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View Poll Results: How many TiVo Streams will TiVo Sell in the Next Six Months
< 5,000 33 44.59%
5,000 to 10,000 13 17.57%
10,000 to 15,000 9 12.16%
> 15,000 19 25.68%
Voters: 74. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-07-2012, 01:18 PM   #31
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I just use my second monitor for video, not to mention the TV a few feet away.
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Old 09-07-2012, 01:29 PM   #32
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Obviously the Stream is not a perfect fit for everyone. But there are legitimate uses for it and discounting them because they don't apply to you is sort of annoying.

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Old 09-07-2012, 07:03 PM   #33
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Obviously the Stream is not a perfect fit for everyone. But there are legitimate uses for it and discounting them because they don't apply to you is sort of annoying.
More than sort of...
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Old 09-08-2012, 01:26 PM   #34
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I don't see it breaking 5000 unless they expand functionality to support desktop, laptops, and Android.

Now if someone gets it working with KMTTG I could see it selling a few more. I don't see it breaking 10k though.
I have to disagree. This summer we took a trip to Europe and I loaded both iPads with lots of content for the trip. While kmttg was great and the commercial skip was awesome, I spent way too much time selecting shows, having my pc tied up for days (8 core state of the art system) and then having to mess with iTunes to get it on the iPad. Last night I picked up my iPad, went down the menu and selected "download". I was watching the daily show in high def in less than 10 minutes. As someone who flys 150k+ miles a year, this is the best accessory EVER.

Kmttg might be "better" but stream is a product for the masses.
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Old 09-08-2012, 01:34 PM   #35
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When the first iPod added video support, back when we were still using S2 TiVos, this is something I suggested to TiVo. (side loading only, not streaming) Back then the hardware to accomplish it was probably prohibitively expensive, but directly downloading shows from TiVo to a portable device has been a dream of mine for a long time. I'm happy to see it finally come true.

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Old 09-08-2012, 01:38 PM   #36
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I have to disagree. This summer we took a trip to Europe and I loaded both iPads with lots of content for the trip. While kmttg was great and the commercial skip was awesome, I spent way too much time selecting shows, having my pc tied up for days (8 core state of the art system) and then having to mess with iTunes to get it on the iPad. Last night I picked up my iPad, went down the menu and selected "download". I was watching the daily show in high def in less than 10 minutes. As someone who flys 150k+ miles a year, this is the best accessory EVER.

Kmttg might be "better" but stream is a product for the masses.
If you could use KMTTG with the Stream you wouldn't be tying up your PC all day since you wouldn't need to transcode. Also with KMTTG no need to manually select shows since you could setup autotransfers for the series you want to be available.

Depending on what you use to play video you could just use Diskaid to copy the videos over to the app. Of course right now you can't do that with the TiVo app.
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Old 09-08-2012, 03:27 PM   #37
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But the reality is that people want stuff that just works. Simply. With the same interface.

I have been in tech for 20+ years and am constantly barraged with the "why do people spend so much for X when you could do it all by combining a, b and c?"

Desktop Linux is a great example.

Non-apple tablets.

People don't want to pay more for windows, but it's what everyone uses.

People would love to pay less for a tablet, but apple has all the best apps and people know the interface.

I am in the same camp. I don't want to take the call at 3am in hong kong when my wife can't get something to print.

That is why I have TiVo. And for $130, stream is a better solution for people like me. Most civilians can't get their head around having a pc in the middle of all of this. They have shows on their TiVo and they want to watch them on their iPad. This is the simplest way. Stream live or 10 minutes to download is way easier than kmttg.

A friend wanted to see Anthony bourdon in Austin. Kmttg took hours to turn that into something he could see. Instead in a few minutes I could drop it on my iPad and walk over to his house.
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Old 09-08-2012, 04:38 PM   #38
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but directly downloading shows from TiVo to a portable device has been a dream of mine for a long time. I'm happy to see it finally come true.

Dan
It's been a dream of mine for a long time too. I just brought home the last TiVo Premiere 4 from Best Buy. Next purchase: TiVo Stream.
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Old 09-08-2012, 07:52 PM   #39
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That is why I have TiVo. And for $130, stream is a better solution for people like me. Most civilians can't get their head around having a pc in the middle of all of this. They have shows on their TiVo and they want to watch them on their iPad. This is the simplest way. Stream live or 10 minutes to download is way easier than kmttg.
I'd still like to see the Stream supported on the PC. That way I could download files to my PC already transcoded, pop out the commercials in VideoReDo and then upload to my iPad. That would save space on my iPad and make it so I didn't have to worry about FFing through the commercials. Plus it creates a demand for VideoReDo which keeps me employed.

Another cool thing would be if TiVo could utilize the Stream for TiVo to TiVo transfers to save space. Or even have the TiVo stream the recoded video back to itself to reduce the file size of a recording. TiVos can play H.264 video just fine and the file size is significantly smaller then the source MPEG-2 files so it could free up some space if you were running low.

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Old 09-08-2012, 07:54 PM   #40
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It I just brought home the last TiVo Premiere 4 from Best Buy.
If you're switching from multiple two tuner units you're going to love the Premiere 4. Not having to manage two separate To Do Lists it fantastic.

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Old 09-08-2012, 08:06 PM   #41
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The headline on that article is very misleading. The Stream can stream anything, no matter how it's protected. The only thing it blocks is offline downloading, which is to be expected as TiVoToGo has the same restrictions.

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TiVo's own site is misleading....

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Not all programs may be transferred using TiVo Stream due to the use of copy protection mechanisms permitted under the FCC's encoding rules. Some shows cannot be transferred due to the copy protection assigned them by the program provider. These shows usually are marked with a red circle-slash icon. (47 C.F.R. 76.1904)
This wording would lead one to believe that the TiVo Stream can do nothing with Copy-Once or Copy-Never recordings, as it makes no distinction between streaming and copying. When I first read this, I like I'm sure many others interpreted this to mean that the TiVo Stream was simply doing MRV and not really streaming...and thusly was of no help with copy protected recordings.
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Old 09-08-2012, 08:08 PM   #42
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So they have actually sold 55 million iPads in the US? I would have thought it was lower. That is 17% of the US population which is amazing.

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Some people have more than one and businesses own some. I don't own one myself, but I use one at work.
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Old 09-08-2012, 08:25 PM   #43
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This wording would lead one to believe that the TiVo Stream can do nothing with Copy-Once or Copy-Never recordings, as it makes no distinction between streaming and copying.
Made sense to me. It says not all shows can be "transferred", and higher up it makes a clear distinction between streaming and transferring. Plus you just have to think about the iPad as another TiVo. You can stream anything TiVo to TiVo, but you can only MRV things that are not protected. The Stream works the same way just with a transcoding device in the middle to convert the video into a format the iPad can play.

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Old 09-08-2012, 11:19 PM   #44
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Not for me it isn't. I don't find the iPad immersive at all. It doesn't matter where I hold it. I don't find watching video that way enjoyable.
I hear that but just realize that it has more to do with what you're used to and comfortable with than actual screen size.

I also prefer watching TV on my TV than on my ipad. But I realize that it's mostly based on a lifetime of habit and comfort doing it one way. It's the same reason I don't love watching TV on my desktop computer even with a nice 24" screen.

With that said I still like watching on the ipad and find this helpful when the kids are on the TV or the TV is otherwise unavailable. I actually like this better than a slingbox because I can watch something on it when my kids are watching one of their shows. I don't like the idea of having many TVs in my house and this provides an extra viewing opportunity when necessary. If only they allowed out of network streaming.
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Old 09-09-2012, 06:07 PM   #45
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TiVo's own site is misleading....



This wording would lead one to believe that the TiVo Stream can do nothing with Copy-Once or Copy-Never recordings, as it makes no distinction between streaming and copying. When I first read this, I like I'm sure many others interpreted this to mean that the TiVo Stream was simply doing MRV and not really streaming...and thusly was of no help with copy protected recordings.
I am going to guess that this is just their way of covering their butts. There are all kinds of flags on digital content and can be wrong for no apparent reason. It's probably easier to put that warning in, it gives them a way to dodge the calls or at least get people off of support calls quickly.
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Old 09-12-2012, 11:22 AM   #46
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Email promo claims that response has been "overwhelming" and quantities are limited. Sounds like they underestimated on their first production run.
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Old 09-12-2012, 11:51 AM   #47
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Email promo claims that response has been "overwhelming" and quantities are limited. Sounds like they underestimated on their first production run.
Email promo??
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Old 09-12-2012, 10:10 PM   #48
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Email promo??
TiVo marketing sent out an email earlier today, presumably to those that signed up to be notified when the Stream was available. There was no promo offer, at least not in the one I received, except for free shipping if you bought a DVR which they have had forever.
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Old 09-13-2012, 02:41 PM   #49
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The main market for this is tablets, not phones. And despite what the Apple-haters want to believe, the majority of the tablet market, by a wide margin, is iPad. When Apple releases the iPad Mini, I suspect the margin will grow even larger.

The Android market is much more fractured too -- many more OS versions to deal with, and more product variations.

And this is exactly why I will not be buying a TiVo stream, yet. The main market that they are neglecting is every person with a Tivo and a laptop or a computer at their office or another room in their house where a TV is not present which dwarfs the number the iPads out there. And when Windows 8 arrives and the massive amount of new mobile devices that will be coming I certainly hope they don't drag their feet on supporting this OS. There will be more windows 8 devices in the first year than Apple and Andorid OEM's have sold in 3 years.
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Old 09-13-2012, 02:54 PM   #50
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There will be more windows 8 devices in the first year than Apple and Andorid OEM's have sold in 3 years.
If you're counting laptops then maybe. But I doubt that will be true of tablet form factor devices. Apple has sold something like 70 million iPads since they were released. It's going to take a long time for MS to catch up to that, if it ever can.

However I do hope they add this functionality to TiVo Desktop or a Win8 app. I'd really like to be able to copy shows to my PC already recoded for iPad. Then I could just quickly edit them in VideoReDo and copy them to the iPad. That'll allow me to cram a few more shows on my iPad because I wont have wasted space from the commercials.

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Old 09-13-2012, 03:42 PM   #51
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However I do hope they add this functionality to TiVo Desktop or a Win8 app. I'd really like to be able to copy shows to my PC already recoded for iPad. Then I could just quickly edit them in VideoReDo and copy them to the iPad. That'll allow me to cram a few more shows on my iPad because I wont have wasted space from the commercials.

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I'm sure the content owners are anxious to get this done!
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Old 09-13-2012, 03:53 PM   #52
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If you're counting laptops then maybe. But I doubt that will be true of tablet form factor devices. Apple has sold something like 70 million iPads since they were released. It's going to take a long time for MS to catch up to that, if it ever can.

However I do hope they add this functionality to TiVo Desktop or a Win8 app. I'd really like to be able to copy shows to my PC already recoded for iPad. Then I could just quickly edit them in VideoReDo and copy them to the iPad. That'll allow me to cram a few more shows on my iPad because I wont have wasted space from the commercials.

Dan
Outside of Win RT tablets, which I do feel will struggle with adoption, a good chunk of Win 8 devices will be hybrid devices that will offer both tablet and laptop functionality so in a years time there will be a huge amount of these devices in the market. As of Oct 26 and going forward every new laptop, convertable, desktop, AIO or tablet that is windows based will be running Windows 8 or Windows RT. 70 million windows devices sold in a year worldwide is easily reached. Windows 8 is going to make standalone tablets redundant devices. Just look at the Surface Pro for one example of what is coming.
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Old 09-13-2012, 04:23 PM   #53
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Windows 8 is going to make standalone tablets redundant devices. Just look at the Surface Pro for one example of what is coming.
That's debatable. For businesses maybe, but I think most consumers are coming to realize that they don't really need a full blown PC for their daily usage. The convertible tablets are going to be popular among workers, but I think consumers are really starting to move into a post-PC era. So the question really is... can the RT tablets can make any inroads in that space? They may eventually, but I think it's going to take a lot longer then a year to dethrone Apple. Even Android, which has a majority share of the phone market, is struggling in the tablet space.

I'm not saying Apple is unbeatable, I just think it's going to take more then a year for it to happen.

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Old 09-13-2012, 04:24 PM   #54
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I'm sure the content owners are anxious to get this done!
They may not be, but given my business stake in this I really hope TiVo is going to do it anyway.

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Old 09-13-2012, 04:40 PM   #55
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That's debatable. For businesses maybe, but I think most consumers are coming to realize that they don't really need a full blown PC for their daily usage. The convertible tablets are going to be popular among workers, but I think consumers are really starting to move into a post-PC era. So the question really is... can the RT tablets can make any inroads in that space? They may eventually, but I think it's going to take a lot longer then a year to dethrone Apple. Even Android, which has a majority share of the phone market, is struggling in the tablet space.

I'm not saying Apple is unbeatable, I just think it's going to take more then a year for it to happen.

Dan
Since the OEM's are once again going to play the race to the bottom with the hybrid devices, why would a consumer spend $600 on a 32gb ipad when they could spend a little more on a device that serves all the purposes of a tablet and also runs every piece of traditional software and interfaces with all their other peripherals that they are accustomed to and already own? That is going to be the beauty of Windows 8, and once customers realize that the allure of the iPad and tablet only devices will tarnish, and that is why i think Win RT will struggle. Windows 8 is truly a consumer OS and businesses will stick to deploying Windows 7. I know that Apple won't be beat in a year, if ever, but their market share will have a big dent in it very quickly.

I am disappointed that TiVo is limiting their potential customer base with a device like the TiVo stream by just making it iOS compatible. They are cutting off their nose despite their face. How they do not have a Windows client is not understandable.
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Old 09-13-2012, 05:52 PM   #56
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Since the OEM's are once again going to play the race to the bottom with the hybrid devices, why would a consumer spend $600 on a 32gb ipad when they could spend a little more on a device that serves all the purposes of a tablet and also runs every piece of traditional software and interfaces with all their other peripherals that they are accustomed to and already own?
Because most people don't really need to run anything other then the built in apps anyway. The vast majority of consumer PC users use it to browse the web, check email and light document/photo editing. A full blown Windows 8 machine is overkill for them. So it all comes down to ease of use. I've been a Windows user for 20 years and no version has ever been easy to use. Especially when you start throwing third party apps and peripherals into the mix. iOS's walled garden approach may be limiting, but it's extremely easy to use and maintain. I'm not sure Windows 8 will be quite so polished on it's first iteration.

Not to mention MS has gone out of their way to make using the Desktop portion of Win8 as difficult as possible. They want to force people into Metro, so the appeal of running all those apps you already own is going to ware of rather quickly.

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I am disappointed that TiVo is limiting their potential customer base with a device like the TiVo stream by just making it iOS compatible. They are cutting off their nose despite their face. How they do not have a Windows client is not understandable.
It's iOS specific right now, but there is nothing built into the hardware them from expanding to other platforms. In fact they're working on Android support right now. And based on a little bit of poking around I did it seems the stream uses standard JSON scripting for commands and HLS for streaming, so pretty much anything should be possible down the road.

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Old 09-13-2012, 06:19 PM   #57
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However I do hope they add this functionality to TiVo Desktop or a Win8 app. I'd really like to be able to copy shows to my PC already recoded for iPad. Then I could just quickly edit them in VideoReDo and copy them to the iPad. That'll allow me to cram a few more shows on my iPad because I wont have wasted space from the commercials.

Dan
How much time would you save versus what it takes for VRD to recode to iPad specs (I noticed it provides an iPad profile)?
Do you usually transfer THAT much material and convert it for your iPad?
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Old 09-13-2012, 06:24 PM   #58
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A quick edit of an H.264 file takes a few seconds. A full recode, even on my i7, takes about 45 minutes per hour of content. Not to mention the transfer from a Stream is faster then a TTG to the PC. Probably because it's using the MRV interface instead of the TTG interface, which requires extra encryption and muxing steps.

The only time I ever really convert stuff for my iPad is when I go on vacation or a business trip. (maybe a couple times a year) But when I do I usually take a bunch of stuff because I don't know what I'll be in the mood to watch while I'm away.

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Old 09-14-2012, 08:05 PM   #59
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If you're switching from multiple two tuner units you're going to love the Premiere 4. Not having to manage two separate To Do Lists it fantastic.

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I'm actually switching from a single TivoHD. I really like the extra two tuners and faster transfers!
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Old 09-14-2012, 08:12 PM   #60
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[quote=Dan203;9271824]I'd still like to see the Stream supported on the PC. That way I could download files to my PC already transcoded, pop out the commercials in VideoReDo and then upload to my iPad. That would save space on my iPad and make it so I didn't have to worry about FFing through the commercials. Plus it creates a demand for VideoReDo which keeps me employed.

Exactly! I also hope that, eventually, the transfers to iPad can be done in the background. Right now, it's tying up my one iPad from being used for web browsing.
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