TiVo Community
TiVo Community
TiVo Community
Go Back   TiVo Community > Main TiVo Forums > TiVo Premiere DVRs
TiVo Community
Reply
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-30-2010, 12:24 PM   #1
jcostom
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 28
Drive upgrades in a Premiere unit?

What can I say, I'm cheap.

I don't see the value in the extra $200 to go from a 320GB drive to a 1TB drive (I already have a glow remote). Being a geek, however, I certainly want the 1+TB capacity in my TiVo.

When we first bought our THD, before I ever booted the unit, I popped the 160GB HD out and used it to image a new 1TB drive with the MFStools CD (still have the virgin 160GB HD at home in a static bag). Does that same process remain valid on a Premiere? Anybody know if we can go 1.5 or 2TB in these new units?

Thanks gang.
__________________
TiVo HD -> 1TB Internal HD
TiVo Premiere XL
jcostom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2010, 12:40 PM   #2
bkdtv
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: DC Metro Area
Posts: 7,902
From the sticky at the top of the forum:

Quote:
Will the internal hard drive be upgradable like past TiVos?

Internal drive upgrades are not possible with existing tools. Tools such as WinMFS and MFSLive enable capacity on larger replacement drives by creating a new partition with the extra space. Prior TiVos recognized the new partition and used it to store recorded programs. The Premiere does not, so new methods must be found to utilize the added capacity on a replacement drive.

For now, Western Digital’s My DVR Expander (1TB eSATA) is the only option to increase capacity.

bkdtv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2010, 12:50 PM   #3
jcostom
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkdtv View Post
From the sticky at the top of the forum:
Doh! Not sure how I missed that, especially since I read that post. Thanks for the pointer..
__________________
TiVo HD -> 1TB Internal HD
TiVo Premiere XL
jcostom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2010, 12:52 PM   #4
matguy
Registered User
 
matguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcostom View Post
Doh! Not sure how I missed that, especially since I read that post. Thanks for the pointer..
Lots of us are interested in updates though, interestingly this was the first question my wife asked. Not sure if she asked because she was interested in it happening or just aware of my history *shrug*
__________________
matguy.com
matguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2010, 01:10 AM   #5
Bsteenson
TiVo is no BS
 
Bsteenson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Iowa
Posts: 133
I am also interested in possibility of internal disk upgrade, but for now I'm going to be content with an external eSATA expander drive. For $129 from Amazon it's only a little more than a 1TB internal drive would cost, plus you get the full 1TB + 320GB instead of losing the original 320GB, plus the warranty stays intact, which might not be a bad thing on such a new product. Fingers crossed I don't have problems with an inconsistent connection between the Premiere and the expander that screws everything up.
__________________
NOW ENJOYING:
Premiere Elite; Premiere; TiVoHD; Series 2 DT (total 5.1 TB storage!); TiVo Stream
RETIRED:
Series 2 DT (2); Series 2 (2); Series 1 (2)
Bsteenson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2010, 02:18 AM   #6
jmill
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 217
TiVo has disabled the ability to "expand" drive space in Premiere. What this means is that current tools will not work until a new way is found to add larger drives.
jmill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2010, 04:31 AM   #7
Dr_Diablo
Dr_Diablo
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Midwest
Posts: 912
big nuff 4 now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkdtv View Post
From the sticky at the top of the forum:
whats that? bout 1200 of SD recordings?
Dr_Diablo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2010, 04:51 AM   #8
Phantom Gremlin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Tualatin, Oregon
Posts: 1,542
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bsteenson View Post
I am also interested in possibility of internal disk upgrade, but for now I'm going to be content with an external eSATA expander drive.
If you're willing to trust WD, have I got a deal for you. I'll sell you my two flaky 500 GB expanders (for really cheap).

You'll need to test them yourself to see if they work with the Premiere. I'm sure that TiVo couldn't do any of their own testing with the 500 GB ones, because, they probably couldn't find any that still work.

Okay, I'm trying to make a serious point. Why waste money on a company that sells junk? Why trust WD? Why is TiVo in bed with them exclusively? I'm mad because I went the expander route, just like you're thinking of doing, and now I've already replaced one WD with a 1000 GB internal (not WD brand!) and will replace the other one shortly.

Right now, if I was considering the Premiere, and if I was sure I wanted more than 320 GB capacity, I'd just buy the Premiere XL. With the 3 year extended warranty. Because the odds are that you'll need to use it.
Phantom Gremlin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2010, 06:50 AM   #9
aaronwt
HD Addict
 
aaronwt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Northern VA(Woodbridge)
Posts: 14,141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom Gremlin View Post
If you're willing to trust WD, have I got a deal for you. I'll sell you my two flaky 500 GB expanders (for really cheap).

You'll need to test them yourself to see if they work with the Premiere. I'm sure that TiVo couldn't do any of their own testing with the 500 GB ones, because, they probably couldn't find any that still work.

Okay, I'm trying to make a serious point. Why waste money on a company that sells junk? Why trust WD? Why is TiVo in bed with them exclusively? I'm mad because I went the expander route, just like you're thinking of doing, and now I've already replaced one WD with a 1000 GB internal (not WD brand!) and will replace the other one shortly.

Right now, if I was considering the Premiere, and if I was sure I wanted more than 320 GB capacity, I'd just buy the Premiere XL. With the 3 year extended warranty. Because the odds are that you'll need to use it.
WD drives are generally very reliable. I've used well over 100 WD drives(I'm currently using over forty right now) and have no issues with them.
Granted I'm not using the WD expander, but the three WD external drives I use also have been fine for the last 2 or 3 years.
__________________
Roamio Pro
TiVo Mini x4
Roamio Basic OTA
39TB unRAID1--53TB unRAID2--36TB unRAID3
XBL/PSN: WormholeXtreme
aaronwt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2010, 06:52 AM   #10
aaronwt
HD Addict
 
aaronwt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Northern VA(Woodbridge)
Posts: 14,141
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrumpneuma View Post
I don't know what to say.

How is it to their(tivo) advantage to stop a few nerds from upgrading the HD? It voids the warranty, I would think that would be a plus to the corporate types.
Who said TiVo was stopping people from upgrading? Someone just needs to figure out how to do it with the Premiere.

For me, I've already decided I won't be opening my units. I got two XL units and the rest are the regular Premier. Plus I got the 3 year extended warranty on all of them.
__________________
Roamio Pro
TiVo Mini x4
Roamio Basic OTA
39TB unRAID1--53TB unRAID2--36TB unRAID3
XBL/PSN: WormholeXtreme

Last edited by aaronwt : 03-31-2010 at 07:13 AM.
aaronwt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2010, 07:08 AM   #11
SullyND
L:27-31
 
SullyND's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Chicago Burbs
Posts: 7,651
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrumpneuma View Post
I don't know what to say.
Of course, you assume it was intentional.
__________________
Earl: A purpose is a great thing to have, it gives you a reason to wake up every morning.
Randy: So a purpose is like a box of powdered donut holes?
Earl: Exactly.
SullyND is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2010, 09:44 AM   #12
turbobozz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MD/VA
Posts: 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrumpneuma View Post
Perhaps Tivo is trying to get in on weaknees and dvrupgrades business with a "TIVO approved" drop in internal drive. For evidence of this kind of behavior look at how the eSATA upgrade path evolved.
Not a chance.
There's no way TiVo will sell or officially approve a drop in internal drive.
There's an exposed power supply inside the box... they don't want the average consumer thinking they can open the box.
turbobozz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2010, 09:55 AM   #13
jmpage2
Registered User
 
jmpage2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,895
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
Who said TiVo was stopping people from upgrading? Someone just needs to figure out how to do it with the Premiere.

For me, I've already decided I won't be opening my units. I got two XL units and the rest are the regular Premier. Plus I got the 3 year extended warranty on all of them.
I think we should wait and see what is possible before assuming anything. On the surface though this looks like intentional action to stop upgrades or make them much more difficult and sounds like exactly the kind of decision some guy in a suit made to sell more XL boxes.
jmpage2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2010, 10:32 AM   #14
ZeoTiVo
I can't explain
 
ZeoTiVo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 25,523
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrumpneuma View Post
In the past Tivo has taken active effort to prevent tinkering with the software when people were doing to much cool stuff.
Moxi has never let you expand drives and then prevented it
__________________
You just need to disable your sense of shame for all humanity and click past the break
ZeoTiVo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2010, 10:37 AM   #15
jmpage2
Registered User
 
jmpage2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,895
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeoTiVo View Post
Moxi has never let you expand drives and then prevented it
Considering that you can't swap out the internal drive in the Moxi for a larger one I'd say you are missing the mark here.

Adding more external drives is not something a lot of us want to do. It wastes power, etc.

Now if you can crack open the case on the Moxi and drop a shiny new 1.5TB disk into it it is news to me.
jmpage2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2010, 11:05 AM   #16
ascuser
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 50
No, actually that is what he was saying - that you can't do it; he just couldn't find any other way to name drop the Moxi. I'm pretty sure he is just messing with us now to see how many times he can mention the Moxi and in how many different threads. I guarantee you he is keeping a scorecard next to his computer.
ascuser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2010, 11:09 AM   #17
rick123
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 232
I was upset at first (still somewhat) that Tivo is apparently abandoning the S3/HD interface development and major software upgrades to concentrate on the Premier. I was also concerned that Tivo had devalued the resale value on my units by putting out a newer unit that basically is exactly the same except for the upgraded hardware, HD interface and internet "interaction".

Now that I am reading that you (for now) cannot upgrade a Premier HD, I find my units have a greatly increased resale value IMO. If the premiere HD upgrade solution turns out to be external only, those of us with upgraded HDs and lifetime subs will find our S3s easy to sell for a premium price IMO.

I had given some thought to getting a Premiere, but I don't need the fancy (soon to be ad driven) interface right now and my units do basically all the rest of the stuff I want. I also have much more storage. I find my units with lifetime subs (especially the 1TB upgrade) just as valuable as a new 320 gb Premiere.
__________________
Rick
NH, USA

1 Premiere Elite, Lifetime Sub
1 Premiere, 2TB DVR Dude HD, Lifetime Sub
TiVo Stream
TiVo Mini
Comcast Digital Cable, XFinity On Demand
Wired Network Connections
rick123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2010, 11:20 AM   #18
fatlard
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
Considering that you can't swap out the internal drive in the Moxi for a larger one I'd say you are missing the mark here.

Adding more external drives is not something a lot of us want to do. It wastes power, etc.

Now if you can crack open the case on the Moxi and drop a shiny new 1.5TB disk into it it is news to me.
Nope, as of right now you cannot added a 1.5TB drive to Moxi. They can be upgraded up to 6TB using eSATA drives.

However, the model of external drives in Moxi is very different from Tivo.

Moxi will let you use just about any SATA internal drive connected via an eSATA enclosure or a basic eSATA to SATA cable.

Furthermore, Moxi recordings are not stripped like Tivo. So you can add/remove external drives at will and not lose your recordings.

Or if you fill up the external drive .. you can unplug it and plug a new blank one to continue recording.

Last edited by fatlard : 03-31-2010 at 11:42 AM.
fatlard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2010, 11:25 AM   #19
MickeS
Registered User
 
MickeS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: AZ
Posts: 25,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatlard View Post
Nope, as of right now you cannot added a 1.5TB drive to Moxi. They can be upgraded up to 6TB using eSATA drives.

However, the model of external drives in Moxi is very different from Tivo.

Moxi will let you use just about any SATA internal drive connected via an eSATA enclosure or a basic eSATA to SATA cable.

Furthermore, Moxi recordings are not stripped like Tivo. So you can add/remove external drives at will and not lose your recordings.
I wish TiVo would have gone this route too.

I am pretty sure someone will figure out how to upgrade the internal drive though. When the Series 3 came out, it wasn't user upgradeable at first either IIRC.
MickeS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2010, 11:29 AM   #20
SullyND
L:27-31
 
SullyND's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Chicago Burbs
Posts: 7,651
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
On the surface though this looks like intentional action to stop upgrades or make them much more difficult and sounds like exactly the kind of decision some guy in a suit made to sell more XL boxes.
It could be, or the approach that they've taken to allow larger drives broke the existing utilities. It doubt TiVo has copies of WinMFS loaded for testing.
__________________
Earl: A purpose is a great thing to have, it gives you a reason to wake up every morning.
Randy: So a purpose is like a box of powdered donut holes?
Earl: Exactly.
SullyND is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2010, 11:33 AM   #21
jmpage2
Registered User
 
jmpage2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,895
Quote:
Originally Posted by SullyND View Post
It could be, or the approach that they've taken to allow larger drives broke the existing utilities. It doubt TiVo has copies of WinMFS loaded for testing.
The specific issue if you look above is that TiVo's new software does not take advantage of a larger partition if it is available, something that TiVos have done forever.

I have a hard time believing that this went unnoticed by TiVo or that it was unintentional since it would even affect their own in-house testing where engineers typically have a stack of boxes on their desk that they want to swap drives in and out of.

This really smacks of an intentional decision that TiVo has made, to the detriment of modders everywhere, at least until some workaround is figured out (which could be never).
jmpage2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2010, 11:49 AM   #22
fatlard
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
The specific issue if you look above is that TiVo's new software does not take advantage of a larger partition if it is available, something that TiVos have done forever.

I have a hard time believing that this went unnoticed by TiVo or that it was unintentional since it would even affect their own in-house testing where engineers typically have a stack of boxes on their desk that they want to swap drives in and out of.

This really smacks of an intentional decision that TiVo has made, to the detriment of modders everywhere, at least until some workaround is figured out (which could be never).

Same issue we are running into with Moxi as well, we can create a backup. We can copy the Moxi on the to a larger harddrive. We just do not know how to tell Moxi to use the extra space on the internal drive.
fatlard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2010, 01:32 PM   #23
yunlin12
Tivonation Citizen
 
yunlin12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,221
Maybe Tivo is doing this to make their new platform look more secure to all the new partners that they are trying to sign up, like Comcast, DTV, Virgin, etc. Their old system is indeed wide open, anyone could pull the drive, tinker a couple of settings, turn off encryption, and boom, content is wide open. This can't sit very well with the new cable/satellite partners that Tivo is trying to sell their box into.
__________________
ReplayTV 3000 (RIP)
Hughes HDVR2 DTivo (adopted by friend)
Tivo S2 Dual Tuner (Craiglisted)
Tivo S3 750GB (decommissioned)
Tivo HD 750GB (adopted by parents)
Tivo Premiere
Tivo Premiere XL
yunlin12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2010, 05:30 PM   #24
jfh3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Denver area
Posts: 4,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by yunlin12 View Post
Maybe Tivo is doing this to make their new platform look more secure to all the new partners that they are trying to sign up, like Comcast, DTV, Virgin, etc. Their old system is indeed wide open, anyone could pull the drive, tinker a couple of settings, turn off encryption, and boom, content is wide open. This can't sit very well with the new cable/satellite partners that Tivo is trying to sell their box into.
Umm, nope. You think you can "tinker" with a drive and turn off encryption?
No, all you can do is expand the storage partitions, not modify the code.
jfh3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2010, 06:19 PM   #25
chrishicks
Tivo Junkie
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: MI
Posts: 522
To bad Tivo wouldn't go the route of a box like the Popcorn Hour C-200 and just have an expansion bay. A user could just purchase any SATA drive, insert it in the bay, let Tivo format it and add it to the storage and bypass the external setup.
__________________
4 S3s w/Lifetime (all/w 1TB internal)
2 DTS2s w/Lifetime - upgraded to 300Gb/500Gb(retired)
S2 w/Lifetime - upgraded to 1TB(retired)
Motorola RNG200N Comcast HD DVR
chrishicks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2010, 08:08 PM   #26
yunlin12
Tivonation Citizen
 
yunlin12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,221
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfh3 View Post
Umm, nope. You think you can "tinker" with a drive and turn off encryption?
No, all you can do is expand the storage partitions, not modify the code.
I meant people were able to do that with the older DirecTivos. IIRC, It wasn't as much as changing code, but there was a flag that sets is the recorded show is stored encrypted. Since DirecTivo's didn't have TTG, it took some doing to get the shows off of the box, but not as far as changing the code itself.

For standalone Tivo's we have TTG so getting shows off the Tivo is not a big deal, except, I don't know of anyone getting around the CC flag yet, maybe a code change is required here, if that's what you mean.
__________________
ReplayTV 3000 (RIP)
Hughes HDVR2 DTivo (adopted by friend)
Tivo S2 Dual Tuner (Craiglisted)
Tivo S3 750GB (decommissioned)
Tivo HD 750GB (adopted by parents)
Tivo Premiere
Tivo Premiere XL
yunlin12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2010, 08:19 PM   #27
orangeboy
yes, I AM orangeboy!
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Moline, IL
Posts: 4,075
Quote:
Originally Posted by yunlin12 View Post
I meant people were able to do that with the older DirecTivos. IIRC, It wasn't as much as changing code, but there was a flag that sets is the recorded show is stored encrypted. Since DirecTivo's didn't have TTG, it took some doing to get the shows off of the box, but not as far as changing the code itself.

For standalone Tivo's we have TTG so getting shows off the Tivo is not a big deal, except, I don't know of anyone getting around the CC flag yet, maybe a code change is required here, if that's what you mean.
It is possible to disable/ignore CCI bytes with the standalone TiVos. I don't think it's easy enough for a novice to do, otherwise I'm sure you'd hear about the technique more often. I'm OTA only, so I have no concerns for such matters, and haven't looked fully into how to do it.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
orangeboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2010, 09:53 PM   #28
lessd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 6,013
I think the big deal with the drives is the long term viability of the Premiere, people that have been using Lifetime Series 1s for 10 years or so have put in at least one or two drives to keep the unit running, I have fixed many TiVos for friends/family by just the replacement of the drive, sometimes without any added space. It is nice to know that if your hard drive goes bad you can replace it quickly at very low cost. I know that if tools to backup the Premiere are not possible i will stay with the Series 3 TiVo as my loss will only be the UI that i use about 1% of the time and i don't care that much about the rest if I can't ever repair the hard drive system without sending the TiVo back to TiVo itself for exchange. I may be in the monitory on this issue (I guess i should take a poll)
__________________
Les Daniels

_____________________________________________
3 Roamio Plus upgraded to 2Tb & 3Tb, and 2 Minis,
lessd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2010, 09:58 PM   #29
matguy
Registered User
 
matguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by lessd View Post
I think the big deal with the drives is the long term viability of the Premiere, people that have been using Lifetime Series 1s for 10 years or so have put in at least one or two drives to keep the unit running, I have fixed many TiVos for friends/family by just the replacement of the drive, sometimes without any added space. It is nice to know that if your hard drive goes bad you can replace it quickly at very low cost. I know that if tools to backup the Premiere are not possible i will stay with the Series 3 TiVo as my loss will only be the UI that i use about 1% of the time and i don't care that much about the rest if I can't ever repair the hard drive system without sending the TiVo back to TiVo itself for exchange. I may be in the monitory on this issue (I guess i should take a poll)
I don't think the replacement is the issue, from what I understood you can put in any drive, but it only seems to recognize the size of the original image and ignores the "extra" space. (correct me if I'm wrong though.)
__________________
matguy.com
matguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2010, 10:01 PM   #30
lessd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 6,013
Quote:
Originally Posted by matguy View Post
I don't think the replacement is the issue, from what I understood you can put in any drive, but it only seems to recognize the size of the original image and ignores the "extra" space. (correct me if I'm wrong though.)
That is what is being said about the Moxi DVR, I know of nobody that has been able to back up the Premiere drive.
__________________
Les Daniels

_____________________________________________
3 Roamio Plus upgraded to 2Tb & 3Tb, and 2 Minis,
lessd is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Forum Jump




Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Advertisements

TiVo Community
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media

(C) 2013 Magenium Solutions - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVo® is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not owned or operated by TiVo Inc.
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:22 AM.
OUR NETWORK: MyOpenRouter | TechLore | SansaCommunity | RoboCommunity | MediaSmart Home | Explore3DTV | Dijit Community | DVR Playground |