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Old 09-13-2012, 03:17 PM   #1
PrimeRisk
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Android Support?

Has anyone heard anything about Android device support? Our house has one iPad, but 5 Android Pads and 2 Android phones. I'm not sure I'd buy a Stream without knowing when Android support would be coming. (I know the trades all say that Android support is coming, but the sun will burn out eventually too)
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Old 09-13-2012, 03:21 PM   #2
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I've been looking...nothing definitive. I only heard that it's "coming" as well.
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Old 09-13-2012, 04:00 PM   #3
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According to the system information page the Stream uses encrypted HLS. From what I can tell that's an Apple only technology. I wonder how they plan to make this work on Android?

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Old 09-13-2012, 04:11 PM   #4
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According to the system information page the Stream uses encrypted HLS. From what I can tell that's an Apple only technology. I wonder how they plan to make this work on Android?

Dan
Android has supported HLS since the Honeycomb release.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_Live_Streaming
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Old 09-13-2012, 04:15 PM   #5
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HLS is pretty common.

I know Android has HLS. It was added with 3.2 or so. My Google TV has HLS enabled.
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Old 09-13-2012, 04:17 PM   #6
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Apple has submitted it to IETF as a draft standard. This is actually one thing that they aren't keeping proprietary.
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Old 09-13-2012, 04:30 PM   #7
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I'm not an HLS expert. I just looked it up when I found that page and it seemed to be an Apple technology so I was worried.

I know with TiVo Desktop they kept saying it was coming to Mac, but it never really did because they couldn't setup the same DirectShow type decryption on the Mac that they could on the PC. (it did eventually come, but only as part of a $70 Roxio app)

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Old 09-13-2012, 04:58 PM   #8
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Quote:
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... it seemed to be an Apple technology so I was worried..
Understandable.
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Old 09-14-2012, 10:56 AM   #9
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Thumbs down Not without Android support, I won't.

No Android support? WTH? Only for Apple? Wait and see, then maybe buy one.


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Old 09-14-2012, 10:58 AM   #10
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No Android support? WTH? Only for Apple? Wait and see, then maybe buy one.


"iPhone: Smartphone for Dummies"
It's not all that uncommon for iStuff to come first. It happens.

There's half a billion Android devices out there, so we'll get our app. Hopefully it won't be too long.
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Old 09-14-2012, 12:42 PM   #11
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The Stream is targeted mainly at tablet users. (who wants to watch TV on a tiny 4" screen?) And when it comes to tablets 95% of the market belongs to the iPad, so it makes sense that they would target iOS first.

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Old 09-14-2012, 12:55 PM   #12
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Absolutely. But with the popularity of the Nexus 7 and I'm sure the new Kindle Fires...there's enough there to motivate Android support. If they waste too much time, I'll be disappointed, but we'll see.
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Old 09-14-2012, 01:00 PM   #13
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Yeah but this is a project that was conceived almost a year ago, before the Nexus 7 existed and when the original Kindle Fire was a blip at best. That being said I hear from a reliable source they are working on Android support right now, so I don't think it's going to be more then a couple months, at most, before it's added.

In fact based on my poking around, and reading the iPad hacking thread in the underground, it seems to use JSON and HLS for everything (basically HTML5) so they should be able to add support for almost any device relatively easily.

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Old 09-14-2012, 06:10 PM   #14
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I just tried out the new Kindle Fire HD. The 1280x800 resolution screen looks much better than the original Fire. It would be nice to be able to use it with the Stream.
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Old 09-15-2012, 09:10 AM   #15
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Fact Check

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
The Stream is targeted mainly at tablet users. (who wants to watch TV on a tiny 4" screen?) And when it comes to tablets 95% of the market belongs to the iPad, so it makes sense that they would target iOS first.

Dan
Not quite 95%, how about 68%.

Strategy Analytics reported last week that Apple’s share of the global tablet market ticked up to 68% from 62% in the June quarter.
http://www.bgr.com/2012/08/01/ipad-m...droid-tablets/
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Old 09-15-2012, 09:11 AM   #16
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Not quite 95%, how about 68%.

Strategy Analytics reported last week that Apple’s share of the global tablet market ticked up to 68% from 62% in the June quarter.
http://www.bgr.com/2012/08/01/ipad-m...droid-tablets/
But what is the percentage in the US? Since the Stream is only available in the US.
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Old 09-15-2012, 10:50 AM   #17
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Of course, when it does appear, it will have to deny access to Rooted devices.
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Old 09-15-2012, 01:08 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
I'm not an HLS expert. I just looked it up when I found that page and it seemed to be an Apple technology so I was worried.

I know with TiVo Desktop they kept saying it was coming to Mac, but it never really did because they couldn't setup the same DirectShow type decryption on the Mac that they could on the PC. (it did eventually come, but only as part of a $70 Roxio app)

Dan
The full HLS spec is publicly available and there are a lot of client implementations available. Apple has no interest in dealing with the server side of HLS, so it makes sense for them to do that. Furthermore, one of the large issues that video content providers have is keeping around segments in different formats, so having multiple clients compatible with their container segments (if not the entire spec) is highly desirable to them.

A lot of vendors (Adobe, Microsoft, etc) are not entirely thrilled with HLS because the official spec is fully controlled by Apple, so they have gone off to make a competing standard (MPEG DASH), which is largely the same except for obvious design by committee extensions: "We can't settle on whether to use MPEG2-TS or ISO Base Media File Format for the segments, so lets just make everyone support both! Who cares that no one will use ISO Base Media File Format since it offers no benefits and by using MPEG2-TS we can use the same segments for both HLS and DASH clients and save enormous amounts of money on bandwidth and CDN costs and be compatible with transport streams used for broadcast?"

Full disclosure, the guy who designed HLS and serves as the standard's "Benevolent Dictator" used to be a coworker of mine.
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Old 09-15-2012, 07:52 PM   #19
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But what is the percentage in the US? Since the Stream is only available in the US.
Android has 35% of U.S. tablet market
http://www.forbes.com/sites/sap/2012...ke-ipad-chart/
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Old 09-16-2012, 12:40 AM   #20
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That article says they expect Androidvto overtake Apple soon. I don't think that's going to happen. The main appeal of Adroid tablets to most people is the price. Geeks like the flexibility, but most people buy an Android tablet because the iPad is too expensive. They don't mind the smaller screen or inferior hardware, the $200 price tag, vs $500 for an iPad, is what seals the deal. However Apple has an answer to that. By all accounts they are going to release an iPad Mini next month with a much more competitive price point. Once Apple is able to compete on price Android adoption is going to slow considerably because most people will just get the Mini instead.

Now there will still be a few manufactures that will cut prices on Android tablets even further to get back in the game, but the quality of the hardware is going to have to be so terrible that they're going to turn out to be junk. The only one that will have a real chance is the Kindle Fire because Amazon can afford to sell it at a loss because they will make it back in consumption of their media services. The rest will have to cut quality to cut prices and that will mean sh*tty hardware that people are not going to enjoy using.

And lets not count MS out of the game. I don't think they're going to make an immediate impact, but they know their core business is on the line here and they are going to come out swinging.

All that being said if TiVo had to choose one OS to develop this thing for first, doesn't it still make sense to choose the one with 65% of the market vs the one with 35%?

Dan
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Old 09-16-2012, 02:11 AM   #21
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Isn't the only reason Apple tablet prices are so high is because they have a very high profit margin? For me I'll take an android or Windows tablet any day over an Apple one. Even if the Apple one was cheaper. Every time I've messed around with an iPad I did not like it.
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Old 09-16-2012, 07:01 AM   #22
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Google can afford to sell the Nexus at a loss because it has much of thee same content offerings as the Fire with their Google Play area. I tend to think they'll start grabbing market share because they're very committed to it and the Android Tablet OS has come a long ways in a very short time and Google's track record is impressive. The Jelly Bean os is, in my mind, quite competitive with IOS, just not quite the third party tablet specific app support yet.

It'll be interesting to see where Microsoft prices the Surface, but for whatever reason they've consistently executed poorly in mobile devices for so long now, I can't take them too seriously.
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Old 09-16-2012, 07:50 AM   #23
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The same argument about folk buying android smartphones only because they were cheaper than iphones was once made too.

It simply is not the case. Many folks PREFER the open market android platform to ios. In tablets, its a slower progression but Apple will lose market share to android there as well as the hardware catches up. Its not JUST about price. But the value for the dollar is much higer on the Android side.
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Old 09-16-2012, 12:38 PM   #24
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The same argument about folk buying android smartphones only because they were cheaper than iphones was once made too.

It simply is not the case. Many folks PREFER the open market android platform to ios.
Geeks prefer the openness of Android, but most people could care less. They want a smart phone that has the apps they want at a price they can afford. Android devices also have wider variety of hardware choices like bigger screens, slide out keyboards, etc.. that some appeal to some people. However the vast majority of people choose Android devices because they are cheaper and available on more carriers. (Apple's exclusive deal with AT&T really hurt them early on)

In the tablet space it's the same thing. iPads are expensive! Minimum $500 for a current generation model. Compare that to a $200 Nexus or Fire HD and a lot of people are going to chose the cheaper option because they don't know, or care, about the differences. If Apple releases the iPad Mini in the same ballpark (I'm thinking $250 or less) those other devices are going to have a tougher road. Apple is still considered the premium option. They have better industrial design and construction then most other manufacturers. Plus they're just easier to use. Amazon is attempting to dumb down Android to make it easier like iOS but in the process they're excluding a large portion of the apps, which hurts the user experience.

Windows 8 will have a slight advantage a year or so from now because it will be the same OS that people will be running on the desktop and people will be familiar with it. However it might be too little too late, we'll have to wait and see on that one.

Now don't get me wrong I don't think Android is going anywhere, and it will likely pick up a little market share in the coming year. However I don't think it's going to overtake the tablet space like it did the phone space. There were circumstances, some fostered by Apple, that allowed that to happen in the phone space and I don't think Apple is going to allow that to happen again in the tablet space if they can help it.

Dan
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Old 09-18-2012, 07:33 PM   #25
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Quote:
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That article says they expect Androidvto overtake Apple soon. I don't think that's going to happen. The main appeal of Adroid tablets to most people is the price. Geeks like the flexibility, but most people buy an Android tablet because the iPad is too expensive. They don't mind the smaller screen or inferior hardware, the $200 price tag, vs $500 for an iPad, is what seals the deal. However Apple has an answer to that. By all accounts they are going to release an iPad Mini next month with a much more competitive price point. Once Apple is able to compete on price Android adoption is going to slow considerably because most people will just get the Mini instead.

Now there will still be a few manufactures that will cut prices on Android tablets even further to get back in the game, but the quality of the hardware is going to have to be so terrible that they're going to turn out to be junk. The only one that will have a real chance is the Kindle Fire because Amazon can afford to sell it at a loss because they will make it back in consumption of their media services. The rest will have to cut quality to cut prices and that will mean sh*tty hardware that people are not going to enjoy using.

And lets not count MS out of the game. I don't think they're going to make an immediate impact, but they know their core business is on the line here and they are going to come out swinging.

All that being said if TiVo had to choose one OS to develop this thing for first, doesn't it still make sense to choose the one with 65% of the market vs the one with 35%?

Dan

As you said- amazon is a much bigger issue for apple tablets then plain android ones. In a nut shell they can and will undercut apple with very reasonable hardware. From a price perspective apple will never compete with amazon for tablets.

but agreed- if you are developing for tablets then you go for ipad first.

PS- and the first generation windows tablets apparently will make ipads look cheap. ;-D
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Old 09-18-2012, 07:39 PM   #26
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the big issue is not that tivo developed ipad first- it's that like everything else they are so darned slow. So the second tier might take more than a year to do (see HDUI, updated youtube and netflix apps, etc, etc)
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:40 AM   #27
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It's my understanding that they are working on it now and it should be available sooner rather then later. I'd be surprised if Android support wasn't released before the holidays.

Dan
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Old 09-19-2012, 07:35 AM   #28
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Dave Zatz made a comment in an article about the Stream..

Quote:
...And word on the street is Android support may not arrive until 2013...
http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2012-09/...ream-take-two/


Which I really hope is not true. 2013 is a long ways away. I could really get some use out of a stream right now.
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Old 09-19-2012, 10:37 AM   #29
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just to add to this thread ...

Netflix rolled out to the ipad first and then to windows mobile 7 (which had just been launched). Much later it was added to Android. The bottom line for Android is security which has only been recently addressed. For example, i have written simple apps on Android that can take the Netflix video/audio streams after decryption has been done. yes, Android supports HLS but it's the way Apple supported encrypted HLS in a very secure manner from the get go that has made it very friendly to the content owners.

It will be on Android, its just a matter of time IMHO.
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:21 AM   #30
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Somehow I didn't notice the stream until last night. It looked interesting. No Android support makes it a non starter for me as we're not ios. Considering all the other issues I'm reading about, it's probably fortunate for me that Tivo has disappointed once again. It would be worse if I blew $130 on the thing!
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