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Old 07-15-2012, 04:52 AM   #1
saboken
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Tivo and New FCC Law on cable cards

I was a former Tivo user but since the FCC, passed the new law's about cable cards I can see a rapid decline in Tivo customers! since The service is actualy free I wont post how but these new laws just gave the US consumers the right to record and access the EPG free of charge using what a lot of people already own! plus one purchace, I see the forum has not been very busy since this law was passed and other companys started selling hardware that allows free recording and access to the EPG and the Cable co can't block access to your recordings even if you cancel your account or move, if you already paid to watch and or record the show you shold have access to it at anytime! I am curious how Tivo will resond to the loss of customers?
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Old 07-15-2012, 07:19 AM   #2
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You're not specifically paying for the program guide when you purchase the Tivo service. You're paying to use the software that's on the Tivo. You can actually download guide data without a subscription. You just can't record anything without it. You will always have access to any recordings on the Tivo even after you cancel service.
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Old 07-15-2012, 08:31 AM   #3
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Saboken, you've said the same basic thing in 2 threads, what's the "New FCC law on CableCARDs" that you keep referring to?

There's been no mass exodus of Tivo users, it's summer, forum traffic is probably slightly lower because of that.
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Old 07-15-2012, 09:31 AM   #4
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TIVO Fee vs Free

My reason for the post is I get everything Tivo offers including whole home DVR access and the only cost is the cable subscription and a $2.00 mo cable card I don't have to pay a third party to use my DVR

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You're not specifically paying for the program guide when you purchase the Tivo service. You're paying to use the software that's on the Tivo. You can actually download guide data without a subscription. You just can't record anything without it. You will always have access to any recordings on the Tivo even after you cancel service.

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Old 07-15-2012, 09:36 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by dianebrat View Post
Saboken, you've said the same basic thing in 2 threads, what's the "New FCC law on CableCARDs" that you keep referring to?

There's been no mass exodus of Tivo users, it's summer, forum traffic is probably slightly lower because of that.
+1

Come on Saboken, tell us what you're really up to!
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Old 07-15-2012, 09:37 AM   #6
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The law that makes my DVR free to use I don't have to pay anyone to use the equipment I own, when you buy a Tivo you have to pay them a monthly service fee right I get everything TIVO has to offer but I don't have to pay to use my tuner except for the Cable card rental fee! The law has opened up a new market and my comment on the forum activity has nothing to do with summer most of the post are from 2008? that's a long summer LOL
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Old 07-15-2012, 09:53 AM   #7
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I'm not up to anything

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+1

Come on Saboken, tell us what you're really up to!
I'm not up to anything just taking advantage of what the FCC has allowed me to legally do without paying a toll to access what should be free to anyone that owns there own hardware, and most people have what they need minus a tuner to use your owned hardware with out paying a middleman, it's the same with M$ and there little box were they charge you to access services you have already paid for!! I'm waiting for the day automobile company's start to charge extra to use the radio in your car. also the may not be that new but there are company's out there that have taken advantage of the new law to create hardware to use a Cable card, My Cable Co is currently under investigation with the FCC for failing to obey the law and deduct the cost of there hardware they want to charge me ala carte if I return the equipment, so I still have it since it cost less to just put in the closet until the FCC forces them to obey the law! they did the same when I had the TIVO but now the rules are different since I own everything and none of it has a usage fees attached to them.
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Old 07-15-2012, 10:20 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by saboken View Post
The law that makes my DVR free to use I don't have to pay anyone to use the equipment I own, when you buy a Tivo you have to pay them a monthly service fee right I get everything TIVO has to offer but I don't have to pay to use my tuner except for the Cable card rental fee! The law has opened up a new market and my comment on the forum activity has nothing to do with summer most of the post are from 2008? that's a long summer LOL
Are referring to the change that is the Bring Your Own Equipment policy?
Because I don't think that the way you're referring to things is correct.

You can't get a "free Tivo" you have to pay Tivo for access to their service, you can do a HTPC, but you'll still need a CableCARD, and yes guide data for an HTPC can be found at no charge in some situations as can other DVRs, but none IMNSHO compare to the Tivo experience and I'm not seeing an explosion in non-Tivo 3rd party DVR activity out there.

There's no "magic new law" that makes everything free that you seem to be implying in all of your posts.
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Old 07-15-2012, 10:52 AM   #9
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Smile I'm not implying anything just following rules about posting

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Are referring to the change that is the Bring Your Own Equipment policy?
Because I don't think that the way you're referring to things is correct.

You can't get a "free Tivo" you have to pay Tivo for access to their service, you can do a HTPC, but you'll still need a CableCARD, and yes guide data for an HTPC can be found at no charge in some situations as can other DVRs, but none IMNSHO compare to the Tivo experience and I'm not seeing an explosion in non-Tivo 3rd party DVR activity out there.

There's no "magic new law" that makes everything free that you seem to be implying in all of your posts.
Magic law LOL yes I am talking about HTPC with a Cable card tuner and extenders you pay once for your hardware and that's it no magic no one is charging me to use the card or record to however many hard drives I have attached I don't have to pay to network my DVR most people own a computer I happen to own quite a few but the one I am using is on 24/7 since it is being used for a PC based Video security system but this works in any PC and wakes it up as needed so the bottom line is the LAW allows me to get what the cable co wants to charge me for and also Tivo charges for! for no cost the EPG guide is free in all cases! you paid for your Tivo right? you own it right? but you have to pay to use it? doesn't make sense now that there are options out there that could hurt Tivos sales, this is no different than M$ charging to access the net on a box you own! and you have already paid your ISP for the net and HULU and Netflix a fee there service! I just never understood how people see this as acceptable? the cost of the tuner I have and each XBOX extender is less than buying tivo units for each tv in my home and I don't have a fee attached since the Xbox fee is not required to access anything on my home network! if a drive goes bad I get it replaced under warranty if it has not run out, or buy a new one but if a Tivo goes bad you have to pay when you get a replacement or upgrade? how is that fair even if my PC dies I just put the tuner in another PC and I'm done I don't have to pay anyone! anymore! as far as the Law no it's not new but the competition is based on the newest Law! my cable co is not happy since they have to deduct over $40.00 a month from my bill. Tivo is not offering anything MCE can't give me free! so the moral of the story is why would anyone pay extra to use features in equipment they own? Direct TV gets away with it by not selling there receivers anymore you never really own them and dish lets you buy there receivers but there is a outrageous fee involved for choosing to own them that makes the option a bad financial decision.
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Old 07-15-2012, 11:07 AM   #10
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Are referring to the change that is the Bring Your Own Equipment policy?
Because I don't think that the way you're referring to things is correct.

You can't get a "free Tivo" you have to pay Tivo for access to their service, you can do a HTPC, but you'll still need a CableCARD, and yes guide data for an HTPC can be found at no charge in some situations as can other DVRs, but none IMNSHO compare to the Tivo experience and I'm not seeing an explosion in non-Tivo 3rd party DVR activity out there.

There's no "magic new law" that makes everything free that you seem to be implying in all of your posts.
I guess if I get kicked for referring to products but Ceton and SiliconDust both
have multi tuner cards, usb tuners, and a network tuner that provides all that Tivo has at a one time cost and yes many have abandoned Tivo when they became aware of these products! they work with any cable company that a Tivo works with support 3D and with my 2 TB external drive I can record a lot more than what Tivo has provided in there boxes I regularly have 3 HD sets viewing 1080i programs on different channels with no issues and have the ability to record 4 HD channels at a time, a feature I get that Tivo doesn't have is the ability to transfer any unencrypted content to DVD with one click, pause rewind continue in another room get Netflix and soon access the content on a smart phone away from home but this feature is still in beta! so how I see it I have what you have and I once had at a much lower cost.
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Old 07-15-2012, 11:34 AM   #11
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The monthly fee isn't the only pricing option for Tivo. Another option is to pay a one time fee for lifetime service. The cost of the Tivo with lifetime service is often cheaper than building an HTPC, plus you don't have to build a computer, install windows and apply the updates.
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Old 07-15-2012, 12:00 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by saboken View Post
Magic law LOL yes I am talking about HTPC with a Cable card tuner and extenders you pay once for your hardware and that's it no magic no one is charging me to use the card or record to however many hard drives I have attached I don't have to pay to network my DVR most people own a computer I happen to own quite a few but the one I am using is on 24/7 since it is being used for a PC based Video security system but this works in any PC and wakes it up as needed so the bottom line is the LAW allows me to get what the cable co wants to charge me for and also Tivo charges for! for no cost the EPG guide is free in all cases! you paid for your Tivo right? you own it right? but you have to pay to use it? doesn't make sense now that there are options out there that could hurt Tivos sales, this is no different than M$ charging to access the net on a box you own! and you have already paid your ISP for the net and HULU and Netflix a fee there service! I just never understood how people see this as acceptable? the cost of the tuner I have and each XBOX extender is less than buying tivo units for each tv in my home and I don't have a fee attached since the Xbox fee is not required to access anything on my home network! if a drive goes bad I get it replaced under warranty if it has not run out, or buy a new one but if a Tivo goes bad you have to pay when you get a replacement or upgrade? how is that fair even if my PC dies I just put the tuner in another PC and I'm done I don't have to pay anyone! anymore! as far as the Law no it's not new but the competition is based on the newest Law! my cable co is not happy since they have to deduct over $40.00 a month from my bill. Tivo is not offering anything MCE can't give me free! so the moral of the story is why would anyone pay extra to use features in equipment they own? Direct TV gets away with it by not selling there receivers anymore you never really own them and dish lets you buy there receivers but there is a outrageous fee involved for choosing to own them that makes the option a bad financial decision.
You're very confused.

There is no law providing for free electronic program guides. Microsoft licenses the guide information and makes it available, currently free of charge, to authorized users of the Windows Media Center software, based on this license: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/w...rms-of-service

Microsoft sells the Windows operating system, some versions of which come with Windows Media Center. You can configure this software on appropriate PC hardware including various tuners, including over-the-air and CableCARD based tuners, video cards, and media extenders. Third parties can provide software enhancements compatible with Media Center, some provide them for free, some sell them for a price.

Tivo sells a product that includes hardware and custom software. Their product requires a monthly fee or purchase of a lifetime service for the device. The device is self-contained and turnkey. TiVo provides access to many additional services such as Netflix, Amazon On Demand, Xfinity OnDemand (currently being rolled out to select markets) and other video delivery services.

Other companies may sell other CableCARD-compatible products, under whatever terms they may choose to sell and service them.

The "law" you keep referring to requires that the Cable Company provide you the right to connect your own equipment to their service and to make use of it to whatever degree that equipment supports and to not be charged for equipment rental that may be otherwise priced into their service plans that you do not have installed and do not want to have installed, and provides that the Cable Company provide the same conditional access device (CableCARD) for your provided equipment that they would provide in their own.
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Old 07-15-2012, 12:04 PM   #13
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The monthly fee isn't the only pricing option for Tivo. Another option is to pay a one time fee for lifetime service. The cost of the Tivo with lifetime service is often cheaper than building an HTPC, plus you don't have to build a computer, install windows and apply the updates.
most people have computers so you only need to buy a tuner and as far as the lifetime Tivo I see a lot of complaints about transferring it to new units when they fail or upgrade, also I don't need a Tivo for each TV just one computer it could be a laptop the total cost is still lower! upgrades are less expensive repairs are less expensive I just have to replace the part that failed not the whole computer if a drive goes I buy a new drive, if the power supply dies $30-$40 and I'm up and running again if the tuner goes it has a 1 year warranty and they have a very low failure rate less than 1% the Cable cards die first I have seen some go through 5-6 cable cards and the tuner still works because it is a simple device the Card does 90% of the work, like I said I was once a Tivo owner but the cost involved and the propitiatory nature of the devices just don't make sense anymore! and if you only have one TV you can use Linux which is free to run the tuner on but yes Linux is a bit difficult to the novice PC user, but most PC's prebuilt in past few years have W7 pre installed on them, and the company's making the cards will walk a novice through the install, they are even using the attorneys to help me enforce the FCC law my cable company has chosen to ignore! so I see this as progress and soon system pre built with these tuners pre configured Just add Cable card! I did the math in one year my cost is paid for the second year I save $513.00 a year over having the Cable co tuners with Tivo I would only save $333.12 a year and I don't have to pay $499.99 for a lifetime service I already paid that to Sirus but there a different kind of service that does not offer any content that is free! so I don't know how anyone can argue with saving over $500.00 a year for the same thing just delivered another way.
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Old 07-15-2012, 12:18 PM   #14
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saboken,

There are plenty of previous discussions in the forums here about Ceton and SiliconDust CableCARD discussions, it's not like you have found out "the big secret". A lot of the assumptions and generalizations you've made about both Tivo issues, and HTPC non-issues are just your opinions, Tivo units do not have the death knell you seem to feel they do.

I'm not sure what your agenda is, but trying to spread the gospel of non-Tivo solutions in a forum full of folks that love and support Tivo units isn't going to get you a lot of converts, most of us know the alternatives and have chosen to be with Tivo. I run both an HDHomerun prime and 2 Tivo units, I prefer the Tivos, but the HDR has its place.

p.s. paragraphs, sentences, and line breaks are your friends, please feel free to use them to help make your posts more readable; because so far they're just one giant mass of words that are not always understandable.
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Old 07-15-2012, 12:21 PM   #15
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most people have computers so you only need to buy a tuner and as far as the lifetime Tivo I see a lot of complaints about transferring it to new units when they fail or upgrade, also I don't need a Tivo for each TV just one computer it could be a laptop the total cost is still lower! upgrades are less expensive repairs are less expensive I just have to replace the part that failed not the whole computer if a drive goes I buy a new drive, if the power supply dies $30-$40 and I'm up and running again if the tuner goes it has a 1 year warranty and they have a very low failure rate less than 1% the Cable cards die first I have seen some go through 5-6 cable cards and the tuner still works because it is a simple device the Card does 90% of the work, like I said I was once a Tivo owner but the cost involved and the propitiatory nature of the devices just don't make sense anymore! and if you only have one TV you can use Linux which is free to run the tuner on but yes Linux is a bit difficult to the novice PC user, but most PC's prebuilt in past few years have W7 pre installed on them, and the company's making the cards will walk a novice through the install, they are even using the attorneys to help me enforce the FCC law my cable company has chosen to ignore! so I see this as progress and soon system pre built with these tuners pre configured Just add Cable card! I did the math in one year my cost is paid for the second year I save $513.00 a year over having the Cable co tuners with Tivo I would only save $333.12 a year and I don't have to pay $499.99 for a lifetime service I already paid that to Sirus but there a different kind of service that does not offer any content that is free! so I don't know how anyone can argue with saving over $500.00 a year for the same thing just delivered another way.
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Old 07-15-2012, 12:44 PM   #16
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Yes they are sorry I have been working all night and need to get to bed so I am sorry about the Typing so in my final statement I just had a chat with Tivo support/sales to clear up any misconceptions I may have had, and I was not proven wrong by the sales person the chat went as follows.

" Roderic: Hi, my name is Roderic. Are you an existing customer?
TiVo Customer: no just looking for info
Roderic: Welcome, how may I help you today?
TiVo Customer: do you need a tivo for each tv?
Roderic: Yes, it is recommended to have a TiVo box for each TV.
TiVo Customer: is there a way to use one tivo for more than one tv?
Roderic: It's possible to output a TiVo box to more than one TV, but the same output would be displayed.
TiVo Customer: ok
Roderic: I would recommend an RF conversion kit for the TiVo remote if you go with that setup.
Roderic: That would allow the TIVo remote to work through walls.
TiVo Customer: how many tuners are in the tivos?
TiVo Customer: I see one with 4 what do the thers have?
Roderic: The Premiere and Premiere XL are dual tuners. These work with analog and digital cable as well as over-the-air antenna.
Roderic: The Premiere XL4 is a quad tuner. This works with digital cable only.
TiVo Customer: ok so what do I get for the monthly subscription that a PC cable card tuner can't give me?
Roderic: A TiVo service plan is needed to allow a TiVo box to download guide data, record, allow the interactive HD interface to work and to allow access to the many extra multimedia features.
TiVo Customer: ok I have a ceton infintv pcix tuner that allows me to get the guide free and allows me to access the tuners through the network on any PC or tv in my home with no monthly fee except the cable card rental, what are the extra multimedia features?
Roderic: The extra multimedia features are online video and music streaming from sources such as Netflix, Hulu Plus, Pandora and more.
TiVo Customer: ok I can get those through my PC free also is there anything I get from the tivo that my PC can't get to warrant the subscription fee?
Roderic: Well, a TiVo box is a nice all-in-one unit that's usually cheaper than a similar home theater PC.
Roderic: It also has an efficient design that uses very minimal power compared to a PC (usually uses only about 26 watts of power).
TiVo Customer: OK I was just wondering since the PC was only about $400.00 and the Tuner $199.00 and your 4 tuner Tivo is $399.00 and I would need one for 3 tv's thats $1200.00 plus the service and a Cable card for each
Roderic: How much recording capacity does the PC have?
TiVo Customer: and my Pc uses about 75 watts to operate unlimited tv's
TiVo Customer: I have a 2 tb external drive that gives me over 500 hours of HD and I can add drives as needed
TiVo Customer: it's closer to 600 hours and the unencrypted content can be burned right to disk to watch on any dvd player
Roderic: You might be interested to know that TiVo boxes can network with your computer as well. So if you'd like to try our award winning TiVo box, you can link it up and save shows to your computer as well.
TiVo Customer: but I still need a box for each tv if someone wants to watch different shows on more than 1 TV right
Roderic: That's correct.
Roderic: This does increase overall storage, of course.
Roderic: TiVo box recordings can also easily be managed online at http://www.tivo.com/spm. This is very useful if you have more than one unit to avoid duplicate recordings.
TiVo Customer: OK I just needed to see if there were any benefits to using a Tivo over what I have this is a very expensive option and I can access my tuner with a smart phone to manage recordings so I can't justify the cost
TiVo Customer: MCE warns me if there are any conflicts or if I am attempting to record a show I have
Roderic: Understood.
Roderic: Is there anything else I can help you with today?
TiVo Customer: nope just needed to verify my suspicions thanks
"

The Tivo is an Expensive option that provides nothing that I don't already get with out the Tivo Service fee, and at a much lower hardware cost! I asked the questions and Tivo provided he answer's if they offered free Hulu, Netflix, Sirius/XM, or some other service I am already paying for. I could see paying for Tivo but paying for a box for each TV when a XBOX 360 4 gig is $199.00 ea for each TV, and only needing 1 cable card I can't see any Justification in paying for Tivo service.
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Old 07-15-2012, 12:53 PM   #17
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saboken,

There are plenty of previous discussions in the forums here about Ceton and SiliconDust CableCARD discussions, it's not like you have found out "the big secret". A lot of the assumptions and generalizations you've made about both Tivo issues, and HTPC non-issues are just your opinions, Tivo units do not have the death knell you seem to feel they do.

I'm not sure what your agenda is, but trying to spread the gospel of non-Tivo solutions in a forum full of folks that love and support Tivo units isn't going to get you a lot of converts, most of us know the alternatives and have chosen to be with Tivo. I run both an HDHomerun prime and 2 Tivo units, I prefer the Tivos, but the HDR has its place.

p.s. paragraphs, sentences, and line breaks are your friends, please feel free to use them to help make your posts more readable; because so far they're just one giant mass of words that are not always understandable.
I'm not trying to convert anyone I'm just trying to understand the cost and as far as my typing as I said below I just worked a 20 hour shift and sometimes typing is hard when you need sleep! and I wasn't expecting all this resistance just looking for a logical answer for paying for something that is/can be free with a drastically lower ownership cost? I just had a chat with Tivo to try to justify the cost and explain if they were offering something I cant get with my setup and there are no benefits just a added cost! but I am done I made my point I am not employed by Ceton or SiliconDust! I am just a consumer like everyone else. I need sleep so I am done here.
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Old 07-15-2012, 12:57 PM   #18
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The Tivo is an Expensive option that provides nothing that I don't already get with out the Tivo Service fee, and at a much lower hardware cost! I asked the questions and Tivo provided he answer's if they offered free Hulu, Netflix, Sirius/XM, or some other service I am already paying for. I could see paying for Tivo but paying for a box for each TV when a XBOX 360 4 gig is $199.00 ea for each TV, and only needing 1 cable card I can't see any Justification in paying for Tivo service.
I get it, you're not feeling that the Tivo service, GUI, and product is of value TO YOU...I still have no idea why you felt the need to come in and start a thread with a vague reference to an FCC change and getting services for free.

There are plenty of other discussions on non-Tivo solutions in the forums already, but by far since this is a community of Tivo enthusiasts, you're going to get a pro-Tivo user base.

No problem, been nice meeting you, I'll wave on my trips through the interwebz.
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Old 07-15-2012, 02:17 PM   #19
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No problem, been nice meeting you, I'll wave on my trips through the interwebz.
saboken should really stay away from that bacon flavored vodka.
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Old 07-15-2012, 02:50 PM   #20
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You're very confused.
Indeed it would seem so. As far as I can tell, this "new" FCC reg of which he speaks might well be the Telecommunications Act of 1996. A 16 year old reg can hardly be called "new".

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There is no law providing for free electronic program guides. Microsoft licenses the guide information and makes it available, currently free of charge, to authorized users of the Windows Media Center software, based on this license: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/w...rms-of-service
Of particular interest might be this clause: "The EPG is provided to you free of charge. As noted above with respect to changes to the terms of this Agreement, Microsoft reserves the right to change prices, or institute new charges for the EPG, at any time with thirty (30) days' notice to you."

Does anyone want to bet "any time" will be when Microsoft terminates support of the version of Media Center being run by the user?

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Tivo sells a product that includes hardware and custom software. Their product requires a monthly fee or purchase of a lifetime service for the device. The device is self-contained and turnkey. TiVo provides access to many additional services such as Netflix, Amazon On Demand, Xfinity OnDemand (currently being rolled out to select markets) and other video delivery services.
More to the point, the TiVo business model sells the hardware at a loss, and allows the user a choice of either paying up front for the remainder of the cost of delivering the hardware and the forecasted cost of the EPG over the expected life of the unit, or else paying off the deficit over time.


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The law you keep referring to requires that the Cable Company provide you the right to connect your own equipment to their service and to make use of it to whatever degree that equipment supports and to not be charged for equipment rental that may be otherwise priced into their service plans that you do not have installed and do not want to have installed, and provides that the Cable Company provide the same conditional access device (CablleCARD) for your provided equipment that they would provide in their own.
That is not a single law. Most of that is covered under the 1996 regs, but the rental equipment charges relate to a ruling that came about last year - also hardly "new". Some of it is related to the regs that went into effect in 2007.

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Old 07-15-2012, 02:52 PM   #21
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The law that makes my DVR free to use I don't have to pay anyone to use the equipment I own, when you buy a Tivo you have to pay them a monthly service fee right .............L
Since when do you have to pay TiVo Monthly? You have an option to pay monthly, but you also have a pay once option which is lifetime service. Which also makes the most sense because a lifetime TiVo has a high resale value. When a new TiVo comes out, you sell the old lifetime TiVo to cover the bulk of the cost of a new TiVo with lifetime service.
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Old 07-15-2012, 02:56 PM   #22
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saboken should really stay away from that bacon flavored vodka.
Bacon flavored Vodka? I'm drawing a total blank on that one.
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Old 07-15-2012, 02:59 PM   #23
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Bacon flavored Vodka? I'm drawing a total blank on that one.
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Old 07-15-2012, 03:11 PM   #24
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How many pages back would you have to go for 2008 posts.
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Old 07-15-2012, 03:14 PM   #25
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Since when do you have to pay TiVo Monthly? You have an option to pay monthly, but you also have a pay once option which is lifetime service. Which also makes the most sense because a lifetime TiVo has a high resale value. When a new TiVo comes out, you sell the old lifetime TiVo to cover the bulk of the cost of a new TiVo with lifetime service.
The main point is, "ownership" in this case has a twist. Although legally one owns the TiVo up front, even if it is provided free of charge by TiVo, as some sales campaigns have done, the actual cost of the TiVo to TiVo, Inc. is much higher than the up-front cost of the TiVo. The consumer is then offered two options to pay off the additional cost to TiVo. One is to pay a monthly "subscription" fee. This fee is calculated to make TiVo a profit over the expected life of the unit. If one keeps the service for a period less than that which would pay off the unit, then one has obtained the unit and its capabilities for less than would otherwise have been the case. It's not all that much different than leasing a car, rather than buying it, except that at the termination of an automobile lease, one is not usually entitled to sell the car.

TiVo is not a charity, and they are fully entitled to recover their costs to deliver the unit plus a reasonable profit. The same is true of an HTPC, except that the profit obtained by Microsoft is vastly unreasonable. TiVo, however, has decided to allow the user reduce sticker shock by paying off a large part of the cost of delivering the unit on a monthly basis. It would be no different than if Microsoft offered the option of paying $8 a month to use Windows + Media Center, rather than forking out $200 up front.

TiVo also offers the user the option of simply purchasing the entire ball of wax right up front. This is PLS, and the purchase price of a TiVo with PLS gets TiVo a very slim profit. In general, an HTPC costs more than a TiVo with PLS. It also has none of what I consider the most important features of my TiVos. NONE
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Old 07-15-2012, 03:37 PM   #26
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I wouldn't exactly call Windows Media Center free anyway. You are paying for it and in Windows 8 you will be paying more for it than before.

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/w...ost-more/19805
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Old 07-15-2012, 04:03 PM   #27
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I wouldn't exactly call Windows Media Center free anyway. You are paying for it and in Windows 8 you will be paying more for it than before.

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/w...ost-more/19805
Well it is free with the $39.99 Windows 8 upgrade offer.
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Old 07-15-2012, 04:15 PM   #28
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Well it is free with the $39.99 Windows 8 upgrade offer.
Except they've gutted it all but out of Win8 and it's there only as a legacy afterthought.
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Old 07-16-2012, 07:45 AM   #29
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Well it is free with the $39.99 Windows 8 upgrade offer.
That sounds good. I was afraid I wouldn't be able to get windows 8 at a low price. The last few versions of windows, I only paid around $20 to $30 for each license for all my PCs. I was afraid with Windows 8 that might come to an end. $40 would be a little more expensive, and only be an upgrade, but I'll take that over paying $100 each for six licenses.
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Old 07-16-2012, 09:30 AM   #30
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I think it's apparent the saboken is either confused or sleep deprived. There is no new law that I'm aware of that lets consumers use their own hardware for receiving TV. Cablecard devices have been around for years as have cablecard tuners for a PC. ATI had one available years ago, but it was originally limited to use with a turnkey system. Windows Media Center has been around since the days of XP, circa 2005.

Saboken, do a search for my previous post history and you'll find that I've been promoting cablecard tuners and HTPCs for quite some time in these forums. Your post is hardly a revelation to anyone here.
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