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Old 12-01-2012, 12:56 PM   #1
dilsingh
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TIVO 1 with Digital TV channels and analog TV

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Old 12-01-2012, 03:57 PM   #2
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I was getting basic Comcast channels on my old CRT just fine until a week ago or so.Now all I see is that I will need a digitla QAM TV. What is the best solution to receive the digital channels and convert them to Video to feed to the back of the TIVI without going to have to go to Comcast ? I see an Apex TV tuner converter ( DT250A) -- will this solve my problem ? Is thare a better ( cheaper ?) way to do this ?
You'll have to get a box from Comcast. Cheapest option is $1.99/mo DTA, although they may give you one for free.

3rd party boxes like the DT250A are for over-the-air and will not work on cable.
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Old 12-01-2012, 05:52 PM   #3
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A used S3 class TiVo with Product Lifetime Service can be had on ebay for under $400. That is your best solution, and probably the least expensive in the long run. I'm sure this is not what you wanted to hear, but the fact is that old S1 TiVo is just no longer a tenable solution.
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Old 12-01-2012, 08:29 PM   #4
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I also have a Tivo series 1 which I use for recording basic cable channels off Comcast. I got a letter a few weeks ago from Comcast saying the analog basic cable channels are moving to digital soon but they are also providing up to 3 free DTA boxes to convert the digital channels back to analog. I don't know why you want to avoid going through Comcast but they will probably provide you with a box for free.
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Old 12-01-2012, 10:22 PM   #5
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You'll have to rerun guided setup on the Tivo to use the DTA and you will also need an IR cable to change the channels on the DTA. You'll need to connect your S1 to a telephone line to rerun guided setup. The big issue will be, does the modem in the S1 still work and do you have a compatible land line to connect to the Tivo servers.
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Old 12-01-2012, 11:50 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by dilsingh View Post
I am using this particular TIVO 1 as a DVR without programming. I was thinking that I should be able to attach a box between the cable TV and the TIVO to do the conversion, before feeding the video to the TIVO input. The message from Comcast says that a TV with QAM (?) tuner should work with the new broadcast. I should be able to use a Digital prorgam tuner that outputs video ? -- such as a the unit I described in the earlier posting ?
As I previously stated, the unit you described earlier is for over-the-air digital conversion and will not work on cable. That's why you need a Comcast provided box. Comcast is also being a bit disingenuous. Yes, a QAM tuner will work for now for unencrypted channels but Comcast requested and received a waiver from the FCC that allows them to encrypt all channels, even locals, so at some point even a digital TV will not work on cable w/o a box.

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Originally Posted by dilsingh View Post
$400 seems very high just to get to be able to tune into a digital bradcaset and output video to an existing DVR ?
That $400 gets you a "new", fully capable TiVo with 2 digital tuners and no monthly fees to TiVo. It would replace your existing TiVo, not act as a converter box.
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:56 PM   #7
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This is one of the reasons for thinking about buying a cheap unit that can receive Digital TV and convert signal to AV, to feed into a TIVO1 to be used as DVR ( without program guide ). The TIVO1 I have can connect to Ethernet and has a 1 TB drive for storage.
What you are seeking doesn't exist. You cannot "buy" a Comcast DTA off of e-bay. Even if you acquire one somehow, it has to be enabled on your account. I infer that by saying '"free" through an old Comcast service' that you are not paying Comcast. If that is indeed the case, what you are currently doing already amounts to "theft of service" And while it is one thing if Comcast simply didn't bother to disconnect the service when you terminated the account, it is quite another for you to take affirmative steps so you can continue to receive the channels.

Pardon me if I have misconstrued the situation, but I cannot think of any other reason for you to not want to acquire a box from Comcast.
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Old 12-04-2012, 03:04 AM   #8
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I had an old Channel Master QAM tuner laying around (similar to the Apex DT250A) and hooked it up to my Comcast line but it could not find the clear QAM channels. I guess those digital tuners only work with over-the-air signals.

Based on my limited knowledge of Comcast DTAs, if you buy one off of ebay, I doubt it would work (even if you found one that was activated).

If you are getting your internet through Comcast, you may want to look into whether or not you can get a discount by pairing it with a tv package such as Limited Basic. That is what I do. The discount on my internet price covers the cost of the Limited Basic cable package so I pay about the same price with or without the tv package.
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Old 12-04-2012, 03:27 AM   #9
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Any cable company equipment on eBay is most likely unreturned customer equipment, aka stolen.
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Old 12-04-2012, 01:58 PM   #10
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Be aware the S1 Tivo does not support OTA digital converters - Tivo doesn't support the OTA Digital converters.

I pulled mine out of storage to test some place shifting devices and thought great, it could support OTA. Nope. S2 does though per TiVo website.
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Old 12-04-2012, 02:07 PM   #11
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Be aware the S1 Tivo does not support OTA digital converters - Tivo doesn't support the OTA Digital converters.

I pulled mine out of storage to test some place shifting devices and thought great, it could support OTA. Nope. S2 does though per TiVo website.
DTV Pal digital converters can be used for antenna TV on a Series 1 Tivo. The channels will not be correct for all the channels, or the channel guide, but it still can be used for a poor mans' Tivo. You set up the Tivo for DirectTV which uses the same codes as the DTV converter box.
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Old 12-04-2012, 02:26 PM   #12
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dilsingh:

Sometimes you will see the term "Clear QAM" which refers to digital cable channels sent out by a cable provider that are not encrypted. As long as Comcast continues to send the QAM (digital cable) signals in the clear (unencrypted) you do not need a Comcast converter box, you can use any device with a QAM tuner in it to view the channels.

However being able using a Series 1 TiVo to control a device with a QAM (digital cable) tuner is very unlikely.

Also as others have said Comcast is in the process of getting permission to encrypt all of their digital channels so at some unknown time in the future you will need a Comcast cable subscription and either a Comcast provided digital cable box or a Comcast provided cable card for a cable card device you own to view any digital cable channels.

PS: I would not buy any Comcast digital cable boxes off ebay. One they are likely stolen and two I believe a cable company digital cable box is a 2 way device. You might not want to broadcast back to Comcast that you are using a stolen digital cable box to access cable channels you are not paying for. You could buy a stand alone QAM (digital cable) tuner but again I don't think your Series 1 TiVo will be able to control it.
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Old 12-04-2012, 04:19 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dilsingh View Post
OK Guys, I undertand the sensitivity. Lets forget Comcast and just say that I have a device that generates Digital cable like signal that I want to tune to like a cable box but the signal needs to be converted to video that can be fed to a VCR. What would I use ? A DTA ( not a COMCAST DTA !) is needed.
You are insisting on trying to use multiple, ultimately more expensive units to do far less than half of what a single, ultimately less expensive Tivo can do.

Your suggestion to use a VCR is just ridiculous.

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Can the Apex unit serve that purpose ? I undertsand that the video produces at the RCA input may be encrypted, but can it be done ?
In this context, there is really no such thing as "encrypted analog video". More to the point, you are talking about, or at least seem to be, clear QAM digital video, which is not encrypted.

Your question about the Apex unit has already been answered. I'll repeat the answer: No.

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Clearly, the latest TIVO has the logic block to do just that ?
Why do you keep saying "the latest"? TiVos sold since September 2006 have all been able to do it*, and there have been no fewer than 5 or 6 models released since then. None of the later models have any more ability to record clear QAM than the original S3, which can do so perfectly well. No S3 or later Stand Alone TiVo will work with any sort of converter box.

* - This is not the same as saying all TiVos sold as new since September 2006 are capable of it. TiVo and its retail outlets did continue to sell the S2 models for some time after the introduction of the S3.
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Old 12-05-2012, 05:22 AM   #14
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OK Guys, I undertand the sensitivity. Lets forget Comcast and just say that I have a device that generates Digital cable like signal that I want to tune to like a cable box but the signal needs to be converted to video that can be fed to a VCR. What would I use ? A DTA ( not a COMCAST DTA !) is needed. Can the Apex unit serve that purpose ? I undertsand that the video produces at the RCA input may be encrypted, but can it be done ?

Clearly, the latest TIVO has the logic block to do just that ?
It sounds like you still don't understand how stuff works. If you are talking about a Apex Digital TV DTV Converter Box DT250A, it does not have a digital cable (QAM) tuner it only has an over the air (OTA) digital (ATSC) tuner.

Just to be clear digital cable TV requires a different tuner than digital OTA TV.

To do what you want you are looking for a device with a digital cable (QAM) TV tuner in it. All Series 3 & Series 4 TiVos have a QAM tuner, many newer TVs have a QAM tuner some higher end DVD recorders and even some VHS recorders had QAM tuners, there are many QAM tuner cards for computers and silicondust makes units designed to be on your network.

What is not common are stand alone digital cable tuner boxes that are not a cable company box. If you would like to see an example of one click: Combination Digital OTA & Digital Cable Tuner Set Top Box
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:14 AM   #15
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I need to experiment because I am not going to get an answer here !
What question don't you have an answer too?
  1. The Apex TV tuner converter ( DT250A) is not a cable QAM tuner and does not work with digital cable
  2. You need a non-cable company digital cable (QAM) tuner set top box - which are fairly rare.
If you want to take a look at another combination Digital Over The Air and Digital Cable TV tuner Set Top Box take a look at: http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...u=020572070010
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:54 PM   #16
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TIVO is mentioned with a cablecard, but I suspect that is Tivo 3 and later ?
I have 2, TIVo1s and a TIVO2.
Yes only Series 3 & 4 TiVos have digital cable (QAM) tuners built in. Cable cards can only be provided by your cable company and are used to identify and decrypte the encrypted channels that you subscribe to. They are also needed for TiVo to provide you with guide data.
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I have a Sony XBR in an OAK cabinet that is 18 yrs old -- does not have a QAM tuner. If I had a cheap QAM tuner device between the Cable signal and the TIVO, I think things would be back to normal.
The issues are finding a "cheap" QAM tuner device and then finding away for a TiVo to change it's channels. A Series 2 TiVo should work fine with a cable company provided digital set top box but other than that I don't think you will find a solution.

Quote:
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I do not feel like subscribing to DISH and Cable. Perhaps I should just get an OTA device and plug in an Antenna for this ONE TV as I only watch public broadcast channels on this ?
Using an Over The Air broadcast TV digital converter box with an antenna is certainly an option if you live someplace that can get acceptable reception. There are many of those type boxes around and the single tuner Series 2 TiVos support allot of them. You could search through old threads to find lists of supported brands. Back before I went HD I used a Channel Master 7000 with my Series 2 TiVo for OTA digital TV and everything worked fine.

Their were some work arounds for some of the OTA converter boxes with Series 1 TiVos but they were not officially supported.
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Old 12-05-2012, 05:17 PM   #17
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it only has an over the air (OTA) digital (ANSI) tuner.
Um, that's ATSC, not ANSI.
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Old 12-05-2012, 05:21 PM   #18
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Um, that's ATSC, not ANSI.
Thanks not sure how I typed that one - I fixed it - link is good.
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:29 PM   #19
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I was getting basic Comcast channels on my old CRT just fine until a week ago or so.Now all I see is that I will need a digitla QAM TV. What is the best solution to receive the digital channels and convert them to Video to feed to the back of the TIVI without going to have to go to Comcast ? I see an Apex TV tuner converter ( DT250A) -- will this solve my problem ? Is thare a better ( cheaper ?) way to do this ?
You could easily find a cheap Tivo HD without service to use to receive the unencrypted QAM channels. The Tivo HD has composite output that could be sent to the input of an S1. The issue would be getting the S1 to change the channels on the Tivo HD since there is no setup option to control a Tivo HD and no guide information for unencrypted QAM channels.
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:41 PM   #20
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Thank you James. Perhaps I have enjoyed the 7-8 channels ( channels 2-9) free, but I was not aware that I had to pay for it as no payment was asked for after I switched my internet. I think these are public channels that one can get with just an antenna ? I certainly did not go out of my way to ask Comcast if I should be paying for these, perhaps I should have ?
The law puts the burden on you to notify the cable company that you are using their service and wait for written authorization before you use it. Most cable companies have a basic package that offers just the local channels. It's a criminal offense to use cable without paying for it. Antennas aren't that expensive. It's not worth the risk.
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Old 12-07-2012, 03:44 AM   #21
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I am not trying to break laws or steal anything.
No, that is exactly what you are trying to do. Pay for cable or don't watch cable. Simple.
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:09 PM   #22
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Stop judging people and trying to read between the lines -- I am not trying to break laws or steal anything. If you cannot help with the questions I ask, do not post any answers !

Nobody is judging you. You are simply being informed what the true situation is. I will add one thing though - it is people like you that Comcast used to justify their request for and receipt of a waiver that allows them to encrypt all digital channels.

Your original questions were answered, you just didn't like the answers, and continued to insist that there must be some legal way for you to continue to receive service for which you are not paying. That is not a "judgement", it is a FACT.
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:31 PM   #23
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FYI- if Comcast does find out this has been going on, they will have the right to back-bill for service rendered.

On a more general note:

Continuous service policies are common, and benefit many. Think of the cost and hassle if every time someone moved the gas/water/electric/sewer utility had to physically remove/connect each service location from their grid. They don't do that because they know residents have a legal obligation to call and start service. If that does not happen, they have the right to back-bill for services rendered or charge others for the lost revenue.
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:52 PM   #24
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:01 PM   #25
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Thank you !

Looks like I have done Comcast a big favor by providing reasons to encrypt channels which nobody has a right to watch anyway, so once I throw my TV out of the window, Comcast can save the cost of encryption because they would not need to protect themselves from me.

Now go away and I promise never to watch anything unless people on this forum tell me its OK to watch.
Either grow up or go away yourself, you ignorant troll. People who are paying for Comcast have every right to watch those channels, free from encryption. That's why they needed a waiver.

Try to get it through your tiny brain. NO ONE HAS THREATENED TO "DROP A DIME" TO COMCAST, i.e. report you. You have merely been informed as to what the possible consequences are if you get caught.

If Comcast had physically disconnected your cable, would you consider it within your rights to reconnect it? What they have done is the virtual equivalent of disconnecting and what you want to do is the virtual equivalent of reconnecting.
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Old 12-07-2012, 05:15 PM   #26
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It looks like he took his ball and went home.
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