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Old 10-05-2006, 12:32 PM   #1
ruff1010
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Need DVD recorder recommendation

I want to offload some of my saved programs (SD, not HD) from my Tivo HD DVR. Can anyone recommend a good DVD recorder that works with this receiver and gets optimal picture quality? The component outputs go to my display, so they are not available.
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Old 10-05-2006, 12:53 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruff1010
I want to offload some of my saved programs (SD, not HD) from my Tivo HD DVR. Can anyone recommend a good DVD recorder that works with this receiver and gets optimal picture quality? The component outputs go to my display, so they are not available.
I'd say 95% of consumer DVD recorders don't have component inputs and those that do still only record 480i. So, not having the component ouputs available is not a huge issue. SVideo will be sufficient.
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Old 10-05-2006, 12:58 PM   #3
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For the absolute best quality and flexibility I'd recommend you get a video capture device for your PC instead of a simple DVD recorder. However if you just want something quick and easy then pretty much any DVD recorder with an S-Video input should suffice.

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Old 10-05-2006, 01:11 PM   #4
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I bought a Panasonic DMR-ES15S for the same reason. It works great. Might not work with HBO and similar movie channels due to DRM. Use Netflix instead. Stay away from cheap no-name chinese units; they're junk.

You can save HD to DVD if you want, even widescreen. Set the TIVO to 480i full screen output. You will have to xfer the content to your computer and change the .ifo file to reflect the widescreen content and burn back to another DVD-R. Check Google & videohelp(dot)com for info. The program you want is ifoedit. Before you can edit the files from the Panasonic on the computer you may have to fix them with a program called fixVTS as well. Both programs are free.
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Old 10-05-2006, 01:24 PM   #5
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You can always eliminate the DRM problems with a "video stabelizer" box between the TiVo and the DVD recorder.

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Old 10-05-2006, 01:32 PM   #6
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Are there any set-top DVD recorders that can record widescreen DVDs on-the-fly (i.e. without computer intervention)?

Dumping HD from the Tivo to SD-Widescreen DVD would be a nice capability. I don't have the time or energy to deal with capture cards and editing/burning software any more. I just want to pop in the DVD and hit a "Record" button on my remote.
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Old 10-05-2006, 01:37 PM   #7
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Be aware that you will run into the problem I reported in this thread:
Save to VCR is "squished"

You will end up with a dispropotianate picture unless you set it to 4:3 everytime you want to record something.
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Old 10-05-2006, 01:44 PM   #8
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I've found some info that suggests that Sony brand DVD recorders have the ability to do this. I also found one reference to a Toshiba brand DVD recorder witht he ability to set the aspect ratio. However it suggested that it was on a disk by disk basis, so you couldn't have a mix of 4:3 and 16:9 on the same disk.

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Old 10-05-2006, 01:46 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loubob57
Be aware that you will run into the problem I reported in this thread:
Save to VCR is "squished"

You will end up with a dispropotianate picture unless you set it to 4:3 everytime you want to record something.
Actually DVDs actually record in a squished mode on purpose. It's called "animorphic". The only thing you need to do is tell the DVD recorder that the content is 16:9 ratio and the DVD player that plays the disk will automatically play it full screen if connected to a 16:9 display or letterboxed when connected to a 4:3 display.

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Old 10-05-2006, 02:39 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203
You can always eliminate the DRM problems with a "video stabelizer" box between the TiVo and the DVD recorder.

Dan

The digital rights management (DRM) mechanism used in all name brand DVD recorders is referred to as CPRM. It is sometimes used by HBO and similar channels. You can't defeat it, it is a digital flag recognized by the DVD recorder, not Macrovision. Use Netflix if you need a DVD movie.
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Old 10-05-2006, 02:49 PM   #11
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A digital flag can not be sent over an analog signal. (i.e. S-Video) It may be true that the DVD recorders internal tuner can recognize these signals and block copying. However if you record to a TiVo first, then copy to DVD via an S-Video cable then the only way to transmit these flags is via analog. And as long as you're dealing in the analog domain there is always going to be some device you can put between the TiVo and DVD record which will defeat the copy protection.

This is why the MPAA is so desperate to plug the "analog hole".

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Old 10-05-2006, 02:56 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203
A digital flag can not be sent over an analog signal. (i.e. S-Video) It may be true that the DVD recorders internal tuner can recognize these signals and block copying. However if you record to a TiVo first, then copy to DVD via an S-Video cable then the only way to transmit these flags is via analog. And as long as you're dealing in the analog domain there is always going to be some device you can put between the TiVo and DVD record which will defeat the copy protection.

This is why the MPAA is so desperate to plug the "analog hole".

Dan
Not to belabor the point. But you are not going defeat this flag imbedded in the analog signal with a clear image stabilizer or any other known hacking device. A person contemplating a DVD recorder needs to be aware of this. Theoretically, Directv could flag every broadcast on every channel tomorrow and you wouldn't be able to record any of it.
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Old 10-05-2006, 03:08 PM   #13
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Luckily we're talking about a S3 unit, which only works with cable, so we don't have to worry about DirecTV.

Seriously though have you actually tried this? Because I just looked up CPRM and it's a digital encryption scheme used to protect content that's already stored on digital media. Like I said above digital flags can not be sent over an analog connection, so it has no bearing on copying programs from a TiVo to a DVD recorder using an analog connection. The only schemes I've seen for protecting content in the analog domain are ones like Macrovision which embed flags in the VBI stream, and those are easily defeated with little boxes you can buy for less then $100.

For the record I copied a couple of episodes of Brotherhood from my S3 to my Toshiba DVD-RW unit the other day and it worked just fine. There wasn't even any Macrovision encoding to deal with.

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Old 10-05-2006, 03:45 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203
Actually DVDs actually record in a squished mode on purpose. It's called "animorphic".
Dan
Actually, it's called "anamorphic".
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Old 10-05-2006, 03:45 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203
Actually DVDs actually record in a squished mode on purpose. It's called "animorphic". The only thing you need to do is tell the DVD recorder that the content is 16:9 ratio and the DVD player that plays the disk will automatically play it full screen if connected to a 16:9 display or letterboxed when connected to a 4:3 display.

Dan
So I guess I need a VCR (or the person I'm giving a tape to does) that will do anamorphic playback. I have a feeling they are rare. But I'm not too worried about it.
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Old 10-05-2006, 04:46 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203
Luckily we're talking about a S3 unit, which only works with cable, so we don't have to worry about DirecTV.

Seriously though have you actually tried this? Because I just looked up CPRM and it's a digital encryption scheme used to protect content that's already stored on digital media. Like I said above digital flags can not be sent over an analog connection, so it has no bearing on copying programs from a TiVo to a DVD recorder using an analog connection. The only schemes I've seen for protecting content in the analog domain are ones like Macrovision which embed flags in the VBI stream, and those are easily defeated with little boxes you can buy for less then $100.

For the record I copied a couple of episodes of Brotherhood from my S3 to my Toshiba DVD-RW unit the other day and it worked just fine. There wasn't even any Macrovision encoding to deal with.

Dan
Rather than using Directv as an example I should have stated "broadcaster". The flag is optional and presently doesn't appear in all broadcasts. That is up to the content owner. The restrictions for a DVD recorder however are effective and I haven't found any web pages that describe a way to defeat it. I don't like it either because of future implications.

Fortunately, I haven't run into any programs that I couldn't record but I don't try to record from HBO or other premium channels either. I too have not run into any Macrovision protected content from my Directv TiVo. That would make me very unhappy since swapping cables in my setup is a real hassle and the signal degradation through the CIS is significant.

The CPRM signal, flag, or whatever you want to call it does exist in some premium content whether in native digital form or after digital to analog conversion. I haven't experienced this personally but have read several accounts of people trying to record a premium movie and only getting the first 8 seconds before the recorder stopped with a copy protection message.
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Old 10-05-2006, 05:41 PM   #17
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The CPRM signal, flag, or whatever you want to call it
Is it possible you're confusing CPRM with CGMS? Because I've done a little more searching and found a lot of references to DVD recorders blocking recordings with CGMS protection.

If so here is a device that would remove it, along with any Macrovision it might have, for $130...

http://www.barrel-of-monkeys.com/gra...ographer.shtml

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Old 10-05-2006, 08:49 PM   #18
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Is it possible you're confusing CPRM with CGMS? Because I've done a little more searching and found a lot of references to DVD recorders blocking recordings with CGMS protection.

If so here is a device that would remove it, along with any Macrovision it might have, for $130...

http://www.barrel-of-monkeys.com/gra...ographer.shtml

Dan
No, it's Content Protection for Recordable Media (CPRM) that I'm talking about. Read the owner's manuals for Sony and Panasonic DVD recorders. Rumor has it the cheap no-name chinese made DVD recorders don't have the circuit that detects this type of DRM. Those machines however, in my experience, don't work very well or for very long.
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Old 10-07-2006, 12:02 PM   #19
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I just bought a Phllips DVDR3390 from Walmart
http://www.consumer.philips.com/cons...CSHP3HKFSESI5P

I have the S3 set to output 1080I fixed. The S3 connects to the DVD recorder via S-Video and RCA for audio. When recording from the S3 I did not use the "Save to VCR" function. I recorded the video by hitting the normal PLAY button on the TiVo. I set the DVD recorder timer to 90 minutes, turned the TV off and walked away.

When it was done I played the burned DVD on a PC and did a screen capture. The video size was 720x480 pixels.

For a comparison I played the DVD both on the computer while 5 feet away also playing a second DVD in a Mitsubishi DVD player which is hooked to a 4:3 TV. The Mitsu player is set to ouput 4:3. I expected one of two things, either the video on the 4:3 TV would be squished to fill up the screen, or it would be letterboxed.

I was suprised to see when the video is played on the TV it crops off the left & right portion of the video. Not really what I expected.

On one hand I am happy it does not squish the vide of course the purist in me is concerned as parts of the video are now missing. However, I won't be the one watching it on a 4:3 TV so I guess it should not matter to me. I have made only this one recording and have not messed with using different variables.

I know some people have said in threads a person should first tell the Tivo to output to 4:3 and then make a recording so it will appear normal on a 4:3 TV?
I am curious why that should be done?

Being a total video recording newb, I did not realize these DVD recorders do not record the original audio 5.1 digital track but instead downgrade the audio to Dolby surround sound rather than Dolby digital. So when played back the receiver says Stereo. I guess this makes sense especially since the DVD recorder does not have optical or coaxial audio in so there would be no way it could record 5.1. When I looked online however it seems most posts on websites indicate DVD recorders do not record 5.1?

In terms of reviewing the recorder:

The DVD recorder can record at several different quality levels. The highest level allows 1 hour of video. Although the video was not as good as watching the same program in HD, it was pretty darn good. While it was recording I was flipping back on my Receiver from the AUDIO/VIDEO source being the TiVO recording and then to the audio/video being fed out by the DVD recorder. The area which shocked me was the loss of audio quality. The clarity of audio was diminished and the sound was not vibrant. Interestingly, when the Burned DVD was played back the audio did not seem as bad. Maybe it sounded OK just because I was not directly comparing it back and forth against the 5.1 audio.

The player plays DiVx files which was really the main reason I went shopping. You can straight up burn to a handful of 800MB DivX AVI files to a single DVD disc without having to recode them. Then you can watch them on the player.

I wanted to get a Philips 5140. People online say it will play "everything you throw at it" without the need to recode the content into DVD video format. But my Wal Mart was sold out. So I thought I would spend the extra money on this player as it would serve a second purpose of recording stuff from the TiVo. Now if the TTG features are enabled in the near future I will feel dumb for buying this. But it was only $130 and will save me the trouble of recoding TiVo video to DVD format and burning it.

This player/recorder also has a firewire link in the front for recording from a Digital Video Camcorder.

When I have time I am going to experiment and see if I can record content from my Mitsubishi TV which has firewire outputs to connect devices such as this. I am curious to see if doing so will create a higher quality recording directly from the TV's tuner. And I wonder if the digital audio content coming down the firewire will be recorder unmolested in 5.1 (maybe I am dreaming.)
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Old 07-30-2012, 07:27 PM   #20
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I have saved content from TiVo to Toshiba DVR and never had any problems.
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Old 08-03-2012, 02:00 PM   #21
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This thread is soooo 2006...
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