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Old 06-14-2012, 08:51 AM   #91
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Great article/blog. After reading that I did an image google for him and see lots of shots of him in a beard. Also a few from way back when....I hadn't connected that Pete was Angel's son. I mean, now that I see it, I see that same kind of smirky sneer they both had.

Anyway, in the image search I found this shot - not related to Mad Men in anyway, but thought he looked cute.


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Old 06-14-2012, 08:54 AM   #92
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Wow that doesn't even look like Vince!
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Old 06-14-2012, 09:04 AM   #93
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Wow! Totally didn't make the Angel connection.

That picture is creepy...it looks like a top and bottom half photoshopped together. The top looks like Pete (with hair awry) the bottom looks like some other dude.
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Old 06-14-2012, 09:10 AM   #94
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Wow! Totally didn't make the Angel connection.

That picture is creepy...it looks like a top and bottom half photoshopped together. The top looks like Pete (with hair awry) the bottom looks like some other dude.
I thought the eyes still look "Pete-creepy" but the new beard style was something from "Life on Mars" or some 70's show.

It is fun seeing actors looking different then you are used to in their roles. I love Jon Hamm, but never googled image searched him.

Found this one from a few years back. I started drooling.



Okay, yes. I have a thing for men with beards.
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Old 06-14-2012, 09:11 AM   #95
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Okay, yes. I have a thing for men with beards.
Clearly!
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Old 06-14-2012, 01:00 PM   #96
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I hope that Don doesn't spend the whole next season "off his game". I thought that having both him and Peggy doing substandard work was a bit much, especially when combined with the INCREDIBLY annoying whiz-kid Ginsberg.
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Old 06-14-2012, 01:12 PM   #97
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I hadn't connected that Pete was Angel's son. I mean, now that I see it, I see that same kind of smirky sneer they both had.
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Wow! Totally didn't make the Angel connection.
Really? The moment I first saw Pete Campbell on screen I was like "OMG - that's Connor! And he's just as unlikeable here!"

Kartheiser has a real knack for playing obnoxious characters.
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Old 06-14-2012, 02:06 PM   #98
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I say Don doesn't stray.
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Old 06-14-2012, 02:33 PM   #99
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I say Don doesn't stray.
I'd like to share your faith in Don's rebirth and hope that you're correct, but logically it doesn't work.

Matthew Weiner ended this season with a bit of a cliffhanger. I hope the intention is to answer that question sometime in the next season, preferably in the season premiere. Usually there is a span of several months to a year or more between seasons.

So S6 could pick up right were S5 ended, but that would be atypical. The more likely scenario is that S6 will pick up several months later, toward the end of 1967 or perhaps even the beginning of 1968. If that happens, the only way to resolve the cliffhanger with Don having not strayed is to have some clunky bit of dialogue with Don referencing that night, or for he and Megan to have some discussion/fight where he says that he's always been faithful to her. That doesn't seem like the Mad Men way.

Instead, I think it's more likely that when S6 begins, we'll see that Don is back to his old ways of sleeping around, and we'll be left to simply infer that he ceased being faithful on that night at the end of S5. To me, that seems much more like the way Matthew Weiner would do things.
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Old 06-14-2012, 02:56 PM   #100
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I If that happens, the only way to resolve the cliffhanger with Don having not strayed is to have some clunky bit of dialogue with Don referencing that night, or for he and Megan to have some discussion/fight where he says that he's always been faithful to her.
Not at all. In pure Mad Men style we will spend the next episode (or several) looking for clues to whether he is cheating or isn't cheating. They're not going to necessarily spell out anything, we're going to have to watch and see.

We've experienced some significant Don growth over the last several seasons, from his pit of despair apartment after he and Betty split up to seemingly happy and faithful Don with Megan. He's figuring himself out and he's not the man he was 5 years ago. We even saw that watershed moment when he thinks he cheated due to his fever dream and is willing to kill to hide the fact. I think he's committed to not being that man again, and honestly I'd see it as a little bit of a insult to just have him be 'Old Don' again. He's changed too much.

So I'm not saying that he's going to stay with Megan, I think there are some serious indications that he's thinking they shouldn't be together, but if that happens I think he'll leave her I don't think he'll do what he did with Betty and pretend with Megan and have stuff on the side.
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Old 06-14-2012, 02:58 PM   #101
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Not at all. In pure Mad Men style we will spend the next episode (or several) looking for clues to whether he is cheating or isn't cheating. They're not going to necessarily spell out anything, we're going to have to watch and see.

We've experienced some significant Don growth over the last several seasons, from his pit of despair apartment after he and Betty split up to seemingly happy and faithful Don with Megan. He's figuring himself out and he's not the man he was 5 years ago. We even saw that watershed moment when he thinks he cheated due to his fever dream and is willing to kill to hide the fact. I think he's committed to not being that man again, and honestly I'd see it as a little bit of a insult to just have him be 'Old Don' again. He's changed too much.

So I'm not saying that he's going to stay with Megan, I think there are some serious indications that he's thinking they shouldn't be together, but if that happens I think he'll leave her I don't think he'll do what he did with Betty and pretend with Megan and have stuff on the side.
I agree and hope they keep Don growing and not settling back into old ways. I would even like to see he and Megan grow as a couple and compromise on things a bit.
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Old 06-14-2012, 03:17 PM   #102
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Not at all. In pure Mad Men style we will spend the next episode (or several) looking for clues to whether he is cheating or isn't cheating. They're not going to necessarily spell out anything, we're going to have to watch and see.

We've experienced some significant Don growth over the last several seasons, from his pit of despair apartment after he and Betty split up to seemingly happy and faithful Don with Megan. He's figuring himself out and he's not the man he was 5 years ago. We even saw that watershed moment when he thinks he cheated due to his fever dream and is willing to kill to hide the fact. I think he's committed to not being that man again, and honestly I'd see it as a little bit of a insult to just have him be 'Old Don' again. He's changed too much.

So I'm not saying that he's going to stay with Megan, I think there are some serious indications that he's thinking they shouldn't be together, but if that happens I think he'll leave her I don't think he'll do what he did with Betty and pretend with Megan and have stuff on the side.
I'm not sure Don's grown so much as he's been in the honeymoon phase of his new marriage. Now that honeymoon phase is clearly over, and he's becoming disillusioned with the relationship. I don't recall us seeing anything that would indicate he's grown on his own independent of that relationship, and I don't think it would be a stretch at all for him to revert to his old behavior once he no longer has that relationship to believe in.

And like I said, unless they open the next season shortly after that scene in the bar, then it will be difficult for them to indicate that Don's been faithful without some clunky dialogue. It will be much easier (and much more in character for Don and for the show) for us to simply see him whoring around when S6 opens and then we'll know that the end of S5 was the turning point.
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Old 06-14-2012, 03:24 PM   #103
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I
And like I said, unless they open the next season shortly after that scene in the bar, then it will be difficult for them to indicate that Don's been faithful without some clunky dialogue.
I think this might be because you're not a writer. Mad Men story lines are filled with assumptions the audience has to make. That's one of the greatest things about the show, it doesn't treat the audience like idiots, it gives you a slice of life from these people and leaves it to us to fill in the blanks that we've missed.

All we will need to see is a Don that's continuing to be faithful to Megan, whether happily or struggling, and we will know what he did that night in the bar.

No "clunky dialogue" needed, only subtle story telling, of which Weiner is a master.
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Old 06-14-2012, 03:32 PM   #104
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I think this might be because you're not a writer. Mad Men story lines are filled with assumptions the audience has to make. That's one of the greatest things about the show, it doesn't treat the audience like idiots, it gives you a slice of life from these people and leaves it to us to fill in the blanks that we've missed.

All we will need to see is a Don that's continuing to be faithful to Megan, whether happily or struggling, and we will know what he did that night in the bar.

No "clunky dialogue" needed, only subtle story telling, of which Weiner is a master.
I agree with you about the quality of the writing, and if that's how they choose to portray it, I would agree with your inference as to its meaning.

However, I think the cliffhanger question at the end of this episode was specific enough that many fans will not be satisfied without a specific answer. So if we simply see Don being faithful 6-12 months later, plenty of people will complain that this doesn't mean Don was faithful that particular night.
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Old 06-14-2012, 03:48 PM   #105
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I agree with you about the quality of the writing, and if that's how they choose to portray it, I would agree with your inference as to its meaning.

However, I think the cliffhanger question at the end of this episode was specific enough that many fans will not be satisfied without a specific answer. So if we simply see Don being faithful 6-12 months later, plenty of people will complain that this doesn't mean Don was faithful that particular night.
But I just don't think Mad Men caters to those kinds of people. It's smarter than that.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:32 PM   #106
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After reading that article it lead me to a couple others there about Mad Men. One - and I didn't save the link - mentioned something interesting.

Megan blindsided her friend to get the audition. Her friend asked her to ask Don, but instead she asked him. Not the nice Megan we all have come to know.
Which is actually part of why I (apparently) misidentified the woman in the bar at the end as Megan's friend.

I thought she found out was was pissed enough to try to screw up Megan's marrage. But instead it seems I just can't tell actresses apart (which honestly I already knew)
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Old 06-14-2012, 06:11 PM   #107
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We've experienced some significant Don growth over the last several seasons, from his pit of despair apartment after he and Betty split up to seemingly happy and faithful Don with Megan.
I don't think Don's changed at all. His relationship with Megan began while he was seeing another woman. He engaged to Megan, then had to call his girlfriend to break up with her! During season 5 he might not have cheated on Megan, but instead he did things like abandon her at Hojo's and chase her around the apartment like a lunatic when she had the nerve to go home. He was only happy when Megan was in the very tiny box he wanted her in, either working at his side and under his control or home being the barefoot housewife. Don wanted to change because the thinks this is his chance at his perfect life, his fairytale. Instead, he gave Megan her fairytale, she is beauty and he returns to being the beast.
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Old 06-14-2012, 06:52 PM   #108
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I don't think Don's changed at all. His relationship with Megan began while he was seeing another woman. He engaged to Megan, then had to call his girlfriend to break up with her! During season 5 he might not have cheated on Megan, but instead he did things like abandon her at Hojo's and chase her around the apartment like a lunatic when she had the nerve to go home. He was only happy when Megan was in the very tiny box he wanted her in, either working at his side and under his control or home being the barefoot housewife. Don wanted to change because the thinks this is his chance at his perfect life, his fairytale. Instead, he gave Megan her fairytale, she is beauty and he returns to being the beast.
So you don't think Megan is teaching Don how to deal with conflict and disappointment in a more mature manner. When she is unhappy with something, she tells him right away and he shortly thereafter has respected her for it. Yes you listed some bad stuff but what was his approach after the fallout from that bad stuff. I say he is getting better each day at dealing with stuff. He is not Mr. perfect yet but he has improved a lot.

Betty is the one that has changed little and is still trying to game play.
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Old 06-14-2012, 07:20 PM   #109
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I think Don's gotten better about manipulating Megan and turning her attention away from her anger at him and making her sympathetic to him. We got two stark examples of that in the last few episodes. One was when Megan was angry about being left alone with Sally. Megan started to lay into him and Don said "I had to fire Lane" and Megan immediately switched into good little housewife mode - to the point of pulling him along by the hand to go have family dinner. The anger Megan has never again gets addressed.

She is put in a very childlike position in their relationship - she pouted, threw a fit and so he gave in and gave her what she wanted (the commercial). They are far from equals, just a different type of relationship than the one with Betty. It might be more open but it's not more mature.
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Old 06-14-2012, 07:46 PM   #110
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So you don't think Megan is teaching Don how to deal with conflict and disappointment in a more mature manner. When she is unhappy with something, she tells him right away and he shortly thereafter has respected her for it. Yes you listed some bad stuff but what was his approach after the fallout from that bad stuff. I say he is getting better each day at dealing with stuff. He is not Mr. perfect yet but he has improved a lot.

Betty is the one that has changed little and is still trying to game play.
Megan threw a plate of spaghetti against the wall. Is that an example of how she's teaching Don the proper way to deal with conflict?

BTW, I like Megan and I liked Don a lot more this year when he appeared to be in a happy relationship. I'd love it if their relationship continued and Don remained faithful. However, I'm skeptical that it will happen.
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Old 06-14-2012, 07:47 PM   #111
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Don is SO incredibly different with Megan than with Betty. They talk about issues (even if it's screaming) and come to resolutions. With Betty it was Don's way, period.

I'm not sure how you can watch the show from the start and not say Don hasn't grown.
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Old 06-14-2012, 07:59 PM   #112
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I agree that Don has acted different this year. I just don't see it as growth, more of an offshoot. He and Megan are behaving and interacting differently than he and Betty did, but the result is by and large the same. Don gets his way. The end, to me, signaled that when Don didn't get his way (Megan doing the commercial) he went right back to old Don - drinking in a bar alone and picking up women.

He tried hard this year to grow. I don't think he was successful. The ending at the bar was just open enough that they could write their way into him remaining faithful and turning into a happy, loving husband, but I don't think they will.
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Old 06-14-2012, 08:09 PM   #113
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Don is SO incredibly different with Megan than with Betty. They talk about issues (even if it's screaming) and come to resolutions. With Betty it was Don's way, period.

I'm not sure how you can watch the show from the start and not say Don hasn't grown.
He definitely WAS different. When we saw him at the beginning of the season and he'd already told Megan about Dick Whitman and they seemed to have such an open, honest relationship, we thought it signified significant growth on the part of Don. But as the season progressed, we saw that façade slowly fall apart. Don got pissy when Megan hosted a birthday party and basically did a burlesque show for all his colleagues. Megan showed her jealousy when a woman hit on Don in the elevator. Don grew frustrated with Megan when she didn't like orange sherbet. Megan quit the firm to follow her dreams. Don had a fever-induced fantasy dream of cheating and then strangling the woman. Megan threw a plate of food against the wall. Don chased Megan around the apartment like a lunatic. Megan manipulated Don into getting her an acting job through nepotism.

I'll bet that if we could go back in time 12-15 years to the first year of Don's marriage to Betty, we'd see that he was much different back then as well, but as time wore on and the newness of the relationship wore off and the reality of married life set in, Don's real character came out and he turned into a Dick (pun intended).
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Old 06-14-2012, 08:26 PM   #114
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More on symbolism - each time Don has let Megan go a little bit more we've had ominous symbolism.

Megan left SCDP and Don tried to go after her only to be greeted by an elevator shaft.

Megan starred in the commercial Don got her and he walked away from her bright and glittery lights into the darkness.

These are not positive and happy signs. Don was only happy when Megan was by his side. The more she goes out on her own, the greater the divide between them and the more Don is lured into the darkness.
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Old 06-14-2012, 08:36 PM   #115
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+1 to Zevida and Devdog. I think the point of that last scene was to show that after all Don's been through this season, at his core he hasn't changed. He's still the same ol' dog.
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Old 06-14-2012, 11:42 PM   #116
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I disagree. I put my money on Don staying faithful. Who wants to make it interesting?
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Old 06-15-2012, 01:42 AM   #117
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I disagree. I put my money on Don staying faithful. Who wants to make it interesting?
The show won't be very interesting if Don turns into Ward Cleaver.
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Old 06-15-2012, 02:01 AM   #118
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The show won't be very interesting if Don turns into Ward Cleaver.
There's a BIG difference between remaining faithful and turning into Ward Cleaver...
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Old 06-15-2012, 08:29 AM   #119
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The show won't be very interesting if Don turns into Ward Cleaver.
I absolutely agree, but it also wouldn't be very interersting if he's the exact same as he was in episode 1. I think his new struggle is going to be fighting the temptations of his old life while trying to figure out his current one.

Now that the honeymoon period is over, is he going to cut and run or work on staying with his wife? We've seen Don the cad, sleeping around on Betty. We've seen single Don where he's free to live it up and he makes some dark, bad decisions. We've seen content and faithful Don with Megan. I don't think we're going back to square one with him. I think he's lost (or is losing) that contentment and we are going to see the impact of that coupled with his love for Megan and wanting to try and be a better man.

THAT would be some interesting, not yet seen, storytelling with Don Draper versus "hey, I recognize this guy from season 1".
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Old 06-15-2012, 09:08 AM   #120
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I absolutely agree, but it also wouldn't be very interersting if he's the exact same as he was in episode 1. I think his new struggle is going to be fighting the temptations of his old life while trying to figure out his current one.

Now that the honeymoon period is over, is he going to cut and run or work on staying with his wife? We've seen Don the cad, sleeping around on Betty. We've seen single Don where he's free to live it up and he makes some dark, bad decisions. We've seen content and faithful Don with Megan. I don't think we're going back to square one with him. I think he's lost (or is losing) that contentment and we are going to see the impact of that coupled with his love for Megan and wanting to try and be a better man.

THAT would be some interesting, not yet seen, storytelling with Don Draper versus "hey, I recognize this guy from season 1".


I am also going to think that he will be faithful, but struggling inside and wanting to do what is right for their marriage. All marriages have bumps. Don is never going to be Ward Cleaver and just being faithful doesn't mean there won't be temptations or fights. I am also hoping that now that Megan is made a commercial, she will ease up a bit and they can communicate with each other better.

But, really who knows? Maybe we come back to find Megan filming in California on a new tv show and Don in the apartment by himself.
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