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Old 07-17-2012, 02:40 PM   #1
NoVa
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Can I Put Premiere XL onto my Home Network?

I'm trying to wire my new house & wanted to have a general idea/game plan before speaking to the low voltage wiring contractor (Cat5e, Cat6, HDMI).

Goal is to watch TiVo recordings + live (if possible) from several different rooms.
And basically go with only 1 box accessible to any other rooms.
ie one TiVo box doing the serving for recorded content for any room in the house.

Did search on tc.com but wanted some clarification please for following:

1) TiVo PXL boxes cannot stream but can transfer recordings to another Tivo Box correct?

2) Any other way to stream or transfer TiVo recordings via some intermediary interface like a HTPC or home server or NAS?


Appreciate any direction on this.
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Old 07-17-2012, 03:24 PM   #2
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Tivo Premieres can absolutely stream between each other and if you can, yes run a CAT 5/6 to each!
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Old 07-17-2012, 03:25 PM   #3
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1) No. Tivo premiere boxes can absolutely stream and transfer (permissions vary) between units. Older boxes may be limited by permissions of the cableco for transfer, but cannot stream between units.

2) A streaming box is on the horizon, perhaps later this year. Searching the forums could help better understand its features, I believe initially it will only work with the XL4.

You can transfer from a WHS/PC/NAS provided you have the video formatting correct. I do this all the time using pyTiVo.

Tivo recommends hardwired connections, and I have found things just work out better that way when transferring video.
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Old 07-17-2012, 03:25 PM   #4
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As far as wiring, home-run a dual-RG6/dual-Cat5e bundle from your central location to the location of each possible TV location in the house. Your wiring contractor will be familiar with the cable, here's an exmaple: http://store.cablesplususa.com/6q5ecmr5x.html

That'll give you the flexibility to have every device on hard-wired Ethernet as well as two video sources (cable/antenna, sat/sat, etc.)

One TiVo Premiere Elite/XL4 with one of the upcoming TiVo IP boxes at each ancillary TV will then do the job.
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Old 07-17-2012, 03:35 PM   #5
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All the Series 4 DVR's Premiere, Premiere XL and Premiere XL4 can stream video to each other. Recommended using wired connection Cat5e or better.

Multi-Room Streaming
Quote:
Requirements:
  • Two or more Premiere boxes on the same TiVo account.
  • All Premieres must be running software 20.2 or later. You can check this in the System Information menus.
  • All boxes need to be connected to broadband Internet with a wired or MoCA connection.

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Old 07-17-2012, 05:20 PM   #6
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Use Gigabit switches (if you need them) with CAT 5e or CAT 6 wiring. The Premiere's don't have Gigabit ports, but the extra bandwidth on the LAN is useful. I have a central 24-port switch that feeds an 8-port switch in the AV cabinet connected to the XL4 and another 8-port switch in the den with the Premiere. No problems streaming so far.
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Old 07-17-2012, 07:48 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoVa View Post
I'm trying to wire my new house & wanted to have a general idea/game plan before speaking to the low voltage wiring contractor (Cat5e, Cat6, HDMI).

Goal is to watch TiVo recordings + live (if possible) from several different rooms.
And basically go with only 1 box accessible to any other rooms.
ie one TiVo box doing the serving for recorded content for any room in the house.

Did search on tc.com but wanted some clarification please for following:

1) TiVo PXL boxes cannot stream but can transfer recordings to another Tivo Box correct?

2) Any other way to stream or transfer TiVo recordings via some intermediary interface like a HTPC or home server or NAS?


Appreciate any direction on this.
If the sheetrock isn't up yet, install conduit, lots and lots of conduit, to future proof.

My parents' house, built in 1974, has 300 Ohm twinlead TV antenna cable running to several rooms.

If they'd put in conduit, it could have been easily replaced with coax.

Check with the local inspector, but you can probably use what's called ENT, also known as "smurf pipe" because of the blue color it's made in by Carlon, and it'll probably be cheaper and easier to install than the gray rigid Schedule 40 stuff.

Put in enough, in the right places, and in the future you can run whatever coax, ethernet cable, speaker wire, etc. you need.
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Old 07-18-2012, 11:25 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry in TN View Post
As far as wiring, home-run a dual-RG6/dual-Cat5e bundle from your central location to the location of each possible TV location in the house. Your wiring contractor will be familiar with the cable, here's an exmaple: http://store.cablesplususa.com/6q5ecmr5x.html

That'll give you the flexibility to have every device on hard-wired Ethernet as well as two video sources (cable/antenna, sat/sat, etc.)

One TiVo Premiere Elite/XL4 with one of the upcoming TiVo IP boxes at each ancillary TV will then do the job.

Thanks all for the feedback!

Per Larry's suggestions above - that was the plan to get good & many 'home-runs' (Still not sure why they call it like that??)

Some questions then:

1) If we won't want to use the IP boxes is the only way to get TiVo recording via a central home server is to re-encode them into the server & then serve it out as a non-TiVo file?

2) Do the future TiVo IP Boxes still need be hard connected from the wall & then to each secondary/thirdiary etc TV?
Thought they were essentially slingboxes so why ethernet them? Better signal transfer?

3) #2 brings up another issue - Can the TiVo XL be controlled in another room? ie can I scroll through the play list from another room while some1 watches a recorded show in the living room?
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Old 07-18-2012, 11:52 AM   #9
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1) Research pytivo- to me its the best way to transfer to a central server, but there are other free tools out there that are also excellent. Some use a central tivo and connect it to multiple TVs (seems painful to me, but to each their own).
2) Wireless has inherent interference issues that TiVo prefers to avoid. The boxes are rumored to use MOCA, so an ethernet run may not be necessary (though if new, I would do it anyway).
3) Premiers can be controlled through iOS and Android apps independently of the activity of the tivo itself.
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Old 07-18-2012, 11:56 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrtroo View Post
1) No. Tivo premiere boxes can absolutely stream and transfer (permissions vary) between units. Older boxes may be limited by permissions of the cableco for transfer, but cannot stream between units.

2) A streaming box is on the horizon, perhaps later this year. Searching the forums could help better understand its features, I believe initially it will only work with the XL4.

You can transfer from a WHS/PC/NAS provided you have the video formatting correct. I do this all the time using pyTiVo.

Tivo recommends hardwired connections, and I have found things just work out better that way when transferring video.


jrtroo: Thanks for the comments.
Question: When you say the bold above statement, are you essentially re-encoding?

If so - are you doing it on a server/NAS?

or - are you doing it on a PC & then transferring to via said PC?

or what else?
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Old 07-18-2012, 12:46 PM   #11
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It depends. I know how to do it, but may call things by a technically incorrect name.

If you are archiving data from the tivo, pytivo can remove the .tivo wrapper on the file so that other devices can use the file. I don't think this is really re-encoding.

Above, I was really talking about taking DVDs and making the content available to the TiVo. I rip a file, re-encode with handbrake (i use settings that let me use the file with a tivo and my xoom), put the file on my WHS (if I am going to delete it right away I'll leave on my PC), and then push or pull the content to the tivo.
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Old 07-18-2012, 12:59 PM   #12
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NoVa,
What provider are you planning to use?
Transfers (to TiVo Desktop/computers) can be heavily limited by copy restrictions that your provider may implement.
I just wanted to re-emphasize that as part of your considerations.

I'd suggest looking up aaronwt on these forums. He's got the mother of all WHS setups that archive/serve TiVo recordings.
He usually seems helpful and willing to talk specifics about his setup.
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Old 07-18-2012, 02:43 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrtroo View Post
If you are archiving data from the tivo, pytivo can remove the .tivo wrapper on the file so that other devices can use the file. I don't think this is really re-encoding.
Noted!


Quote:
Originally Posted by jrtroo View Post
Above, I was really talking about taking DVDs and making the content available to the TiVo. I rip a file, re-encode with handbrake (i use settings that let me use the file with a tivo and my xoom), put the file on my WHS (if I am going to delete it right away I'll leave on my PC), and then push or pull the content to the tivo.
Wow - didn't know you could move stuff to your TiVo?!
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Old 07-18-2012, 03:02 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbobozz View Post
NoVa,
What provider are you planning to use?
Right now - it's Commiecast but we also have option of Verizon.
Lesser of 2 evils marginally.


Quote:
Originally Posted by turbobozz View Post
Transfers (to TiVo Desktop/computers) can be heavily limited by copy restrictions that your provider may implement.
I just wanted to re-emphasize that as part of your considerations.

I'd suggest looking up aaronwt on these forums. He's got the mother of all WHS setups that archive/serve TiVo recordings.
He usually seems helpful and willing to talk specifics about his setup.
Thanks. I recalled seeing him on AVS.com also & he's a fellow Virginian I believe. Thanks.
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Old 07-18-2012, 06:04 PM   #15
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Quote:
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Right now - it's Commiecast but we also have option of Verizon.
Lesser of 2 evils marginally.
In the realm of TV/internet service... Comcast is tremendously worse in my experience... especially when dealing with cable cards.
I've dealt with Comcast on cablecards since the original S3 was released. Switched to Fios when I could, but then I moved and had to go back to Comcast... but my parents still use FiOS.


Comcast has not once installed or fixed a cable card problem right the first time for me. Ever. I don't think they've ever fixed it on the second time either.

Fios internet blows away Comcast anytime you have to transfer decently large files.

Comcast typically restricts the copy (preventing transfers) on many/most channels... Fios has reportedly only now started restricting copy and only on some premium channels like HBO.


Long story short... Fios is finally being laid down in my current neighborhood... I will be jumping back to Fios as soon as I can.
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Old 07-18-2012, 06:34 PM   #16
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In electrical wiring, a "home run" is a cable (one or more hots, white wire, green or bare wire) that runs all the way back "home" to the distribution point (circuit breaker box, etc.), without interruption.

Usually a wall socket has a cable that runs to it, and then another that runs to the next outlet box, and from there it daisy chains to the next next outlet box, and so on.

A home run goes from the outlet box directly back to the breaker.

If other trades use the terminology, it's probably a similar situation. For instance a TV coax home run would go all the way back to the grounding block at the demarcation point where the wire the cable company owns joins the wire the homeowner owns, without any splitters in the path, although there could be a multi-tap splitter at the grounding block to accomodate several home runs without doing any real violence to the understood meaning.
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Old 07-18-2012, 06:46 PM   #17
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Comcast typically restricts the copy (preventing transfers) on many/most channels... Fios has reportedly only now started restricting copy and only on some premium channels like HBO.
Flat out not true. Comcast, whatever their other faults, only protects premium channels. I have Comcast and no premium channels and I've never had anything copy protected TWC and Cox on the other hand...
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Old 07-18-2012, 06:52 PM   #18
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Flat out not true. Comcast, whatever their other faults, only protects premium channels. I have Comcast and no premium channels and I've never had anything copy protected TWC and Cox on the other hand...
Don't generalize about Cox either. In my market same thing: only premiums copy protected and everything else clear. TWC I believe is the worse offender.
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Old 07-18-2012, 07:28 PM   #19
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Flat out not true. Comcast, whatever their other faults, only protects premium channels. I have Comcast and no premium channels and I've never had anything copy protected TWC and Cox on the other hand...
You are obviously on a different franchise than I am.
Comcast locks down everything except the ones they aren't allowed to(OTA rebroadcast) where I am.
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Old 07-18-2012, 09:00 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
In electrical wiring, a "home run" is a cable (one or more hots, white wire, green or bare wire) that runs all the way back "home" to the distribution point (circuit breaker box, etc.), without interruption.

Usually a wall socket has a cable that runs to it, and then another that runs to the next outlet box, and from there it daisy chains to the next next outlet box, and so on.

A home run goes from the outlet box directly back to the breaker.

If other trades use the terminology, it's probably a similar situation. For instance a TV coax home run would go all the way back to the grounding block at the demarcation point where the wire the cable company owns joins the wire the homeowner owns, without any splitters in the path, although there could be a multi-tap splitter at the grounding block to accomodate several home runs without doing any real violence to the understood meaning.

Thanks unitron for the education.

Another thing that has me befuddled: the smurf tube or conduit for these home runs? How do they facilitate future cable expansions? I envision that you still have to drop new cables through it & fish them through to each wall outlet one by one

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Old 07-18-2012, 09:03 PM   #21
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You are obviously on a different franchise than I am.
Comcast locks down everything except the ones they aren't allowed to(OTA rebroadcast) where I am.
Exactly, that's why we all shouldn't generalize - me included.
Apparently, they all have faults.

I've heard FIOS has warts too.
In my area, Comcast allows me to do what I need to do & has pretty good customer response. Eeek!
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Old 07-18-2012, 09:21 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by NoVa View Post
Thanks unitron for the education.

Another thing that has me befuddled: the smurf tube or conduit for these home runs? How do they facilitate future cable expansions? I envision that you still have to drop new cables through it & fish them through to each wall outlet one by one
You can drill a hole through a small rubber ball, run string or light cord through the hole and tie it off, stick it in one end of the conduit and use a vacuum cleaner on the other end of the conduit to pull the ball, then attach the other end of the string or cord to the actual cable and pull it through.

Or you can use a sufficiently long enough length of 14 gauge copper wire with one end bent over to "round" it so it won't snag, and use it.

Or you can use a fish tape of the kind used by electricians and plumbers.

Or you can put lengths of cord in to begin with so as to have something to pull with later.

But in all of those cases you have the conduit secured at both ends to a box, so you don't have to blindly push a fish tape through a wall and hope to get it to go into a small opening in the top or bottom of a box.

And conduit facilitates having a "wiring closet" where everything orginates or returns.
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Old 07-18-2012, 10:53 PM   #23
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Exactly, that's why we all shouldn't generalize - me included.
Apparently, they all have faults.

I've heard FIOS has warts too.
In my area, Comcast allows me to do what I need to do & has pretty good customer response. Eeek!
Yeah, sorry for my comcasstic reaction.
My Comcast franchise is reliably frustrating to work with... easy to get worked up thinking about them.
Last time I checked they were still locking down all but OTA rebroadcasts... but then I got to wondering when the last time I actually checked (I don't have a need to use transfers/copies right now).
I think it's probably been a year and a half since I even checked... I'll have to check when I'm back home this weekend.
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Old 07-19-2012, 08:09 AM   #24
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Yeah, sorry for my comcasstic reaction.
My Comcast franchise is reliably frustrating to work with... easy to get worked up thinking about them.
Last time I checked they were still locking down all but OTA rebroadcasts... but then I got to wondering when the last time I actually checked (I don't have a need to use transfers/copies right now).
I think it's probably been a year and a half since I even checked... I'll have to check when I'm back home this weekend.
Even though they provide solid service for me (limited basic with expanded basic channels lineup - though not all in HD) I still curse their name.

The next presidential candidate that makes these guys become a utility gets my vote!
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Old 07-19-2012, 09:36 PM   #25
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If you are archiving data from the tivo, pytivo can remove the .tivo wrapper on the file so that other devices can use the file. I don't think this is really re-encoding.
That is NOT AT ALL re-encoding. It is simply "unlocking" the file to turn it into a regular MPEG file. It's very fast. There is no video/audio conversion done.
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