASE! We do not need yet another HTPC vs Tivo argument. If I wanted and HTPC (Been there and done that) I would have one. I do not. I have a Tivo whole home solution that I would like to discuss improving. HTPC is NOT a viable option for our home nor many others.
There is no argument there is only one cable/OTA whole home DVR solution that offers full conflict resolution at this moment in time. It is a single HTPC with as many tuners and extenders as needed.

However as you said it is not what many of us want. We want a whole home solution from TiVo. In my opinion that is going to require conflict resolution between TiVo DVRs along with support for extenders (the mini), to fully meet many peoples expectations.
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Old 11-06-2012, 12:57 PM   #21
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I would be VERY happy with just an integrated NPL and the ability to send a recording task that has a conflict to another Tivo in the house. IE manually for now. But the integrated NPL really needs to happen before multiple Tivos are really a viable whole home option.
With two Premiere units you basically have integrated Now Playing lists. You can select any of the other Premieres from the bottom of the main Now Playing list to see it's Now Playing. From there you just pick your show and press play and it will start streaming to the Premiere you're using. I guess integrating them would be cool if you didn't know what you were looking for, but right now it's about as easy as it can get short of complete integration.

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Old 11-06-2012, 03:21 PM   #22
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ReplayTV had it *MANUALLY* done. (i.e. there is a conflict, it ASKS you if you want to have the other ReplayTV record the show instead.)

AFAIK, nobody has done what people are really suggesting -- AUTOMATIC cooperative scheduling.

Since networks can be flaky, I think you would still have to have a separate SP list ON EACH TIVO in case the network goes flaky.. But in the normal use, you'd have the Tivos called #1 #2 #3 and so on, and that would be the order used to resolve conflicts.. Push them down to the next one if there's a conflict.

But now we have "so many" (4, and allegedly 6 in a future one) tuners, that I think the time for this ever to be done is long past.
If it were done right (and we can thank the cable companies that never will be) the show would record on an available tuner in the house and then be automatically transferred to the requesting TiVo then deleted from the source TiVo. Of course now that most people can't use MRV and TiVo is going to a whole house model that model doesn't and can't work for most people.
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Old 11-06-2012, 03:37 PM   #23
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PLEASE! We do not need yet another HTPC vs Tivo argument.
Aw, heck. Why not? What good is the forum if we can't have a good old TiVo vs. HTPC fight every once in a while?
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Old 11-06-2012, 04:19 PM   #24
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Aw, heck. Why not? What good is the forum if we can't have a good old TiVo vs. HTPC fight every once in a while?
"Every once in a while", I could live with. But with mr.unnatural, it's every. freaking. time.
It gets old.
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Old 11-06-2012, 05:22 PM   #25
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The really sad part is that ReplayTV had this feature 10 years ago.

Tivo basically has no competition in this space and therefore little urge to innovate.
sadder still is the hacking community had it on the series 1 tivo's probably just as long....

there is/was a little bit of code that ran at :25 and :55 and looked for a conflict then asked other boxes on the network if they had a free tuner to handle it.

Why tivo can't just implement such things (even if just by backdoor codes) always amazes me.
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Old 11-06-2012, 05:25 PM   #26
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...

AFAIK, nobody has done what people are really suggesting -- AUTOMATIC cooperative scheduling.
...
see above- the hacking community handled it years ago in a very simple manner.
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Old 11-06-2012, 05:30 PM   #27
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If it were done right (and we can thank the cable companies that never will be) the show would record on an available tuner in the house and then be automatically transferred to the requesting TiVo then deleted from the source TiVo. Of course now that most people can't use MRV and TiVo is going to a whole house model that model doesn't and can't work for most people.
not true (I think this is not the 300th time I've posted this)- tivo is permitted (and always has been if i recall) to MOVE anything they want by the cable rules. They just have to write the code so that only one copy (the new or the old) is playable at any one time.
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Old 11-06-2012, 05:44 PM   #28
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My current work around is to keep all network shows sorted to the top of my season pass manager and cable shows listed after, that way shows that typically only air one time get priority and TiVo schedules my cable shows at other non-primetime hours as needed. I have over 100 season passes so it's imperative to have some sort of conflict resolution I don't have to babysit all the time.
This is my solution as well, I find it works really well. I wish TiVo had a auto sort Season Pass feature where you could group NBC, FOX, CBS, & CW to always be before cable networks and have HBO, SHO, STARZ.

It would be really cool if the system could see a conflict and know it will be available on hulu the next day and when you click on the show in My Shows it just brings you to hulu.
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Old 11-06-2012, 06:03 PM   #29
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"Every once in a while", I could live with. But with mr.unnatural, it's every. freaking. time.
It gets old.
'Point well taken.

Mea culpa, too, I suppose.
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Old 11-06-2012, 07:36 PM   #30
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There would be no need to delete a recording since the TiVo will do it automatically when it needs to. But there would be a need to stop a recording if you wanted to use the tuner.
I think you totally missed the point. It's basically the same argument. Either way someone is going to not record something because someone grabbed a tuner or you're going to delete a recording when someone does not want it deleted from a particular box.
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