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Old 09-12-2012, 05:14 PM   #61
crxssi
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Originally Posted by Thunderclap View Post
If TiVo re-wrote the HDUI in HTML5 or Java or some other program that wasn't as CPU intensie couldn't they push that to TiVo units during an update?
If you think it is not fast enough now, that suggestion would be beyond miserable. Their servers are already too slow and the HDUI already relies on too much "live" data.

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Maybe they can find a way to re-compile the Flash code into one of these other languages so they didn't have to recode from scratch.
That won't fix the design and probably would not speed things up much (not unless the compiled code were hand-optimized)
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Old 09-12-2012, 07:08 PM   #62
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If you think it is not fast enough now, that suggestion would be beyond miserable. Their servers are already too slow and the HDUI already relies on too much "live" data.
I don't think the live data has as much bearing on the UI as you think. If the live data was really the issue then the 2 tuner Premiere wouldn't be faster then the 4 tuner Elite. I very much think this is a resource problem. I think TiVo's code allocates a specific amount of resource per tuner to ensure the primary function of the box (i.e. recording) happens without flaw. The UI gets whatever is left over. If they has a one tuner Premiere it would probably be even faster.

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Old 09-12-2012, 08:24 PM   #63
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The tuner sensitivity issues are probably hardware (Broadcom?) deficiencies. I doubt TiVo can fix them. I'm disappointed that TiVo decided to use such flaky parts.

TiVo can't speed up the CPU much either, since the CPU is embedded in the SoC. No flexibility to switch out the CPU for an ARM, for example. What they've got is about as fast as MIPs processors from 15 years ago.
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Old 09-13-2012, 02:07 PM   #64
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I'm on a launch premiere (pre-ordered), and I hated the HDUI at first due to speed (I tried it and switched back several times). However since June of this year, I've actually not had a problem. The speed is usable, and I haven't had any lockups as described by the OP (on earlier versions of the software, I most certainly did).
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Old 09-14-2012, 10:42 AM   #65
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TiVo has invested a LOT of resources into the HDUI and they are still actively working on it.
I find that very hard to believe. I'm pretty sure they have not had more than a single programmer working on the HDUI for the last few years, probably not even full time.

The entire HDUI of the TIVO is no more than a 6 month project for a handful of experienced programmers.
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Old 09-14-2012, 11:18 AM   #66
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I find that very hard to believe. I'm pretty sure they have not had more than a single programmer working on the HDUI for the last few years, probably not even full time.

The entire HDUI of the TIVO is no more than a 6 month project for a handful of experienced programmers.
Sounds like you should go get a job with them. Executive material.

Seriously, Tivo just tweeted that we can expect some additional HD screens this fall- Season Pass Manager and To Do List included.
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Old 09-14-2012, 11:42 AM   #67
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If they'd just fix all the bugs I could live with it, but losing track of pause/resume points (for example) is unacceptable. And I saw this regularly when swapping from one recording to another (a common thing for me watching sports slightly delayed behind live). I've also seen it lock up a couple of times in SD screens, or going back and forth. Doing a reset on the HDUI didn't work, I had to pull the plug on the Tivo. Which is again, unacceptable.
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Old 09-14-2012, 12:52 PM   #68
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I had to pull the plug on the Tivo.
I just learned a neat trick about TiVo. If you hold down the Format button on the front of the TiVo for a few seconds it will reboot. No need to physically pull the plug. I've been using these things for years an never knew that until a couple weeks ago.

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Old 09-14-2012, 02:16 PM   #69
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I just learned a neat trick about TiVo. If you hold down the Format button on the front of the TiVo for a few seconds it will reboot. No need to physically pull the plug. I've been using these things for years an never knew that until a couple weeks ago.

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I assume that would be a soft re-boot, if the TiVo is frozen will that trick still work ?
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Old 09-14-2012, 02:55 PM   #70
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If they'd just fix all the bugs I could live with it, but losing track of pause/resume points (for example) is unacceptable. And I saw this regularly when swapping from one recording to another (a common thing for me watching sports slightly delayed behind live). I've also seen it lock up a couple of times in SD screens, or going back and forth. Doing a reset on the HDUI didn't work, I had to pull the plug on the Tivo. Which is again, unacceptable.
I've not seen any issues with my boxes remembering the locations in recordings. I can go jack and forth and it remembers my spot as long as it's not very close to the end of the recording.

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Old 09-14-2012, 03:51 PM   #71
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I've not seen any issues with my boxes remembering the locations in recordings. I can go jack and forth and it remembers my spot as long as it's not very close to the end of the recording.

The problems I have with remembering locations are always with ongoing recordings.

If I'm recording a football game, catch up to live, go watch another recorded show(either finished or also ongoing), and then come back to the football game, it's hit or miss whether or not it remembers where I left off. If I catch up and watch live TV on another tuner for a while before going back to the game, it does remember the location.

I've tested all the various ways to leave the football game; pause first, don't pause, left arrow out, TiVo-->TiVo, single press "MyShows" programmed into my Harmony, and it's never consistent.

It's come to where I make a mental note of how far I am into the recording before I leave it so I know where to FF to if it doesn't remember where I left off and starts me at the beginning.
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Old 09-14-2012, 05:34 PM   #72
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I assume that would be a soft re-boot, if the TiVo is frozen will that trick still work ?
I tried it the other night after Netflix locked up my Elite and it worked.

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Old 09-15-2012, 08:46 AM   #73
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The problems I have with remembering locations are always with ongoing recordings.

If I'm recording a football game, catch up to live, go watch another recorded show(either finished or also ongoing), and then come back to the football game, it's hit or miss whether or not it remembers where I left off. If I catch up and watch live TV on another tuner for a while before going back to the game, it does remember the location.

I've tested all the various ways to leave the football game; pause first, don't pause, left arrow out, TiVo-->TiVo, single press "MyShows" programmed into my Harmony, and it's never consistent.

It's come to where I make a mental note of how far I am into the recording before I leave it so I know where to FF to if it doesn't remember where I left off and starts me at the beginning.
Exactly, that's what I was talking about (watching slightly behind live) - ongoing recordings are the issue. And that issue alone led me to ditch the HDUI.
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Old 09-16-2012, 05:21 PM   #74
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I think the HDUI slowness might be a memory leak. It's a lot peppier after a reboot and then the speed slowly degrades over time.
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Old 09-16-2012, 07:31 PM   #75
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I think the HDUI slowness might be a memory leak. It's a lot peppier after a reboot and then the speed slowly degrades over time.
LOL i think it is the opposite.. mine seems faster as time goes on
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Old 09-16-2012, 09:04 PM   #76
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I haven't noticed mine being faster as time goes on, but I also haven't noticed it being slower either.
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Old 09-16-2012, 11:55 PM   #77
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I haven't noticed mine being faster as time goes on, but I also haven't noticed it being slower either.
Neither have I. It is consistently too slow (But at least a tolerable HDUI performance since the last update)
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Old 09-17-2012, 12:20 AM   #78
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HDUI is just about tolerable on my 2-tuner Premiere, but on Elite it's just intolerable for anyone in my family. Especially when unit has been sitting without interaction for a few hours it's just ridiculously sluggish to begin with and gradually gets better. Switch to the SDUI though and right away it's snappy again. I sure hope hope the next series of hardware gets hardware properly capable of handling Flash or whatever the next interface to be used.
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Old 09-17-2012, 06:31 AM   #79
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I am planning on subbing two premiers for 2 elites. Is it really that slow to be unusable?
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Old 09-17-2012, 06:56 AM   #80
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I am planning on subbing two premiers for 2 elites. Is it really that slow to be unusable?
No. They are perfectly usable. I use two Elites on a daily basis. And one two tuner Premiere. Whether the Elite/XL4 is very slow is very subjective.

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Old 09-17-2012, 07:18 PM   #81
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Most of the time I think my Elite is fast enough. What annoys me is that sometimes when I'm going through menus I get a "bonk" as I try to proceed into the next menu. I assume that it's refusing to accept input until the screen is rendered which sucks and adds to the impression of slowness.

I don't recall ever encountering this behavior on any generation TiVo.
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Old 09-18-2012, 12:01 PM   #82
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Most of the time I think my Elite is fast enough. What annoys me is that sometimes when I'm going through menus I get a "bonk" as I try to proceed into the next menu. I assume that it's refusing to accept input until the screen is rendered which sucks and adds to the impression of slowness.

I don't recall ever encountering this behavior on any generation TiVo.
That's exactly the sort of thing that should never occur. The user interface must be lower in priority than critical tasks like recording, but it should be higher in priority than eye candy, ads, etc. If the user does something to change the menu or other screen before it's fully rendered, the TiVo should immediately abort all unfinished items on that screen (which should be separate threads) and start rendering the newly selected screen. Eventually the TiVo will catch up when the user slows down, but the user interface should never force the user to slow down. That's why we need asynchronous multithreading, as has been noted many times.
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Old 09-18-2012, 12:20 PM   #83
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That's exactly the sort of thing that should never occur. The user interface must be lower in priority than critical tasks like recording, but it should be higher in priority than eye candy, ads, etc. If the user does something to change the menu or other screen before it's fully rendered, the TiVo should immediately abort all unfinished items on that screen (which should be separate threads) and start rendering the newly selected screen. Eventually the TiVo will catch up when the user slows down, but the user interface should never force the user to slow down. That's why we need asynchronous multithreading, as has been noted many times.
I have never had that occur
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Old 09-18-2012, 02:26 PM   #84
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I have and I agree with David. The UI should always respond to commands regardless of what state it's in. When someone has been using a UI for a while they learn where things are and don't always need for the complete UI to render before making a selection.

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Old 09-18-2012, 07:08 PM   #85
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I have never had that occur
I have. Many times, although it is still rare. And I have had the petals of death (also occasionally). And I have been able to get the menu totally confused by trying to delete things it is still recording too fast (frequently).

Generally, what I want to accomplish through the UI, I am many times faster (reading/reaction time/processing) than the HDUI can keep up with (page changes, scrolling, selecting, deleting, returning control to me, etc).
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Old 09-18-2012, 08:51 PM   #86
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Most of the time I think my Elite is fast enough. What annoys me is that sometimes when I'm going through menus I get a "bonk" as I try to proceed into the next menu. I assume that it's refusing to accept input until the screen is rendered which sucks and adds to the impression of slowness.

I don't recall ever encountering this behavior on any generation TiVo.
That's why I sold mine.

I think the lack of responsiveness is due to their move to Flash. Flash apps are clunky. They are inefficient. All those ads that bog you down in your browser? Flash.

They made a mistake by going to Flash. NOt sure why except there is an army of flash developers out there, they could port Tivo to other platforms other than Tivo boxes and attract 3rd party development.

Series 2 never had this problem.

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Old 09-18-2012, 09:11 PM   #87
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I have. Many times, although it is still rare. And I have had the petals of death (also occasionally). And I have been able to get the menu totally confused by trying to delete things it is still recording too fast (frequently).

Generally, what I want to accomplish through the UI, I am many times faster (reading/reaction time/processing) than the HDUI can keep up with (page changes, scrolling, selecting, deleting, returning control to me, etc).
I have the sounds turned off but I have never had the hdui get stuck on my button pressing or behind. I push the button for whatever screen and it responds
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Old 09-18-2012, 10:06 PM   #88
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I have never had that occur
It's easy to have happen. You just aren't trying hard enough.

Example: Watching a recording, it comes to an end, you delete it and the TiVo returns to the Now Playing Screen. If you push a button the exact moment of return, you almost always get the bonk. It takes a second or so for the NP screen to redraw.

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Generally, what I want to accomplish through the UI, I am many times faster (reading/reaction time/processing) than the HDUI can keep up with (page changes, scrolling, selecting, deleting, returning control to me, etc).
And I'm using the SDUI!

It's not a big deal, but it definitely exists. LDM is correct about the solution.
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Old 09-20-2012, 11:41 AM   #89
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You're assuming they know how to properly do UI multithreading. Based on what we've seen with the Premieres, my guess is no. Or the abominable choice of Flash is preventing them from doing so.
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Old 09-21-2012, 02:15 PM   #90
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The problems I have with remembering locations are always with ongoing recordings.

If I'm recording a football game, catch up to live, go watch another recorded show(either finished or also ongoing), and then come back to the football game, it's hit or miss whether or not it remembers where I left off. If I catch up and watch live TV on another tuner for a while before going back to the game, it does remember the location.

I've tested all the various ways to leave the football game; pause first, don't pause, left arrow out, TiVo-->TiVo, single press "MyShows" programmed into my Harmony, and it's never consistent.

It's come to where I make a mental note of how far I am into the recording before I leave it so I know where to FF to if it doesn't remember where I left off and starts me at the beginning.


Yes, this is one of the NEW bugs they introduced this summer. When watching something that is recording, and switching to watch something else then back to the thing that is recording, it appears to always lose it's place. Very frustrating!

Even more annoying, after a recording is done when the live buffer has less than 30 minutes in it, it's not possible to rewind back to the start of the buffer. This may sound like a non-issue, but I recorded something that runs over a bit and happen to finish watching it less than 30 minutes after it ended, I want to go into the live buffer to see what I missed. But yet another new bug lurks there.

If you try, it jumps you back to the end of the buffer. I've found the only way to get to the start of the buffer is to use the 3xFF and then slow down to to 2x and then 1x as you approach the beginning, making sure to press play before you actually do reach the start of the buffer. If you wait too long and hit the start of the buffer, you're back to the end again.

Tivo obviously does little or no testing of releases before they push them out widely, or something as obvious as this would never have passed QC.
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