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Old 09-08-2012, 06:50 AM   #61
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WOW! I totally misread this. So this only works in your home wifi network? Yeah I think I and everybody else is better off with the slingbox.

My slingbox is actually perfect on my home network, it's when I'm in somewhere like a hotel is where it gets dropped connections and stutters on wifi. It doesn't work at all on the airplane wifi.
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Old 09-08-2012, 07:32 AM   #62
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The more I read about this, the less I want this. So now you can't even transfer copy once shows to your portable device? This basically does the exact same thing as the free Cox cable app, so basically Tivo is catching up with services that other cable companies provide instead of being ahead of the game, the only difference is that many of those cable companies give you this for free whereas Tivo is charging you for it.

And as far as transfering shows go. Probably 95% of the programming on my cox provider is copy protected. I hate to say this but your best bet is to buy a slingbox and then if you want to transfer something try downloading the show off the piratebay.
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Old 09-08-2012, 10:01 AM   #63
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Ok, the 3GS. But not the 3G, original iPhone, original iPad, or anything earlier than a 4th Gen iPod Touch. Some of those devices were still being sold less than two years ago.

The point is that every consumer electronics manufacturer stops providing updates for older hardware at some point, including Apple.

Well it's a dumb point. There is a difference between 5 year support and little to no updates. Everyone with a pulse acknowledges the advantage apple has with supported updates
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Old 09-08-2012, 10:52 AM   #64
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Well it's a dumb point. There is a difference between 5 year support and little to no updates. Everyone with a pulse acknowledges the advantage apple has with supported updates
Definitely. Apple is still updating the OS in a 3 year old phone (3GS) in a market with 2 year lifetimes, while some Android phones bought last year aren't getting updates.

Case in point:

2012 is still the year of Gingerbread


It is somewhat comparing apples to oranges (no pun intended) though since it's up to carriers to push out updates to Android, while iOS is pushed out directly from Apple.

In any case, it's likely the Stream app was originally coded for iOS for multiple reasons:
1. The iPad is the tablet with the most users currently.
2. The TiVo iOS app is currently more mature than the Android app so it's likely easier to update that first and then port over to Android.
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Old 09-08-2012, 10:54 AM   #65
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It does irk me that my iPad which I bought just over a year and a half ago cannot be updated to the new OS.
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Old 09-08-2012, 12:26 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Dpordy99 View Post
WOW! I totally misread this. So this only works in your home wifi network? Yeah I think I and everybody else is better off with the slingbox.

My slingbox is actually perfect on my home network, it's when I'm in somewhere like a hotel is where it gets dropped connections and stutters on wifi. It doesn't work at all on the airplane wifi.
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The more I read about this, the less I want this. So now you can't even transfer copy once shows to your portable device? This basically does the exact same thing as the free Cox cable app, so basically Tivo is catching up with services that other cable companies provide instead of being ahead of the game, the only difference is that many of those cable companies give you this for free whereas Tivo is charging you for it.

And as far as transfering shows go. Probably 95% of the programming on my cox provider is copy protected. I hate to say this but your best bet is to buy a slingbox and then if you want to transfer something try downloading the show off the piratebay.
You contradict yourself a bit here. Why would you buy a Slingbox if it doesn't work reliably when you're not at home? The main advantage of a Slingbox is it's ability to stream away from home.

I have both and I can tell you that the TiVo Stream works better for home network streaming because there is no lag with the controls like there is with a Slingbox. So if the only advantage to a Slingbox is that it can stream outside the home, and that part doesn't work well, then why would someone want to choose a Slingbox over a Stream?

As for the copy protection thing... It sucks, but TiVo has to play by the cable companies rules. In my area only the premium channels are copy protected so I can transfer almost anything. So for me it has lots of value.

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Old 09-08-2012, 01:03 PM   #67
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Well it's a dumb point. There is a difference between 5 year support and little to no updates. Everyone with a pulse acknowledges the advantage apple has with supported updates
My mistake, I thought the original comment was about TiVo. Yes, in general iOS devices are much more likely to get updates than Android devices. That's the benefit to deal with a relatively small number of high volume devices.
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Old 09-08-2012, 04:36 PM   #68
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The "pseudo" MAC I got was 00:13:74:00:5c:38

Still waiting for the initial software update to finish.

If anyone else gets the same address, maybe someone more clever than I can use that info.
For all you developers out there, I just tried a new Tivo Stream. Its' initial MAC address is the same - 00:13:74:00:5c:38
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Old 09-08-2012, 09:38 PM   #69
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Weird. I wonder why they would all have the same initial MAC? MAC addresses are suppose to be unique. Maybe TiVo uses some sort of MAC filtering on their servers and the devices have to spoof this MAC to gain access?

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Old 09-08-2012, 09:48 PM   #70
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What do mean by "initial" MAC? You should be able to see the MAC of the Stream by logging into your router and it should be unique.
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Old 09-08-2012, 09:52 PM   #71
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What do mean by "initial" MAC? You should be able to see the MAC of the Stream by logging into your router and it should be unique.
It is unique after the initial set up of the Stream is complete. But a brand new one first iD's itself with what I called the pseudo MAC. See earlier in this thread for the poster that first noticed this.
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Old 09-08-2012, 09:55 PM   #72
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Weird. I wonder why they would all have the same initial MAC? MAC addresses are suppose to be unique. Maybe TiVo uses some sort of MAC filtering on their servers and the devices have to spoof this MAC to gain access?

Dan
More than likely it's simply that TiVo forgot to change the default MAC address (which contains a company ID), since the MAC address isn't sent out in TCP/IP packets and never makes its way out over the Internet. The MAC is only available locally (via ARP). The only thing the default MAC would tell you is whose parts/chips TiVo is using.
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Old 09-08-2012, 10:07 PM   #73
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More than likely it's simply that TiVo forgot to change the default MAC address (which contains a company ID), since the MAC address isn't sent out in TCP/IP packets and never makes its way out over the Internet. The MAC is only available locally (via ARP). The only thing the default MAC would tell you is whose parts/chips TiVo is using.
Yes, but your theory is far less interesting than the idea the pseudo MAC could somehow be used to gain control over the box.
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Old 09-08-2012, 11:13 PM   #74
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More than likely it's simply that TiVo forgot to change the default MAC address (which contains a company ID), since the MAC address isn't sent out in TCP/IP packets and never makes its way out over the Internet. The MAC is only available locally (via ARP). The only thing the default MAC would tell you is whose parts/chips TiVo is using.
It's probably just the way the network chip works. It presents the chip manufacturer's MAC until the chip firmware is updated with the device manufacturer's MAC. TiVo could have done that in advance but it's not really necessary unless you expect to have multiple Streams going through setup plugged into the same switch at the same time.
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Old 09-09-2012, 08:05 PM   #75
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Anyone that thinks the box is overpriced simply does not understand what the device does. It is not a Roku or apple tv. It has FAR more processing power under the hood to accomplish .h264 for 4 HD streams simultainiously. This may be the first consumer grade device to have anywhere near that level of processing on board. Heck, my quad core i7 laptop cannot do this.
I think you are making some unwarranted assumptions regarding what this box does and doesn't do. Reading the small print at the bottom of the Tivo Stream page, it appears the Tivo Premieres are providing the actual streams - this box is essentially just forwarding them.

If (and I say this seriously, not snarkily) you can point me to information showing that I am in error, I would appreciate it. But I don't believe the Tivo Stream box is doing any encoding at all.
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Old 09-09-2012, 08:58 PM   #76
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I think you are making some unwarranted assumptions regarding what this box does and doesn't do. Reading the small print at the bottom of the Tivo Stream page, it appears the Tivo Premieres are providing the actual streams - this box is essentially just forwarding them.

If (and I say this seriously, not snarkily) you can point me to information showing that I am in error, I would appreciate it. But I don't believe the Tivo Stream box is doing any encoding at all.
You are in error. TiVo records in native 1:1 mpeg 2 from the source, which can be many gigs in size. The iPad and iPhone can't accept or play mpg 2, they need to be .h264. The stream will transcode the mpeg2 to mp4, a native format to the idevice in a more manageable file size without quality loss. The premiere can't do any of this, the hardware is not capable.

TiVo can record mpeg4, I believe only fios has 3 or 4 channels that are mpeg4 but the hundreds others are mpeg2, but TiVo can't convert them locally to mpeg4 in order for them to be streamed to the iPad.

This brings up the question, anyone with fios record an mpeg4 channel and side load it to the iPad via the stream to so how fast it happens.
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Old 09-09-2012, 09:08 PM   #77
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You are in error. TiVo records in native 1:1 mpeg 2 from the source, which can be many gigs in size. The iPad and iPhone can't accept or play mpg 2, they need to be .h264. The stream will transcode the mpeg2 to mp4, a native format to the idevice in a more manageable file size without quality loss. The premiere can't do any of this, the hardware is not capable.
Tivo Premieres have been able to stream to other Premieres since a software update that occurred earlier this year. It is unlikely this streaming is being done using MPEG-2.

This streaming is different than the older MRV (multi-room viewing) functionality that's been available since the days of the Series 2. MRV transfers do move MPEG-2 files from one Tivo to another, and are a lot slower.
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Old 09-09-2012, 09:19 PM   #78
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Tivo Premieres have been able to stream to other Premieres since a software update that occurred earlier this year. It is unlikely this streaming is being done using MPEG-2.

This streaming is different than the older MRV (multi-room viewing) functionality that's been available since the days of the Series 2. MRV transfers do move MPEG-2 files from one Tivo to another, and are a lot slower.
why is it unlikey? premiere to premiere streaming is native. it doesnt transcode to anything. an mpeg2 file from one premiere is streamed as mpeg2 to the other. there is no .tivo decryption, mpeg2 transcoding, then immediate streaming.

MRV is a 1 to 1 copy to another premiere, and i can achieve 80+ Mbps MRV.
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Old 09-10-2012, 12:11 AM   #79
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Yes and H.264 is streamed as H.264 from Premiere to Premiere as well. FiOS had eight H.264 channels in mid May and I think they have added a few more since then. But they are all Sports channels and Spanish channels. I recorded some of the Baseball H.264 channels when they had a free weekend as a test.
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Old 09-10-2012, 12:37 AM   #80
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Premiere to Premiere streaming is always native because the playback device (i.e. the other Premiere) is always capable of playing the source stream. However the iPad can not play MPEG-2 at all and actually has limits on various aspects of the H.264 encoding so I'm betting that the Stream is used to recode shows even if the source is already H.264. It's just safer, and a lot less complicated, that way. Plus no one would ever really notice the quality difference anyway and it allows TiVo to always control the bitrate of the video so that all shows are consistent in size and bandwidth requirements.

Trust me I deal with native H.264 streams ALL THE TIME and they are all over the board when it comes to the encoding parameters they use and the vast majority of them will not play on an iPad without recoding.

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Old 09-10-2012, 09:25 AM   #81
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I think you are making some unwarranted assumptions regarding what this box does and doesn't do. Reading the small print at the bottom of the Tivo Stream page, it appears the Tivo Premieres are providing the actual streams - this box is essentially just forwarding them.

If (and I say this seriously, not snarkily) you can point me to information showing that I am in error, I would appreciate it. But I don't believe the Tivo Stream box is doing any encoding at all.
You're the one who is making unwarranted assumptions.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...168753786.html

"Zenverge, a leading developer of advanced content networking ICs, today announced that its ZN200 quad HD content networking SOC powers the TiVoŽ Stream, a sophisticated transcoding platform that connects TiVo Premiere multiroom digital video recorders (DVRs) with other IP-connected devices. Relying on the ZN200's powerful multistream networked transcoding technology, TiVo Stream enables television viewers owning a TiVo Premiere DVR to stream and download high-quality live and recorded content simultaneously to multiple wireless devices on the home network."
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Old 09-10-2012, 01:15 PM   #82
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I think you are making some unwarranted assumptions regarding what this box does and doesn't do. Reading the small print at the bottom of the Tivo Stream page, it appears the Tivo Premieres are providing the actual streams - this box is essentially just forwarding them.
It doesn't just forward them it also recodes them to H.264. iPads can;t play MPEG-2 video natively and the CPU isn't fast enough to decode HD MPEG-2 in realtime. However the iPad has a hardware based H.264 decoder. So what the Stream does is it intercepts the MPEG-2 stream from the TiVo, resamples and recodes it to H.264, then passes that along to the iPad. This is why it supports a maximum of 4 streams at once, because the chip being used in the Stream can only recode 4 streams at a time.

Now I say "only 4 streams" but in reality that is very, very, impressive. A top of the line i7 PC couldn't record 4 HD streams from MPEG-2 to H.264 in real time. The chip being used in the Stream is state of the art.

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Old 09-10-2012, 09:18 PM   #83
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Definitely. Apple is still updating the OS in a 3 year old phone (3GS) in a market with 2 year lifetimes, while some Android phones bought last year aren't getting updates.
About the only thing I know about Android phones is what I see in the CNET videos my Tivo downloads.. But even there, there are still lots of phones NOT running Gingerbread.
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Old 09-10-2012, 09:22 PM   #84
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More than likely it's simply that TiVo forgot to change the default MAC address (which contains a company ID), since the MAC address isn't sent out in TCP/IP packets and never makes its way out over the Internet. The MAC is only available locally (via ARP). The only thing the default MAC would tell you is whose parts/chips TiVo is using.
Tangential question. Can you explain how WiFi router MAC spoofing works then?

Does the spoofer have to be listening in on traffic between a 'real' device and the router to get the MAC to spoof, or can it somehow figure out what MACs are allowed otherwise?
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Old 09-10-2012, 10:35 PM   #85
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Tangential question. Can you explain how WiFi router MAC spoofing works then?

Does the spoofer have to be listening in on traffic between a 'real' device and the router to get the MAC to spoof, or can it somehow figure out what MACs are allowed otherwise?
I'm not exactly sure what you are asking, but I'm assuming you are asking how someone can figure out what MAC addresses are allowed to access a wireless router (I.e. MAC address filtering) and spoof an allowed MAC.

All wireless (802.11) packets contain the source and destination MAC addresses in the clear; even if wireless encryption is used. Someone just needs to be close enough to "overhear" the transmissions. This is all passive and the 'real' device and router never talk to the sniffer. There are programs which can do this automatically assuming the wireless card can be put into promiscuous mode. That's the reason why MAC filtering is pointless and why at least WPA2 AES encryption (with a long random key) should always be used since even with a spoofed MAC, the spoofer would need the encryption key. Also turn off WPS since it can be used to quickly "crack" the encryption key do to a flaw in the algorithm.

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Old 09-11-2012, 11:23 AM   #86
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Yes, in general iOS devices are much more likely to get updates than Android devices. That's the benefit to deal with a relatively small number of high volume devices.
It's also a benefit in dealing with a company where YOU are the customer, not the cell phone companies. They are incintivized to continually make the experience as good as possible to EVERYONE, not just the new people signing up or renewing to get a phone. I have a less than three month old brand new work-issued Android phone and it's three OS versions behind. It *MIGHT* get some version of 4, but who knows. And it's from Motorola, which I'm pretty sure Google purchased recently... go figure.
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Old 09-11-2012, 11:25 AM   #87
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If (and I say this seriously, not snarkily) you can point me to information showing that I am in error, I would appreciate it. But I don't believe the Tivo Stream box is doing any encoding at all.
Well, I think the already expressed empirical evidence that the fan gets louder, it heats up and also uses more power would imply there is something going on in there...
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Old 09-11-2012, 11:27 AM   #88
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Trust me I deal with native H.264 streams ALL THE TIME and they are all over the board when it comes to the encoding parameters they use and the vast majority of them will not play on an iPad without recoding.
Bingo.

If talk of bit rates and concepts like VBR make your head hurt when discussing or thinking about MP3's, then do yourself a favor and don't get anywhere near video codecs - "black art" doesn't even touch it!
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Old 09-11-2012, 11:31 AM   #89
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Does the spoofer have to be listening in on traffic between a 'real' device and the router to get the MAC to spoof
That's how all MAC spoofing works. Obviously this is much harder to do on a wired network than a wireless one - with wireless you just have to be close enough to "hear" the devices talking.

It's also why things like hiding SSIDs and MAC filtering are completely useless - MAC filtering on wireless in particular. Strong encryption, like morac pointed out, is the ONLY solution for "secure wireless". Anything less than WPA2 personal is just asking for trouble.
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Old 09-11-2012, 04:47 PM   #90
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I really want one of these, but not sure if I will use it much, but still want one! Is this normal?
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