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Old 02-07-2011, 06:22 PM   #1
wolfmeiister
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Slowness problems fixed - "Video Output Formats" was the problem

Hi All,

I have a Premiere standard which I've had for the last 8 months - it's had all the issues that others here have mentioned - it's been a love/hate relationship with this box - despite all its flaws its WAY better than the cable company's DVR which was an absolute piece of junk.

An issue I had been experiencing for a while was VERY slow response times for doing certain things such as changing channels, navigating menus and going to Tivo Central - hitting the Tivo button could take up to 10 seconds. I had enabled the SD menus to try to alleviate the problem, to no avail.

What I found was I had a whole bunch of "Video Output Formats" defined under Settings->Video->Video Output Formats - 480p, 720p, 1080i...

When I set the only mode to 1080i, the difference was dramatic - everything was a lot more responsive. I've switched back to the HD menu's and while still a bit slow, it's usable.

My understanding of this is that when you have multiple modes enabled, the Tivo outputs whatever mode the source is using and the TV switches between modes. If you only have one mode defined, the Tivo converts all video output to that mode. So it was likely that my TV was responsible for the slowness and not the Tivo. Verry happy!!!

I just upgraded my internal HD to 1.5Tb the other day and verry happy with that also!!! I thoroughly recommend it.

Cheers,

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Old 02-09-2011, 02:23 PM   #2
Mike_Wolf
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I've pretty much always had my tivo set to 1080i by default for two reasons. 1> because my lcd is native at 1920x1080 and it allows me to use the "full pixel" mode for better picture and no screen overscan.
2> my tv switching back and forth from 720p and 1080i on the fly causes the picture to blank out which annoys me.

I really hope your advice helps out people Thank you.
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Old 02-09-2011, 08:05 PM   #3
ThomasAlexHD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfmeiister View Post
...
When I set the only mode to 1080i, the difference was dramatic - everything was a lot more responsive. I've switched back to the HD menu's and while still a bit slow, it's usable.
...
My auto-setup defaulted to 1080i. Maybe that explains some of my puzzlement about the slow HD UI reports. It's not blazingly fast for me, but not nearly slow enough to have made me hunt for a solution either (never considered using standard menus - HD bigot!).

Interesting side note: for fun, I downloaded the i.TV app to my iPod Touch, which turns it into a Tivo remote of sorts (basic controls but a lot of them). I noticed immediately that commands issued from the Touch executed noticeably faster at the Tivo box than ones issued with the Tivo remote itself. Maybe the wireless feed gets to the Tivo processor more quickly than the IR link somehow...
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Old 02-09-2011, 11:15 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by ThomasAlexHD View Post
My auto-setup defaulted to 1080i. Maybe that explains some of my puzzlement about the slow HD UI reports. It's not blazingly fast for me, but not nearly slow enough to have made me hunt for a solution either (never considered using standard menus - HD bigot!).

Interesting side note: for fun, I downloaded the i.TV app to my iPod Touch, which turns it into a Tivo remote of sorts (basic controls but a lot of them). I noticed immediately that commands issued from the Touch executed noticeably faster at the Tivo box than ones issued with the Tivo remote itself. Maybe the wireless feed gets to the Tivo processor more quickly than the IR link somehow...
Also I found when I use the bluetooth remote that the tivo is much more responsive. Its an expensive solution but it is quite noticable.
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Old 02-10-2011, 07:10 AM   #5
Riverdome
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The rather consistent comments that remote control apps are faster than the native Tivo UI are upsetting. I have not yet upgraded to Premiere due to all the issues mentioned. But with iOS apps working so well it seems to once and for all eliminate the excuse that the hardware is not enabled properly or capable of running fast enough. So if not hardware the problem is then the Tivo software?! Isn't Tivo a software comapny first and foremost?
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Old 02-10-2011, 01:54 PM   #6
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you would think so since the tivo software is run on non tivo equipment, such as the sony models and the toshiba, humax, and pioneer dvd recorder models, and lets not forgot the motorola dvr's from comcast.
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Old 02-10-2011, 03:14 PM   #7
MrSkippy53
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I to have the I.Tv and have used the remote to control my TiVo. What would be nice is a IOS remote app for TiVo that included a full keyboard option.
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Old 02-10-2011, 05:38 PM   #8
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I to have the I.Tv and have used the remote to control my TiVo. What would be nice is a IOS remote app for TiVo that included a full keyboard option.
Kind of like "DVR Remote" for $3? www.stutsmansoft.com/dvrremote/

If you have an iPad, I hear the Tivo app is pretty nice as well.
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Old 02-12-2011, 01:18 PM   #9
ThomasAlexHD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverdome View Post
The rather consistent comments that remote control apps are faster than the native Tivo UI are upsetting. I have not yet upgraded to Premiere due to all the issues mentioned. But with iOS apps working so well it seems to once and for all eliminate the excuse that the hardware is not enabled properly or capable of running fast enough. So if not hardware the problem is then the Tivo software?! Isn't Tivo a software comapny first and foremost?
I played with this some more and now I think the HD menus respond about the same for me using the Tivo controller or the i.TV app. Also, I was not suspecting that the IOS apps somehow provided better software but that they were invoking the main Tivo software commands quicker than the IR from the remote. So the edge I thought I saw was in initial responsiveness to a command, not to how fast Tivo executed it once received.

i.TV also doesn't have a volume control on its Tivo panel that I've noticed. This is a disadvantage over the real remote.
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Old 02-12-2011, 06:32 PM   #10
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Kind of like "DVR Remote" for $3? www.stutsmansoft.com/dvrremote/

If you have an iPad, I hear the Tivo app is pretty nice as well.
I've used this before, its good, but it doesn't give me the tactile feel the real remote does, also it doesn't give me volume control. Also the search features dont work well with the HD menus. There is alot of rubberbanding when entering a long string of texts.
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Old 02-13-2011, 01:20 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfmeiister View Post
...My understanding of this is that when you have multiple modes enabled, the Tivo outputs whatever mode the source is using and the TV switches between modes. If you only have one mode defined, the Tivo converts all video output to that mode. So it was likely that my TV was responsible for the slowness and not the Tivo. Verry happy!!!
...
You have it exactly right. I gather you never had a Series 3 or you would have learned that before.

The TV will adjust to the output but it takes a few seconds. Add in the time it takes for the TiVo and TV to to do the HDCP handshake and decide if you're worthy to view your content and you can be there all day.
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Old 02-14-2011, 04:42 PM   #12
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This isn't the cause of the general sluggishness.
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Old 02-15-2011, 04:12 AM   #13
collven
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The only problem with setting the output to 1080i only is that your tivo is doing the scaling instead of your tv. I'm sure most of us with newer 1080p tvs have a better scaler in the television than the one in the tivo. Has anyone done a comparison to see if there is a difference in picture quality?
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Old 02-15-2011, 08:09 AM   #14
wolfmeiister
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I just did a test where I set my Premiere back to SD UI and enabled 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p. It's almost unusable. If I'm watching an HD program and hit the Tivo button, it takes 7-8 seconds for the Tivo central page to appear (in 720p). I'm sure it's the TV switching modes.

As soon as I get rid of 480p, 720p, 1080p, things are fast and responsive. SD UI is very zappy, HD UI is slow but usable.

I'm not too worried about whether my TV has better upscaling than the Tivo, as I don't watch much SD content anyways...
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Old 03-03-2011, 04:40 PM   #15
aaroncgi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfmeiister View Post
I just did a test where I set my Premiere back to SD UI and enabled 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p. It's almost unusable. If I'm watching an HD program and hit the Tivo button, it takes 7-8 seconds for the Tivo central page to appear (in 720p). I'm sure it's the TV switching modes.

As soon as I get rid of 480p, 720p, 1080p, things are fast and responsive. SD UI is very zappy, HD UI is slow but usable.

I'm not too worried about whether my TV has better upscaling than the Tivo, as I don't watch much SD content anyways...
Out of curiosity, why would one set the resolution to 1080i instead of 1080p? Is the deinterlacer in the Tivo really poor compared to than in a 1080p display? Or is that what's slowing it down? I'm assuming your TV is native 1080p rather than 1080i?

We'll be getting a new TV this weekend (1080P of course), which brings up all kinds of different settings that we never had to worry about before.

Edit: Just looked in the Premiere manual, and there doesn't appear to be a 1080p output mode, just 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i. So I presume your postings meant to say that you disabled 480i, 480p, and 720p modes, which would make sense.

Second edit: Hmm, other posts seem to clearly indicate there are both 1080i and 1080p selections. I would have sworn there were only four video selections on our Premiere, not five. Oh well, seems most people think it's better to let the TV do the upscaling anyhow, not the Tivo - though that scenario doesn't work for the OP in this case. I guess I'll just have to try out both ways with our new TV and see what happens. At least the Tivo will output 720/1080 on component video, which gives it a big leg up over upscaling DVD or Blu-Ray players.

Last edited by aaroncgi : 03-03-2011 at 05:02 PM.
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Old 03-04-2011, 02:38 PM   #16
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1080p means 1080p24, not 1080p60 in this context, and it is only applied to specific content. I want to say only Amazon VOD @ the moment. I am guessing this is done for many reasons, including, but not limited to:

- Limited compatibility with existing TVs. If this were an option, it would almost certainly lead to lots of support calls by people who have 1080p TVs that cannot accept 1080p signals, etc.
- Minimizing processor overhead. Especially with the current situation of one core being disabled, and nobody particularly complaining about the units being speed-demons, I wouldn't think they would want to do any more scaling to high resolutions than necessary. Granted, if this wasn't a major issue, it would almost certainly lead to a perceived improvement in performance for those that could use it.
- Reducing costs by leaving out more expensive scaling/processing hardware.
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Old 03-05-2011, 07:59 AM   #17
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The Premiere can display content that is already stored as 1080p24 in its native format but cannot upscale or convert other content to that format on the fly. Amazon VOD is one way, pushing a mp4 file to the tivo is another.

1080i is the highest resolution that tivo can convert all media to on the fly.

I also noticed a significant improvment in the UI experience on Tivo when I set it to output everything to 1080i rather than native. Comparisons show the conversion in the tivo is every bit as good as the one in my projectors so no real loss letting the tivo convert.

I gave up on the 1080p thing too. The tivo was just too flakey switching back and fourth....or not.
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Old 07-18-2013, 04:40 PM   #18
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My menus have always been slow too. This Unit is nowhere near as good as the DirectTivo units that I've had in the past.

I just started having an issue where if I have 720p selected as an option, the menu shows in that resolution, but it stretched/zoomed in for some reason. It is not my TV. Forcing it to not use 720p sort of *fixes* the issue so I can see the whole menu again, but 1080i flickers way too much. I'd rather the Tivo output the native signal and let my TV display it as intended.

I'm really disappointed with my Tivo Premier Elite. There is absolutely nothing elite about it. This is just one of many complaints about the interface and user experience that I have for this unit.

I'll leave mine set to only output in 1080i and 1080p and watch Netflix from my XBOX 360 (much better interface and experience anyway). I might even turn off 1080p since there aren't many (if any) broadcast channels out there that are delivering 1080p through Comcast that I know of.

It looks like I'll be researching alternatives for a replacement since I definitely won't be buying another one of these if it ends up dying.
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Old 07-18-2013, 09:30 PM   #19
nooneuknow
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Here is some info I thought may be good for anybody to know, before they go switching to a Fixed 1080i or a Hybrid 1080i with 1080P/24 TiVo output resolution:

I can't set my TiVo to either a "fixed 1080i"-only or a "Hybrid 1080i,1080P/24"-only output setting, if I want to use it for Netflix.

For some reason, if I do this, I will wind up staring, for eternity, at an all-black screen. I turned 720P back on, and all worked (as good as can be expected), again.

This problem presented itself when the new Netflix client, or some small update to it, was installed in one of the previous TiVo software updates.

I wanted a "Fixed" resolution to get rid of delays/jitter/audio drop-outs, when switching between TiVo menus, and switching between other things. If I want Netflix to work, I can't have that.

EDIT/ADD: THIS MAY HAVE BEEN RESOLVED BY THE CURRENT UPDATE, or it only happens with my four Premieres, with their specific model and hardware revisions (Original model TCD746320 Premieres).

Last edited by nooneuknow : 07-19-2013 at 09:26 PM. Reason: edited due to unpopular demands
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Old 07-19-2013, 11:10 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by lordtakuban View Post
I just started having an issue where if I have 720p selected as an option, the menu shows in that resolution, but it stretched/zoomed in for some reason. It is not my TV.
And you know it's not your TV because...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
You can't set your TiVo to either a "fixed 1080i"-only or a "Hybrid 1080i,1080P/24"-only output setting, if you want to use it for Netflix.
1080i Fixed + Netflix is working fine for me.
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Old 07-19-2013, 08:07 PM   #21
nooneuknow
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And you know it's not your TV because...?

1080i Fixed + Netflix is working fine for me.
I tried doing this (replicating this) behavior, on four Premier TCD746320 2-Tuner units, via HDMI, to every brand of TV or Monitor with an HDMI input in the house. It was a successful experiment. I figured four units, and the variety of TVs (as well as HDMI cables) would be enough to prove it not to be a one-off anomaly. I saw no reason to even think it could be isolated to ONLY my four units, which is often the pushback punch line I get when I share what they do, or don't do.
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