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Old 08-26-2012, 11:46 PM   #1
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The Newsroom - 08/26/12 - The Greater Fool

As a techie, the "internet troll' story seems weak to me. Hacker groups are a lot more resourceful than this show lets on. They would have sniffed out the Indian guy as a reporter. I guess it works for TV.
Oh my god, why must this show focus so much on the relationships? It just saps the life of all the other plots. Sex & the City tours? Sloan is into Don, why make it more complicated? Mac is damned annoying. It's all crap. I'm glad this season is over, makes it easy to delete the SP and not wait and see if this crap gets better. These people act like little annoying high school kids.
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Old 08-27-2012, 06:33 AM   #2
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I liked it
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Old 08-27-2012, 09:32 AM   #3
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I'm with Robo. I stuck it out, but SP is deleted and I won't be back next season. I know Sorkin is a liberal, but if they're trying to do a show about a news program taking politicians to task, at least make an effort to hit both parties. This week's "stories" seemed more like propaganda talking points issued by the DNC than it did about serious journalists covering stories. On the West Wing, a more one-sided bias was fine since it was about an administration which you would assume is a bit lopsided in it's political views. On a show about a newroom doing "real news", it feels like MSNBC.

Personally, I strongly favor voter ID laws. If the 92 year old lady from Tennessee could make it to the polls to vote, she could make it to whatever agency in TN issues state IDs.

The Tea Party stuff seemed like it was written by a rabid blogger from HuffPo.

Anyhow, I'm done with this show. If I want any more left wing propaganda, I can turn on MSNBC or CNN. When I want the right wing side, I'll turn on Fox. If this show had at least made an attempt to appear neutral and slam both parties for their hi-jinx, then I'd probably stick around, but the personal/relationship stuff isn't engaging and the "news" stuff is lacking and one-sided.
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Old 08-27-2012, 09:37 AM   #4
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This week's "stories" seemed more like propaganda talking points issued by the DNC than it did about serious journalists covering stories.
I was waiting for the "Paid for by Obama for President" tag at the end of the episode. It was really hard to see past the politics in this episode.
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Old 08-27-2012, 09:50 AM   #5
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I really liked this episode. And this is now one of my favorite shows. I'm not sure why anyone is surprised at this point on the political leanings of the characters or the love triangles. It's been well established what this show is going to be about.

I like it for what it is, and think Sorkin's writing is some of the best on tv.
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Old 08-27-2012, 10:02 AM   #6
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Personally, I strongly favor voter ID laws. If the 92 year old lady from Tennessee could make it to the polls to vote, she could make it to whatever agency in TN issues state IDs.
Maybe we need to use a third-world mechanism... a finger dip in a permanent dye to indicate you voted. The added advantage is the conversation surrounding having voted that would ensue when people saw your dyed finger.
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Old 08-27-2012, 10:24 AM   #7
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Personally, I strongly favor voter ID laws. If the 92 year old lady from Tennessee could make it to the polls to vote, she could make it to whatever agency in TN issues state IDs.
I'm curious what your thoughts are on whether it's a problem that needs a solution. Do you believe the claim of only 86 cases related to voter fraud is incorrect, or do you think 86 cases is worth making thousands of people obtain an ID they otherwise wouldn't need?

Again, just curious.
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Old 08-27-2012, 10:34 AM   #8
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Personally, I strongly favor voter ID laws. If the 92 year old lady from Tennessee could make it to the polls to vote, she could make it to whatever agency in TN issues state IDs.
Polls are frequently in the neighborhood where you live. Just a few miles away. For me to get to the DMV I'd have to travel at least 15 miles. If I lived rural, I can't image in how far. And what if they charged for the state issued ID? You think that's fair too?
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Old 08-27-2012, 10:36 AM   #9
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I'm curious what your thoughts are on whether it's a problem that needs a solution. Do you believe the claim of only 86 cases related to voter fraud is incorrect, or do you think 86 cases is worth making thousands of people obtain an ID they otherwise wouldn't need?

Again, just curious.
I believe voter fraud is greater than the 86 cases, but I have nothing other than anecdotal evidence to support this. I'm curious on your thoughts about requiring an ID. Do you think a few minutes spent to get an ID is too much to ask of someone who wishes to vote?
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Old 08-27-2012, 10:38 AM   #10
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I liked the show for the politics and news stories, hated it for the relationship nonsense.
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I'm curious what your thoughts are on whether it's a problem that needs a solution. Do you believe the claim of only 86 cases related to voter fraud is incorrect, or do you think 86 cases is worth making thousands of people obtain an ID they otherwise wouldn't need?

Again, just curious.
I never understood why these people don't have ID? Where I live, unless you're paying cash you can't buy anything without an ID. I can't even buy popcorn in a movie theater with my credit card without showing ID. Can't even write a check to a retail store without ID. It might just be the culture here in southern California but I just find it weird that they don't have ID. However I do watch The Daily Show and seen clips with republicans saying passing these laws will help vote out Obama and I completely disagree with that, and honestly think they're being evil thinking like that.. But how hard is it to just get an ID?
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Old 08-27-2012, 10:41 AM   #11
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Polls are frequently in the neighborhood where you live. Just a few miles away. For me to get to the DMV I'd have to travel at least 15 miles. If I lived rural, I can't image in how far. And what if they charged for the state issued ID? You think that's fair too?
I know at least one of the states will issue them by mail. The states I have lived in issue IDs for free or will waive charges on a need basis. I do not think people should have to pay for an ID. I do think it's fair to ask people to make a modicum of effort to obtain one if they wish to vote.
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Old 08-27-2012, 10:42 AM   #12
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I believe voter fraud is greater than the 86 cases, but I have nothing other than anecdotal evidence to support this. I'm curious on your thoughts about requiring an ID. Do you think a few minutes spent to get an ID is too much to ask of someone who wishes to vote?
I do, even if the actual number of fraud cases is higher. I also think in many many cases it would take more time and effort than "a few minutes".

What is my fraud case threshold to start calling it a real problem? I confess I don't have a number in mind, but would be magnitudes higher than 86.

I also don't have any problem at all believing that the real motive behind these bills is not voter fraud.
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Old 08-27-2012, 11:38 AM   #13
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The issue with Mrs Cooper is that she didn't have her marriage certificate to show that her married name was now Cooper (the name on her birth certificate was different) and they wouldn't accept all the documentation that she did have. It wasn't that she wasn't putting forth and effort to get an ID, it was all the government red tape she needed to go through.
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Old 08-27-2012, 12:17 PM   #14
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These people act like little annoying high school kids.
That's my main complaint. His writing has them acting like a 17 yr old in puppy love. Isn't there a point where people have meaningful relationships, with people they care about, and not someone they accidentally hooked up with? And shouldn't these characters be mature enough to be at that point?

I like the show though. The politics doesn't bother me, that's Sorkin. As long as it's entertaining, I can handle it. It would be nice to see him pick on the far left's foibles too. Ya' know, fair & balanced.

I can see how this show would piss off enough viewers that it may have ratings issues. Even for HBO.

But the guy can write some snappy dialog!
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Old 08-27-2012, 12:21 PM   #15
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I know at least one of the states will issue them by mail. The states I have lived in issue IDs for free or will waive charges on a need basis. I do not think people should have to pay for an ID. I do think it's fair to ask people to make a modicum of effort to obtain one if they wish to vote.
Your position is philisophical, not pragmatic.

Also, it lacks a grounding in reality as the effort is typically far from being a mere modicum.

Furthermore, it completely ignores the fact that the imposition that you believe is fair, serves to solve a problem that simply doesn't exist.

And while your intentions may be well-meant (even if, again, purely philosophical), it is plainly obvious that the intent of the crafters of these laws is far more malevolent.


Instead of focusing on the abstract concept, look at the results: on the one hand, zero meaningful reduction in instances of actual voter fraud[*], and on the other hand, tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of eligible voters being denied their right to vote (the significant majority of which are conveniently in a demographic that tends to vote for one party far more often than the other).

That's an acceptable trade-off to you?




[*]and btw, even amongst the 86 or whatever instances, they were typically of a type that wouldn't even have been prevented by the laws being created. Stuff like fraudulent use of absentee ballots.
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Old 08-27-2012, 12:24 PM   #16
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When Will asked who the girl was sitting in the background all day, I started thinking that she was the death-threat person and Will was going to get shot on live TV or something. The rest of the episode had a lot of tension in it for me.

I watched way too much 24.
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Old 08-27-2012, 12:25 PM   #17
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I believe voter fraud is greater than the 86 cases, but I have nothing other than anecdotal evidence to support this. I'm curious on your thoughts about requiring an ID. Do you think a few minutes spent to get an ID is too much to ask of someone who wishes to vote?
Where does it say in the constitution that I have to have an ID to vote?
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Old 08-27-2012, 12:30 PM   #18
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Flop,

Also consider this. Disregard that Voting is a constitutionally guaranteed right.

Imagine that you are dirt poor. Like at federal poverty level. You have a family of four that you provide for using 2 minimum wage jobs. You routinely work 50+ hours a week. You get no vacation time.

Now say that going to the DMV (which is only open till 5pm in most states) without having to take unpaid time off, losing your job because you aren't working your set hours, or even assume that you do get the time off somehow. You don't own a car because you're too poor. How do you get there? bus service? No buses in rural areas.

SC tried to pull that and then said that a DMV employee would run a van to go get people. Then that got cancelled because the DMV didn't want to accept liability for disabled people.
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Old 08-27-2012, 12:36 PM   #19
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When Will asked who the girl was sitting in the background all day, I started thinking that she was the death-threat person and Will was going to get shot on live TV or something. The rest of the episode had a lot of tension in it for me.

I watched way too much 24.
I guess I do also
- that final sequence with Will going to and driving in the car...?
- I swear I thought it was going to end with him being shot.
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Old 08-27-2012, 12:54 PM   #20
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- I swear I thought it was going to end with him being shot.


I'm fine with the politics discussion as long as we're not attacking each other.

Like I said, in my area you have to have an ID for practically everything and I find it weird that in other parts of the nation people go for decades without any identification. I wouldn't mind being asked for ID when voting, at the moment I go to the polls I only need to say my name and address, but I could easily say my neighbors name and get 2 (or more) votes easily, especially if I knew that they didn't vote. It's wrong however so I don't do it. My wife's grandfather keeps an ID on him at all times (probably of the collected mindset of the area) and he hasn't driven a car in years. You need it to buy anything except when using cash or debit.

As for the evidence of politicians using the law to change the outcome of legitimate vote, that's despicable. Here's a Daily Show episode with republican governors admitting that this law would change the voting landscape to allow the defeat of Obama.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-epi...012-chris-rock
They've admitted what the real reason is, voter fraud is just a smoke screen.
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Old 08-27-2012, 01:23 PM   #21
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...It would be nice to see him pick on the far left's foibles too. Ya' know, fair & balanced. ...
Exactly!
He can't even throw us a bone with an "Ainsley Hayes" sort of a character?
Can't we have just one character who can say, "Yeah, that's true, but what about...?"
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Old 08-27-2012, 01:35 PM   #22
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I guess I do also
- that final sequence with Will going to and driving in the car...?
- I swear I thought it was going to end with him being shot.
I was very tense during that sequence. I kept thinking, "remember what happened to Mark Harmon on The West Wing".
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Old 08-27-2012, 01:47 PM   #23
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Literacy tests... poll taxes... Voter ID.

They change the name, but the game's the same.
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Old 08-27-2012, 02:16 PM   #24
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I loved all 10 hours. But I'm their demo, and Aaron sometimes seems like he's eavesdropping on the conversations I have with my friends.

I can't wait for season two.
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Old 08-27-2012, 02:32 PM   #25
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You need it to buy anything except when using cash or debit.
I can't remember the last time I was asked for ID to use a credit card.
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Old 08-27-2012, 02:36 PM   #26
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I can't remember the last time I was asked for ID to use a credit card.
It's a 50/50 scenario here. The movie theaters are like Nazi's asking for my papers. Restaurants never ask when paying. Retail shops are a mixed bag. I had a gas station card me once buying a damn red bull (~$1.50).
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Old 08-27-2012, 02:39 PM   #27
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It's a 50/50 scenario here. The movie theaters are like Nazi's asking for my papers. Restaurants never ask when paying. Retail shops are a mixed bag. I had a gas station card me once buying a damn red bull (~$1.50).
Requiring an ID is a violation of Visa's merchant agreement. They can ask, but if you don't have one, or decline to present one, they can't refuse the sale unless the card is unsigned.
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Old 08-27-2012, 02:51 PM   #28
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In PA, in order to get a state-issued ID card, you must go to the Driver's Licensing Center (20 miles from my parents' house). You must pay $13.50. You must present one of these: Birth Certificate with raised seal (U.S. issued by an authorized government agency,including U.S. territories or Puerto Rico. Non-U.S. Birth Certificates will not be accepted.) OR Certificate of U.S. Citizenship (INS Form N-560)OR Certificate of Naturalization (INS Form N-550 or N-570) OR Valid U.S. Passport
AND Two each of these: W-2 Form, Current Weapons Permit, Current Utility Bills(water, gas, electric, cable, etc.), Tax Records, Lease Agreements, Mortgage Documents

You must also present your Social Security Card, in addition to the documents specified above.

What if you are in your 90s, and you have no income, so you pay no tax, and you have no utility bills, and you live with your kids and have no bills in your name and you don't have a weapons permit?

PAs answer to that is to have the person that you live with come to the DMV and vouch for you. So now your kid, or whomever, has to take off work and go with you (which, honestly, they probably did anyway since there's ZERO public transport in my home county).

This is just a boondoggle.
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Old 08-27-2012, 03:04 PM   #29
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I liked the show for the politics and news stories, hated it for the relationship nonsense.I never understood why these people don't have ID? Where I live, unless you're paying cash you can't buy anything without an ID. I can't even buy popcorn in a movie theater with my credit card without showing ID. Can't even write a check to a retail store without ID. It might just be the culture here in southern California but I just find it weird that they don't have ID. However I do watch The Daily Show and seen clips with republicans saying passing these laws will help vote out Obama and I completely disagree with that, and honestly think they're being evil thinking like that.. But how hard is it to just get an ID?
I rarely am asked for my ID to use my credit card. Almost never. When it does happen it's such a surprise that I remember it. Happened once this year so far.

But the people they are trying to disenfranchise aren't you. They aren't worried about people with credit cards. They are trying to eliminate poor people, who mostly deal in cash, and take public transportation.

I have a good friend who has been a comic book artist for over 2 decades. He has to take a bus to go to the bank. It's a several hour effort, just to go get money so he can buy groceries. He doesn't drive. He works from home. Why does he need a drivers license?

I, myself, just got my notification of my drivers license renewal (my birthday is in September) and the new regulations say I can't renew. I have to go down and prove I'm an American. I need my Birth Certificate. I haven't had access to my birth certificate for decades. The US Navy lost it in 1981. I gave them the original, they couldn't find it to give it back. (BTW, I CAN put my hands on my DD-214, but that's not acceptable to the State of Florida). I have had to order a new copy of my birth certificate from Texas, which cost me about $25, and will take 4-6 business weeks. It's entirely possible it won't come in before my Drivers License expires and then I won't have valid ID. I need to take about six forms with me to renew my license this year. It's a real pain in the butt. I can see why people don't do it if they don't have to.

To you and me, $25 really isn't a big deal. It's an annoyance. But there's a lot of people for whom $25 is a deal breaker.

Flop strongly supports Voter ID laws. He believes fraud is rampant even though by his own admission he has no data whatsoever upon which to base that. That's because poor Flop has been lied to for so long that he doesn't know it's a lie.

Voter ID is only intended to counter "in person voter fraud" for the obvious reason that it's only used when people go to vote. In the last decade, of all the alleged fraud, they only found 10 cases of in-person voter fraud. That's it. 10 votes in 10 years.

How much money should we spend to prevent that? Isn't this the party of fiscal responsibility? 32 Republican states have spent taxpayer money to enact a bill that will cost money to solve this non-problem.
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Old 08-27-2012, 03:18 PM   #30
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I agree that if there really were only 86 cases of voter fraud then then someone's not looking close enough. Additional restrictions that get in the way of voters are not the answer. A lost vote is no different than a fraudulent one, so trading a supposed lack of illegitimate votes as the expense of legitimate ones is not a solution.
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