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Old 01-04-2013, 05:38 PM   #451
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The Mini was on public display at the Cable Show last spring and has been beta tested all fall, so I think it's a lock to "see" it again. I sure hope info on retail availability will be provided. Also I would hope for some Android Stream demos. In the past, it's true TiVo didn't use CES as much of a launch pad. But they've had quite a bit of personnel change and a more public booth this year, so anything is possible.
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Old 01-04-2013, 06:01 PM   #452
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The Mini was on public display at the Cable Show last spring and has been beta tested all fall, so I think it's a lock to "see" it again. I sure hope info on retail availability will be provided. Also I would hope for some Android Stream demos. In the past, it's true TiVo didn't use CES as much of a launch pad. But they've had quite a bit of personnel change and a more public booth this year, so anything is possible.
Are they actually making appointments though?

I wonder also if we might see new remotes from that deal with the one company to make universal remotes.
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Old 01-04-2013, 06:46 PM   #453
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You miss the point entirely. Most consumers could care less if their TV is piped in over a cable card or a satellite. Both Dish Network and DirecTV have multi room systems on the market being offered at attractive prices, contract or otherwise and TiVo continues to fumble.

You are against contracts which is fine, but most Americans could care less.
I thought some of the Tivo boxes had MoCA?

So you plug in coax to Tivos on both ends and you have networking between the two?

Presumably Tivo Mini will have MoCA or some kind of hard-wired networking port?
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:04 PM   #454
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I was wondering if you ever heard from them. It will be interesting then to see what if any news comes from TiVo this year.
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Old 01-05-2013, 10:17 AM   #455
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Thumbs up Excited for the Mini!

Wow! I haven't logged in since 2007! This is a super interesting topic.

I had a series 1 TiVo and then a series 2 for a while. When I moved to a home where we wanted multiple rooms, TiVo didn't really have a solid MVR feature set yet. So, I looked into other options and ended up building a SageTV DVR into my home server.

I've had the equivalent functionality to the expected TiVo Mini for years, and it's great. A small, efficient set top box at each TV that pulls its interface from my server. A tuner is only used by a particular box when live TV is being viewed. Otherwise the tuner pool is used for recordings as needed. One unified recording schedule and My Shows list.

The interface isn't as good as TiVo though and the Mini is making me re-interested in TiVo again.

Google bought Sage and killed it then turned it into the DVR portion of their fiber product in Kansas City. I don't have HD yet and am a bit wary of upgrading my server to accommodate.

I the past year, I also bought into Sonos for home audio, and its great.

Based on my experience with both Sage and Sonos, I see no reason why TiVo couldn't take some of the best of both worlds.
- having a Mini lock up a tuner seems silly; they should be runic ally allocated, like they are on a single box today
- each Mini interface should work like you're sitting in front of the main TiVo. If you're watching live TV and a scheduled recording pops up and needs that tuner, you should get the same kind of message
- I don't want a tuner built into the box
- I don't want to pay for a subscription
- if this this cold work with my Roku boxes, that'd be great

I find arguments that having cooperative scheduling and a unified My Shows list to be uncompelling. If you're not syncing the actual media files themselves, the meta data involved with sending recording schedules and recorded media lists is relatively small. Changes only need to be synced when they happen, not constantly. And given that most TiVos have at least 2 tuners how, over recording if a box drops off the network can be handled gracefully. Or all boxes come back online, given the metadata, TiVo can detect that two recordings are the same and show only one copy in the My Shows list. If there are conflicts and not enough tuners, they get resolved based on recording priority, just like today.

If someone's home network is unreliable, they have to take some responsibility for that. I know that given the current consumer knowledge of things, that may be difficult, but I see at TiVo only really supports MVR through some sort of wired connection to be the correct choice.

I've read many people's concerns about having a single point of failure if you have only 1 TiVo and it goes down. That's happened to me a few times over the years; I'm running a Windows 7 system and sometimes things happen. The most recent issue was that my IR blaster that controls my cable box malfunctioned while I was away and we didn't get a weeks worth of recordings. That's a pain in the butt. But, we caught up with what we missed with a combination of Apple, Amazon, and Netflix.

In the past, I had more issues with my TiVos getting locked up for whatever reason than issues with my Sage server. I think I get one real outage a year with my current server.

I terms of losing recordings, I've been lucky enough to have high reliability of my hard drives. I have a 1 TB drive that I don't even bother to back up. I do have my music and photos and movies on a RAID which I back up to my NAS though.

How reliable have people found the hardware of the current TiVo generations? My concern with moving back to TiVo is having my content locked into the TiVo box that I can't extract if I want to upgrade to a new TiVo or the unit dies or whatever.

I am lucky enough that my home was wired for phone with CAT 5, so I have a pretty robust home network and all of my boxes (with the exception of Sonos) are wired.

Also, I currently only have 1 tuner and we only miss a show or two occasionally. I guess we watch a lot less TV than a lot of people? I'm not sure what I'd do with 4 tuners!

Come on TiVo, I can't wait for the Mini. There's no way I'm buying multiple full TiVo boxes with their expensive hardware and subscription fees. I can justify the hardware investment in my server (which was in the $2000 range) due to its multi-tasking ability but couldn't do that for multiple rooms of TiVo.

I any case, thanks for reading my ramble.
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Old 01-05-2013, 10:38 AM   #456
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Haven't been here since '07 and not using HD... doesn't really say much for keeping up with progress, let alone criticizing a vendor actually delivering solutions people happily use everyday.
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Old 01-06-2013, 11:04 AM   #457
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Are they actually making appointments though?
Engadget Ben's got a meeting setup, so that's a good thing. I've repinged them to see if we can set something up - but I'm leaving the show early, have very few slots at this point, and am obviously low on the totem pole with the new regime.
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Old 01-07-2013, 12:07 PM   #458
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I thought some of the Tivo boxes had MoCA?

So you plug in coax to Tivos on both ends and you have networking between the two?

Presumably Tivo Mini will have MoCA or some kind of hard-wired networking port?
Yes the 4 tuner Premiere models (4 XL, 4, Elite) all have Moca, though AFAIK none of the 2 tuner TiVos do.

And based on what TiVo's shown it's expected that the Mini will have both MoCA and ethernet (although unlike the 4 tuner Premieres it reportedly can't act as an Ethernet to MoCA bridge; it can use either but can't send traffic between them)
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:00 PM   #459
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As long as they don't try to charge the ridiculous fees for using the Mini.

As it turns out, I saw a Tivo ad on another forum (having nothing to do with tech) and I clicked it to see what their whole home solution was:

Premier DVR to Premier
Premier to PC
Premier to mobile devices via Stream.

Of course I knew it would be an old ad. Hopefully they will have a good story this week.

Otherwise, I may have to re-up with DirecTV for their Genie or the rumored HR44, which may have wireless networking.
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Old 01-07-2013, 02:34 PM   #460
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I thought some of the Tivo boxes had MoCA?

So you plug in coax to Tivos on both ends and you have networking between the two?

Presumably Tivo Mini will have MoCA or some kind of hard-wired networking port?
I think you're missing the point. I was pointing out that most customers could care less if they have a satellite dish or have a coaxial cable coming out of the wall when it comes to how their entertainment is delivered from a provider into their residence.

At the end of the day, the satellite providers all now have "whole home" solutions while TiVo struggles in this area.

And yes, some TiVos have MoCA, but that's not at all what was under discussion.
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:08 AM   #461
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Tivo has a very good whole home solution, many just do not like the pricing. Our home currelty has 5 displays connected to 3 Tivos. I can watch any content in any room and schedule recordings from any room. Also can watch any video or listen to any music on our network from any tv in the house. Also every tv uses the same style remote and has the same user interface.

Sounds like a whole home solution to me.

The mini will just make more options for building a whole home solution cheaper but with less capability. Adding a premiere for a second screen currently costs about $450. Adding a mini will cost in the range of $200 (WAG) but will not have a local tuner or recording capablity. The mini will also not support households using OTA broadcast tv.
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:15 AM   #462
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Adding a premiere for a second screen currently costs about $450. Adding a mini will cost in the range of $200 (WAG) but will not have a local tuner or recording capablity.
The cost comparison is not that simple in some markets. Many of us in Comcast land have to pony up an additional $8 or so per month for the "additional digital outlet" fee associated with each CableCARD device, so the combination of a 4-tuner "base unit" plus mini(s) is less expensive. I'd much rather pay $200 ONCE for the TV in the exercise room than $450 PLUS $8 per month ad infinitum.
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:34 AM   #463
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The cost comparison is not that simple in some markets. Many of us in Comcast land have to pony up an additional $8 or so per month for the "additional digital outlet" fee associated with each CableCARD device, so the combination of a 4-tuner "base unit" plus mini(s) is less expensive. I'd much rather pay $200 ONCE for the TV in the exercise room than $450 PLUS $8 per month ad infinitum.
Comcast just raised it to $10 a month in my area so I'm definitely in the market for a couple TiVo minis!
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:34 AM   #464
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Tivo has a very good whole home solution, many just do not like the pricing. Our home currelty has 5 displays connected to 3 Tivos. I can watch any content in any room and schedule recordings from any room. Also can watch any video or listen to any music on our network from any tv in the house. Also every tv uses the same style remote and has the same user interface.

Sounds like a whole home solution to me.

The mini will just make more options for building a whole home solution cheaper but with less capability. Adding a premiere for a second screen currently costs about $450. Adding a mini will cost in the range of $200 (WAG) but will not have a local tuner or recording capablity. The mini will also not support households using OTA broadcast tv.
You have a different definition of a whole home solution than I do. For what you have to be a "whole home" solution in my eyes, you would at a minimum need integrated schedule management between all of those different tuners.

I think TiVo clearly understands that users like yourself who will buy many TiVos and manually manage recordings among all of them are in the slim minority.... but they DO have many users who would like to access the content from a central TiVo in other rooms of the house... hence the TiVo Mini.
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:35 AM   #465
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No TiVo Mini on display last night at Digital Experience. I assume they'll talk it about on the CES Show Floor, but I'm guessing no major announcement at this point. Bummer.
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:41 AM   #466
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The cost comparison is not that simple in some markets. Many of us in Comcast land have to pony up an additional $8 or so per month for the "additional digital outlet" fee associated with each CableCARD device, so the combination of a 4-tuner "base unit" plus mini(s) is less expensive. I'd much rather pay $200 ONCE for the TV in the exercise room than $450 PLUS $8 per month ad infinitum.
You could always connect the 2-tuner Tivo to ota and stream between it and a 4-tuner cable only Tivo. Use Tivo Desktop (or your prefered 3rd party software) on an older dual-core cpu pc, connect to a third set and there's a whole home solution for you. Sure it's pricier, but at least you'll have 6-tuners to play with and still only pay for one outlet.
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:24 AM   #467
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I can honestly say that DirecTV has my full attention right now. I'm currently a Comcast subscriber with two lifetime Series 3s. I also have one comcast DVR. We pay over $150 month for triple play (phone/cable/internet) with no "pay" channels.

With cable-card fees going up, and our desire to have TVs in some more rooms (kids are old enough now to have their own), we're looking at a big expense to replace our Series 3s with a premier 4, and a bunch of (mythical?) tivo minis...

We could cover the entire house with a DirecTV subscription, and break about even (keeping phone and internet with comcast) monthly. Surely, we'd have to re-think things when the 2 year agreement is up, because the fees skyrocket...but technology changes fast enough that that isn't much of a concern.

So, we'd be leaving Tivo (very sadly, since I've been a customer since the series 1), and leaving Comcast (gladly) at least for TV services.
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:41 AM   #468
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we're looking at a big expense to replace our Series 3s with a premier 4, and a bunch of (mythical?) tivo minis...

Many people are waiting for the Tivo Minis to arrive. Just today I read that Verizon FIOS is releasing a whole-house media server with 6 tuners that can use set tops or xboxes or tablets or other devices for viewing content.

Not to beat a dead horse, but it would be great if Tivo could find a distinguishing feature to draw new customers in and keep them as customers. Instead, they are playing catch-up to everyone else in the market.
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:01 AM   #469
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The cost comparison is not that simple in some markets. Many of us in Comcast land have to pony up an additional $8 or so per month for the "additional digital outlet" fee associated with each CableCARD device, so the combination of a 4-tuner "base unit" plus mini(s) is less expensive. I'd much rather pay $200 ONCE for the TV in the exercise room than $450 PLUS $8 per month ad infinitum.
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Comcast just raised it to $10 a month in my area so I'm definitely in the market for a couple TiVo minis!
Does Comcast charge the same additional fee per cable box? If not have you tried filing a comment to the FCC, especially since Comcast reports the CableCARD fee as just the fee for the CableCARD without the digital outlet fee.
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:42 AM   #470
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You already know this, I think - Comcast charges their bogus $10 outlet fee per box or card, then we get a measly $2.50 credit or so for using a card (so $10 each box vs. $7.50 a card). They're trying to say that renting an STB only costs $2.50 a month in other words, and the rest is just made-up profit.

Yes, some of us here have filed complaints with the FCC about this. Yes, this is why some of us here want to use Minis, or an HTPC with extenders, or anything to reduce the card count.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:23 PM   #471
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No TiVo Mini on display last night at Digital Experience. I assume they'll talk it about on the CES Show Floor, but I'm guessing no major announcement at this point. Bummer.
Please keep us updated in any event. All I could find was a press release from TiVo Research & Analytics breaking down how people fast-forward through commercials. That and everyone's favorite TiVo ambassador Tim Tebow is at CES hawking a line of headphones for some other company.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:58 PM   #472
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Engadget has a hands on which really tells you nothing.
http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/08/t...nder-hands-on/
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:00 PM   #473
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Engadget has a hands on which really tells you nothing.
http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/08/t...nder-hands-on/
no kidding. we need some details.
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:19 PM   #474
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Tivo has a very good whole home solution, many just do not like the pricing. Our home currelty has 5 displays connected to 3 Tivos. I can watch any content in any room and schedule recordings from any room. Also can watch any video or listen to any music on our network from any tv in the house. Also every tv uses the same style remote and has the same user interface.

Sounds like a whole home solution to me.

The mini will just make more options for building a whole home solution cheaper but with less capability. Adding a premiere for a second screen currently costs about $450. Adding a mini will cost in the range of $200 (WAG) but will not have a local tuner or recording capablity. The mini will also not support households using OTA broadcast tv.
Why won't it support households with OTA? If it can be used with a two tuner Premiere, then wouldn't it have access to anything it records.
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:21 PM   #475
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Engadget has a hands on which really tells you nothing.
http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/08/t...nder-hands-on/
Yes, isn't it the same stuff we saw before?
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:32 PM   #476
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Yes, isn't it the same stuff we saw before?
No, it had no name last time. Now it is officially branded as the Tivo Mini on the box.
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:35 PM   #477
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did we know this as a fact already? is this support article new? or was this support article before they mentioned that they will look at dynamic tunning? http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/...5#instructions

Quote:
You can stream recordings from any 2-tuner Premiere series box, but you will be unable to set up your TiVo Mini without a 4-tuner TiVo DVR.
if this is new and they are confirming that a 4 tuner model is needed, im out.
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:41 PM   #478
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Someone in the Engadget comments linked to the following: http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2395

This is a bummer. Turns out that you need a 4-tuner box to set it all up. That's pretty annoying. I bought my parents a TiVo Premiere w/ Lifetime service last xmas in hopes that they could add some minis to their house, once the minis were released.
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:44 PM   #479
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engadget updated:

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The TiVo Mini is expected to ship this Spring, and the price is still yet to be determined. At launch, the Mini will take over one of the four tuners of the XL4, but dynamic tuner allocation is on the road map. The XL4 will support two Minis and can work with them both at the same time, and you can easily configure the Mini to switch to any TiVo in your house. The experience is almost identical to that of the Premiere, except its much faster. The only missing features are the Premiere's Live TV window in the menus and not all the streaming apps that the Premiere has will make it to the Mini -- have to wait for launch for a list.

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Old 01-08-2013, 01:45 PM   #480
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did we know this as a fact already? is this support article new? or was this support article before they mentioned that they will look at dynamic tunning? http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/...5#instructions

if this is new and they are confirming that a 4 tuner model is needed, im out.
It's been known that it was a 4-tuner Tivo accessory. It was only the community's hope that it would support 2-tuner boxes equally from the start.

Edit: But as we now know, full 2-tuner support is still on the roadmap.

Quote:
Why won't it support households with OTA? If it can be used with a two tuner Premiere, then wouldn't it have access to anything it records.
As a 4-tuner Tivo accessory, by default it doesn't fully support OTA since 4-tuner boxes don't have OTA. However, if someone has a 4-tuner box AND a 2-tuner box, then the Mini can stream recorded content from the 2-tuner box too as a standard MRS client. But a 4-tuner host box is necessary for setup.

As Aero just pointed out, the Engadet article was updated. Full 2-tuner support is still on the roadmap (when dynamic tuner allocation is implemented.)

Spring release.

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