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Old 05-17-2012, 11:24 PM   #1
john4200
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The Mentalist "The Crimson Hat" 2012-May-17

R.I.P. Wainwright...it seems that none of Lisbon's bosses can last more than a season. At least Minelli, Hightower, and LaRoche are still alive. I'm not sure whether to feel sorry for Wainwright or not. Was he already dead before agent Darcy shot him? He was awfully still while Jane was talking to the phone on Wainwright's chest. Wainwright had tape over his mouth and was tied up, but he might have wiggled around for Jane to see if he were alive and conscious. Too bad Jane didn't turn around for a good look instead of using the mirror. That was rather weak of the show -- I think Jane would have tried for a good, direct look. The big guy was outside, so Jane would have been able to turn around before he could have been physically restrained.

Agent Darcy is looking like a prime candidate for a Red John associate. She was so concerned about finding out whether the body was Rigsby, and then she was awfully quick to sick the FBI on Lisbon's entire team. I would have expected her to be searching for Jane if she were not a dirty FBI agent. And RJ said he has a friend in the FBI. But the most damning evidence, I think, is that she is the last person that we know of to see Wainwright alive (I mean, before his kidnapping, or whatever that was).

I replayed the last episode of the 2nd season (Red Sky in the Morning) and I am pretty sure that RJ's voice is the same in that episode as in this one. It is a rather high-pitched male voice, although I suppose it could be a female trying to sound like a male. Not that I think RJ is female, I'm just saying that I don't think the voice completely rules it out.

I thought the scene in Lisbon's office was weak. Since Jane and Lisbon both knew he wasn't going to shoot her, why did Jane hug her and tell her he loved her? It seemed like the only reason was to try to fool the viewer into thinking Jane really killed her. Although it did create the opportunity for Lisbon to ask Jane about it later. The only reason I can think of for Jane doing that is if he thought Lisbon's office might be under surveillance. But if they were really worried about surveillance, then did Jane really pretend to shoot her and then fireman carry her out of the building? How did they get the faceless body out into the hall without surveillance catching it? That entire sequence had too many inconsistencies.

Chriqui has some good scenes with some skimpy outfits. I wonder how Jane plans to get Lorelei to talk.

I am growing increasingly convinced that the only way the whole RJ situation can be satisfactorily resolved is if someone high up in Visualize is RJ. Maybe there is someone in the shadows, in charge of Visualize, that nobody knows is in charge (maybe Stiles knows). I don't think Stiles himself is RJ, that would be too obvious, and the voice is too different. But RJ has such far-reaching connections and so many devoted followers (REALLY devoted) that I think Visualize is the only feasible explanation. Of course, the writers could pull something out of thin air, but that would not be a satisfying conclusion to the RJ mystery.
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Old 05-18-2012, 12:28 AM   #2
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I would agree that FBI agent Darcy looks like she is the leak that told Red John that the CBI team was after him.

But if she was working with Red John, it seems like she would have stalled in going after Patrick and Red John when she had the team in handcuffs and sitting on the sidewalk.

So I am not completely convinced yet that Darcy is the FBI mole for Red John.
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Old 05-18-2012, 01:13 AM   #3
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But if she was working with Red John, it seems like she would have stalled in going after Patrick and Red John when she had the team in handcuffs and sitting on the sidewalk.
She couldn't have stalled much without giving herself away. She was told that RJ was right over there and Jane was with him and his life was in danger. If she didn't at least send her people over to check it out, she would be revealed to be either grossly negligent or extremely suspicious, especially after Jane revealed that RJ told him he found out about it from his friend in the FBI.

Besides, she could have had instructions to kill the people in the car. Maybe she will be in trouble with RJ for letting Lorelei live.
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Old 05-18-2012, 06:09 AM   #4
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I don't see how it could be Darcy. When would she have gotten the alone time to make the call (pretending to be from the back seat)?

Though what I can't understand is why she was so keen to arrest Lisbon and associates once she realized that the dead body was too short. OK, so they faked the killing and kidnapping. She must have realized that they could have been doing it to run a (legit) operation...

But she had at least a half-dozen FBI agents come up and drawn down on them. For what?
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Old 05-18-2012, 06:19 AM   #5
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I don't see how it could be Darcy. When would she have gotten the alone time to make the call (pretending to be from the back seat)?
I don't think anybody's saying Darcy is RJ, just that she's working for him.

Which I think we're obviously supposed to believe...so obviously, it can't be true.

I am, however, getting a little annoyed with the writers' belief that RJ could single-handedly solve the unemployment problem in the US. Because apparently EVERYBODY works for RJ. Maybe Mitt and Barack should get some tips from RJ...unless they already work for him.
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Old 05-18-2012, 07:14 AM   #6
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I watched this backwards. The last half on the tv in the living room in real time and then the first half in the kitchen this morning on my other TiVo.

My first thought when Lorelei came to visit Patrick at his motel room was how much she sounded like Lisbon and even in some way looked like her - dark hair, etc. Just fleetingly, for a moment, but enough to make me wonder if it was a RJ trick.
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Old 05-18-2012, 07:45 AM   #7
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Wouldn't the fact that you first watched the half of the show where she is manifestly working for RJ have been a bigger clue?
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Old 05-18-2012, 08:32 AM   #8
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Wouldn't the fact that you first watched the half of the show where she is manifestly working for RJ have been a bigger clue?
That he picked her because of her looks/voice similar to Lisbon? I guess.

I didn't notice it in the last half, I guess I was caught up in what was happening, but when watching the first half it was when she was cooking him breakfast in the motel room. You see her from behind with the dark hair and speaking in that sort of smokey voice.
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Old 05-18-2012, 08:47 AM   #9
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The way you worded it made it seem as if the fact that she looked and sounded like Lisbon made you think her coming to the hotel to seduce Patrick might be a RJ trick. Which, having seen the second half, wouldn't have been a very great leap...
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Old 05-18-2012, 10:41 AM   #10
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I don't think anybody's saying Darcy is RJ, just that she's working for him.
Yup, that is what I meant by "Red John associate". There are so many of them, maybe I should abbreviate it RJA.
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Old 05-18-2012, 10:51 AM   #11
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Should've killed off Red John when they pretended to at the end of last season.

As a police agency, CBI is pretty worthless, apparently. At least without Super Jane.
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Old 05-18-2012, 11:04 AM   #12
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When they introduced Wainwright to the show I hoped he would be a highly intelligent foil for Jane. Certainly not smarter than Jane (because who is besides Red John?), but smart enough and capable enough to manage him--maybe even to put him in his place from time to time. But, he was just a season long redshirt, and he never even displayed any qualities or skills that would convince us that he deserved to hold such a prestigious position.

In fact, looking around at all the other characters on the show, I don't think the writers have any skill at developing characters. Simon Baker is carrying the show. I guess I should list Baker in the thread about actors who you would watch in any show.
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Old 05-18-2012, 11:29 AM   #13
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Simon Baker is carrying the show. I guess I should list Baker in the thread about actors who you would watch in any show.
My wife and I just started watching The Guardian (early 2000 tv show) on Netflix specifically because Simon Baker was in it. Now we are really into that show and get our "Patrick Jane" fix by watching it. It's funny that we never even remember this show being on back then. It's really interesting seeing Simon Baker so young and in a different character than Patrick Jane. The Mentalist is the first time we had ever seen him, so for us, he IS Patrick Jane. Many times we will joke about the similarities or differences in his characters between the shows.

But yeah, the RJ story line is getting a little old. It would have been nice if it was really RJ that he killed last season and then they spent this season unpacking RJ's world and how he did what he did. They could even have a few mysteries that need to be solved to get the last few RJ apprentices.
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Old 06-18-2012, 08:28 PM   #14
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I am, however, getting a little annoyed with the writers' belief that RJ could single-handedly solve the unemployment problem in the US. Because apparently EVERYBODY works for RJ. Maybe Mitt and Barack should get some tips from RJ...unless they already work for him.
*bump*

I just got caught up on the season and watched this episode.

Your comment is the one I make almost every time RJ episodes come up. On the one hand, they are among the show's better work, because they do manage to generate real suspense (this generally is not an especially suspenseful show). On the other, the the longer the RJ storyline presses on the more ridiculous it gets. As you (and I, and many others I am sure) have pointed out, the guy has more people working for him than work in law enforcement itself. (And it seems that more than a few of them are working for both!) And the other problem with that is the show has never explained why they do. He's a serial killer, and (other than Jane's family) not even all that selective a one. What "way of life", philosophy, ideology, or whatever is he offering to get so many people not only helping him, but covering for him and willing to take the fall for him at great cost to themselves?

As I mentioned, this was a pretty good episode, those considerations (and various narrative tricks as pointed out by the OP) aside. It's just hard to see ho the RJ conclusion, if we ever get it, won't be laughable at this point. I wish the show would just wrap it up.
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Old 06-18-2012, 08:50 PM   #15
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As I posted before, the only good way I can think of that the writers will be able to explain Red John is if he is somehow in control of Visualize, but also in the shadows so that no one (except possibly Stiles) knows that RJ is in control. Since Visualize has such a large, diverse, and fanatical membership, that could explain how RJ is able to get so many devoted followers.
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Old 06-18-2012, 09:21 PM   #16
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As I posted before, the only good way I can think of that the writers will be able to explain Red John is if he is somehow in control of Visualize, but also in the shadows so that no one (except possibly Stiles) knows that RJ is in control. Since Visualize has such a large, diverse, and fanatical membership, that could explain how RJ is able to get so many devoted followers.
I had to think for a minute about what Visualize is -- that's the church/cult/movement/whatever fronted by Roddy McDowell, right?
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Old 06-18-2012, 09:49 PM   #17
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I had to think for a minute about what Visualize is -- that's the church/cult/movement/whatever fronted by Roddy McDowell, right?
Malcolm McDowell.
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Old 06-18-2012, 09:58 PM   #18
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Malcolm McDowell.
Heh. No idea why I conjured Roddy there. He's dead!
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Old 06-18-2012, 10:12 PM   #19
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I can see it now ... Stiles' long lost brother splits off from the family to start a rival Visualize-type group. Ugh ...

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As I posted before, the only good way I can think of that the writers will be able to explain Red John is if he is somehow in control of Visualize, but also in the shadows so that no one (except possibly Stiles) knows that RJ is in control. Since Visualize has such a large, diverse, and fanatical membership, that could explain how RJ is able to get so many devoted followers.

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Old 06-19-2012, 12:17 PM   #20
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As I posted before, the only good way I can think of that the writers will be able to explain Red John is if he is somehow in control of Visualize, but also in the shadows so that no one (except possibly Stiles) knows that RJ is in control. Since Visualize has such a large, diverse, and fanatical membership, that could explain how RJ is able to get so many devoted followers.
In the last Visulaize epsiode, they mentioned that Stiles didn't start Visualize. The orignal founder was "mysteriously" killed in a car crash. I am now thinking that the original founder of Visualize is Red John.

Quite probably wrong.
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Old 06-19-2012, 12:27 PM   #21
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I'm not sure I can ever forgive them for the season ender with Bradley Whitford not being the end of RJ.
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Old 06-19-2012, 12:51 PM   #22
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I really don't care who Red John is. I have to suspend believe to watch the show even without the RJ stuff so I'm okay with whoever it is ..... as long as it's not Patrick. I will lose my sh*t if they end up going that way after all the ways we've been shown it couldn't possibly be him.
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Old 06-19-2012, 03:17 PM   #23
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I really don't care who Red John is. I have to suspend believe to watch the show even without the RJ stuff so I'm okay with whoever it is ..... as long as it's not Patrick. I will lose my sh*t if they end up going that way after all the ways we've been shown it couldn't possibly be him.
Well, I can't argue with that at all! If they write it so that he somehow has a split personality and is also Red John, I will be exceedingly unhappy.
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Old 06-19-2012, 03:49 PM   #24
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I really don't care who Red John is. I have to suspend believe to watch the show even without the RJ stuff so I'm okay with whoever it is ..... as long as it's not Patrick. I will lose my sh*t if they end up going that way after all the ways we've been shown it couldn't possibly be him.
Please do not lose your sh*t.
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Old 06-19-2012, 03:51 PM   #25
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Old 06-25-2012, 10:33 AM   #26
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I really don't care who Red John is. I have to suspend believe to watch the show even without the RJ stuff so I'm okay with whoever it is ..... as long as it's not Patrick. I will lose my sh*t if they end up going that way after all the ways we've been shown it couldn't possibly be him.
Even in this year's season finale, it could not be Patrick since he was in the front seat of the limo when RJ was talking on the phone and the girl came to him saying RJ sent her.

Yeah...way too many times there have been instances to prove Patrick could not be RJ. They could say that he hypnotized people to make them think he was places he was not, etc, but that would be lame. If they go with that, I would not be too happy either!

Finally got caught up last night and watched the last couple of episodes of the season....I thought maybe the girl from Entourage was actually RJ...would definitely be difficult for Patrick to deal with the fact that he was sleeping with the killer of his wife and daughter..but then I realized that she was in the limo as well when RJ was talking on the phone. Too bad she will probably die on the series premiere. As Patrick said, anyone who knows RJ will die.

I have watched since the series premiere and have always enjoyed the show, but it is getting a bit tiresome...dead body, multiple suspects, CBI investigating, Patrick asking outrageous questions, pulling crazy stunts, getting suspects upset at him, finally figuring out who the killer is. The RJ storyline has broken this up a bit and kept me interested, but even that is getting old....No one can taunt the police for all these years, have so many people that are devoted to him and would die for him, and not get caught. I am thinking that it will be series finale where they reveal who RJ is and kill him.
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Old 06-25-2012, 12:10 PM   #27
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Finally got caught up last night and watched the last couple of episodes of the season....I thought maybe the girl from Entourage was actually RJ...would definitely be difficult for Patrick to deal with the fact that he was sleeping with the killer of his wife and daughter..but then I realized that she was in the limo as well when RJ was talking on the phone. Too bad she will probably die on the series premiere. As Patrick said, anyone who knows RJ will die.
It really has to be someone that Patrick knows on a personal level. I'm not buying this killer just got angry that he was talking smack about him on national TV so he killed his family and has now taunted him for years. I mean, let's face it, where RJ is concerned, it's all about Patrick.
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Old 06-25-2012, 12:53 PM   #28
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Old 06-25-2012, 02:25 PM   #29
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It's Cho! I know it's Cho!
Awww don't say that, I love Cho!
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Old 06-25-2012, 04:25 PM   #30
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If it's Cho, I'll be very unhappy. If it's any of the "team" I'll be unhappy. My money is still on Stiles, or someone else form Visualize.

In the Hitchcockina sense, Red John is almost a McGuffin. He's merely the motivation for Patrick to continue crime fighting with the CBI.
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