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Old 10-11-2012, 05:44 PM   #241
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I read somewhere that TiVo might hold off the consumer release of the Mini because of the whole live tuner XL4 requirement thing. Could have been blatant speculation, but it makes sense. The consumer confusion over it requiring an XL4 and having to actually steal the tuner for good, and not just when you're using the Mini, could get them a lot of bad press. They might be better served to just hold off until they work out dynamic tuner allocation and it works with all Premiere units.

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Old 10-11-2012, 05:51 PM   #242
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Dynamic tuner allocation - I hope this becomes a reality, though I cannot say I have seen all 4 of my Tuners actually simultaneously recording scheduled content (i.e., non-suggestions stuff).
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Old 10-11-2012, 05:54 PM   #243
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Dynamic tuner allocation - I hope this becomes a reality, though I cannot say I have seen all 4 of my Tuners actually simultaneously recording scheduled content (i.e., non-suggestions stuff).
It will become a reality. There is no doubt in my mind. Their competitors do it so they need it.
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Old 10-11-2012, 05:57 PM   #244
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It will become a reality. There is no doubt in my mind. Their competitors do it so they need it.
Right. They'd be limiting their potential user base to the subset of 4-tuner devices. Support for a 2-tuner TiVo with dynamic allocation would be a very good thing. Though, likelihood of conflict management could be a big deal.
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Old 10-11-2012, 06:34 PM   #245
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I pretty much agree with innocentfreak's assessment.

Tivo hasn't said a peep publically about holding off until the dynamic tuner thing was resolved (I've been paying obsessive attention), so unless it came from an official channel or a beta source it's just speculation.

I have to think getting it out before the holiday is a priority if at all possible. With the fall software still targeting mid-to-late October (as of 3 weeks ago), this gives them a window before hitting the Thanksgiving wall. Unless the Mini's own software is just not where it needs to be yet, and/or they reacted to the early feedback on the whole live TV tuner thing.

6 weeks to Thanksgiving. Things will either start moving pretty soon, or potentially not at all until early 2013.
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Old 10-11-2012, 06:38 PM   #246
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I pretty much agree with innocentfreak's assessment.

Tivo hasn't said a peep publically about holding off until the dynamic tuner thing was resolved (I've been paying obsessive attention), so unless it came from official channels or a beta it was just forum speculation.

I have to think getting it out before the holiday is a priority if at all possible. With the fall software still targeting mid-to-late October (as of 3 weeks ago), this gives them a window before hitting the Thanksgiving wall. Unless the Mini's own software is just not where it needs to be yet, and/or they reacted to the early feedback on the whole live TV tuner thing.

6 weeks to Thanksgiving. Things will either start moving pretty soon, or likely not at all until early 2013.
You'll notice all the recent deal announcements (e.g. Mediacom) have an early 2013 timeframe. In my view its not a coincidence. I think we may see a launch of the Mini to one or two MSOs before the holidays but the general availability will be Q1-13.
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Old 10-11-2012, 06:45 PM   #247
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You'll notice all the recent deal announcements (e.g. Mediacom) have an early 2013 timeframe. In my view its not a coincidence. I think we may see a launch of the Mini to one or two MSOs before the holidays but the general availability will be Q1-13.
That is true too, yes. But retail also got the Stream first, if that means anything at all (possibly not). And how much does the 2013 timing have to do with the Pace box availability rather than the Mini?

History and circumstantial evidence points both ways making this tough to guess. But 2013 wouldn't be at all surprising... sadly, because BIGJIM WANT!

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Old 10-12-2012, 09:59 AM   #248
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I read somewhere that TiVo might hold off the consumer release of the Mini because of the whole live tuner XL4 requirement thing.
Do you think the Premiere 4 (non XL) would also be able to handle the mini requirement if there is one? I know my next Tivo will be one of the 4 tuner variety, but which one I get depends on the Mini requirements now and in the future.
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:13 AM   #249
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Do you think the Premiere 4 (non XL) would also be able to handle the mini requirement if there is one?
yes
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Old 10-12-2012, 12:24 PM   #250
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Wink

I want this, like yesterday. Three of them in fact.

I'm okay with one tuner being "stolen" for the bedroom Mini, the other ones would primarily be used for nothing other then streaming recorded shows.

Here's to hoping this doesn't slip out past 2012.
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Old 10-12-2012, 12:28 PM   #251
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I wanted this yesterday too. Just like I wanted the Stream. But since they are dragging their feet with Android support for the Stream, I'll be picking up a Slingbox 350 on Sunday. Since TiVo doesn't want my money I'm sure Slingbox will take it.

So I hope they don't drag their feet with the Mini as well. My only reason for getting the Mini is so I can dump one cable card and finally get down to only using two cable card. At one point I had eight of them.
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Last edited by aaronwt : 10-12-2012 at 06:11 PM. Reason: doh!! I meant get down to two cable cards. I can't get down to one cable card until a six tuner retail TiVo comes out.
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Old 10-12-2012, 12:33 PM   #252
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It is odd that Android support is lagging. It's not 2009 anymore when the iPhone was still king of the hill. Support for the majority platform should be present at launch.

Market share in the U.S. is:

52% Android
33% Apple
10% Blackberry
4% Microsoft.
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Old 10-12-2012, 12:36 PM   #253
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I'm sure they want to bring support for Android devices... however it is far easier to develop apps for iOS than for Android... at my company the Android apps are taking far longer to develop and are much more challenging because of fragmentation of the Android platform. Our developers say, by comparison, that developing apps for iOS is a "breeze".

So, Android will come it will just take a while. TiVo might also have market data that indicates that for THEIR customers, iOS is the majority platform.
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Old 10-12-2012, 12:36 PM   #254
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FYI a Slingbox isn't a good replacement for a Stream. A Slingbox is like a video cable that works over a network. It connects to the A/V ports on the TiVo and when you use it you hijack that TiVo completely. Also because of the way it buffers there is a huge lag on control that makes skipping commercials nearly impossible. The Stream is like having a Mini attached to an iPad. It streams the show digitally from the TiVo so it does not interrupt the original boxes operation and the controls are also all digital so skipping commercials works exactly as expected. (There is a slight lag due to the network, but it's minimal)

For streaming inside the home the Stream is a MUCH better option. The only advantage to the Slingbox is it's ability to stream over the internet. Also don't forget the Stream has the ability to download shows as well. Although the utility of that depends on how abusive your cable provider is with the copy protection flag.

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Old 10-12-2012, 12:37 PM   #255
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I wanted this yesterday too. Just like I wanted the Stream. But since they are dragging their feet with Android support for the Stream, I'll be picking up a Slingbox 350 on Sunday. Since TiVo doesn't want my money I'm sure Slingbox will take it.

So I hope they don't drag their feet with the Mini as well. My only reason for getting the Mini is so I can dump one cable card and finally get down to only using one cable card. At one point I had eight of them.
Good luck with the Slingbox. I hardly ever use mine because the controls are very laggy and whenever I'm away from my home network the quality is extremely hit and miss.
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Old 10-12-2012, 12:50 PM   #256
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I'm sure they want to bring support for Android devices... however it is far easier to develop apps for iOS than for Android...
I agree that Android support for Stream is coming, and I understand that developing for Android is more difficult than for iOS. However, there are Android developers that are experienced that can accomplish the development requirements of Tivo. It seems like it is more of a prioritization issue rather than finding skilled Android developers.


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TiVo might also have market data that indicates that for THEIR customers, iOS is the majority platform.
You may be right. Targeting Apple products first may be a good strategy for keeping existing customers (that may have more Apple products), but if the goal is to expand their reach and gain new customers then it is a poor long-term strategy since the market share numbers indicate an important trend.
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Old 10-12-2012, 12:51 PM   #257
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Good luck with the Slingbox. I hardly ever use mine because the controls are very laggy and whenever I'm away from my home network the quality is extremely hit and miss.
I've been using a HavaHD for several years with good results. With the Slingbox 350 that will get me HD. So I already know what to expect. I don't use it often but when I do it comes in handy. For home use I'll have the redskins game on my tablet while I'm playing some Xbox 360. So with the Slingbox it will be in HD which should be a nice improvement. It should look goodon the fire HD. I wanted the Stream but I can't use it now so the Slingbox 350 is coming out at just the right time for me.
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Old 10-12-2012, 01:01 PM   #258
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Question

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Good luck with the Slingbox. I hardly ever use mine because the controls are very laggy and whenever I'm away from my home network the quality is extremely hit and miss.
I hope these new line of Slingboxes are better than the older ones. I had one and it was junk. I had similar lagging problems too. Sporadically worked within my home and had to always be reset to work. Initially, I couldn't get it to work outside my home either. I think it had to do with port forwarding within my home network's router, but I didn't have time to investigate it further so I just boxed it up & returned the whole unit for a refund.

I have briefly looked into the Vulkano devices as an alternative to Slingbox. I wonder how much better/worse they are.

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Old 10-12-2012, 01:35 PM   #259
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I wanted this yesterday too. Just like I wanted the Stream. But since they are dragging their feet with Android support for the Stream, I'll be picking up a Slingbox 350 on Sunday. Since TiVo doesn't want my money I'm sure Slingbox will take it.

So I hope they don't drag their feet with the Mini as well. My only reason for getting the Mini is so I can dump one cable card and finally get down to only using one cable card. At one point I had eight of them.
You are better off switching to iPhone or iPad and getting the Stream than keeping your Android and getting a slingbox!
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Old 10-12-2012, 01:39 PM   #260
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Let us assume for a moment that Tivo Mini will NOT have wireless support. How do I know whether my coax cabling in the house supports MoCA? My home is built in 1987. Unfortunately I don't have an ethernet port in my bedroom.

Assuming that I can have MoCA, I have read that the new Premiere 4 has Moca support built in. Does it mean that I simply need a MoCA adapter for the bedroom tv?
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Old 10-12-2012, 02:24 PM   #261
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I can't use MoCA because my TV connections are behind an amplifier, and my cable modem connection is not. I use a couple of AV500 Ethernet over power adapters. The Stream and my TiVo think its a wired connection so the Stream works fine. I can stream a Blu-Ray rip over the connection so it is fast and stable enough for anything a TiVo would want to stream to a Mini.
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Old 10-12-2012, 02:24 PM   #262
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Let us assume for a moment that Tivo Mini will NOT have wireless support. How do I know whether my coax cabling in the house supports MoCA? My home is built in 1987. Unfortunately I don't have an ethernet port in my bedroom.

Assuming that I can have MoCA, I have read that the new Premiere 4 has Moca support built in. Does it mean that I simply need a MoCA adapter for the bedroom tv?
It will more than likely not have Wireless support just as the Stream does not. I guess the possible bandwidth, lag and/or connection issues would be the reason.

MoCA will work on any Coax that can send a TV signal today, so they claim. Overall this is a great technology, but hasn't taken off since Ethernet powerline adapters seem to be more accepted. Not sure why.

If the device is MOCA capable then you can connect right from the COAX to the unit (Mini, Premeir, etc...) You will need one adapter connected to your cable line and router. If you have MOCA enabled devices, no other adapters are needed.

This link will explain.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1145636/ac...bridge-for-all

If you can get the Netgear units, MCAB1001, they seemed to be the best available but are discountinued.

BTW - MOCA tends to be faster and more reliable than Ethernet over power lines. Plus you need an adapter at each device.
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Old 10-12-2012, 02:30 PM   #263
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If MoCa does not pan out then Ethernet power adapters are probably the next best option. Worst case you can get an Ethernet to Wi-Fi gaming adapter and give it a try. Generally speaking wireless is not reliable enough for good streaming of HD video content.
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Old 10-12-2012, 02:35 PM   #264
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Let us assume for a moment that Tivo Mini will NOT have wireless support. How do I know whether my coax cabling in the house supports MoCA? My home is built in 1987. Unfortunately I don't have an ethernet port in my bedroom.

Assuming that I can have MoCA, I have read that the new Premiere 4 has Moca support built in. Does it mean that I simply need a MoCA adapter for the bedroom tv?
The Mini won't work wirelessly unless it's connected to a wireless bridge of some sort. I'd strongly recommend a wireless-N bridge if you had to go this route.

Since the Mini and Premiere 4 both have built-in MoCA support, that is more ideal.

In general terms, MoCA will work as long as your home's coax cabling all meets together with splitters. Chances are it does. The signal will go up and down the splitters and the boxes will find each other. If there is a signal amp somewhere in between the boxes, that would have to be removed or replaced with a new one that passes through MoCA signals.

To light up your house with MoCA, you would install a MoCA adapter ($50 on Tivo's site) where your router and cable modem are located (there are instructions on how to connect the 3 together).

I also always recommend using a POE (point of entry) filter if you use MoCA. They're $9 on Tivo's website. Place it before the house's main splitter to keep the MoCA signal strong and in your own home. No biggie if you know where the cable enters the home.
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Old 10-12-2012, 02:47 PM   #265
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It will more than likely not have Wireless support just as the Stream does not. I guess the possible bandwidth, lag and/or connection issues would be the reason.

MoCA will work on any Coax that can send a TV signal today, so they claim. Overall this is a great technology, but hasn't taken off since Ethernet powerline adapters seem to be more accepted. Not sure why.

If the device is MOCA capable then you can connect right from the COAX to the unit (Mini, Premeir, etc...) You will need one adapter connected to your cable line and router. If you have MOCA enabled devices, no other adapters are needed.

This link will explain.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1145636/ac...bridge-for-all

If you can get the Netgear units, MCAB1001, they seemed to be the best available but are discountinued.

BTW - MOCA tends to be faster and more reliable than Ethernet over power lines. Plus you need an adapter at each device.
Thank you for your reply. I found this on Tivo's website:

Highslide JS

It looks like I would only need one adapter at the bedroom where Mini will be located.

All this assuming that my coax wiring is compatible with MoCA

EDIT: The image link above gave the wrong chart. Here is the full link: http://www.tivo.com/mytivo/howto/moc...ks=moca_vanity

Also, the above is if I get a new Premier 4. Those come with built-in MoCA bridge support.

AND, if the Mini comes with built-in MoCA support, just like the Premiere 4, no MoCA adapter will be needed!

Last edited by thyname : 10-12-2012 at 02:56 PM.
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Old 10-12-2012, 03:33 PM   #266
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Also, the above is if I get a new Premier 4. Those come with built-in MoCA bridge support.

AND, if the Mini comes with built-in MoCA support, just like the Premiere 4, no MoCA adapter will be needed!
I believe the info that was released is that the Mini does come with built-in MoCa support. However, unlike the Premier 4/4XL, it will not act like a MoCa bridge.

So you could use the Premiere 4 to bridge from ethernet to MoCa, then connect the Mini via MoCa. (The only thing you couldn't do it hook up other ethernet devices near the Mini to its ethernet port to get them on your network)
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Old 10-12-2012, 03:41 PM   #267
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So you could use the Premiere 4 to bridge from ethernet to MoCa, then connect the Mini via MoCa.
So, would I need a MoCA adapter to hook my Mini in my bedroom or not?

I am assuming no adapter is needed where the Premiere 4 is located (close to the cable modem and router)
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Old 10-12-2012, 03:48 PM   #268
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So, would I need a MoCA adapter to hook my Mini in my bedroom or not?

I am assuming no adapter is needed where the Premiere 4 is located (close to the cable modem and router)
Not for the mini itself. However if you have other IP based devices in the bedroom then they would require a MoCa adapter because the Mini does not function as a bridge. The Premiere 4 however does function as a bridge so you can connect it to a MoCa network and connect other devices to it's Ethernet connection and it will convert the data between the two.

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Old 10-12-2012, 03:51 PM   #269
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So, would I need a MoCA adapter to hook my Mini in my bedroom or not?

I am assuming no adapter is needed where the Premiere 4 is located (close to the cable modem and router)
No, from what we've been told, the Mini doesn't need a seperate MoCa adaptor.

You'd only need an adaptor in the bedroom if you had some additional ethernet device there that you wanted to connect over MoCa.
Edit: Or what Dan said. (Didn't refresh and see his post before replying)
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Old 10-12-2012, 03:59 PM   #270
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Thank you all for your knowledgeable replies and information!

It looks like the solution for me would be to get the Premiere 4 ( I currently have the two-tuner Premiere) and the Mini for my bedroom. Happy to learn that the purchase of a MoCA adapter is not required in this setup. I need the 4 tuners anyway.

Thanks again!
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