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Old 06-13-2012, 01:23 PM   #1
jlin
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Upgrade 2TB hard drive suggestions? Green or Regular? 5900 or 7200RPM ?

I'm trying to decide between the two Seagate drives on Amazon

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ls_o00_s00_i00

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...=ATVPDKIKX0DER

Do I need to do anything special to fix the 'sleeping-wake up' problem associated with the WD Green drives?
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Old 06-13-2012, 02:41 PM   #2
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I thought you were getting Seagate drives?(I have no idea about the drives in the TiVos since I have not messed with my own drives with the Premieres) At least they are finally below $100. Another 30% to 35% drop and they will finally be back to pre-flood levels.
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Old 06-13-2012, 02:55 PM   #3
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Per upgrade instruction, there's a particular procedure that needs to be done to WD Green drives to work as an upgrade drive in Tivo.

I'm just wonder if Seagate drives would just be plug-and-play.
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Old 06-13-2012, 03:46 PM   #4
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The WD20EURS is the way too go, Copy-Expand-Supersize, no need to mess with adjustments.

This is what is used in the Elite/XL4
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...73#post8747373

http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digita...dp/B0042AG9V8/
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Old 06-13-2012, 04:55 PM   #5
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ST2000DL003 is currently $99 on Amazon

Thanks for the tip on WD20EURS..it's $125 though.
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Old 06-13-2012, 05:10 PM   #6
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ST2000DL003 is currently $99 on Amazon

Thanks for the tip on WD20EURS..it's $125 though.
There have been reported issues in these forums with Seagate drives. The general concensus is that the WD drives are the way to go, even at a higher cost. What you are referring to is the need to run WDIDLE on the green WD drives that have the Intelli-park "feature". It's a free utility but requires that you open your desktop PC and connect the new drive directly to the motherboard in order to run it.
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Old 06-13-2012, 05:28 PM   #7
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but requires that you open your desktop PC and connect the new drive directly to the motherboard in order to run it.
Opening up your case, disconnecting the system drive(s) and directly connecting the old and new TiVo drives is the best and fasted way to use JMFS anyway, and requires no purchase of USB connectors.
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Old 06-13-2012, 05:43 PM   #8
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So no need to run WDIDLE for WD20EURS?
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Old 06-13-2012, 05:50 PM   #9
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So no need to run WDIDLE for WD20EURS?
No need.
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Old 06-13-2012, 06:02 PM   #10
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I'm updating two HD Tivo's I've picked up from Craiglist for under $50.

Should I keep both of the original 160GB hard drives? Or is ONE original drive sufficient for backup?

I believe the drives are not married to the units and they're basically identical, especially after downloading the latest update?

Last edited by jlin : 06-13-2012 at 06:09 PM.
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Old 06-13-2012, 07:41 PM   #11
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I'm updating two HD Tivo's I've picked up from Craiglist for under $50.

Should I keep both of the original 160GB hard drives? Or is ONE original drive sufficient for backup?

I believe the drives are not married to the units and they're basically identical, especially after downloading the latest update?
If you don't use the original drive you will have to do a clear and delete before you can use it. You can't view content recorded from one box on another by putting the drive in another box. I always put my original drives away so I have them if needed. And if I sell the box I typically include the original drive as well to increase the value of the sale price.
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Old 06-13-2012, 11:30 PM   #12
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ST2000DL003 is currently $99 on Amazon

Thanks for the tip on WD20EURS..it's $125 though.
I think NewEgg has it $10 cheaper right now, but if you read the feedback on the NewEgg page for that model, go down to where a guy talks about the firmware change from CC32 to something else.

It's not yet known for certain what problems, if any, "advanced format" 4K sector drives cause for TiVos, and you can't count on getting good reliable info from drive makers as to which model implements it in what way if it has it.

I got a couple of those drives with the old CC32 firmware from Best Buy just before the flooding in Thailand drove prices up.

Tried one in an S3 HD and it seemed to want to reboot a lot.

Swapped in a WD20EADS and haven't had any problems since, although if they still make that model number they may have changed them to advanced format without warning.

7200RPM is overkill, all it gets you in a TiVo is extra heat, and maybe extra power drain.
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Old 06-14-2012, 09:27 AM   #13
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I recently got $99 lifetime on my TiVo HD so have decided to keep it for a long time, even if it means replacing the power supply some day. I've had a WD10EADS drive in it for almost 3 years now with no known problems -- runs cool and quiet. I am leery of the "Advanced Format" drives, even though I know a number of people have upgraded TiVos with them and reported success. As I understand it, even when they function correctly they are actually forced to do 3 seeks instead of 1 when emulating non-Advanced Format drives, as they must do in a TiVo. I don't like that idea.

So I decided to buy another WD10EADS to have on hand when my current one fails. (I'm happy with 1 TB.) From looking at the WD website, Amazon, NewEgg, etc., I get the definite impression it's getting harder and harder to find the WD##EADS drives (new). Amazon lists one but estimated delivery time is many weeks. One of their "storefront" suppliers had them and supposedly had them in stock. But when I contacted them, they said they were out of stock. (So much for the accuracy of their Amazon storefront page.)

I finally ended up ordering one from an eBay store site for $96, free shipping. I contacted them and found that, although new, the drive does NOT have the WD warranty (2 yrs I believe) -- but they provide their own 180-day warranty. I plan to perform the WD extended diagnostic test on the drive as soon as I get it.

Seems like upgraders are in a somewhat problematic situation at this point with this Advanced Format thing.
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Old 06-14-2012, 11:11 AM   #14
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Opening up your case, disconnecting the system drive(s) and directly connecting the old and new TiVo drives is the best and fasted way to use JMFS anyway, and requires no purchase of USB connectors.
True for JMFS but I have only run WinMFS and MFSTools. Can't see ever needing anything larger than 1TB. USB adapters are cheap and allow me to also backup and restore images for older IDE drives.
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Old 06-14-2012, 03:10 PM   #15
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I recently got $99 lifetime on my TiVo HD so have decided to keep it for a long time, even if it means replacing the power supply some day. I've had a WD10EADS drive in it for almost 3 years now with no known problems -- runs cool and quiet. I am leery of the "Advanced Format" drives, even though I know a number of people have upgraded TiVos with them and reported success. As I understand it, even when they function correctly they are actually forced to do 3 seeks instead of 1 when emulating non-Advanced Format drives, as they must do in a TiVo. I don't like that idea.

So I decided to buy another WD10EADS to have on hand when my current one fails. (I'm happy with 1 TB.) From looking at the WD website, Amazon, NewEgg, etc., I get the definite impression it's getting harder and harder to find the WD##EADS drives (new). Amazon lists one but estimated delivery time is many weeks. One of their "storefront" suppliers had them and supposedly had them in stock. But when I contacted them, they said they were out of stock. (So much for the accuracy of their Amazon storefront page.)

I finally ended up ordering one from an eBay store site for $96, free shipping. I contacted them and found that, although new, the drive does NOT have the WD warranty (2 yrs I believe) -- but they provide their own 180-day warranty. I plan to perform the WD extended diagnostic test on the drive as soon as I get it.

Seems like upgraders are in a somewhat problematic situation at this point with this Advanced Format thing.
I hate to have to tell you this but recently somewhere I saw someone say they got a recently manufactured 10EADS and it was AF now.

The point of which I don't get, as it's not needed for anything up to 2TB.

Maybe you'll get lucky and get some NOS.

What you're paying for that 10EADS is about what I paid for the 20EADS I got a year or so ago, pre-flood

And they were getting hard to find then.
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Old 06-14-2012, 03:14 PM   #16
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So I'm confused.

Should I get 20EADS or WD20EURS ?
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Old 06-14-2012, 03:20 PM   #17
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So I'm confused.

Should I get 20EADS or WD20EURS ?
Post links for from where you'd get them and we'll see if we can tell if they're AF or not.

I'm surprised anyone still has any 20EADSes for sale.
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Old 06-14-2012, 03:24 PM   #18
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I'm updating two HD Tivo's I've picked up from Craiglist for under $50.

Should I keep both of the original 160GB hard drives? Or is ONE original drive sufficient for backup?

I believe the drives are not married to the units and they're basically identical, especially after downloading the latest update?
They're married to the units in that each expects to find itself in the TiVo with a TSN that matches what they have in their database.

They'll work in the other one, you just have to go through the whole green screen delete everything routine.

Better to set each TiVo up the way you want it, then copy its drive to a bigger one, and keep each's original drive on the shelf as a backup/diagnostic tool.

Get a labelmaker or Sharpie and note the TSN of each TiVo on its drive to avoid confusion in future.
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Old 06-15-2012, 10:03 AM   #19
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I hate to have to tell you this but recently somewhere I saw someone say they got a recently manufactured 10EADS and it was AF now.
.........
I've started an email case ticket with WD support asking if this is true. I also asked whether, if it is true, you can tell which units have AF by the serial number.

I can't even find a spec page for the WD10EADS on the WD site. It gives every appearance of a discontinued product. It does say that all AF drives will say so on their labels. Adding AF strikes me as too major a change to not involve assigning a different model number -- and WD doesn't seem to have any hesitation about using new model numbers!
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Old 06-15-2012, 10:33 AM   #20
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Post links for from where you'd get them and we'll see if we can tell if they're AF or not.

I'm surprised anyone still has any 20EADSes for sale.
I just have a spare 20EAD as one of my spare drives in my storage...debating whether to put that one in or $99 ST2000DL003 from Amazon that will be arriving next week.
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Old 06-15-2012, 11:17 PM   #21
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There have been reported issues in these forums with Seagate drives. The general concensus is that the WD drives are the way to go, even at a higher cost.
I do not know what the past issues might have been, but I installed a Seagate 2TB drive in my Premiere and the Seagate HDD barely last two weeks. At first I was getting random reboots, then finally the TiVo would not boot at all, just stayed frozen on first startup screen and would not boot any further. Put the original TiVo drive back in and everything started working again.

Since, I have upgraded to WD 2TB green HDD, and have not had any problems.
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Old 06-15-2012, 11:30 PM   #22
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I do not know what the past issues might have been, but I installed a Seagate 2TB drive in my Premiere and the Seagate HDD barely last two weeks. At first I was getting random reboots, then finally the TiVo would not boot at all, just stayed frozen on first startup screen and would not boot any further. Put the original TiVo drive back in and everything started working again.

Since, I have upgraded to WD 2TB green HDD, and have not had any problems.
The good news is you should be able to slap that Seagate into a PC running Desktop or something from our open source brethren and offload non-copy protected shows, so it won't go to waste.

That's what I did when an ST2000DL03 gave my S3 HD a bad case of the random reboots and I dd'ed it over to a WD20EADS. TiVo and PC are both doing fine.
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Old 06-15-2012, 11:47 PM   #23
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The good news is you should be able to slap that Seagate into a PC running Desktop or something from our open source brethren and offload non-copy protected shows, so it won't go to waste.

That's what I did when an ST2000DL03 gave my S3 HD a bad case of the random reboots and I dd'ed it over to a WD20EADS. TiVo and PC are both doing fine.
Thanks, I shall try that. I do have linux box that I do that with.
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Old 06-16-2012, 12:01 AM   #24
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Thanks, I shall try that. I do have linux box that I do that with.
My bad, it was a 003, not 03

I put it in an XP box, but here's something I found in a customer review at NewEgg

"Unfortunately the replacement drives have the CC98 firmware on them while the orginal ones have CC32. CC32 reports the sector size as 512 logical/512 physical. CC98 reports 512 logical/4096 physical."

Mine's got the CC32 firmware.

What problems the later version might cause with which OS I can't say.

As I understand it, advanced format (4K sectors) is only necessary for drives over 2TB, so I don't understand why the industry needs to sow these landmines.
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Old 06-16-2012, 10:22 AM   #25
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A while ago the industry said they were moving their drives to AF.
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Old 06-16-2012, 11:08 AM   #26
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I've started an email case ticket with WD support asking if this is true [that some WD10EADS drives are Advanced Format]. I also asked whether, if it is true, you can tell which units have AF by the serial number.
.......
Haven't got a reply from WD but I now have verified the answer: Yes, some WD10EADS drives are Advanced Format. I got this by zooming in on a label on this drive displayed in an e-Bay seller's listing.

So if you're motivated to try to buy a WD##EADS drive to avoid AF, beware.
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Old 06-19-2012, 01:58 PM   #27
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Haven't got a reply from WD but I now have verified the answer: Yes, some WD10EADS drives are Advanced Format. I got this by zooming in on a label on this drive displayed in an e-Bay seller's listing.

So if you're motivated to try to buy a WD##EADS drive to avoid AF, beware.
I got a reply from WD and the situation is more complicated than I imagined:

WD says no ORIGINAL MANUFACTURE WD10EADS drives were AF but refurbished or re-manufactured versions could be AF. However, if a drive is AF it will say so on the label affixed to the drive case.

So I've been the victim of my own failure to read the small print on eBay. The drive that I purchased is categorized as "New - Other" by eBay (which is different from just "New"). Turns out the definition of "New - Other" essentially just means the drive looks new, which I think is very misleading. If you zoom in 400% on the photo of a "new" drive on eBay, the "Advanced Format" is not on the label. But the opposite is true for the drive I ordered.
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Old 06-19-2012, 02:43 PM   #28
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I just have a spare 20EAD as one of my spare drives in my storage...debating whether to put that one in or $99 ST2000DL003 from Amazon that will be arriving next week.
Why don't you try that Seagate, and see how it works, and share that knowledge with the rest of us?

If it doesn't work you can fall back on the WD.
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Old 06-19-2012, 08:30 PM   #29
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So am I missing something, why aren't you guys just getting the eurs drive instead of playing the ears AF lottery. The eurs is designed for AV recording?
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Old 06-19-2012, 09:04 PM   #30
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So am I missing something, why aren't you guys just getting the eurs drive instead of playing the ears AF lottery. The eurs is designed for AV recording?
AFAIK this about sums it up:

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........It's not yet known for certain what problems, if any, "advanced format" 4K sector drives cause for TiVos, and you can't count on getting good reliable info from drive makers as to which model implements it in what way if it has it.
.........
And the EURS are AF, I believe. I'd rather not take the chance.
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