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Old 09-06-2012, 06:37 AM   #1
chashd
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TiVo Stream Cost

I have no problem paying 129.00 for something, but I was just wondering if anyone knows how TiVo came up with the price for this thing. Does the unit really cost that much to make? I'm no expert, but I have a hard time believing that the tech inside justifies that price. I know us diehards will buy it, buy for the mass TiVo, subscribers, .......?
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Old 09-06-2012, 08:10 AM   #2
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I highly doubt TiVo is making much profit if any on the Steam. The "tech" is similar to a Slingbox Pro-HD or Solo without the inputs/outputs so it certainly isn't cheap to produce (the chipset is basically all of the cost).
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Old 09-06-2012, 08:45 AM   #3
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There is no subscription cost. Why would you expect the item to cost what it actually sells for??
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Old 09-06-2012, 09:15 AM   #4
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They're also giving the app away for free.

Considering the relatively small market for this, and the development and support costs, I think it's a great price.
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Old 09-06-2012, 09:18 AM   #5
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I have no problem paying 129.00 for something, but I was just wondering if anyone knows how TiVo came up with the price for this thing. Does the unit really cost that much to make? I'm no expert, but I have a hard time believing that the tech inside justifies that price. I know us diehards will buy it, buy for the mass TiVo, subscribers, .......?
Well this device is designed for the masses that paid for a premium DVR and for iPhones, iPods, & iPads, all of which cost a pretty penny. Seems like $129 would be nothing comparatively and I would guess even at $129 the profit margins are allot less than any of those "i" devices.
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Old 09-06-2012, 12:41 PM   #6
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I expect TiVo is probably making about a 10 to 15% profit on each Stream sold, which selling at $130 isn't a lot in the stream of things (no pun intended). The Stream is likely a way to keep up with cable company provided DVRs, many of which already have this functionality built in. Basically it's a way to maintain sales of TiVo DVRs, which have been steadily falling since even before the Premiere was released.

We know the next TiVo series model (5?) will have the Stream hardware built in. My guess is that at some point, prior to the next model being released the Stream will end up being bundled with Premiere hardware. Probably for marginal cost (i.e. buy a Premiere, throw in a Stream for $50 or something).
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Old 09-06-2012, 03:32 PM   #7
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It will always be a trade-off between raising the cost of the premiere with a higher end chip like the Broadcom BCM7435 which includes a quad transcoder and a lower end unit. I wouldn't be surprised if TiVo continues to market the Stream as an accessory for quite some time and releases a high-end gateway box onto the market that includes the faster processor with transcoding. The MSOs ultimately will drive the decision about what's in/out of the box. I think its easy to make an argument either way as to how much should be integrated into the gateway box.
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Old 09-06-2012, 03:50 PM   #8
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Agreed. I would not want to necessarily pay for this functionality on a replacement box, especially if I had a stand-alone unit already. But, it makes sense to be added to a "high-end" box, especially for one that is the center of a larger home system.
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Old 09-06-2012, 03:55 PM   #9
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Agreed. I would not want to necessarily pay for this functionality to be added to a "high-end" box, especially if I had a stand-alone unit already.
Since one box can handle multiple TiVo's, it seems like a waste to add the cost to each unit. For us multi-TiVo homes anyway...
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Old 09-06-2012, 04:14 PM   #10
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I don't think multi-Tivo homes are the future. I think whole-home Tivo is the future, and that's where it would make sense to integrate the Stream.

Keep in mind that a lot of the cost of what makes up the stream won't need to be added to a Tivo. Only the bits that are doing the transcoding. The next generation will need a more CPU performance anyhow, to avoid the embarrassment that is the Premiere running HDUI.

Furthermore, Tivo will have to complete with other DVR makers that will support transcoding on the box. If Tivo wants to market a premium DVR, it needs to be able to do at least what the cableco DVRs can do.
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Old 09-06-2012, 04:37 PM   #11
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Yeah the future is one TiVo with 4 or 6 tuners and Minis on extra TVs. My guess is that only the untra high end one (6 tuner) will have the Stream hardware built in.

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Old 09-06-2012, 10:25 PM   #12
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Yeah the future is one TiVo with 4 or 6 tuners and Minis on extra TVs. My guess is that only the untra high end one (6 tuner) will have the Stream hardware built in.

Dan
That would be great. A six tuner TiVo with the stream built in. Then I could sell my two Elites and just have a six tuner box along with two TiVo Mini boxes. I just hope that if they do come out with a six tuner box for retail that there will be an option with 3TB or 4TB of storage built in.
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:57 PM   #13
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I expect TiVo is probably making about a 10 to 15% profit on each Stream sold
If we're just talking hardware, I'm sure the costs are much less than that. But there's marketing, support, packaging, etc to consider. Also TiVo starts things at a certain price and then lowers it over time. If we hit $99 in the next 6 months, I wouldn't be surprised.
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Old 09-07-2012, 04:13 PM   #14
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If we're just talking hardware, I'm sure the costs are much less than that. But there's marketing, support, packaging, etc to consider. Also TiVo starts things at a certain price and then lowers it over time. If we hit $99 in the next 6 months, I wouldn't be surprised.
Yeah, the cost of the components in the Stream probably are less than $75. I was trying to include design, marketing, etc in the cost.
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Old 09-07-2012, 06:23 PM   #15
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I'm sure there is new tech, if I had to guess - its a temporary device. I would be surprised if new Tivos in a year or two don't have it built in.
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Old 09-07-2012, 06:42 PM   #16
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I'm sure there is new tech, if I had to guess - its a temporary device. I would be surprised if new Tivos in a year or two don't have it built in.
10 years from now they'll be unnecessary. Cable will have likely upgraded to H.264 encoding by then, so no need to transcode. And even if they haven't the iPads (or whatever) that are available at that time will likely have enough horsepower to decode MPEG-2 in software.

This is definitely a stopgap technology, but it's a nice addition to have given the current technology.

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Old 09-07-2012, 06:52 PM   #17
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10 years from now they'll be unnecessary. Cable will have likely upgraded to H.264 encoding by then, so no need to transcode. And even if they haven't the iPads (or whatever) that are available at that time will likely have enough horsepower to decode MPEG-2 in software.

This is definitely a stopgap technology, but it's a nice addition to have given the current technology.

Dan
10 years from now, there probably won't be any DVRs and cable as we know it won't exist. All TV will stream directly to portable devices. We're pretty close to that now.
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Old 09-07-2012, 09:17 PM   #18
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I hope there isn't MPEG2 still around in ten years.
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Old 09-08-2012, 06:55 AM   #19
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Free slide remote

I ordered my Stream yesterday by phone. I asked the rep if there was anything he could do for me, a 13 year TiVo customer, to help with the cost. He couldn't touch the Stream or offer reduced or faster shipping for free but he did give me a free slide remote.

Just wanted to share.

Best,
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Old 09-08-2012, 08:06 AM   #20
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That sounds like an excellent deal to me.
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Old 09-08-2012, 08:24 AM   #21
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I ordered my Stream yesterday by phone. I asked the rep if there was anything he could do for me, a 13 year TiVo customer, to help with the cost. He couldn't touch the Stream or offer reduced or faster shipping for free but he did give me a free slide remote.

Just wanted to share.

Best,
Scott
Son of a #@!, i should of called
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Old 09-08-2012, 10:07 AM   #22
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I ordered my Stream yesterday by phone. I asked the rep if there was anything he could do for me, a 13 year TiVo customer, to help with the cost. He couldn't touch the Stream or offer reduced or faster shipping for free but he did give me a free slide remote.

Just wanted to share.

Best,
Scott
That's cool. Congrats on the deal.

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Old 09-09-2012, 07:14 PM   #23
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It's simple: TiVo is charging the maximum price that they believe people will pay. It's called capitalism.
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Old 09-10-2012, 03:54 PM   #24
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I think the price is fine for a nerdy niche item like this. Someone with a TiVo and an iPad is likely to have $130 as well. It's smart to keep it separate from the main TiVo unit until they can get the price down so far it's included in the main unit. As someone who just got two new Premiere TiVo units, I'm glad they're "upgradable" by adding this to the network.

An external item like this will be a hard sell to casual customers.
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Old 09-10-2012, 09:59 PM   #25
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I highly doubt TiVo is making much profit if any on the Steam. The "tech" is similar to a Slingbox Pro-HD or Solo without the inputs/outputs so it certainly isn't cheap to produce (the chipset is basically all of the cost).
..and of course you have to pay $30 per device for the app (i.e. you have to buy the iPhone and iPad apps separately, it's not universal, right) for SlingBoxes.. So tack $30+ on the price for comparison.

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We know the next TiVo series model (5?) will have the Stream hardware built in.
We know? I thought it was hypothesized so far, and it is logical to hypothesize, but how do we know it?
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Old 09-10-2012, 10:02 PM   #26
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10 years from now, there probably won't be any DVRs and cable as we know it won't exist. All TV will stream directly to portable devices. We're pretty close to that now.
Nice idea, but unless it's available *without commercials* either VERY cheaply PPV, or on an all-you-can-eat model _including_ new programming… I'll still have a DVR.

I would love to give up the DVR in general, dealing with multiple tuners, clipping, missed recordings (rare), etc.. But I have been a convert to being able to download shows, to save, or to simply make more space that way.
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Old 09-10-2012, 10:26 PM   #27
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Also, something to consider is that this will likely be rolled into the next generation of tivo boxes, so the cost of the stream will be zero when series 5 rolls around
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Old 09-11-2012, 02:26 AM   #28
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We know? I thought it was hypothesized so far, and it is logical to hypothesize, but how do we know it?
I think one of the hogher ups at TiVo (CEO?) said something aout the functionality being built into a future TiVo. No one ever mentioned Series 5 or said that it would be built into all future TiVos.

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Old 09-11-2012, 02:16 PM   #29
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I think one of the hogher ups at TiVo (CEO?) said something aout the functionality being built into a future TiVo. No one ever mentioned Series 5 or said that it would be built into all future TiVos.

Dan
It's only logical that this would be built in on future models, and it's only logical that the next series will be called series 5
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Old 09-11-2012, 02:24 PM   #30
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It's only logical that this would be built in on future models, and it's only logical that the next series will be called series 5
Logic rarely applies to marketing. Based on TiVo's recent naming scheme and the fact that the term "series 4" is hardly ever used, the next series is more likely to be called TiVo Supreme than series 5.
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