Confused. Is it an Elite, XL4 or Premiere 4?

overFEDEXed · 08-07-2012, 08:04 PM

I called Tivo to do a change of ownership on an eBayed, LT HD.

The rep told me that in a month or two, Tivo was going to replace the XL4 with a "Premiere 4". He said that it would have four tuners and Moca but only a 500GB hard drive. He also said that WE could purchase it for $250. Isn't that the Q for RCN subscribers?

Are they going to offer the Elite/XL4 to us, with a 500GB hard drive, sell it for $250 and call it "Premiere 4"?

The rep said that they had a meeting about this two days ago and that they never told them NOT to tell any customers so.....

I have had Tivo's forever it seems and I have dealt with them many, many times but, this sounds strange to me. I'm sure that he has his facts mixed up but this is what he told me.

innocentfreak · 08-07-2012, 08:28 PM

That is the Q so maybe they mixed it up? I could potentially see it though if RCN needs more and they decide to jump up a tier to bring costs down.

Dan203 · 08-08-2012, 03:02 AM

That could be why they changed the name to XL4. They have a Premiere, a Premiere XL and a Premiere XL4. If they add a Premiere 4 then it will complete the line.

Dan

drebbe · 08-08-2012, 06:15 AM

I was thinking the same thing. I presume this new model would also work with the IP STB that is to be released in the same time frame. Previously the IP STB was initially only going to work with the XL4 since the initial version of the software supporting the IP STB required one of the tuners in the XL4 to be dedicated to IP STB. By having the Premiere 4 TiVo will offer a lower cost entry point into this new paradigm of a single TiVo with extenders.

BigJimOutlaw · 08-08-2012, 07:44 AM

Oh jeez, all we needed was a 4th name for a 4-tuner product. lol.

Sounds possible I guess, but who knows.

aaronwt · 08-08-2012, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan203

That could be why they changed the name to XL4. They have a Premiere, a Premiere XL and a Premiere XL4. If they add a Premiere 4 then it will complete the line.

Dan

So by calling it a Premiere 4 they would drop the THX certification to save some money plus save by cutting the storage by a quarter?

I still think 500GB is too small for a four tuner device.

I'm still hoping a six tuner S5 is announced for early next year. Then I can replace my Elites and use the six tuner box with IP STBs.

drebbe · 08-08-2012, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaronwt

I still think 500GB is too small for a four tuner device.

Anybody who has a 56TB MSS might have a slightly different perspective on what constitutes adequate storage capacity than most people.

davezatz · 08-08-2012, 01:23 PM

Hardware is confirmed, via a spec sheet TiVo provided me, but I don't think they're ready to discuss price.

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2012-08/...vo-premiere-4/

Aero 1 · 08-08-2012, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davezatz

Hardware is confirmed, via a spec sheet TiVo provided me, but I don't think they're ready to discuss price.

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2012-08/...vo-premiere-4/

i hope this is not the way they are going to "fix" the tivo ip box tuner pool issue by saying that this "premiere" is needed for the ip box, not the two tuner premiere.

Philmatic · 08-08-2012, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davezatz

Hardware is confirmed, via a spec sheet TiVo provided me, but I don't think they're ready to discuss price.

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2012-08/...vo-premiere-4/

TiVo is scatterbrain with the Series 4, they need to plan better.

sbiller · 08-08-2012, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philmatic

TiVo is scatterbrain with the Series 4, they need to plan better.

Huh? Care to explain?

aaronwt · 08-08-2012, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drebbe

Anybody who has a 56TB MSS might have a slightly different perspective on what constitutes adequate storage capacity than most people.

And that's only half my available network storage.

But even with the two tuner DVRs and 160GB drives, I know several people with families that recently have been pissed about their DVR storage capacity since the Olympics has been on. Even though they all have two to five DVRs with 160GB or something larger, they have been complaining about not having enough space to record their normal programming and the Olympics.

aaronwt · 08-08-2012, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philmatic

TiVo is scatterbrain with the Series 4, they need to plan better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbiller

Huh? Care to explain?

They seem to be all over the place with the Premiere naming. It seems more confusing then ever. Especially when you factor in that some can only record from digital cable. I would think it's confusing for the average shopper.

Jonathan_S · 08-08-2012, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaronwt

They seem to be all over the place with the Premiere naming. It seems more confusing then ever. Especially when you factor in that some can only record from digital cable. I would think it's confusing for the average shopper.

I don't know, its really only the (now renamed) Elite that really confused things. Otherwise with the new Premiere 4 their lineup falls into a nice 2x2 matrix

Code:

               OTA capable           |
               Analog/Digital Cable  |  Digital Cable Only    
               2 Tuners              |  4 Tuners
             -------------------------------------------------
small HD     |      Premiere         |     Premiere 4        |
basic remote |                       |                       |
--------------------------------------------------------------
Big HD       |     Premiere XL       |    Premiere XL4       |
THX          |                       |                       |
glow remote  |                       |                       |
--------------------------------------------------------------

Where XL universally stands for big HD and THX, while '4' universally stands for four tuner and digital cable-only.

What TiVo probably needs to do is fix that basic idea up with marketing speak (not "small/big harddrive" but maybe "regular" and "extra large") and start putting a similar matrix on their packaging or as part of store displays to help people pick the right unit.

compnurd · 08-08-2012, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aero 1

i hope this is not the way they are going to "fix" the tivo ip box tuner pool issue by saying that this "premiere" is needed for the ip box, not the two tuner premiere.

I dont think so. It was confirmed it will come to the two tuner premiere

sbiller · 08-08-2012, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan_S

I don't know, its really only the (now renamed) Elite that really confused things. Otherwise with the new Premiere 4 their lineup falls into a nice 2x2 matrix

Code:

            OTA capable    |      Cable Only    
             2 Tuners      |       4 Tuners
          --------------------------------------
small HD  |  Premiere      |   Premiere 4       |
------------------------------------------------
Big HD    | Premiere XL    |  Premiere XL4      |
THX       |                |                    |
------------------------------------------------

Where XL universally stands for big HD and THX, while '4' universally stands for four tuner and cable-only.

What TiVo probably needs to do is fix that basic idea up with marketing speak (not "small/big harddrive" but maybe "regular" and "extra large") and start putting a similar matrix on their packaging or as part of store displays to help people pick the right unit.

Fantastic chart. Thanks. One nit to add is the 'XL' boxes come with Glo Remotes instead of the basic TiVo Remote.

CoxInPHX · 08-09-2012, 02:46 AM

So is the Premiere 4 THX certified? I would assume the hardware would be identical to the Q.
The PDF posted by Dave, does not show THX on the pictured unit.

According to the picture on the TiVo Q brochure, it has the THX logo on the bottom right of the unit, although nothing in the wording says THX.
http://www.tivo.com/assets/pdfs/busi..._SS-2011_Q.pdf

BigJimOutlaw · 08-09-2012, 03:42 AM

It doesn't appear to be THX certified from any of the limited documentation thus far. But all of the quad-tuner boxes so far have had identical hardware except for different hard drive sizes, so the loss would be moot. Only thing we lose is the calibration video, but there are better ones out there for free.

aaronwt · 08-09-2012, 07:30 AM

Only XL units are THX certified. TiVo does not pay THX to have the certification label on non XL boxes.

CoxInPHX · 08-09-2012, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaronwt

Only XL units are THX certified. TiVo does not pay THX to have the certification label on non XL boxes.

The Q clearly shows the THX logo (Zoom in), in the printed material above. I don't think MSOs would even care about THX, perhaps it was a pre-production unit pictured, I would be curious to hear from any RCN customers to see if the actual unit has the logo.

I just noticed my new Woot Elite does NOT have the THX logo on the front, interesting...

davezatz · 08-09-2012, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoxInPHX

So is the Premiere 4 THX certified? I would assume the hardware would be identical to the Q.
The PDF posted by Dave, does not show THX on the pictured unit.

No, the new Premiere 4 is not THX certified.

aindik · 08-09-2012, 02:11 PM

Looking forward to this. I will likely buy a Premiere 4 for $250 + $399 lifetime. I will recycle my 1 TB external drive. 1.5 TB is plenty for me, especially if I can still offload things to my computer via TTG and convert them via Handbrake to an AppleTV compatible format, as I can now.

I will also buy a TiVo Stream and two IP-STBs.

I will then sell my 3 TiVoHDs, all with lifetime, one with a 500 GB external.

Hopefully I can do this without too much net cost. It could also save me some money monthly, if Comcast will get rid of my additional outlet fees on TV2 and TV3 when I replace a TiVo DVR with a TiVo IP-STB.

Dan203 · 08-09-2012, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbiller

Fantastic chart. Thanks. One nit to add is the 'XL' boxes come with Glo Remotes instead of the basic TiVo Remote.

One more thing. It's not just OTA capable tuners in the 2 tuner boxes. They also have analog tuners for cable where the 4 tuner boxes do not. So even if you don't care about OTA you may need a 2 tuner unit if your cable system still carries analog channels. (mine has about 35 stations that are still analog only and can not be recorded on my Elite)

Dan

aaronwt · 08-09-2012, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoxInPHX

The Q clearly shows the THX logo (Zoom in), in the printed material above. I don't think MSOs would even care about THX, perhaps it was a pre-production unit pictured, I would be curious to hear from any RCN customers to see if the actual unit has the logo.

I just noticed my new Woot Elite does NOT have the THX logo on the front, interesting...

The Q is not a retail unit. It is the MSO version of XL4 with a 500GB drive.Or if it isn't THX certified then I guess it was specifically made for cable companies and the Premiere 4 is just the retail version of the Q.

aaronwt · 08-09-2012, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan203

One more thing. It's not just OTA capable tuners in the 2 tuner boxes. They also have analog tuners for cable where the 4 tuner boxes do not. So even if you don't care about OTA you may need a 2 tuner unit if your cable system still carries analog channels. (mine has about 35 stations that are still analog only and can not be recorded on my Elite)

Dan

Why doesn't your cable company duplicate them on the digital tier? This is what Comcast does around here and also FiOS when they had analog channels.

moyekj · 08-09-2012, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaronwt

Why doesn't your cable company duplicate them on the digital tier? This is what Comcast does around here and also FiOS when they had analog channels.

Probably lack of bandwidth perhaps because they haven't done the necessary upgrades such as 850-1000MHz support and/or SDV.

Dan203 · 08-09-2012, 04:48 PM

They actually switched to SDV about a year ago. However they never did anything with it. They put all the HD premium channels on SDV but then they left them in their original locations as well. They said they were going to add a bunch of new HD channels in January, but they that was apparently delayed because it never happened. I have no idea what's going on. I'd love it if the simulcast the analog channels on digital. As it is right now I'm keeping my Premiere XL because my Elite can't record some of the shows I watch.

Dan

Tony Chick · 08-09-2012, 04:58 PM

I'm confused then. Time-Warner has the analog channels on the lower numbers, and I know they are analog because my ancient 13" 1990's CRT set in the kitchen can tune them on 2-99 without a cable box, but I can also tune & record them on my XL4. It seems the XL4 can handle analog cable, unless the cablecard is doing some remapping.

aindik · 08-09-2012, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Chick

I'm confused then. Time-Warner has the analog channels on the lower numbers, and I know they are analog because my ancient 13" 1990's CRT set in the kitchen can tune them on 2-99 without a cable box, but I can also tune & record them on my XL4. It seems the XL4 can handle analog cable, unless the cablecard is doing some remapping.

The CableCARD is doing remapping.

Check the info on a recording from one of those channels. If it was really analog, the info would tell you the recording quality (Basic, High, Best, etc.). If it doesn't say anything about that, then the source is digital (even if the same channel on the same number is analog when using a cable ready TV or a TiVo without a CableCARD).

Jonathan_S · 08-09-2012, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbiller

Fantastic chart. Thanks. One nit to add is the 'XL' boxes come with Glo Remotes instead of the basic TiVo Remote.

Thanks

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan203

One more thing. It's not just OTA capable tuners in the 2 tuner boxes. They also have analog tuners for cable where the 4 tuner boxes do not. So even if you don't care about OTA you may need a 2 tuner unit if your cable system still carries analog channels. (mine has about 35 stations that are still analog only and can not be recorded on my Elite)

Dan

And fair enough. Edited the chart to add those.

(Second edit I was smarter and pulled it back into an editor that supported a fixed width font. It's a little annoying to get the spacing right for the extra lines and width in the broswer's edit window.)

Code:

               OTA capable           |
               Analog/Digital Cable  |  Digital Cable Only    
               2 Tuners              |  4 Tuners
             -------------------------------------------------
small HD     |      Premiere         |     Premiere 4        |
basic remote |                       |                       |
--------------------------------------------------------------
Big HD       |     Premiere XL       |    Premiere XL4       |
THX          |                       |                       |
glow remote  |                       |                       |
--------------------------------------------------------------