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Old 08-11-2012, 09:57 PM   #1
oinkaroonie
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Question Kickstart is unresponsive

Our TiVo (HD -- TCD652160) restarted yesterday and got stuck on the Welcome! Powering up... boot screen. It never gets beyond that.

Over the past 24 hours, I've immersed myself in the collective Internet knowledge, trying to figure out how to diagnose my problem. Finally, I found the Kickstart codes over at weaknees (sorry, I'm a noob and can't post the link...).

My suspicion was the disk, so I tried code 54 to get into the SMART diagnostics. The problem is that I get the amber and red LEDs when I press the remote's pause, and after entering the code the LEDs turn off, but then nothing happens. Nothing. Still the same boot screen.

I figure that either the disk drive is so broken that the TiVo OS isn't getting loaded, or (since I suspect the Kickstart codes are contained in the boot ROM) the CPU is fried.

There's no serial connection on my box, so I can't get into the console terminal in any way I can figure out. Is there a serial connector inside the box?

I fear my only hope is to send the TiVo in for service, but would like to attempt to revive it on my own. Any ideas?
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Old 08-11-2012, 10:12 PM   #2
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You will be told to check power supply first. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=479176
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Old 08-11-2012, 10:19 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannonz View Post
You will be told to check power supply first.
I have power. The LED next to the power one flickers green faintly on startup as if it's showing disk access. I have the boot screen. I get the kickstart LEDs (amber and red) which extinguish after entering the kickstart code.

I will check the power supply, but doubt that's the issue. (But thanks for the quick response!)

Will report back on my PS status.
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Old 08-11-2012, 10:23 PM   #4
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You have to open it and look at the capacitors on power supply, look for bulging top(s)
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Old 08-11-2012, 10:45 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannonz View Post
You have to open it and look at the capacitors on power supply, look for bulging top(s)
Yes, I know. I read the thread you referenced.

The power supply is healthy. While it was open, I could feel the disk drive coming out of head-park and making accesses.

After the amber light blink, The disk goes into a pattern that sounds like it's damaged: seek, seek, pause... seek, seek, pause... seek, seek, reset heads, pause... over and over again.

So now I'm actually thinking it's a bad drive.

The list of drives I found that are compatible with my TiVo (again at weaknees) are not available anymore. Can somebody point me to a current list? My first choice would be to purchase a copy of InstantCake and do it myself; my second choice would be to buy a preformatted drive from dvrupgrade.
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Old 08-11-2012, 10:47 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by oinkaroonie View Post
I have power. The LED next to the power one flickers green faintly on startup as if it's showing disk access. I have the boot screen. I get the kickstart LEDs (amber and red) which extinguish after entering the kickstart code.

I will check the power supply, but doubt that's the issue. (But thanks for the quick response!)

Will report back on my PS status.
Having power is not necessarily the same as having good, clean, spec meeting power.

Not getting beyond the first welcome screen (which is on the motherboard and not the hard drive), and not being able to get a KickStart to work indicates a problem with the motherboard and the hard drive not being able properly to communicate with each other.

But that's the what and we don't yet know the why.

Take the 160GB Western Digital drive out of the TiVo.

Search for it's model number (from sticker on top of drive) at WD site.

When you get the results page, click on the download link on the left and then download the image file that you can burn as an image onto a cd-r to get a bootable cd with WD's diagnostic software on it.

Set a computer up to boot first from a cd, connect the TiVo's drive to the computer, and boot with the WD cd.

Run the short test and then the long one.


While you've got the TiVo open, carefully inspect the capacitors on the power supply.

There are several threads around here about S2 and S3 power supplies and "capacitor plague".

Let us know if you find any caps with the least amount of bulge (it'll probably be the one hiding under the heat sink overhang), and let us know how the WD drive tests went.

And go to

http://www.mfslive.org

and download the image file for the MFS Live cd v1.4 and download the WinMFS program.

You may have need of them.
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Old 08-11-2012, 10:53 PM   #7
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The disk diagnostic sounds like a good project for tomorrow afternoon, unitron. I'll report back.

No bulges on any of the caps in the PS.
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Old 08-11-2012, 11:20 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by oinkaroonie View Post
The disk diagnostic sounds like a good project for tomorrow afternoon, unitron. I'll report back.

No bulges on any of the caps in the PS.
Try reseating the combo data/power plug in the drive.

Can you put your fingertips on the drive and feel it spin up when you first apply power to the TiVo?
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Old 08-11-2012, 11:23 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
Try reseating the combo data/power plug in the drive.
Already did that; no change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
Can you put your fingertips on the drive and feel it spin up when you first apply power to the TiVo?
Yup.

I'll let you know what the diagnostic tells me tomorrow.
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Old 08-12-2012, 12:24 AM   #10
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I'll bet on the hard drive being the culprit in this case.

If that happens to be, don't waste your money on InstantCake. You can DIY with WinMFS or the MFS Live boot CD (http://www.mfslive.org/) with an image provided by a generous forum member here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=388695

Search that thread for TCD652 and you should find an image. If not, ask. I'm sure one would be provided.
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Old 08-12-2012, 12:46 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve614 View Post
I'll bet on the hard drive being the culprit in this case.

If that happens to be, don't waste your money on InstantCake. You can DIY with WinMFS or the MFS Live boot CD (http://www.mfslive.org/) with an image provided by a generous forum member here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=388695

Search that thread for TCD652 and you should find an image. If not, ask. I'm sure one would be provided.
I can hook him up with an S3 HD image, but the odds of power supply problems just bad enough to cause other problems in an S2 or S3 are pretty good.
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Old 08-12-2012, 05:51 PM   #12
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Looks like it's a bad disk...

Quote:
Test Option: QUICK TEST
Model Number: WDC WD1600AVJS-63WNA0
Unit Serial Number: WD-WCAS2E693823
Firmware Number: 58.01D58
Capacity: 160.04 GB
SMART Status: PASS
Test Result: FAIL
Test Error Code: 06-Quick Test on drive 1 did not complete! Status code = 07 (Failed read test element), Failure Checkpoint = 65 (Error Log Test) SMART self-test did not complete on drive 1!
Test Time: 16:32:35, August 12, 2012

Test Option: EXTENDED TEST
Model Number: WDC WD1600AVJS-63WNA0
Unit Serial Number: WD-WCAS2E693823
Firmware Number: 58.01D58
Capacity: 160.04 GB
SMART Status: PASS
Test Result: FAIL
Test Error Code: 08-Too many bad sectors detected.
Test Time: 16:47:13, August 12, 2012
Next step: what drive should I replace it with?
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Old 08-12-2012, 09:11 PM   #13
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Looks like it's a bad disk...



Next step: what drive should I replace it with?
Do you have a spare 1TB you can use temporarily?
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Old 08-12-2012, 10:07 PM   #14
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Quote:
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Do you have a spare 1TB you can use temporarily?
Unfortunately no. I just researched the disks listed in the TiVo HD FAQ for current pricing, and found that 500GB is slightly less than $100, and 1TB is slightly less than $200. We were fine with the 160GB, so I'll probably go with a 500GB. The ST3500414CS has the best subjective sound rating.

Any opinions on which brand is currently most reliable (I know this changes from month to month)?
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Old 08-12-2012, 11:04 PM   #15
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You can get already formatted 1 TB for $130. I got both my 1TB's from him for my DT's no problems. http://www.ebay.com/itm/TiVo-S3-Seri...item4aa7ab76a5
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Old 08-12-2012, 11:04 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oinkaroonie View Post
Unfortunately no. I just researched the disks listed in the TiVo HD FAQ for current pricing, and found that 500GB is slightly less than $100, and 1TB is slightly less than $200. We were fine with the 160GB, so I'll probably go with a 500GB. The ST3500414CS has the best subjective sound rating.

Any opinions on which brand is currently most reliable (I know this changes from month to month)?
If you're talking about the list here:

Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=370784

it's pretty badly out of date and if you can find any of those models you'll probably have to pay a pretty steep premium.


I'm using a WD20EADS in an HD, but good luck finding one of those now.

A lot of people seem to have successfully used a WD20EARS in Premieres, but again, good luck finding one.

The WD20EURS is still available and some success has been reported with it.


The reason I ask about a 1TB is my "middleman" approach to ultimately winding up on a 2TB via jmfs without any of the partitions being larger than 1TB and with a larger than stock swap partition.


The main two jmfs threads

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=462179


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=455968


can be checked, especially the more recent pages, for success or failure stories with various drives.

If you're going to be spending in the neighborhood of $100, you should get at least 1TB out of it, if not 2TB.
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Old 08-12-2012, 11:25 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
If you're talking about the list here:

Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=370784

it's pretty badly out of date and if you can find any of those models you'll probably have to pay a pretty steep premium.


I'm using a WD20EADS in an HD, but good luck finding one of those now.

A lot of people seem to have successfully used a WD20EARS in Premieres, but again, good luck finding one.

The WD20EURS is still available and some success has been reported with it.


.
The ones I got from uoph are WD10EADS don't know if he uses same for series 3.
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Old 08-12-2012, 11:45 PM   #18
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Newegg has a Hitachi GST Deskstar 7K1000.C 0F10383 (1TB, 7200RPM, 32MB Cache, SATA 3.0Gb/s) for just under $70. Looks like good specs for a DVR... Thoughts?
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Old 08-13-2012, 02:04 AM   #19
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The ones I got from uoph are WD10EADS don't know if he uses same for series 3.
I saw somewhere where the 10EADS, previously non-AF, is now an advanced format drive.

If there were ever a time when hard drive manufacturers could be trusted, that time has passed.
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:06 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by oinkaroonie View Post
Newegg has a Hitachi GST Deskstar 7K1000.C 0F10383 (1TB, 7200RPM, 32MB Cache, SATA 3.0Gb/s) for just under $70. Looks like good specs for a DVR... Thoughts?
Just ordered this one. I'll report back in a few days.
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Old 08-14-2012, 08:40 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve614 View Post
I'll bet on the hard drive being the culprit in this case.

If that happens to be, don't waste your money on InstantCake. You can DIY with WinMFS or the MFS Live boot CD (http://www.mfslive.org/) with an image provided by a generous forum member here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=388695

Search that thread for TCD652 and you should find an image. If not, ask. I'm sure one would be provided.
I can hook him up with an S3 HD image, but the odds of power supply problems just bad enough to cause other problems in an S2 or S3 are pretty good.
The drive is arriving Thursday. Should I use an image recommended by steve614, or one of unitron's? If the latter, where do I get it?
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Old 08-15-2012, 03:17 AM   #22
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The drive is arriving Thursday. Should I use an image recommended by steve614, or one of unitron's? If the latter, where do I get it?
There's a thread around here somewhere entitled "Need an image, don't PM me".

(Long, long ago there was a previous one that said "PM me". It should be considered inactive and out of date)

If you find that thread and search it for me and for TCD652160, you should come up with a post with a couple of dropbox links.

I'm making you search for it so that you'll have a sense of accomplishment.

Speaking of dropbox, if you ask me to send you an invite to open a free account with them, we both get extra free space.
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Old 08-15-2012, 07:08 AM   #23
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Quote:
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There's a thread around here somewhere entitled "Need an image, don't PM me".

(Long, long ago there was a previous one that said "PM me". It should be considered inactive and out of date)

If you find that thread and search it for me and for TCD652160, you should come up with a post with a couple of dropbox links.
That'd probably be this post -- thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
I'm making you search for it so that you'll have a sense of accomplishment.
I already have a sense of accomplishment from what I've learned the past few days!

Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
Speaking of dropbox, if you ask me to send you an invite to open a free account with them, we both get extra free space.
I already have a dropbox account -- sorry...

Now I'm all set for my new disk to arrive tomorrow. Again, many thanks!
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Old 08-15-2012, 07:18 AM   #24
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That'd probably be this post -- thanks!


I already have a sense of accomplishment from what I've learned the past few days!


I already have a dropbox account -- sorry...

Now I'm all set for my new disk to arrive tomorrow. Again, many thanks!
In the email notifying me of this post, the link you provide is

http://www.cessna-pilots.net/forums/...e=0#Post218982

instead of

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...01#post8831301

which actually shows up here on the site.

Do you know anything about the cessna pilots thing, or is somebody screwing with my email?
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Old 08-15-2012, 07:47 AM   #25
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Do you know anything about the cessna pilots thing, or is somebody screwing with my email?
I initially copy/pasted the wrong link from my clipboard; I immediately edited it. So the post is now correct... (yes, I am a Cessna pilot )

Just for grins, I tried doing a backup of my bad drive, and it was successful. So when I get the new drive tomorrow I'll first try a disk copy from bad to good. Secondly I'll try restoring my image. If all else fails, I'll use your image file.

Getting excited as I near the finish line...
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Old 08-15-2012, 07:56 AM   #26
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I initially copy/pasted the wrong link from my clipboard; I immediately edited it. So the post is now correct... (yes, I am a Cessna pilot )

Just for grins, I tried doing a backup of my bad drive, and it was successful. So when I get the new drive tomorrow I'll first try a disk copy from bad to good. Secondly I'll try restoring my image. If all else fails, I'll use your image file.

Getting excited as I near the finish line...
When you say bad to good, you mean bad to previously unused with nothing on it to worry about losing, right?
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Old 08-15-2012, 08:41 AM   #27
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When you say bad to good, you mean bad to previously unused with nothing on it to worry about losing, right?
Yes. Bad meaning the original WD1600 with all the SMART errors that seems to have morphed into a read-only drive. Good meaning the 1TB unformatted Hitachi Deskstar scheduled to arrive from Newegg tomorrow.

Thanks for looking over my shoulder. The more eyes, the better.
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Old 08-17-2012, 09:43 AM   #28
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I received the Hitachi drive yesterday, so began my Tivo ressurection last night.

The Hitachi GST Deskstar 7K1000.C 0F10383 doesn't have AAM. So the drive's noise is what it is. Turns out it's not objectionable to me, but your mileage may vary.

Plan A: First, I tried copying the original drive to the new drive with MfsCopy. It stalled out at the beginning of the Partition 9 copy and never finished. I let it sit for a couple of hours, then canceled the copy.

Plan B: I tried restoring the truncated backup of the original drive to the new one. It complained about Error writing inode 0. I tried this a few times with the same result. So the backup from the original drive was unusable.

Plan C: I restored from unitron's truncated backup, and was successful. Time to go through the entire setup procedure, but my Tivo was alive! (Thanks, unitron!)

The Tivo seems back to normal, except that it had to reboot once after the setup because it reported that it found a hardware problem. No reboots since. Also, it can't find the Tivo service over the network; I had to use the phone line. Network used to work. I'll troubleshoot that piece tonight.

So far, a thumbs up for the Hitachi drive.
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Old 08-17-2012, 11:01 PM   #29
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Unitron, your image somehow put some recording info on my box. Every time I went to the Now Playing list, I'd get the error 51 indicating I had data from another box on mine. A C&DE cleaned that problem up.

The networking issue is really weird. I actually have a connection with Tivo, but my box is cutting the conversation short. It's initiating an SSL (encrypted) connection with the Tivo server on port 443 (the standard HTTPS port).

My box negotiates with the server, the server asks for my box's security certificate, and it verifies my certificate. That all looks normal.

Then my Tivo box sends some data (I can't see what it is, because it's encrypted) and the server sends some data back. After that first exchange, my box notifies the server that it's closing the connection. Then my Tivo notifies me that there was a problem with the Internet connection.

The phone connection works, but there's something squirrelly about the internet one. Any ideas?
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Old 08-18-2012, 06:42 AM   #30
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Running C&DE is always necessary when you use an image from another TiVo.

On the network issue, you may have to force it to renew its security certificate. Go online and turn off transfers & downloads. Wait a few hours for their servers to sync up and force a daily call. Once the TiVoToGo status in the System Information screen reads "i,i,i" you can reverse the whole process until it shows "a,a,a".
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