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Old 06-12-2012, 09:05 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by kaszeta View Post
I think Howard was sending her because of her affairs: The reason he started a fight with Pete at the end of the episode is that he realized Pete was the person she was having the affair with.
But her depression was caused by his affairs and his neglect of her. Howard wasn't sending her for the shock treatments, she chose them. She welcomed them because she would get to such a dark place and they were "a door she could walk through".
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Old 06-12-2012, 09:40 AM   #62
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Yes. To me, the most logical interpretation of that closing scene is that the old Don is back. Why show that stylized shot of him walking away from Megan and into the bar with those shameless hussies unless Don is going to cheat (at a minimum) and possibly end the marriage? If the point was supposed to be that Don was going to say No because he loves being married to Meagan so much, then why not just have him have him say "no" or have him stay there and watch her do the commercial?

Exactly. Bert Cooper had described Don as being on "love leave". Like Roger said about his LSD inspired enlightenment, the love leave "wore off" and he needed to do it again. The real Don is back. Even if he does turn down this one girl in the bar, he won't turn down the next one. I don't see any way the final scene could mean anything other than Don returns to cheating. Weiner felt his audience was smart enough to not need it spelled out.
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Old 06-12-2012, 10:12 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by tiams

But her depression was caused by his affairs and his neglect of her. Howard wasn't sending her for the shock treatments, she chose them. She welcomed them because she would get to such a dark place and they were "a door she could walk through".
I agree. I think her depression was real and her belief that the shock treatments helped was real. I also think her husband was a big contributor to her mental state and that he didn't mind the byproducts of the shock treatment- getting her short-term memory wiped and her spending time in the mental hospital.
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Old 06-12-2012, 10:57 AM   #64
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Did shock treatments really cause memory loss like that?
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Old 06-12-2012, 11:10 AM   #65
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All of this talk of Joan doing sex to help further the companies position mirrors the news:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...p_ref=business
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Old 06-12-2012, 11:13 AM   #66
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Quote:
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Did shock treatments really cause memory loss like that?
Yes, according to Kitty Dukakis' memoirs
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Old 06-12-2012, 11:51 AM   #67
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Shock treatments are a horrific, borderline barbaric form of treatment that are steeped in controversy about their efficacy. These days, it is used a lot less frequently.
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Old 06-12-2012, 01:51 PM   #68
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Good article (so far, just read the first paragraph)

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/t..._goodbye_.html

Regarding the women at the bar
Quote:
But her choice of words has great resonance for the season that’s just ended. Are you alone? How many of our heroes can answer that in the negative?
And the rest of the characters.

So it could be just that, or in conjuncture with Don cheating maybe.
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Old 06-12-2012, 02:51 PM   #69
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I thought she was in remarkably good shape for just having a 1960's style shock treatment.
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Old 06-12-2012, 02:56 PM   #70
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Shock treatments are a horrific, borderline barbaric form of treatment that are steeped in controversy about their efficacy. These days, it is used a lot less frequently.
Except on TV. The name of another show is below. Can't name it here or it would be a spoiler.

Spoiler:
Homeland

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Old 06-12-2012, 03:23 PM   #71
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Good article (so far, just read the first paragraph)

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/t..._goodbye_.html
After reading that article it lead me to a couple others there about Mad Men. One - and I didn't save the link - mentioned something interesting.

Megan blindsided her friend to get the audition. Her friend asked her to ask Don, but instead she asked him. Not the nice Megan we all have come to know.
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Old 06-12-2012, 04:00 PM   #72
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Good article (so far, just read the first paragraph)

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/t..._goodbye_.html

Regarding the women at the bar
And the rest of the characters.

So it could be just that, or in conjuncture with Don cheating maybe.
One of the comments to that article made a very interesting point IMO regarding the closing song.

Quote:
"You Only Live Twice." Does that mean that our boy Don has already gotten his allotment of lives and he won't reinvent himself again? Two identities, two marriages. He'll stay with Megan and make a go of this life?
Technically 3 marriages, counting Anna.
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Old 06-12-2012, 04:27 PM   #73
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After reading that article it lead me to a couple others there about Mad Men. One - and I didn't save the link - mentioned something interesting.

Megan blindsided her friend to get the audition. Her friend asked her to ask Don, but instead she asked him. Not the nice Megan we all have come to know.
Yes, Megan very clearly stabbed her friend in the back. No question. It will be interesting to see if anything comes of that, or if it's just a way to show us that a little bit of Don's ruthlessness is rubbing off on Megan. And if she'll betray her friend to get ahead in her career, it probably won't be long before she'll betray Don to get ahead in her career as well.
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Old 06-12-2012, 04:40 PM   #74
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One of the comments to that article made a very interesting point IMO regarding the closing song.

Technically 3 marriages, counting Anna.
I read a brief article with the Mad Men creator that said:

Spoiler:
Something along the same lines - like "viewers should assume that Don will be with Megan the rest of his life. That's what Don assumes." That made me think that they will not be broken up next season. I think this was a teaser-before-the-finale article. Can't remember where I read about it.

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Old 06-12-2012, 06:31 PM   #75
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Man what Megan's mom said, to Don I think (to paraphrase), about being with someone who wants to be an artist but discovers their not an artist, but you're left with someone with the personality of an artist really struck home for me.

My wife is the same exact way. It seems that when you are with someone like that you are always riding this line of wanting to see the person be happy in what they are doing. But on the other hand you need to be realistic and want to see them stop torturing themselves trying to attain this difficult goal which they have had since childhood that all of their happiness is dependent upon.

I could totally see how that would get Don thinking about their future together and how both of them actually compromised with their core values for her to be ruthless in getting the part for a commercial (which she previously didn't want to do), and for Don to be OK with it (or even pull strings to get it for her).

From a technical standpoint, do you think they actually used film for that part where Don was looking at her audition, or was that just some good processing software to make the frame-rate and picture look like film? Either way, I thought that was well done.

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Old 06-12-2012, 07:16 PM   #76
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Was Megan's mom basically saying that she didn't think Megan was a good enough actress to actually get work? And that she'd just toil away as an unfulfilled struggling actress for the rest of her life? Seems that when Don was watching the screen test, she appeared to have a very likable quality and that's partly what convinced Don to get the job for Megan.

I wonder if Don is now going to do what he can to help Megan succeed just to spite Megan's bitch of a mom.
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Old 06-12-2012, 07:35 PM   #77
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Was Megan's mom basically saying that she didn't think Megan was a good enough actress to actually get work? And that she'd just toil away as an unfulfilled struggling actress for the rest of her life? Seems that when Don was watching the screen test, she appeared to have a very likable quality and that's partly what convinced Don to get the job for Megan.

I wonder if Don is now going to do what he can to help Megan succeed just to spite Megan's bitch of a mom.
Megan's mom might have been saying that she wasn't good, but either way I think Don realized some truth in her statement and saw that as his and her future unless he did something about it.
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Old 06-12-2012, 11:13 PM   #78
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Was Megan's mom basically saying that she didn't think Megan was a good enough actress to actually get work? And that she'd just toil away as an unfulfilled struggling actress for the rest of her life? Seems that when Don was watching the screen test, she appeared to have a very likable quality and that's partly what convinced Don to get the job for Megan.
Yes, Megan's mom said she has the artist's temperament without the talent.

The screen test was a lovely girl standing around. There was no talking or acting. As far as we know, she's just a pretty face.
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Old 06-13-2012, 07:36 AM   #79
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The screen test was a lovely girl standing around. There was no talking or acting. As far as we know, she's just a pretty face.
Well, her part in the commercial is the Beauty.

Refresh my memory, was Megan's mom a dancer or a musician?
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Old 06-13-2012, 08:38 AM   #80
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[My apologies if any of this is redundant. I've been out of town, but still wanted to throw my two cents in.]

Adam showing up was a subconscious reminder to Don about how he failed to help someone in need. Megan's career situation paralleled Adam's down-and-out situation and reignited the guilt Don felt over not helping Adam and it began to wear on his conscience (physically, metaphorically manifested by the toothache). After viewing Megan's reel, Don realized that this time around he needed to do the right thing - help Megan. BUT, as Peggy said in the movie theater, Don was afraid of Megan succeeding because then he'd be left alone, which, at least temporarily, is exactly what happens to Don at the end of the episode. He's left alone at the bar. Now that Megan is working, how will Don spend his time? He could fall back into his old ways, or has Don matured? Weiner is deliberately ambiguous on this and so the question cannot be said to be answered. It's a Schrodinger's Ad Man situation. We have to wait until the box is opened next season.


ETA: Anyone else reminded of the Sopranos episode where Tony finally agrees to use his influence and helps Carmella get the building permit for her spec house? This was practically a dead-ringer for that situation.

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Old 06-13-2012, 11:29 AM   #81
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Old 06-13-2012, 12:52 PM   #82
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What kind of company is it where one partner can unilaterally give someone $50,000.
He can't. Much like he couldn't end the discussion about Joan by leaving the room.

But he thought he could.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dianebrat
I'd say we're ALL correct until Matthew Weiner writes and films the next scene.
Schrodinger's television!
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Old 06-13-2012, 01:37 PM   #83
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Interesting as usual. I never noticed the Beth/Pete resemblance. Totally fits Pete's view of himself.
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Old 06-13-2012, 02:35 PM   #84
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She seemed to know that the insurance policy paid off way more than $50,000 (I think it was $175,000) and the company was keeping the rest (as they had the legal if not moral right to do).
The whole purpose of key-employee insurance is to indemnify the company for the loss of the services of the key employee. Sometime a portion of the proceeds is used to repurchase the shares of the deceased employee.
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Old 06-13-2012, 03:46 PM   #85
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....The very fact that he went to the bar alone is evidence of his intentions.
Huh? He had no other choice...Megan was working.
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Old 06-13-2012, 03:52 PM   #86
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"Not that they’re literally his glasses. That would be morbid and weird."

And they're broken!
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Old 06-13-2012, 04:10 PM   #87
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Huh? He had no other choice...Megan was working.
Of course he had a choice. He could have gone home, or he could have stayed and watched Megan or he could have gone to the office. But he chose to go to a bar where he knew he could get lucky.
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Old 06-13-2012, 04:13 PM   #88
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Of course he had a choice. He could have gone home, or he could have stayed and watched Megan or he could have gone to the office. But he chose to go to a bar where he knew he could get lucky.
He meant that Don had no other choice than to go somewhere "alone", i.e., without Megan, if he did not want to stay and watch the commercial shoot.
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Old 06-13-2012, 06:23 PM   #89
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Old 06-13-2012, 07:02 PM   #90
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Of course he had a choice. He could have gone home, or he could have stayed and watched Megan or he could have gone to the office. But he chose to go to a bar where he knew he could get lucky.
That's not what I'm talking about. I'm saying there was no choice between going to the bar with or without Megan. She was working. I was responding to a post that said "The very fact that he went to the bar alone is evidence of his intentions."

My response was clear....except to you. It was going to the bar alone or not alone. No choice, since Megan was unavailable.

Sure he could have done something else other than go to the bar; that's not what I was referring to...
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