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Old 10-12-2012, 08:00 AM   #1
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I'm still enjoying the show and also am enjoying that we keep getting tossed small pieces that are obviously parts of the conspiracy. Good to see that the stealth device isn't a totally reliable "God mode".

The fight between Chaplin's crew and the Island Thug should get interesting as well. On his schedule.
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Old 10-12-2012, 08:30 AM   #2
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Man, I'm not enjoying it at all...I thought that was just awful. I spent the whole hour saying "What is WRONG with these people?!?"

Given the strong start I'll give it another week or two to see if I see signs of it starting to come together (and signs of anybody acting like a recognizable human being instead of a plot device), but my hopes have dwindled to just about zero.
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Old 10-12-2012, 08:45 AM   #3
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Terrible episode. This show makes so little sense, it's becoming harder to watch each week. Where to begin (I woulda made notes had I known there would be so many "smack the forehead" moments)...

* The tech girl in DC has THE ONLY COPY KNOWN TO MAN of some revolutionary electronic device. Did I mention it's THE ONLY COPY? So just to be safe, let's keep it at home.

* And this device has the ability to suck up 2/3 of the power of a nucalar sub. WOW! Oh, and burn all the control boards too.

* Let's have the crew of the most sophisticated warship known to man go make a drug pickup for a puny island warlord.

Aside: The captive he shot & killed? Remember, we haven't seen the body yet.

* This same warlord rapes a crew member, and kills another, in cold blood. Let's grimace and pout and make some hard faces, and then do nothing about it. Until the right time, of course. (How 'bout now, captain? Could NOW be the right time?)

* The entire DC conspiracy is a joke. Is there anyone in the guv that doesn't know about it?

* I'm not sure what the family scenes of the barkeep have to do with anything?

* If the island warlord can kidnap people when he wants and do whatever he wants to them, why do people keep roaming the island? And the bar? Shouldn't they be cowering on the sub?

* They spent an episode making sure we know how much the XO and his wife adore each other. Neither will turn away from the other, both will remain true, the gov can't get either to crack. But 10 seconds with the French woman, and Mr. XO is already googly eyes for her. (I may have my people confused here; with such poor character development, I get confused who's who. For example, the guy who left the island, was he the French woman's partner? Workmate? Friend?)


My biggest problem is the premise, which is borderline ridiculous, needs really sharp writing to pull it off. And it could be done. But this is nowhere near good enough writing to pull it off.
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Old 10-12-2012, 09:09 AM   #4
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After reading this thread, I can only assume there must be something wrong with me. I like this show. But I also liked the LOST finale, so again I can only assume there must be something wrong with me.
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Old 10-12-2012, 09:15 AM   #5
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But I also liked the LOST finale, so again I can only assume there must be something wrong with me.
Clearly.
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:22 AM   #6
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The first episode was fantastic. The second wasn't quite as good but still solid. The third was terrible. If this is where we're going then they're losing me, no matter how much I respect Andre Braugher and Shawn Ryan.
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Old 10-12-2012, 11:26 AM   #7
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This is becoming more Gilligan's Island than Red October. Has anyone, ever in the history of engineering only made one copy of a schematic?

I'd venture to guess that even da Vinci made copies. And, he didn't even have a dot matrix printer.
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Old 10-12-2012, 11:35 AM   #8
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After reading this thread, I can only assume there must be something wrong with me. I like this show. But I also liked the LOST finale, so again I can only assume there must be something wrong with me.
Nah, it's not you. I loved LOST.

I watched LOST. I loved LOST. And this ain't no LOST.
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Old 10-12-2012, 12:17 PM   #9
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The reason there was only one copy was because she was afraid the government would confiscate the technology and deliberately erased all copies but one.
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Old 10-12-2012, 01:15 PM   #10
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The reason there was only one copy was because she was afraid the government would confiscate the technology and deliberately erased all copies but one.
Makes you think : Which is easier to confiscate? A one and only copy stored at home or multiple copies located in a variety of different places.
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Old 10-12-2012, 01:34 PM   #11
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Multiple copies located in a variety of places would be easier to seize. The government only needs one copy while the woman has to protect every copy in existence.
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Old 10-12-2012, 02:41 PM   #12
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After reading this thread, I can only assume there must be something wrong with me. I like this show. But I also liked the LOST finale, so again I can only assume there must be something wrong with me.
Nothing wrong with you... I also liked the Lost finale and even though I won't go so far as to compare this show with Lost, it's still keeping me very entertained.
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Old 10-12-2012, 03:47 PM   #13
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I am liking it...I actually think its gotten stronger as its gone along. I thought that everything happened too fast in the first episode and was not explained enough to make it plausible but I figured its just the first lets give it some time. I like how they are fleshing out the characters very slowly and revealing little bits of the conspiracy each episode.
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Old 10-12-2012, 05:03 PM   #14
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* This same warlord rapes a crew member, and kills another, in cold blood. Let's grimace and pout and make some hard faces, and then do nothing about it. Until the right time, of course. (How 'bout now, captain? Could NOW be the right time?)
This I had the least problem with. The captain's right - he doesn't have nearly enough combat personnel to fight an insurgency on the island, especially when they have to be extremely vigilant with outside forces trying to make incursions. He can't afford, for instance, to lose the NATO monitoring station, which would be very easy for the warlord to sabotage.

I have no doubt that there will be payback at some point, but at a time and place of the captain's choosing.
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Old 10-12-2012, 05:07 PM   #15
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I have no doubt that there will be payback at some point, but at a time and place of the captain's choosing.
I just wish he had said that....
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Old 10-12-2012, 06:47 PM   #16
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He's kinda a wuss captain, you would figure if he wanted to take on delta / spetnoz so readily, then why not have a group fully armed ready to strike when he was threatened. Having a few guys with pistols is not a threat to anyone of that nature.

I mean get real, tell the guy we are not afraid of you or your crap so piss off and the first car bomb that goes off we are rolling off shore and launching a nuke which you won't be able to run from.
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Old 10-12-2012, 08:02 PM   #17
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He's kinda a wuss captain, you would figure if he wanted to take on delta / spetnoz so readily, then why not have a group fully armed ready to strike when he was threatened. Having a few guys with pistols is not a threat to anyone of that nature.

I mean get real, tell the guy we are not afraid of you or your crap so piss off and the first car bomb that goes off we are rolling off shore and launching a nuke which you won't be able to run from.
See above, or at least consider that for as bad @zz as the Captain could be, well, he can't do it all that easily.

He needs the NATO outpost so he can monitor all of the good guys and bad-good guys that are out there ready to cause him way more trouble than he can deal with.

Sure the warlord is a p-i-t-a, but he's manageable, or at least should be manageable. The big boats with the heavy weapons are not so easily managed if the Captain and his crew can't see 'em.

Something that I'm sure we'll see in the next few episodes is how the crew manages to repair the equipment on the sub. With systems getting overloaded and burning up, they're gonna have to effect repairs or make work-arounds for things in much the same way they're gonna have to make up for the lost crew members, including the one the warlord killed, the ones that were lost in the attack from the U.S. sub, and the ones lost to the Spetznats.

Destroying the island, or the warlords camp, whatever, is a simple solution, but one that comes at far too high a price currently, even if it's just from the launch of a missile. Plus, well, there's that whole problem of if the Captain and crew launch a nuke that actually does target people and/or blows up property, then they have crossed a line that so far they've just threatened to do, but not actually done. So far they have the moral high ground in that they didn't kill anyone (except for the Spetznats) that wasn't trying to kill them first. Self-defense and all that.

In many ways it's all too convenient to have spared the warlords life, along with his crew. Later there'll be some symbiotic relationship between both sides that will help the sub-crew to survive, or help them repair systems, or something similar.


Meanwhile, as a co-worker and I were talking about at work, this has some Star Trek: Voyager vibes to it, but at the same time also has a lot of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine vibe to it, as well as the whole LOST vibe, and Gilligan's Island as well. We viewers obviously want to see the sub in action or see the crew fighting militarily, but the story isn't allowing for that to happen too quickly since there's also the conspiracy theory stuff that has to be unraveled and dealt with.
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Old 10-12-2012, 08:35 PM   #18
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But now the warlord, and all the American sailors, and everybody on the island knows that the warlord is in charge. He has the power of life and death over the Americans, and the Americans are OK with that.

Not a good status quo.

Perhaps a better way to handle it at the initial meeting was when the warlord demanded that the Americans go on a smuggling run in order to save their captured friends, a sniper off in the distance made the warlord's head explode. Then, the captain could ask, "With whom do I negotiate now?"

Surrendering to a cheap little terrorist and putting himself completely under his authority is probably the worst decision he could have made. I honestly think he would have been better off just letting the captives die.
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Old 10-12-2012, 08:48 PM   #19
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Surely the normal citizens of the island--if there are any--hate the war lord too. You'd think they would be happy to have a few navy guys with big guns help get rid of him.

I was confused at the Washington scene. Did the girl's Dad steal the plan? What was he doing? Was he with the guy who works for a senator, or the girl's boyfriend? Or are they the same guy? Need to pay more attention.
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Old 10-12-2012, 09:09 PM   #20
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But now the warlord, and all the American sailors, and everybody on the island knows that the warlord is in charge. He has the power of life and death over the Americans, and the Americans are OK with that.

Not a good status quo.

Perhaps a better way to handle it at the initial meeting was when the warlord demanded that the Americans go on a smuggling run in order to save their captured friends, a sniper off in the distance made the warlord's head explode. Then, the captain could ask, "With whom do I negotiate now?"

Surrendering to a cheap little terrorist and putting himself completely under his authority is probably the worst decision he could have made. I honestly think he would have been better off just letting the captives die.
+1

Would have solved that quickly.

Or the old walk in and ask who is in charge, whom ever answers that they are just shoot them in the head until you get the answer that you are in charge.
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Old 10-12-2012, 09:22 PM   #21
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Surely the normal citizens of the island--if there are any--hate the war lord too. You'd think they would be happy to have a few navy guys with big guns help get rid of him.
Not true... guys like that tend to put money back into poor communities and provide for the 'normal citizens' of areas that corrupt governments tend to ignore. As a result, the locals love them and are not usually very happy when big guns or big government gets rid of them.
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Old 10-12-2012, 11:54 PM   #22
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I've watched plenty of shows where Season 1 is great, Season 2 is so-so, and season 3 is terrible, but to do it in three episodes...
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Old 10-13-2012, 05:21 AM   #23
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I've watched plenty of shows where Season 1 is great, Season 2 is so-so, and season 3 is terrible, but to do it in three episodes...
I agree. SP canceled.
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Old 10-13-2012, 09:10 AM   #24
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Wow, what a disappointing episode, so many things were sooo badly written. On their way under the blockade the super-stealth mode goes down for a few seconds and the battleships "don't notice"? How very lame. And as astrohip said, what was that all about with the barkeep's family? A device to bring in some more drama?

And I loved this exchange:

French NATO lady: Can you do a sonar ping?
XO: Yes, but it's very dangerous.
French NATO lady: I know, but do it anyway.
XO orders a ping.

At least they could put some effort into the writing.
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Old 10-13-2012, 09:28 AM   #25
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But now the warlord, and all the American sailors, and everybody on the island knows that the warlord is in charge. He has the power of life and death over the Americans, and the Americans are OK with that.

Not a good status quo.

Perhaps a better way to handle it at the initial meeting was when the warlord demanded that the Americans go on a smuggling run in order to save their captured friends, a sniper off in the distance made the warlord's head explode. Then, the captain could ask, "With whom do I negotiate now?"

Surrendering to a cheap little terrorist and putting himself completely under his authority is probably the worst decision he could have made. I honestly think he would have been better off just letting the captives die.
Agreed 100%. Marcus is starting to remind me of Colonel Young of Stargate Universe.

Now that I think about it, there are a lot of parallels here:

Marcus -- > Young the flawed leader
COB --> Camile Wray (Ming Na) The hated antagonists
XO --> Lt. Scott capable follower of the leader
Seal guy --> Eli Wallace removed but ultra capable and comes to the rescue
Serrat --> Rush more antagonists
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Old 10-13-2012, 10:38 AM   #26
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Terrible episode. This show makes so little sense, it's becoming harder to watch each week. Where to begin (I woulda made notes had I known there would be so many "smack the forehead" moments)...

* They spent an episode making sure we know how much the XO and his wife adore each other. Neither will turn away from the other, both will remain true, the gov can't get either to crack. But 10 seconds with the French woman, and Mr. XO is already googly eyes for her. (I may have my people confused here; with such poor character development, I get confused who's who. For example, the guy who left the island, was he the French woman's partner? Workmate? Friend?)
That's the example that bugged me the most, I can let a lot of the techie stuff go since it's a fantasy anyway, but the logic of that sub-plot frustrated me. The ONLY COPY logic was ok in the 90's but in this day it's just sloppy writing.

I also give this episode a rating of 3rd of the 3, they need to pick up their game.
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Old 10-13-2012, 11:29 AM   #27
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If that stealth device was developed under government contract, it is government property and she should have turned over the plans to the government.
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Old 10-13-2012, 12:39 PM   #28
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Except for all the missiles and torpedoes and such (which aren't really useful in this regard), I think the sub crew is significantly outgunned by the warlord's crew.

So direct combat probably isn't a viable option.
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Old 10-13-2012, 01:51 PM   #29
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* They spent an episode making sure we know how much the XO and his wife adore each other. Neither will turn away from the other, both will remain true, the gov can't get either to crack. But 10 seconds with the French woman, and Mr. XO is already googly eyes for her. (I may have my people confused here; with such poor character development, I get confused who's who. For example, the guy who left the island, was he the French woman's partner? Workmate? Friend?)
Replying again, but only because I thought the same thing, only a review out there has pointed out that it was SEAL guy not the XO that went to the jungle.

Clearly we're not the only folks confused, and I remembered it from 2 days ago the way you described it, but was wrong
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Old 10-13-2012, 03:25 PM   #30
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Except for all the missiles and torpedoes and such (which aren't really useful in this regard), I think the sub crew is significantly outgunned by the warlord's crew.

So direct combat probably isn't a viable option.
The sub's crew is roughly 150 plus the SEALs. There doesn't seem to be any shortage of small arms and they probably also have Tomahawk missiles that could easily flatten Julian's compound. Julian seems to only have a handful of men. Less than Snow White's seven dwarves.

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If that stealth device was developed under government contract, it is government property and she should have turned over the plans to the government.
I think it really depends on the specifics of the contract. In this case, it seems like Sinclair owns the prototype which was installed on the submarine in some sort of collaborative effort.

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Wow, what a disappointing episode, so many things were sooo badly written. On their way under the blockade the super-stealth mode goes down for a few seconds and the battleships "don't notice"? How very lame.
Detecting submarines isn't that easy even without stealth devices. There are thermoclines and background noise from biologicals, their own props, etc. When the system is on, the submarine shouldn't be totally undetectable nor should it instantly be detected when it's off though it seems to be written that way...

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And I loved this exchange:

French NATO lady: Can you do a sonar ping?
XO: Yes, but it's very dangerous.
French NATO lady: I know, but do it anyway.
XO orders a ping.

At least they could put some effort into the writing.
I don't know how I would rewrite that dialog. I'm guessing the point they're trying to make is that, unlike surface vessels, submarines rarely use active sonar because it can give away their location. Surface vessels are much noisier than submarines so they have less to lose by using active sonar.
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