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Old 07-19-2012, 10:36 AM   #1
tootal2
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I will be leaving tivo soon

I been using windows media center with a 4 tuner ceton card and a 2 tuner antenna card for 6 tuners and a 3 terabite harddrive.

I never planed to leave tivo. but i built a very fast gaming pc to
replace my old and slow ps3. Then i wanted to see if my computer could replace my tivo hd and my blu-ray player. and it could.

my windows 7 computer replaced my ps3, blu-ray player and tivo hd.
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Old 07-19-2012, 11:09 AM   #2
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Enjoy your headache!
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Old 07-19-2012, 12:20 PM   #3
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Its not a headache. the only problem i have is with hibernate mode. Sometimes my computer will wake up from hibernate mode to record a show and lock up. but it only happens every 2 weeks. I think its my video driver.


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Enjoy your headache!

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Old 07-19-2012, 12:38 PM   #4
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Personally, that is the kind of headache I have a tivo for. I'm guessing you did not have lifetime on your tivo box.

You are doing all of these activities with one PC? Or are you using the new one for games and the old one as a DVR?
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Old 07-19-2012, 01:39 PM   #5
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Old 07-19-2012, 01:39 PM   #6
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Its not a headache. the only problem i have is with hibernate mode. Sometimes my computer will wake up from hibernate mode to record a show and lock up. but it only happens every 2 weeks. I think its my video driver.
Hibernation mode always causes me probems. The first thing I do when I get a new computer is turn it off.
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Old 07-19-2012, 09:18 PM   #7
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Its not a headache. the only problem i have is with hibernate mode. Sometimes my computer will wake up from hibernate mode to record a show and lock up. but it only happens every 2 weeks. I think its my video driver.
So, you miss shows once every 2 weeks?

That's FAR too often.

BTW, I actually like the IDEA of using something like this, but I like tweaking things. If only some of this competition actually got "good enough" to seriously give TiVo a run for its money, that would be great.

In other words, the Ceton DVR thing coming out some eon is intriguing to me, but hopefully it is more thoroughly integrated/tested that it will be much more like a consumer electronics device..

Obviously your PC can't play PS3 games, so it doesn't really replace that.
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Old 07-19-2012, 10:55 PM   #8
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Its a lifetime tivo but its costing me 4.00 a month for the cable cards. it still running right now. but i havent used it in months.

I might buy a tivo in the future if has 4 tuners and ota

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Personally, that is the kind of headache I have a tivo for. I'm guessing you did not have lifetime on your tivo box.

You are doing all of these activities with one PC? Or are you using the new one for games and the old one as a DVR?

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Old 07-20-2012, 07:33 AM   #9
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So, you miss shows once every 2 weeks?

That's FAR too often.

BTW, I actually like the IDEA of using something like this, but I like tweaking things. If only some of this competition actually got "good enough" to seriously give TiVo a run for its money, that would be great.

In other words, the Ceton DVR thing coming out some eon is intriguing to me, but hopefully it is more thoroughly integrated/tested that it will be much more like a consumer electronics device..

Obviously your PC can't play PS3 games, so it doesn't really replace that.
I was thinking the same thing on the PS3. They just dont release the same games for both these days
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Old 07-20-2012, 09:55 AM   #10
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almost all games are released on the pc. but some games are ps3 only or xbox only. i wont be buying anymore ps3 games i just buy them for the pc.

the ps3 is 6 year old technology


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I was thinking the same thing on the PS3. They just dont release the same games for both these days

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Old 07-20-2012, 10:07 AM   #11
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Does it really matter if the system is 6 years old? Games are developed and tailored for the system specs so it does not really matter how old it is
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Old 07-20-2012, 12:21 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by tootal2 View Post
I been using windows media center with a 4 tuner ceton card and a 2 tuner antenna card for 6 tuners and a 3 terabite harddrive.

I never planed to leave tivo. but i built a very fast gaming pc to
replace my old and slow ps3. Then i wanted to see if my computer could replace my tivo hd and my blu-ray player. and it could.

my windows 7 computer replaced my ps3, blu-ray player and tivo hd.
Nice. I've got a Ceton InfiniTV4, an HDHomeRun Prime, two Hauppauge 2250's and a dual tuner HDHomeRun for a total of seven digital cable tuners and six ATSC tuners. Both HDHomeRuns are shared with other PCs. I've also got a 21TB server with about 1,000 Blu-Rays and DVDs that can be shared with any PC in the house. All of my TVs except one are connected to individual HTPCs.

FWIW, a properly configured HTPC is no more problematic than a Tivo. Mine's been up and running with no issues for well over two years. The S3 Tivo has been unplugged for months and is not missed one bit.
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Old 07-20-2012, 01:12 PM   #13
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Enjoy your headache!
This is so true. I just came back to TiVo from a setup very similar to yours. I got so tired of the noise of a PC, the unreliability (6-8 missed recordings EVERY week, pages of notifications daily about tuners not available for no reason).
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Old 07-20-2012, 02:32 PM   #14
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My WMC pc works great. I built it in November. Wife likes it. The 360 extender on a 2nd TV also has worked great - much better than I thought.

I probably would still own a TiVo Premiere if the menus had been responsive.

WMC ain't perfect. A few hiccups over 8 months of use. Nothing I couldn't fix in a minute or two. But anyone without computer knowledge might not be so lucky.

I didn't find it ideal to use as a gaming pc and a dvr though. The gaming video card was loud and probably not power efficient under small loads. Not sure gaming mixed with the dvr part either. I had the feeling that they messed with each other a bit at least in my experience. Ad it made it less wife-proof. So now I have a separate gaming machine and WMC pc.
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Old 07-20-2012, 06:32 PM   #15
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This is so true. I just came back to TiVo from a setup very similar to yours. I got so tired of the noise of a PC, the unreliability (6-8 missed recordings EVERY week, pages of notifications daily about tuners not available for no reason).
Sorry to hear you had issues with your setup. Chances are you had some bad drivers or hardware incompatibilities or just tried using components that were outdated. I see people trying to build an HTPC out of an old computer or box of old components they have lying around and wonder why it doesn't work like they expect. I've had issues with HTPC builds in the past and it always turned out to be the result of faulty hardware. Most HTPCs I've put together work just fine with no issues. There are numerous guides for building HTPCs with lists of recommended components posted in the Home Theater Computer forum at the AVS Forums in the sticky threads. Check out Assassin's HTPC blog for a comprehensive list of guides he put together for configuring any type of hardware and software setup in an HTPC.

With today's hardware it's almost inconceivable that anyone can't get a working Media Center PC as long as the hardware is functioning normally. Mine's been every bit as reliable as any Tivo I've ever owned. PC noise can be greatly attenuated by using fan controllers or quieter fans. Check out silentpcreview.com for a long list of recommended hardware to build a dead silent PC.

The tuner not available message is very common, but it doesn't usually result in missed recordings unless you've got some flaky tuners. Sometimes it takes a few seconds for the tuner to be initialized by Media Center before it can tune to a channel. PC tuners tend to change channels a bit slower than most so the response time can lag a bit. If it can't tune the channel immediately when prompted to do so you'll get the error message. Media Center will keep polling all available tuners until it finds one that can tune to the channel. I get the message all the time but I haven't missed any recordings. In fact, in the five years or so that I've been using HTPCs for recording I can't recall ever missing more than a handful of recordings. The ones I did miss were a result of USB tuners dropping offline due to a flaky external USB hub.

Last edited by mr.unnatural : 07-21-2012 at 06:51 AM.
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Old 07-20-2012, 10:46 PM   #16
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some people think the desktop pc is obsolete. they sure are wrong.

im tootal2 on steam

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Originally Posted by mr.unnatural View Post
Sorry to hear you had issues with your setup. Chances are you had some bad drivers or hardware incompatibilities or just tried using components that were outdated. I see people trying to build an HTPC out of an old computer or box of old components they have lying around and wonder why it doesn't work like they expect. I've had issues with HTPC builds in the past and it always turned out to be the result of faulty hardware. Most HTPCs I've put together work just fine with no issues. There are numerous guides for building HTPCs with lists of recommended components posted in the Home Theater Computer forum at the AVS Forums in the sticky threads. Check out Assassin's HTPC blog for a comprehensive list of guides he put together for configuring any type of hardware and software setup in an HTPC.

With today's hardware it's almost inconceivable that anyone can't get a working Media Center PC as long as the hardware is functioning normally. Mine's been every bit as reliable as any Tivo I've ever owned. PC noise can be greatly attenuated by using fan controllers or quieter fans. Check out silentpcreview.com for a long list of recommended hardware to build a dead silent PC.

The tuner not available message is very common, but it doesn't usually result in missed recordings unless you've got some flaky tuners. Sometimes it takes a few seconds for the tuner to be initialized by Media Center before it can tune to a channel. PC tuners tend to change channels a bit slower than most so the response time can lag a bit. If it can't tune the channel immediately when prompted to do so you'll get the error message. Media Center will keep polling all available tuners until it finds one that can tune to the channel. I get the message all the time but I haven't missed any recordings. In fact, in the five years or so that I've been using HTPCs for recording I can't recall ever missing more than a handful of recordings. The ones I did miss were a result of USB tuners dropping offline due to a flaky external USB hub.


Last edited by tootal2 : 07-20-2012 at 10:59 PM.
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Old 07-21-2012, 06:49 AM   #17
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Desktop PCs aren't going anywhere. Laptops aren't practical for many purposes and tablets have limited uses. Desktops are less expensive and easier to maintain and upgrade.
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Old 07-22-2012, 10:30 AM   #18
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I moved my tivo hd to my bedroom for a few more months till the ceton echo comes out.
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Old 07-23-2012, 12:28 AM   #19
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I scrapped my Media Center setup after I got tired of it constantly recording repeats. It wasn't smart enough to know it recorded the 8:00 PM showing so that it wouldn't record the 11:00 PM showing. As a result I kept missing shows I wanted because it was recording the same show multiple times. Then of course there were the repeat recordings because the guide data was crappy yet TiVo had correct data.

I also got tired of Media Center crashing when trying to use the advanced conflict resolution. Apparently this bug has been around since the original Media Center.

The final straw was when it killed the CableCARD. One day the CableCARD stopped working and the four cards I tried after that all stopped working after a couple days. I finally pulled the tuner and turned off Media Center. We haven't missed it either. At this point I don't even know if we will consider the Ceton Q since Microsoft clearly has no plans on ever doing anything with Media Center to improve the experience.
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Old 07-23-2012, 06:12 AM   #20
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The repeat recording issue is one of WMC's biggest flaws, IMO. Not a prob if you have enough tuners, but still a pain in the butt because you always have to delete stupid stuff that it thinks it should record because of bad guide data or whatever.
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Old 07-23-2012, 06:12 AM   #21
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I probably would still own a TiVo Premiere if the menus had been responsive.
The SD menus are very responsive, so that's not a real reason to leave. I agree that Tivo either blew it with Flash or don't have good enough programmers for it on the HD side.
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Old 07-23-2012, 06:35 AM   #22
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Maybe I'm just lucky, but in 8 months WMC has never recorded a repeat or crashed. It also seems to do a better job on first-run SPs when an episode gets cancelled at the last minute and rescheduled for a later airing.
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Old 07-23-2012, 06:51 AM   #23
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WMC only records what you tell it to, just like Tivo does. Don't blame WMC because the guide data doesn't flag a show as a repeat. WMC records what it believes to be a new airing of a show based on what it's being told. If it's a flaw then Tivo suffers from the exact same problem. Tivo will record any show that's not flagged as a repeat unless it aired within the past 28 days. I just love how people blame WMC for the exact same issues that a Tivo has, yet they seem to think that Tivo's s**t doesn't stink.

FWIW, I routinely look at my list of upcoming recordings and weed out anything that I know is a repeat (like the weekly Deadliest Catch marathons), even if the guide data doesn't flag it. It only takes a minute or two to go through the list, especially if I do it as part of a daily routine. It's easier than having to delete shows after they've already been recorded. I tend to overlook issues like this because it's only a minor annoyance. The fact that I'm only paying for cablecard rental and not the Tivo service makes it so much easier to deal with.
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:14 AM   #24
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Where does a PC get the guide data? Is it free?
How does it compare to the TiVo data (which used to and may still come from Tribune)?
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Old 07-23-2012, 11:18 AM   #25
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WMC only records what you tell it to, just like Tivo does. Don't blame WMC because the guide data doesn't flag a show as a repeat. WMC records what it believes to be a new airing of a show based on what it's being told. If it's a flaw then Tivo suffers from the exact same problem. Tivo will record any show that's not flagged as a repeat unless it aired within the past 28 days. I just love how people blame WMC for the exact same issues that a Tivo has, yet they seem to think that Tivo's s**t doesn't stink.
The 28 day rule makes it an entirely different issue on WMC, and is one reason why it may not be as accurate for repeats as Tivo.

The point remains that WMC guide updates are often not as timely as Tivo's which contributes to the problem - e.g. generic Discovery eps don't get correct guide data so they get recorded in WMC, but they almost always get the correct data on Tivo before it actually records. Or the wrong show is in the slot and never gets updated.

I'm not the only one who has noticed this, btw, so it has nothing to do with sanctifying Tivo.

These guys see it too.

And so do these.

The big advantage for WMC is that the guide data costs nothing vs. paying for it on Tivo, but you get what you pay for more times than not on Tivo.

Last edited by slowbiscuit : 07-23-2012 at 11:27 AM.
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Old 07-23-2012, 11:57 AM   #26
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It looks the same to me. but a few times i had only 3 days of guied data left on wmc before the guide info got updated. but that problem seems to be fixed. Tivo tells me i have o days of guide info left but has 2 weeks of info.

also wishlist are a lot better on tivo


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Where does a PC get the guide data? Is it free?
How does it compare to the TiVo data (which used to and may still come from Tribune)?
-mj

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Old 07-23-2012, 01:01 PM   #27
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The 28 day rule makes it an entirely different issue on WMC, and is one reason why it may not be as accurate for repeats as Tivo.

The point remains that WMC guide updates are often not as timely as Tivo's which contributes to the problem - e.g. generic Discovery eps don't get correct guide data so they get recorded in WMC, but they almost always get the correct data on Tivo before it actually records. Or the wrong show is in the slot and never gets updated.

The big advantage for WMC is that the guide data costs nothing vs. paying for it on Tivo, but you get what you pay for more times than not on Tivo.
The main reason I see why WMC records repeats is that the guide data sometimes contains a generic description rather than specific metadata about the episode that's being aired. If there's no repeat flag in the data, WMC sees it as a new episode and records it. The thing is, if a Tivo sees this very same data you should get the same result. There's got to be something else the Tivo is flagging in order to make the 28-day rule work.

From the Zap2it website:

Quote:
Zap2it is a product of Tribune Media Services, which is America's leading source of entertainment listings data. TMS listings are featured in most newspapers and many on-screen programming guides, personal video recorders and top web portals. We take the TMS data and mix it with original content and services to create a unique Zap2it experience.
Both your Tivo and WMC connect on a daily basis to update guide data so I don't see how either one could be more timely than the other. With WMC I can download guide data updates on demand. With a Tivo I can connect and maybe get a guide data update if I'm lucky, but there's no guarantee it will happen if I connect before the appointed time. There is obviously something going on with the consistency between sources. I can only assume that WMC and Tivo connect to different web interfaces with Zap2it/Tribune Media to get the guide data, with one being more current than the other.

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Originally Posted by tootal2 View Post
It looks the same to me. but a few times i had only 3 days of guied data left on wmc before the guide info got updated. but that problem seems to be fixed. Tivo tells me i have o days of guide info left but has 2 weeks of info.
That was an issue with Zap2it that was resolved before anyone ran out of guide data.

Quote:
also wishlist are a lot better on tivo
This has already been established.

Last edited by mr.unnatural : 07-23-2012 at 01:14 PM.
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Old 07-24-2012, 06:15 AM   #28
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It has nothing to do with how often Tivo and WMC connect to the mothership to get the data, and everything to do with the quality of it. And, the WMC running out of guide data problem has been a recurring issue off and on for months now.

Bottom line is that Tivo is better here whether you choose to accept it or not, but WMC data is free.
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Old 07-24-2012, 07:32 AM   #29
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It has nothing to do with how often Tivo and WMC connect to the mothership to get the data, and everything to do with the quality of it. And, the WMC running out of guide data problem has been a recurring issue off and on for months now.

Bottom line is that Tivo is better here whether you choose to accept it or not, but WMC data is free.
I'm not sure where you're getting that it's been a recurring issue because I've never run out of guide data with WMC. There was an issue about six months ago where some people had either run out or were about to run out of data. It turned out to be a problem with Zap2it that was resolved within a few days after being reported. I've since seen a few instances where I may have only had 7-10 days worth of guide data, but it never fell below that. I've had the same issues with Tivo's guide data from time to time, which would make sense since both DVRs get their data from the same source.

The question remains, if both DVRs get guide data from Tribune Media/Zap2it, why would one be better than the other? Someone please explain this to me because I'm stumped.
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Old 07-24-2012, 08:23 AM   #30
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This is so true. I just came back to TiVo from a setup very similar to yours. I got so tired of the noise of a PC, the unreliability (6-8 missed recordings EVERY week, pages of notifications daily about tuners not available for no reason).
I don't know about missed recordings. Even back in 2001 when I first setup a couple of HTPCs for my HD recordings, I didn't miss them as long as the program still came on at the time I set. I would think now, as long as the guide data is right, missed recordings would be rare. The last time I used HTPCs for HD recordings was 2006 when I had several ATSC USB tuners to just mess around with and it recorded everything just fine. But the entire reason I drifted away from HTPCs for HD recording was when the HDTiVo came out in 2004 for DirecTV so I shifted most of my HD recording to the TiVo. And in 2006 when I got my S3 boxes, it killed my use of the HTPCs. Especially since I had already stopped watching DVDs in 2005 there was no use for my HTPCs anymore since I used stand alone players for my BD and HD DVD watching so I didn't need my HTPCs for watching from my SDI DVD players.
I prefer to use the TiVo over HTPCs But the HTPC should be very reliable too
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