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Old 09-06-2012, 01:17 PM   #1
ort
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Hooking up Stream without hardwired TiVo

http://www.tivo.com/products/tivo-st...ity#networking

The instructions clearly state that you must have a real ethernet connection to both your TiVo Premiere and your TiVo Stream. That they both have to be hardwired into your router to work...

BUT...

I have been told that this isn't actually the case.

I'm specifically interested in wiring the Stream up to my router, but having a TiVo Premiere in another room stream shows.


Has anyone in the real world actually tried this? How was your experience?
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Old 09-06-2012, 02:45 PM   #2
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I've done this with a HomePlug network and it works OK for streaming but side loading is really slow. I tried transferring a 1 hour HD program this morning and after 30 minutes it was only about 40% done and said it still had 22 minutes to go. Now this is with the stream connected directly to the wireless router, but the TiVo connected via 200mbs HomePlug. Also the wifi is only g so that might have slowed it down as well.

I think I'm going to look at converting the HomePlug leg to MOCA and the wifi to n and see if that improves things at all.

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Old 09-06-2012, 09:57 PM   #3
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Mine is hooked up via the standard TiVo N adaptor. Hopefully that's what it is. My premiere transfers HD shows from my other TiVo in almost real time. I'd say a 1 hour show takes about 45 minutes or so.

Honestly, it's the streaming I really want. The copying of shows is more like a bonus. I don't plan on using it much.

My other option would be to put another router (an extender) behind my upstairs TV and hook both my premiere and the stream into it.

But that would also require me to put enough space back there for a router, a stream and a Ethernet hub. It starts to get silly after a while.
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Old 09-06-2012, 11:57 PM   #4
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Yeah I'm in a mode where I really want to simplify my setup. I have this elaborate multi-room setup with matrix switches and wireless HDMI transmitters. But I only ever use them for TiVos anyway and with all these new streaming capabilities and devices I think I might be able to pare it down to my Premiere, my Elite and one of those Mini things when it's released. Should help with the massive rats nest of cables I have behind my TV right now.

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Old 09-07-2012, 03:24 PM   #5
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Dan,

Is your HomePlug network the standard or "AV" (200 Mbps) flavor?

In my current setup, I have a Premier and (other things) connected to a gigiabit switch and from there to a HomePlug AV adapter thru powerline to my Gigabit Wireless N router.

Will the heavy HD stream from the Premiere to the Stream go all hardwaired just thru the switch and only the transcoded stream will go over powerline to the WiFi router?
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Old 09-07-2012, 03:30 PM   #6
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Yes mine is the older 200Mbps one. Do to the way I have my network setup I had to do it opposite from you. I connected the Stream directly to the router. So for me the bigger MPEG-2 stream is coming across the powerline network and then being recoded and set directly to the wifi router. You setup should work a little better since the bigger MPEG-2 stream will be going over Ethernet and only the smaller recoded stream will be going across the powerline network.

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Old 09-09-2012, 03:17 PM   #7
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I guess my powerline network speed is pretty crappy.
My streams constantly pause & buffer. The best I can get is ~10s of play, followed by 3-5 sec pauses.

I just ordered the Actiontec Moca kit from Amazon.....
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Old 09-09-2012, 05:09 PM   #8
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I ended up ordering one of those too. My powerline was working OK, but I was seeing an occasional pause too. Plus the side loading was really slow.

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Old 09-09-2012, 05:44 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ort View Post
http://www.tivo.com/products/tivo-st...ity#networking

The instructions clearly state that you must have a real ethernet connection to both your TiVo Premiere and your TiVo Stream. That they both have to be hardwired into your router to work...

BUT...

I have been told that this isn't actually the case.

I'm specifically interested in wiring the Stream up to my router, but having a TiVo Premiere in another room stream shows.

Has anyone in the real world actually tried this? How was your experience?
One of my Premieres is connected to my network via a TiVo wireless G adapter. Doesn't set any speed records downloading, but it works. However, I did not set up the Stream with only that Premiere on the network.
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Old 09-09-2012, 06:13 PM   #10
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Basically if your network has enough bandwidth it'll work regardless of the protocol. TiVo is limiting support to Ethernet and MOCA because both of those are guaranteed to have enough bandwidth for it to work. Wifi has so many different flavors and other limitations that it would be a nightmare to support. But if you have a really good wifi connection it should work fine.

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Old 09-10-2012, 02:52 AM   #11
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I forgot to mention that I have a really good wireless N network that the iPad uses. Even with that, I wouldn't be happy with a wireless TiVo unless it was using a wireless N adapter or on a wireless N bridge.
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Old 09-12-2012, 12:40 AM   #12
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Well, I got my MoCa kit today and decided to do some benchmarking before/after install so I would know quantitatively what kind of speed improvements I would see.

First, let me explain that I have a lot of wired equipment in the office so I have a 4-port gigiabit switch (D-Link DGS-2205) hanging off my Wireless-N gigabit router (WRT320N).

The first thing I did was run internet speedtest
- Wired desktop (router): 10 Mbps/ 0.9 Mbps Down/Up (Time Waner Cable)
- Wireless N laptop: 10 Mbps/ 0.9 Mbps Down/Up
- Wired laptop to switch: 2 Mbps 0.2 Mbps Down/Up <-- what's going on here
- Wired laptop to router: 10 Mbps/ 0.9 Mbps Down/Up <-- Interesting


Transfer a ~150MB video file from Home server
- Wired desktop: ~300 Mbps
- Wireless N laptptop: 21 Mbps
- Wired laptop to switch: glacial - initial estimate was < 0.5 Mbps
- Wired laptop to router: ~300 Mbps

Obviously something was wrong and after power-cycling the switch, the performance matched the direct router connection.
Since my powerline adapter was fed from the switch so I thought this could have been why my streams were always crappy and unusable and, sure enough, with the switch operating as expected, my streams played without any issues! Great, but ticks me off I bought the MoCa kit for a non-issue.

Since I have it, I will install the MoCa adapter tomorrow and see what kind of performance I get. I will probably leave the powerline setup installed and just move the adapter up to the small media room I have and replace the Wireless-N access point/bridge that's in there as it's a little challenged due t the long distances and number of walls between it and the access point.
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Old 09-12-2012, 01:00 AM   #13
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I ran tests on my network before, using 200 AV powerline, and after using MOCA and the difference was substantial. Transferring via TTG from Elite on one end to PC on the other I went from 2.6MBs to 5.8MBs. I also tried side loading to the iPad and that was a little fater, but not significantly so I also bought an 802.11n access point to replace my 802.11g to see if that helps. I just set that up and haven't had a chance to run a speed test yet.

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Old 09-12-2012, 08:42 AM   #14
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I've been using the Stream for a couple of days with two Tivo's (neither hardwired) and it works perfectly.

My network consists of two Tivo Premiere's (both on Tivo wireless N adapters), Tivo Stream, iPad 2, two iPhone 4S phones, generic cable modem, wireless g laptop, PC server running Tivo desktop over wired cat5 to router, and an Asus RT-N56U dual band wireless N gigabit router.

I highly recommend the Asus router. Previously I had all sorts of issues streaming using a linksys g router. I set up the dual band Asus router to use the 5Ghz frequency for just the two Tivo Premieres and the 2.4Ghz frequency for everything else (ipad, iphones, laptop, thermostat, etc). The tivos stream tivo to tivo instantaneously as well as using Tivo Stream to ipad. No glitches and its super fast. Using TV Desktop to my PC server I get 50mbit/s easily from each Tivo. I can even download a show from each of the Tivo Premieres at the same time via Tivo Desktop to the PC and I get real world speed of 100mbit/s. With dualband you get two SSID's - one for each band.

I can't recommend a dual band wireless router enough. The Asus RT-N56U is expensive at $105 but has worked flawlessly since March 2011 with my Premieres. I see Asus makes other dual band models now also.
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Old 09-12-2012, 05:14 PM   #15
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You should try the custom firmware for the RT-N56U. It makes it even better. I recently returned my EA-N66 AP to get a second RT-N56U to use as an AP. Because of how much better the custom firmware is over the Asus official firmware.

http://code.google.com/p/rt-n56u/


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Old 09-12-2012, 10:07 PM   #16
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I use the Asus RT-N66U. A bit more than some, but fantastic wireless range and performance, especially on 5ghz
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Old 09-14-2012, 09:13 AM   #17
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Just to add to the information - I've got one Premiere on a G wireless adapter and an Apple airport router. Got the Stream from Best Buy yesterday, and connected it to the router directly - the TiVo is still wireless. Streaming to the iPad works perfectly. A second simultaneous stream to a second iPad pauses often. So, looks like one stream on G is OK, but two is too much.

Also, I had the Stream delivered to BB for pick up. I got the email saying it was ready to pick up; when I got there, someone had brought the wrong product up to the front (a TiVo N adapter) - so they had to call to the back and get the Stream. It took about 5 minutes and they gave me 10% off for waiting
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Old 09-14-2012, 09:55 AM   #18
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Good to know!

I think I'll pick up a Stream next month.

Too many expenses and too much going on this month.
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Old 09-15-2012, 11:11 AM   #19
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Initial Set-up

The initial set-up needs to be hardwired. After that, just reestablish the WiFi connection between your TiVo Premier via TiVo Wireless N Adaptor and WiFi Router and you're golden.

Steaming works just fine.

Side loading an hours worth of programing @ the highest resolution, takes about 20 mins

Beware Jailbroken iOS devices!!!

The TiVo App will not work on a Jailbroken iPad, iPhone or iPod Touch
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Old 09-18-2012, 02:43 PM   #20
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Wait, the initial setup needs to be hardwired? That's a pain in the butt.

I would have to drag my TiVo downstairs?
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Old 09-18-2012, 03:23 PM   #21
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That's not true. The setup is done through the iPad app, which itself is wireless. That poster doesn't know what they're talking about.

Just put it wherever you plan to use it. It's all just networking, it'll work no matter where it is.

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Old 09-26-2012, 04:20 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
Basically if your network has enough bandwidth it'll work regardless of the protocol. TiVo is limiting support to Ethernet and MOCA because both of those are guaranteed to have enough bandwidth for it to work. Wifi has so many different flavors and other limitations that it would be a nightmare to support. But if you have a really good wifi connection it should work fine.

Dan
I have FIOS with an Actiontec N router and two Tivo Premieres using Tivo wireless N adapters. It took a while to get them configured properly to stream between themselves without issues, but that happened about a month ago. So I decided to go with your advice and other similar comments, and installed a Stream last night. It is hooked directly into the router via Ethernet, and the Tivos are still using the Wireless N. At no point did I have to create even a temporary wired connection for either Tivo. Basically, I just plugged the Stream into the router and a power strip.

Then I updated the Apple OS on an Ipod Touch, brought the Tivo app down to it, and started the Stream setup from the iTouch. I needed to sign in to my Tivo account to activate the Stream. That took maybe 15 minutes to happen on the Tivo servers. Then I had to run Network Diagnostics once on each Tivo box to get them updated to know about the Stream. Then I selected each Tivo box in turn in the app, entered the Media Key for the Tivo DVR, and waited through the app's last step (testing streaming). Pretty painless except I didn't realize I had to select each box after running ND to complete the process for each box.

So far, I watched about 10 minutes of recorded TV right away on the iPod Touch to check things out, then downloaded a two hour movie and checked a few minutes of it to see that it looked OK. Then I watched about 40 minutes of a prerecorded soccer game. It glitched at one point but recovered when I shut the app down and restarted. So all in all, this was a highly successful install cycle.

I agree that there's a difference between what Tivo will support and spend time on with you vs what may work. In this case, it's the wired vs wireless boundary. If you have wireless Tivos now and can't stream between them successfully, I would think streaming to the Stream is likely to fail as well. If you have two wireless Tivos using N, a good router, plenty of bandwidth and you can stream between the Tivos now, a Stream may work for you despite being not supported. It could go either way...

Update a day later: watched 40 minutes of a recorded show without a glitch. Used the 30 second skip forward and 8 second skip back for the first time since the show contained commercials (ugh). All worked as expected. These are shows recorded in HD and the iPod Touch is a gen 4 with the first Retina display. Picture quality is excellent.

Last edited by ThomasAlexHD : 09-27-2012 at 12:51 PM.
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Old 09-26-2012, 04:32 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ort View Post
http://www.tivo.com/products/tivo-st...ity#networking

The instructions clearly state that you must have a real ethernet connection to both your TiVo Premiere and your TiVo Stream. That they both have to be hardwired into your router to work...

BUT...

I have been told that this isn't actually the case.

I'm specifically interested in wiring the Stream up to my router, but having a TiVo Premiere in another room stream shows.


Has anyone in the real world actually tried this? How was your experience?
I will tell you exactly what TiVo will tell you.

Not Supported.

Bottom line (Despite the uninformed comments on some of these forums) Wireless is not fast enough for the TiVo Stream to operate correctly.

It's designed for a wired network, use on a wireless network even with an N Adapter will probably lend bad results.
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Old 09-26-2012, 06:51 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by FiddyownzX1 View Post
Bottom line (Despite the uninformed comments on some of these forums) Wireless is not fast enough for the TiVo Stream to operate correctly.
That's not true. You'll never see a cable or OTA recording exceed 20Mbps, and the Stream recodes at a bitrate of 2.24Mbps. So even if you throw in some overhead you'd never exceed 25Mbps. In the real world a 802.11g connection operates at about 30Mbps, so if you're still using a G network you may be pushing it. However 802.11n runs at around 150Mbps in the real world and should be able to handle the Stream no problem. You probably wont be able to do the maximum 4 streams at once, but one should work OK.

Now obviously signal quality, interference and other network traffic can effect it. But for most situations an N network should work fine, and a G network might work under optimal conditions.

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Old 09-26-2012, 07:27 PM   #25
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Quote:
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I will tell you exactly what TiVo will tell you.

Not Supported.

Bottom line (Despite the uninformed comments on some of these forums) Wireless is not fast enough for the TiVo Stream to operate correctly.

It's designed for a wired network, use on a wireless network even with an N Adapter will probably lend bad results.
Could have fooled me. I saw no difference in performance recently when streaming the same show from a wired TiVo to an iPad and my wireless N-adapter TiVo to an iPhone at the same time.
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Old 09-27-2012, 01:00 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
...
Now obviously signal quality, interference and other network traffic can effect it. But for most situations an N network should work fine, and a G network might work under optimal conditions.
...
Dan
One side note on signal quality for Tivo to Tivo streaming using the Tivo N adapters - it's apparently important that you have a top-notch signal to get reliable glitchless streaming. You can have a weaker signal that is perfectly adequate for hitting the Internet, getting the Guide data, etc, but not good enough to do streaming.

While trying to get my streaming working reliably, the power went out a few times. Getting streaming back was very problematic. I learned two things from online posts that helped:

1. Sometimes after a short power outage or Tivo restart, something remains set in that box that can prevent the box from being found via the network. It can still dial out, get the Guide data, etc - it just can't be accessed for streaming by the network. The solution that seemed to work: unplug the box, leave it off for at least 30 minutes (apparently clearing some kind of persistent buffer memory), then turn it back on.

2. Back to signal quality: I have one Tivo in the room with the router, and a second one downstairs with some intervening walls. After reading advice to get the best possible signal, I extended the N adapter's cable as far as I could towards the router, with great success. That difference of five feet or so was the difference between very glitchy streaming and streaming so smooth you couldn't tell which box you were watching.
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Old 10-12-2012, 12:02 PM   #27
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Wanted to share my experience for others looking into the wireless only option. I have only one Premier, and have it using the wifi adapter. I hooked up my Stream last night and the setup went fine.

Net result is similar to a couple of others in this thread, I can download shows (slowly, but that's ok) but when I try and stream, I get about 10 seconds worth and then it stops. Rinse, repeat, not watchable.

So I broke down and ordered the Actiontec Verizon Coaxial Network Adapter MOCA thingy. Got it for $74 free shipped on ebay. More expensive than I think it should be, but for me the ROI is still good because it means we can use our two Ipads as second TV's, which was the main goal for me.

I'll report back with the (hopefully positive) results once it's here.

edit: My biggest complaint so far has nothing to do with the Stream, but rather the copyright issues that prevent me from downloading most of my favorite shows, e.g. anything HBO.

Last edited by scottfehr : 10-12-2012 at 12:11 PM.
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Old 10-15-2012, 01:47 PM   #28
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I tried with the TiVO connected over Wireless N and found that I could not stream HD programs without a lot of buffering every few minutes. I switched the TiVo to a 200mbps Home plug power adapter and the Stream connected directly to a wired port on the Wireless AP/router. That has worked fine for me without any issues watching full HD video on the iPad.

Again, I wish they had the horsepower in the TiVo to do the transcoding directly and we didn't need all of this extra hardware and networking bother.
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Old 10-20-2012, 09:17 AM   #29
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Follow up

Got the Actiontec MOCA piece yesterday. Took about 5 minutes to connect and works exactly as advertised - now streams in real time flawlessly.
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Old 10-22-2012, 01:49 PM   #30
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Got the Actiontec MOCA piece yesterday. Took about 5 minutes to connect and works exactly as advertised - now streams in real time flawlessly.
Don't you need 2? One at your router/cable modem, and one at your Tivo box?

I'm in your boat too... When I'm on my PC late at night, I can easily transfer over a show or two - but it's slow, and sometimes lose the connection (the wifi to the premier box)

I'd love to go the MoCA route, but I figured I needed to get two of those.
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