TiVo Community
TiVo Community
TiVo Community
Go Back   TiVo Community > Main TiVo Forums > TiVo Mini
TiVo Community
Reply
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 3 votes, 4.33 average.
Old 03-04-2013, 12:15 PM   #1471
compnurd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 951
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfh3 View Post
Does anyone know yet what outlets will have the Mini for sale on Wednesday?

I tried to find out from my local Best Buy if they will have it, but couldn't get much help from a CSR who insisted they already had it in stock and could buy it today (she was referring to the TiVo Stream, which I confirmed by the SKU).

So glad this marketing partnership with Best Buy is working so well ...
lol you expected good info from best buy
compnurd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 12:20 PM   #1472
atmuscarella
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Rochester NY
Posts: 3,803
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_smits View Post
You can download 1080p content from Amazon directly to your Tivo.

RedBox is great for what it is, but the downsides are obvious: poor selection (compared to local rental outlet or Netflix streaming), you are on the clock to watch and return or keep paying by the day, and you support the continued physical media structure. Don't forget when you show up at a Redbox to just return a disc and the person (or persons) in front of you take forever to decide which movie to rent. Redbox is inconvenient unless you already stop by a box on a daily basis -- who goes to Walgreens or the grocery story daily?

I'll take lower quality HD streaming or Amazon downloads over Redbox any day. Convenience is what I value.
I pretty much agree completely. Everything you said about Redbox is certainly true, I only use Redbox when it makes sense for me (I have 3 Redboxes locally) and I normally reserve on line ahead of time to remove some of the hassle.

Amazon downloads are the only way I can reliably do HD unfortunately I have also had several failures with Amazon downloads that required more time messing around getting the movie again than what I would have liked. Oh well everything has +s and -s.
__________________
atmuscarella
R.I.P. - 04/04 - Dish 510
09/05 - Humax T-800
R.I.P. - 08/06 - TiVo
05/08 - TiVo HD
06/08 - Panasonic 50PZ800U 50" Plazma!!
03/10 - Series 3
11/10 - Premiere
09/13 - Roamio
atmuscarella is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 01:37 PM   #1473
jmpage2
Registered User
 
jmpage2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by atmuscarella View Post
If I could actually stream HD media I might be more inclined to give up blu-ray.

But even if I could stream HD content high quality brand name blu-ray players with very good IP streaming can be purchased for under a $100. The savings in renting the best quality move from Red Box versus streaming nearly as good HD from Vudu pays for the player in about 35 movies.
Streaming is nowhere near the picture quality of Blu-ray, especially with larger size televisions were artifacts, edge enhancement and other symptoms of over-compression are more obvious.

And audio quality.... most streaming at best does low bitrate DD 5.1 or 640kbps DTS. HD audio, with a good surround sound system blows that crap out of the water.
jmpage2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 01:38 PM   #1474
jmpage2
Registered User
 
jmpage2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfh3 View Post
Does anyone know yet what outlets will have the Mini for sale on Wednesday?

I tried to find out from my local Best Buy if they will have it, but couldn't get much help from a CSR who insisted they already had it in stock and could buy it today (she was referring to the TiVo Stream, which I confirmed by the SKU).

So glad this marketing partnership with Best Buy is working so well ...
I don't think Wednesday is even confirmed for retail availability. For all we know it will only be available for pre-order on Wednesday.

If someone leaks a SKU number then you will be able to determine if your local BB will have it that day.
jmpage2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 02:02 PM   #1475
innocentfreak
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Florida
Posts: 8,467
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
I don't think Wednesday is even confirmed for retail availability. For all we know it will only be available for pre-order on Wednesday.

If someone leaks a SKU number then you will be able to determine if your local BB will have it that day.
I could also see it being initially only available from TiVo.

Best Buy usually has the page up for products just before launch with a crazy price, and we haven't seen one yet. There is also no Amazon or third party listing.

Didn't the Stream take a bit to show up at Best Buy?

Also with the Mini requiring the 4, XL4 or Elite, I could see it being only at Magnolia stores.
__________________
1 - TiVo Roamio Pro
2 - TiVo Premiere XL

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
innocentfreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 02:36 PM   #1476
aaronwt
HD Addict
 
aaronwt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Northern VA(Woodbridge)
Posts: 13,664
I see the option is there for the Mini in the drop down menu when you select "SHOP" on TiVo.com. But when you select the mini it says it can't find the page. So I guess it's ready to go, they just need to activate the page so you can see the option to purchase the mini.

I plan on waiting for BestBuy to get it since I will be using gift cards from there.

At least there is a TiVo Mini section now here at TiVo Community.

EDIT: And now TiVo.com changed things. I don't see a Mini listed on the drop down menu any more
__________________
Roamio Pro
TiVo Mini x3
Roamio Basic OTA
39TB unRAID1--53TB unRAID2--36TB unRAID3
XBL/PSN: WormholeXtreme

Last edited by aaronwt : 03-04-2013 at 03:39 PM.
aaronwt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 02:37 PM   #1477
jmpage2
Registered User
 
jmpage2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by innocentfreak View Post
I could also see it being initially only available from TiVo.

Best Buy usually has the page up for products just before launch with a crazy price, and we haven't seen one yet. There is also no Amazon or third party listing.

Didn't the Stream take a bit to show up at Best Buy?

Also with the Mini requiring the 4, XL4 or Elite, I could see it being only at Magnolia stores.
The Stream was up for pre-order a few days before the retail availability and like the Mini required the XL4/Elite.

It launched at retail with a "soft launch" which didn't really do much to advertise it, this in part might have been due to the fact that it needed the XL4/Elite, like the Mini.

I highly doubt the Mini will be retail available Wednesday, or even this week honestly. Perhaps TiVo will soft launch it on their website later this week with shipping in a week or two.
jmpage2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 03:58 PM   #1478
BigJimOutlaw
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,457
I don't recall seeing anything about the Stream requiring an XL4 at launch. People would have complained to high heaven.

Tivo had a pre-order contest for the Stream. They received their pre-orders on the day of general Tivo.com availability (Sept 6?). Retail availability (3rd parties on Amazon, BB) was around a few weeks to a month later.

Last edited by BigJimOutlaw : 03-04-2013 at 04:05 PM.
BigJimOutlaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 04:01 PM   #1479
jmpage2
Registered User
 
jmpage2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,883
Sorry, my mistake, I for some reason was under the impression that the stream required the XL4 or Elite, apparently it does not.

Even then, stream was pretty well "soft launched".
jmpage2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 04:20 PM   #1480
lgerbarg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Troy, NY, USA
Posts: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by crxssi View Post
Entirely plausible (since the modern ARM's are so much faster than even a few years ago), but not sure I believe it (1080P in software with no hardware decoding), though. Even my 3.6Ghz AMD struggles with 1080P without assistance. It is true that some deblocking routines are generic enough to work on either H264 or MPEG2, but it would be only a few parts of many.
My point about it having the hardware is not that you can share pieces of the h.264 and mpeg-2 pipelines (though in some cases you can since they are both iDCT based codecs). My point is that a lot of the video IP you can buy does both, and to rip out the MPEG2 parts involves substantial revisions to the decoder softcore that simply don't tend to make sense when you are laying out an SoC. Admittedly, ripping it out *might* make sense for Apple who has a bespoke SoC for their devices, but it would not make any sense for a merchant SoC (OMAP, Tegra, etc).

As for software, on ARM you need decently written NEON code, but you are greatly over estimating the computational complexity of MPEG-2. I don't know what is wrong with your 3.6Ghz AMD, but my 2.6Ghz quad core Intel decodes 1080p MPEG-2 reference streams at over 350FPS (or approximately ~90FPS per core, in other words, way faster than realtime).

Code:
ffmpeg  -i ~/Downloads/newmobcal1920_18mbps.ts  -f rawvideo - > /dev/null 
ffmpeg version 1.1 Copyright (c) 2000-2013 the FFmpeg developers
  built on Mar  4 2013 16:54:03 with Apple LLVM version 4.2 (clang-425.0.24) (based on LLVM 3.2svn)
  configuration: --prefix=/usr/local/Cellar/ffmpeg/1.1 --enable-shared --enable-pthreads --enable-gpl --enable-version3 --enable-nonfree --enable-hardcoded-tables --enable-avresample --cc=cc --host-cflags= --host-ldflags= --enable-libx264 --enable-libfaac --enable-libmp3lame --enable-libxvid
  libavutil      52. 13.100 / 52. 13.100
  libavcodec     54. 86.100 / 54. 86.100
  libavformat    54. 59.106 / 54. 59.106
  libavdevice    54.  3.102 / 54.  3.102
  libavfilter     3. 32.100 /  3. 32.100
  libswscale      2.  1.103 /  2.  1.103
  libswresample   0. 17.102 /  0. 17.102
  libpostproc    52.  2.100 / 52.  2.100
Input #0, mpegts, from '/Users/louis/Downloads/newmobcal1920_18mbps.ts':
  Duration: 00:01:00.70, start: 1.746644, bitrate: 19524 kb/s
  Program 1 
    Stream #0:0[0x31]: Video: mpeg2video (Main) ([2][0][0][0] / 0x0002), yuv420p, 1920x1080 [SAR 1:1 DAR 16:9], 29.97 fps, 29.97 tbr, 90k tbn, 59.94 tbc
    Stream #0:1[0x32]: Audio: ac3 ([129][0][0][0] / 0x0081), 48000 Hz, stereo, fltp, 384 kb/s
Output #0, rawvideo, to 'pipe:':
  Metadata:
    encoder         : Lavf54.59.106
    Stream #0:0: Video: rawvideo (I420 / 0x30323449), yuv420p, 1920x1080 [SAR 1:1 DAR 16:9], q=2-31, 200 kb/s, 90k tbn, 29.97 tbc
Stream mapping:
  Stream #0:0 -> #0:0 (mpeg2video -> rawvideo)
Press [q] to stop, [?] for help
[mpeg2video @ 0x7fab8a03ac00] warning: first frame is no keyframe
ac-tex damaged at 74 66.0 size= 5309550kB time=00:00:58.32 bitrate=745750.3kbits/s    
[mpeg2video @ 0x7fab8a03ac00] Warning MVs not available
[mpeg2video @ 0x7fab8a03ac00] concealing 240 DC, 240 AC, 240 MV errors in B frame
frame= 1821 fps=348 q=0.0 Lsize= 5531288kB time=00:01:00.76 bitrate=745750.2kbits/s    
video:5531288kB audio:0kB subtitle:0 global headers:0kB muxing overhead 0.000000%
You don't need to take my word for it, there are several vendors that will happily sell you MPEG-2 decoding middleware for ARM.
__________________
Louis Gerbarg
lgerbarg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 04:21 PM   #1481
innocentfreak
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Florida
Posts: 8,467
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJimOutlaw View Post
I don't recall seeing anything about the Stream requiring an XL4 at launch. People would have complained to high heaven.

Tivo had a pre-order contest for the Stream. They received their pre-orders on the day of general Tivo.com availability (Sept 6?). Retail availability (3rd parties on Amazon, BB) was around a few weeks to a month later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
Sorry, my mistake, I for some reason was under the impression that the stream required the XL4 or Elite, apparently it does not.

Even then, stream was pretty well "soft launched".
I forgot about the preorder contest.

I could see them doing the soft launch for the Mini. This would make sense especially when you consider it is rumored for the 6th and there still has yet to be a press release.

By doing a soft launch they get a smaller pool of initial testers I mean users who might find things that didn't occur in the beta.
__________________
1 - TiVo Roamio Pro
2 - TiVo Premiere XL

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
innocentfreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 04:32 PM   #1482
Mike-Wolf
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by socrplyr View Post
OTA is most likely not dead. Check Tivo's latest filings. They are requesting exemptions from Analog tuners for OTA. That suggests to me that they are probably staying in that game. At some point Tivo will stop updating the S4 platform. That is a given. It will most likely be when the S5 comes out or shortly thereafter.
Is the antenna OTA feature for analog signals or digital signals or both?
Mike-Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 04:34 PM   #1483
Mike-Wolf
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfh3 View Post
I'm pretty sure you're wrong

TiVo is not abandoning OTA users. The Q/Elite/Premiere4 exists because the cable partners wanted more tuners and no OTA support. The current hardware design provides for a total of 4 tuners, but to include OTA that would limit cable to 2, which is of no use to the MSOs.

I would be stunned if the next generation did not include a box that supports OTA in some configuration. I'm betting that there will be a multi tuner OTA/cable box in addition to any cable-only models.

And I'll bet the use of a Mini will be possible with any OTA host. It's very easy for TiVo to continue to effectively own the OTA DVR market - they aren't just going to abandon it.
Regarding the mini, doesn't that currently use one of the tuners? Would it at some point start using an IP streaming method instead?

Would love to start seeing MPEG4 or H264 encoding from the service providers but I'm sure that's a whole other beast in and of itself.

Last edited by Mike-Wolf : 03-04-2013 at 04:37 PM. Reason: grilled cheese.
Mike-Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 04:35 PM   #1484
Dan203
Super Moderator
 
Dan203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Nevada
Posts: 24,492
There is a version of VLC for iOS. It struggles with 1080i/p MPEG-2 on all iOS devices. I think the A6 in the iPad4 can decode most stuff, but it severely cuts battery life and it gets really hot.

Now whether or not the hardware decoder is capable of decoding MPEG-2 or not, I don't know. But it's not exposed via the API so it's not an option for developers.

It seems odd that Roku wouldn't support MPEG-2 if the hardware supported it since licensing is so cheap and they support playback of local, user supplied, video files where MPEG-2 is still widely used. As someone above mentioned even the single seat license on the Raspberry Pi is <$4 and in volume they're <$1.

In any case if the API doesn't support it then the only option is to do it in software. And the chip in the Roku isn't powerful enough to do it in software. So the only way TiVo could support streaming to a Roku would be to transcode to H.264, which requires a TiVo Stream that is currently $130. Roku + Stream = $230, might as well buy a Mini.
__________________
Dan Haddix
Super Moderator
Developer for VideoReDo
Dan203 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 04:39 PM   #1485
Dan203
Super Moderator
 
Dan203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Nevada
Posts: 24,492
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike-Wolf View Post
Is the antenna OTA feature for analog signals or digital signals or both?
Digital only. The purpose of the waiver is to allow them to exclude analog encoding hardware. Adding enough chips to encode 4-6 analog channels at once is expensive, complicated and eats up quite a bit of power.
__________________
Dan Haddix
Super Moderator
Developer for VideoReDo
Dan203 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 04:44 PM   #1486
Dan203
Super Moderator
 
Dan203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Nevada
Posts: 24,492
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike-Wolf View Post
Regarding the mini, doesn't that currently use one of the tuners? Would it at some point start using an IP streaming method instead?

Would love to start seeing MPEG4 or H264 encoding from the service providers but I'm sure that's a whole other beast in and of itself.
It is IP based. The limitation at launch will be that if you enable live TV support for the Mini it will permanently allocate that tuner for live TV and remove it from the pool of tuners available to the local TiVo for recording even if the Mini isn't actively being used. A future update will allow the Mini to dynamically requisition a tuner from the TiVo only when needed. And when the Mini is idle the TiVo will have access to all tuners for recording and local live TV viewing.

Some cable companies have started broadcasting channels in H.264. They're typically specialty HD channels right now because the cable company has to ensure that the equipment they have deployed can tune the channels as well. Pretty much all HD boxes support H.264, a lot of the older SD boxes do not. Until they replace all their deployed equipment with boxes capable of decoding H.264 they can not convert the majority of the channels. In either case the TiVo Premiere, and presumably the Mini, support H.264 already. So if your cable company makes the switch it will be seamless to you.
__________________
Dan Haddix
Super Moderator
Developer for VideoReDo
Dan203 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 04:51 PM   #1487
HazelW
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: No. Va
Posts: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
It is IP based. The limitation at launch will be that if you enable live TV support for the Mini it will permanently allocate that tuner for live TV and remove it from the pool of tuners available to the local TiVo for recording even if the Mini isn't actively being used. A future update will allow the Mini to dynamically requisition a tuner from the TiVo only when needed. And when the Mini is idle the TiVo will have access to all tuners for recording and local live TV viewing.
Can you manually disable the tuner? Say you only need it once or week or so, can you allocate it and easily de-allocate it after use?
HazelW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 04:55 PM   #1488
jmpage2
Registered User
 
jmpage2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by HazelW View Post
Can you manually disable the tuner? Say you only need it once or week or so, can you allocate it and easily de-allocate it after use?
You might be able to do that but it will probably be a headache. When you do the setup of the Mini it apparently prompts you for tuner allocation from the host TiVo.

So, if you set it up and say "no tuners" and then want to watch live TV at some point you will very likely have to run the guided setup again, which sounds like a royal PITA.
jmpage2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 04:59 PM   #1489
Dan203
Super Moderator
 
Dan203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Nevada
Posts: 24,492
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
You might be able to do that but it will probably be a headache. When you do the setup of the Mini it apparently prompts you for tuner allocation from the host TiVo.

So, if you set it up and say "no tuners" and then want to watch live TV at some point you will very likely have to run the guided setup again, which sounds like a royal PITA.
It's not that bad. The option to allocate the tuner is on the host DVR and can easily be turned on/off. If the option has been turned off and you try to access live TV via the Mini it simply prompts you saying there are no tuners available on the host.

However I do think I read somewhere that when you turn the option on/off it stops all current recordings, so you'll only want to do it if the host TiVo isn't actually recording anything at that moment.
__________________
Dan Haddix
Super Moderator
Developer for VideoReDo
Dan203 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 05:14 PM   #1490
Kingpcgeek
Couch Potato
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Basin of the Sun, AZ
Posts: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike-Wolf View Post
Is the antenna OTA feature for analog signals or digital signals or both?
What analog signals? Except for a very few low power stations there are no more analog TV signals OTA. An analog tuner would only be for cable.
Kingpcgeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 05:15 PM   #1491
crxssi
Veteran TiVo User
 
crxssi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,727
Quote:
Originally Posted by lgerbarg View Post
I don't know what is wrong with your 3.6Ghz AMD, but my 2.6Ghz quad core Intel decodes 1080p MPEG-2 reference streams at over 350FPS (or approximately ~90FPS per core, in other words, way faster than realtime).
Yikes, I realized after what I said about my AMD I was thinking transcoding, not decoding. My bad.... getting older sucks
__________________
Series 1-> Series 2-> DirecTiVo HD-> TiVo HD-> Premiere -> Roamio Pro
crxssi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 05:16 PM   #1492
jmpage2
Registered User
 
jmpage2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
It's not that bad. The option to allocate the tuner is on the host DVR and can easily be turned on/off. If the option has been turned off and you try to access live TV via the Mini it simply prompts you saying there are no tuners available on the host.

However I do think I read somewhere that when you turn the option on/off it stops all current recordings, so you'll only want to do it if the host TiVo isn't actually recording anything at that moment.
I don't record enough things concurrently that the loss of 1 tuner is really a big deal.... especially when they will be doing dynamic tuner allocation in a few months time.
jmpage2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 05:17 PM   #1493
crxssi
Veteran TiVo User
 
crxssi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,727
I hate that this thread was moved into a sub-forum. I really didn't want to follow another forum and liked that there was still one thread in the Premiere forum.

Oh well. :P
__________________
Series 1-> Series 2-> DirecTiVo HD-> TiVo HD-> Premiere -> Roamio Pro
crxssi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 05:20 PM   #1494
jmpage2
Registered User
 
jmpage2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by crxssi View Post
I hate that this thread was moved into a sub-forum. I really didn't want to follow another forum and liked that there was still one thread in the Premiere forum.

Oh well. :P
Considering that there will be numerous Mini related threads springing up soon it seems like the perfect thing to do. Probably less than 5% of Premiere owners have an XL4 or Elite so it makes far more sense to move an adjunct that only works with a couple of TiVo models and has a unique setup, network requirements, etc, to its own thread.
jmpage2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 05:49 PM   #1495
lgerbarg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Troy, NY, USA
Posts: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
It seems odd that Roku wouldn't support MPEG-2 if the hardware supported it since licensing is so cheap and they support playback of local, user supplied, video files where MPEG-2 is still widely used. As someone above mentioned even the single seat license on the Raspberry Pi is <$4 and in volume they're <$1.
It isn't really that surprising, retail sales channels are brutal. As a manufacturer you generally need to increase the cost of a product by $4 in order to offset a $1 increase in your BOM (in other words, your channel partners take 75% of the profit unless you are large enough to have some real pricing muscle). If you are selling a device for $49 you really need to be making it for $12.50 (25% of retail) to sell it to your distributer for $22.00 to sell it to the store for $25.00 (50% of retail). Adding $1 without offsetting it with an increase (which goes through all of those multipliers ends up cutting your margins by 10%. And since MPEG-2 licenses actually cost $2 at all quantities that would really be a 20% reduction in their profits, or a $8 increase in price to offset.

The lack of the an annual cap is also one of the reasons people don't include MPEG-2 in devices. On h.264 there is a maximum, so for all the big players like Apple, Google, MS, etc it is effectively free on an incremental basis, they just pay their ~$5,000,000 a year and move on. MPEG-2 would cost them for every device, which in Apple's case would by hundreds of millions of dollars a year.
__________________
Louis Gerbarg
lgerbarg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 06:32 PM   #1496
Dan203
Super Moderator
 
Dan203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Nevada
Posts: 24,492
Hmmm.... It's been a while since I looked at our MPEG-LA license. I thought it was lower for the decoder then the encoder, but obviously I was misremembering because that link says they're $2/ea.

That being said $2 still isn't much. I've seen $50 BluRay players at Wal-Mart and the BD specs require support for MPEG-2. I don't think the hardware in a $50 Roku is much different then that of a $50 BD player. And if the margins are really that thin then they could just charge the user a couple bucks for a special software upgrade to enable MPEG-2. Archos use to do that with some of their portable players. I think the reason they don't enable MPEG-2 has more to do with saving $2 for something they don't think they need, rather then margins being so thin that they can't afford to pay the $2 without increasing the retail price of the device.

In any case we've gone way off track here. Back to discussing the Mini.
__________________
Dan Haddix
Super Moderator
Developer for VideoReDo
Dan203 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 06:45 PM   #1497
aaronwt
HD Addict
 
aaronwt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Northern VA(Woodbridge)
Posts: 13,664
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
There is a version of VLC for iOS. It struggles with 1080i/p MPEG-2 on all iOS devices. I think the A6 in the iPad4 can decode most stuff, but it severely cuts battery life and it gets really hot.

Now whether or not the hardware decoder is capable of decoding MPEG-2 or not, I don't know. But it's not exposed via the API so it's not an option for developers.

It seems odd that Roku wouldn't support MPEG-2 if the hardware supported it since licensing is so cheap and they support playback of local, user supplied, video files where MPEG-2 is still widely used. As someone above mentioned even the single seat license on the Raspberry Pi is <$4 and in volume they're <$1.

In any case if the API doesn't support it then the only option is to do it in software. And the chip in the Roku isn't powerful enough to do it in software. So the only way TiVo could support streaming to a Roku would be to transcode to H.264, which requires a TiVo Stream that is currently $130. Roku + Stream = $230, might as well buy a Mini.
Doesn't the Roku2 hardware also support transcoding from DD+ to DD? But they don't pay for a license to enable that?

Oh... and on topic...I hope the Mini starts showing up on websites tomorrow so at least we can see that it will actually be available shortly.

I'm worried that if it is available at BestBuy initially, that each store will only have a small amount. So it will be sold out quickly. At least that is how it was when the Elite was released.
__________________
Roamio Pro
TiVo Mini x3
Roamio Basic OTA
39TB unRAID1--53TB unRAID2--36TB unRAID3
XBL/PSN: WormholeXtreme
aaronwt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 07:39 PM   #1498
Dan203
Super Moderator
 
Dan203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Nevada
Posts: 24,492
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
Doesn't the Roku2 hardware also support transcoding from DD+ to DD? But they don't pay for a license to enable that?
I don't know how DD+ works (yet), but I've been doing some work with DTS and it structured kind of cool. Basically every DTS frame, even DTS-MA lossless, contains a standard 5.1 DTS frame. Then at the end they tack on extra information for extra channels or the additional data they need to convert the standard DTS data back to lossless. So all you'd need to do to convert DTS-HD or DTS-MA to standard DTS is truncate the frames to only have the "core" data. If it's similar for DD+ then the "transcoding" would be nothing more then truncating a few buffers and no license would be required for that.
__________________
Dan Haddix
Super Moderator
Developer for VideoReDo
Dan203 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 09:15 PM   #1499
aaronwt
HD Addict
 
aaronwt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Northern VA(Woodbridge)
Posts: 13,664
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
I don't know how DD+ works (yet), but I've been doing some work with DTS and it structured kind of cool. Basically every DTS frame, even DTS-MA lossless, contains a standard 5.1 DTS frame. Then at the end they tack on extra information for extra channels or the additional data they need to convert the standard DTS data back to lossless. So all you'd need to do to convert DTS-HD or DTS-MA to standard DTS is truncate the frames to only have the "core" data. If it's similar for DD+ then the "transcoding" would be nothing more then truncating a few buffers and no license would be required for that.
I remember when it was introduced there was not a DD core. DtS made more sense in how it was done. Which I figured was why most titles ended up having DTS-MA on them instead of Dolby TrueHD. But since Dolby Atmos was launched it seems like more BD titles are coming with Dolby TrueHD now. But still nowhere near the amount that has DTS-MA.
__________________
Roamio Pro
TiVo Mini x3
Roamio Basic OTA
39TB unRAID1--53TB unRAID2--36TB unRAID3
XBL/PSN: WormholeXtreme
aaronwt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 10:07 PM   #1500
Bigg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hartford- New Haven CT
Posts: 3,380
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbiller View Post
TiVo's current Tier 2 cable operator deals will account for approximately 1.2 million households and 3 million subscribers by January 2015. They will conservatively contribute $50 million of high-margin revenue with virtually zero subscriber acquisition costs. Each one of these deals can be fielded in approximately 4 to 6 months and costs TiVo less than $1 million to deploy. Sometimes an MSO will pay TiVo up-front development costs but normally these deals are funded by TiVo and TiVo recoups the investment through the recurring service revenue.

Wow, that's pretty surprising. Imagine what a deal with a tier 1 MSO would be like! Although they would have to heavily customize it for the MSO.

I can't make any sense of those numbers, except for the revenue numbers. That's pretty impressive. Are those MSOs using TiVo as their only DVR solution, or is TiVo competing against Motorola and Sci Atlanta?
__________________
My Place: Premiere XL4 Lifetime 3/26/13 XFinity
3 TiVo Mini's on MoCA
Formerly Win MCE 3TB Ceton4 XFinity
Parents: XFinity Motorola AnyRoom DVR
80 HR Series 2 Lifetime 4/11/04 DEAD as of 11/2010
Bigg is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply
Forum Jump




Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Advertisements

TiVo Community
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media

(C) 2013 Magenium Solutions - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVoŽ is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not owned or operated by TiVo Inc.
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:01 PM.
OUR NETWORK: MyOpenRouter | TechLore | SansaCommunity | RoboCommunity | MediaSmart Home | Explore3DTV | Dijit Community | DVR Playground |